Deseret News | Stop crying about BYU's 'advantage'

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Stop crying about BYU's 'advantage'

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Provo | 3:42 p.m. June 14, 2009

Does anyone really thing a top ranked non-LDS kid would come to PROVO to go to school? Give me a break. Of course Heaps is going to BYU because he is LDS. It is the ONLY reason to go there.

91 National Champs | 3:52 p.m. June 14, 2009

Brad Rock? Seriously? You have the guts to call out Coach Baird? Do you realize that Baird was the recruiting coordinator for Don James and produced one of the most dominant college football teams in college football history? I will take Baird's opinion over yours any day. Baird has a first hand experience of the advantages that BYU provides. You write this article on hearsay.

Ernest T. Bass | 3:57 p.m. June 14, 2009

Then does brocno tell recruits they will be blessed for going to byu?
Why are kids told they will be blessed for going on missions?
Doesn't it make sense then that RMs will be better football players?

Comments continue below

Re:TheHailstorm | 3:57 p.m. June 14, 2009

Since when is it illegal for family members to write a missionary. If someone's parents write their own son and tell him to go to BYU, or if the son writes his parents and asks them to contact the BYU coaches and see if they have a scholarship available, then there is no problem with that.

And yes it was reported that Doman was going to be in Hawaii after Teo commited to visit Jray, and that he was going to make a visit to the Teo's house when Manti returned from a visit to one of the 400 universities that offered him, but it was later reported that Doman's visit was cut short.

Great Logic | 4:03 p.m. June 14, 2009

Hey Palo Alto Dawg, Which would I choose? Good question, easy answer. A shot at the NC by playing the #1 team in the nation anytime, anywhere. Stupid question.

Hailstorm, You still don't back up your facts. I could come up with a lot of rumors too. You need to go back and check out the timeline again because it doesn't match what you say in regards to Doman. By the way, what is peudo?

bender rodriguez.... | 4:10 p.m. June 14, 2009

last year byu and mwc were alegedly 6-2 against the recently watered down salted wac-10. nobody in the mwc cares about vegas bowl competition. we on to bigger fish not found around the pacific.

Which would BYU choose? | 4:10 p.m. June 14, 2009

Looks like they chose the National Championship; as the trophy and banner that say 1984 National Champions suggest. UW doesn't posses ones that say 1984... I like how the Utes and Cougars are actually being intelligent this time, and it's the two teams who were battling for worst team in the nation last year doing the whining. Ha ha! If you were Jake Heaps or Riley Nelson where would you go? The team that fired you're dad and would have gone 0-12 with UW's schedule? The team that did go 0-12? Or a team that actually has a quality program right now? Man, tough choice...

New Washington fan | 4:17 p.m. June 14, 2009

Laughable, sounds like another, Quest for Perfection year.

Holier than thou complex got the better of Bronco.

Good luck BYU, see ya on the turf!

re: TheHailstorn. | 4:20 p.m. June 14, 2009

please see sj bobkins. challenge us to a fight, we beat you up, you cry foul and say we suckerpunched. playground wining. your choice in words aint helpin your pseudo-cerebral cause either

baird is god | 4:30 p.m. June 14, 2009

who cares what one washington coach says. everyone in college football knows having older palyers means nothing. maturity dont run a 4.4 40. they also concur folks that byu loses top lds recruits on a consistent basis, because its not an opinion its stats. bcs coaches are not saintly victims to byu. lol. WHAT ADVANTAGE you people talking about?

Re: TheHailstorm | 4:33 p.m. June 14, 2009

This is straight out of SLTrib blog:
There have been reports that Doman was staying in Hawaii until Sunday night so he could visit with linebacker Manti Te'o one last time when Te'o returned from his visit this weekend to USC.

But several readers have mentioned they saw Doman on BYU's campus Thursday night, and Edmunds'account substantiates those claims.

RE: truth is | 4:37 p.m. June 14, 2009

Poor little yewts and their missed recruiting opportunities!

dawgman | 4:40 p.m. June 14, 2009

Heaps picked BYU because he was LDS, nothing more nothing less.

Do you honestly think a recruit of his caliber would have given you a sniff otherwise??

People including Baird are merely pointing out that if Heaps really wanted a NC, than BYU wouldnt have been anywhere on his radar (nor would UW for that matter)This was about his faith, period.

BTW, as others have pointed out, I thank GOD that he picked you guys. We got a better QB in Montana as it turns out, so thank you!

RE: Which would BYU... | 4:48 p.m. June 14, 2009

No, UW has '91 and '60 National Championships. What was your point? Playing in the MWC and claiming national championship asperations is laughable, as we saw with Utah. Heaps made a choice to play for a team with a better record in a lesser conference. It's a wash. Religion probably played a small, but influential role. UW fans aren't whining; Picking up the rant of a former coach off a blog and applying it to all UW fans is a logic fail. ESPN and Scout both say Montana is a better fit for UW. Husky fans are very excited about our recruiting. I, like most UW fans, believe Heaps made a mistake but wish him the very best. This columnist's piece is absurd. Seizing upon a blog post to right an immature diatribe with no journalistic value is a pathetic way to attempt to gloat and dredge up previous beefs. This column has zero merit.

William | 4:53 p.m. June 14, 2009

It was interesting to read the posts of UW fans in their local newspaper after Heaps committed to BYU. After reading their vile comments about Heaps, I KNOW he is grateful he chose to play his college ball in Provo.

As for the Hailstorm, he is one bitter anti-BYU, anti-LDS dude. Pretty pitiful if you ask me.

re: dawgman | 5:00 p.m. June 14, 2009

and others - disingenuous arguments. "We got a better QB in Montana as it turns out"??? As it turns out he's the one you got, that's what makes him better???

Note to self, if it was JUST about his faith, he could have chosen Ricks, er, BYU Idaho. How many kinds of bitter come up with stupid dead-end conclusions? It's just about faith, but he doesn't know if he is going to serve a mission or not? It may not be as much about faith as you think.

Is it tough to admit that BYU is the best mix for Heaps' combined ambitions? And the other two as well?

He THINKS he can help push this team up to the top level of competition. He THINKS he can be a major contributor to that, and maybe an immediate contributor. His ambition is a national championship, you think he just thought that up all on his own? You don't think maybe he sees this time and place as his opportunity to be the next Steve Young or Ty Detmer? Or Robbie Boscoe...?

Ridiculous | 5:32 p.m. June 14, 2009

BYU has to sell these top propects on why they should come to BYU and have 0% chance of playing for a Nat'l championship... get a life

orson a. round | 5:50 p.m. June 14, 2009

Byu in the 1950.s was a football joke - BUT people attended BYU and also attended many football games. BYU is a great school for LDS kids - great teachers, some great facilities, a great honour code that helps young kids live good honest lives. I love the Y and what it helped me to become. I also like the U as many of us do - good rivilary yes, but most are brothers and sisters in the Church and we can poke fun at eachother, BUt its the jerks on both sides that sau the un-kind stupid things. Go BYU in 2010 and go for second spot Utah.

Rock Logic > Baird Logic | 6:03 p.m. June 14, 2009

In reality there is some truth in both arguments-although Coach Baird's "diatribe" is a rehash of old fallacies (Bill Tubbs/Rick Reilly/Barry Switzer) perpetrated whenever BYU is winning. Interestingly, you never ever hear any complaining when BYU teams (FB or BB) or in a down cycle-but ONLY when they are winning.

Bottom line: Missions may be some advantage for the big guys (lineman/linebackers/tight ends), but absolutely no advantage whatsoever for any skill positions-especially quarterbacks. Has any QB at any university ever truly excelled after returning from a mission? With the possible exception of Brandon Doman (and it only took three years after his mission) and a handful of others-none has been more than adequate. No all-Americans-a few minor bowl winners (with the exception of the one QB at Wisconsin-who took the Badgers to a Rose Bowl title)

Hopefully Jason Heaps or Riley Nelson will prove us all wrong.

In the meantime-Missions are a non-sequitur..unless the Cougars are winning and opposing coaches need an excuse for their fan base.

Coach Baird is full of sour grapes.

Baird is just dumb | 6:37 p.m. June 14, 2009

He thinks he's doing UW a favor, but he's not. Sarkisian went to BYU and wasn't and isn't a Mormon, as far as I know. And Sarkisian got plenty of exposure in a big bowl game as his BYU team beat Kansas State in the Cotton Bowl. Huskies fans and coaches should learn a little more about their new head coach before spouting off about BYU.

Howard S. | 6:42 p.m. June 14, 2009

BYU can't help it that players are blessed it they make the righteous choice by going to go to BYU.

Only 71 so far | 7:45 p.m. June 14, 2009

Hey Rock you're not as good at stirring things up as Dick Harmon is. He can easily get over 200 comments on many of his articles. But you keep working on it and learning from the master.

OK will complain too | 8:32 p.m. June 14, 2009

If you think Baird's a sore loser (and he is), wait until this fall. If BYU gets lucky and beats Oklahoma, the whining will reach a level never heard before. It will be like listening to Barry Switzer all over again.

Where are the facts? | 8:55 p.m. June 14, 2009

I'd like to see some research on the 40 times of players before and after their missions. It would be telling and could prove if it's an advantage or not.

Has anyone ever seen any piece of research documenting this? If so, please include it in your next article.

MurrayUte | 9:16 p.m. June 14, 2009

Yawn...who cares

For BYU Haters Everywhere | 11:15 p.m. June 14, 2009

Yeah, going on a mission. Some advantage....

Yeah, it's such a huge advantage the NFL actually thinks it's a GREAT thing when a player shows up on their doorstep who's 2-3 years older than their peers.

Oh, wait a minute, they don't....

Don Stone aka Dawgishly | 1:00 a.m. June 15, 2009

Husky fan here. In case you folks haven't heard, we're completely over Heaps and wish him nothing but the best with notable exception of a few remaining dates w/ the Dawgs. A commitment from Joe Montana's kid kind of eases the sting.

I generally agree w/ the tone of this article. Each program has to use every advantage at its disposal to land it's top recruits.

I also think that BYU faces an enormous stigma with non-LDS recruits due to the perceived cultish nature of the CoLDS amongst the broader population. Therefore, I always admire the success that BYU has.

But come on! Baird was momentarily disappointed at losing out on a likely great player. Doesn't not addressing his thin agrument do more justice to your program than trying to rationalize your decided advantage w/ LDS recruits?

jeremy | 2:10 a.m. June 15, 2009

I love BYUs advantage,against tcy,utahnand arizona

Advantage or not.... | 6:55 a.m. June 15, 2009

BYU still has not won big games in recent years.

TrueRed | 7:36 a.m. June 15, 2009

Re:Bj Booooobkins.....who cares about all that?

ADVANTAGE?! Last year they had a Heisman choice (according to the Zooobies?) and flooped at season end VS. mediocre Arizona........go ahead an get all the LDS wonders Uuuuu want........'ya still need to win tdhe ones that count!

Dawg fan | 8:05 a.m. June 15, 2009

Actually, most Husky fans stopped caring the day Nick Montana committed....now that we have a real coach and not a politcally correct nightmare that we couldn't unload UW football is on the way back to relevancy.

BYU has always been among UW's most disliked teams, and that doesn't seem to be changing. From claiming what should have been UW's title in 1984, to the debacle last year.....BYU is about as well liked in Seattle as John Stockton.

Who cares? | 8:10 a.m. June 15, 2009

I don't think I would classify it as an big advantage. BYU definetly has a foot in the door advantage when it comes to LDS athletes, but for the most part that is the end. Heaps was a little different, being that his parents went to BYU. Most of these LDS kids have at least followed the Cougars on some level, and will probably listen to BYU due to the LDS connection, but as we have seen that doesn't guarantee anything.

Don't look at the Heaps situation for the reality of the "advantage." With his family history he should have been in the bag for the Cougars, and he was as it turned out.

Last year when BYU lost many LDS kids to Utah and out-of-state schools, there was no talk of an advantage.

The LDS connection is a conversation starter, not a deal breaker.

re: dawg fan | 8:29 a.m. June 15, 2009

AW, the '84 championship. Neither Washington or Oklahoma would play the Cougars that year, so they should quit whining.

Of course the Cougars and Huskies did play the next year and the Cougars stomped the Huskies...

meh | 9:24 a.m. June 15, 2009

Hailstorm-

Teo committed to Notre Dame on national signing day.
Are you saying that BYU had coaches sitting on his front door for a full week after he had signed his letter of intent?

Also, your grammar is deplorable. I'm not a grammar nazi, but try not to come off as such a simpleton when you are insulting others. It certainly doesn't help your cause.

Bender Rodriguez | 9:28 a.m. June 15, 2009

Hey 4:10 6/14 poster.... Get back to me when you can come up w/ a coherent, logical argument.

I'm still having a team of psychologists and linguists decipher what the deuce you are talking about?

Collegefootball Fan | 9:36 a.m. June 15, 2009

Where were these articles and comments about BYU's advantage in 02,03,04 and 05? Did we not have the same return missionaries and older players? Also the church leaders don't push players to go to BYU. Heck our prophet is a Ute and so are the majority of General Authorities. I was sitting in Scott Mitchell's home our senior year in high school when he received a letter from Marvin J. Ashton that told him the church is true no matter where he goes and to make the decision that it best from him. At the time Scott had narrowed his choices to Utah and Stanford. Anyone who brings up the missionary program as an advantage is a joker and just doesn't understand. By the way I haven't lived in Utah for close to 20 years and since I left I have not had a bishop that was a BYU alum.

RM = advantage? | 10:01 a.m. June 15, 2009

Well I was looked at by BYU out of high school. When I returned from South American I was very sick and lost over 25 pounds. When I saw the coaches after my mission they asked me where half my body went. It look me over 3 years to get healthy and back in real good shape. To say to leave a sport for 2 years completely and not have an intense college level training program or any training at all for 2 years is an advantage is just laugable. By the way I have never had a church leader that was a BYU alum or fan.

jefe 57 | 10:26 a.m. June 15, 2009

"The LDS Church is one of the fastest-growing churches in the country, and they are organized all the way down to the ward level. It is very difficult to beat them on a Mormon kid, because they pull out all stops to keep their young in the fold." Exactly, Baird. Joseph Smith organized the church in 1830 with the sole purpose of winning over athletes for BYU football recruiting. Talk about sour grapes. Good article Rock. Thanks for being objective.

BYU speed | 10:42 a.m. June 15, 2009

I'm getting tired of the speed argument against BYU. I'll acknowledge the fact that BYU doesn't have a roster full of 4.2 and 4.3 guys like Florida but BYU really is faster than most people give them credit for. BYU has a number of 4.5 guys and even a few 4.4 guys and possibly 1 or two 4.3 guys. I'll try to break it down for you.

This coming season the fastest guys on the team will be the WR's. We've got Jacobsen, Chambers, and Covey all in the lineup. They all combine in the 4.4 range. Dennis Pitta isn't the fastest TE in the league but his size/speed combination couldn't be more perfect. Harvey Unga doesn't have breakaway speed but can move quick enough and is big enough to make him a good running back. Max Hall isn't a speedster but he's no slower than the average QB.

The lineman could be faster on offense and defense. But Jordan Pendleton will bring good speed to the linebackers. The worst is of course the secondary, but the new JC guys are fast.

re-TheHailstorm | 11:11 a.m. June 15, 2009

I'm not the one who commented before but I will now. You sound very bitter. Calling Bronco a stupid name does little to help your credibility. How can you accuse BYU of stretching rules with missionaries by suggesting relatives are doing it? That is insane.

The earlier commentor wasn't saying Bronco didn't try hard to recruit Manti. He was saying that after the decision was made, they left him alone. Get your facts straight.

re: TheHailstorm | 3:24 p.m. | 11:27 a.m. June 15, 2009

I believe the responder to your post was not stating that Bronco never recruited the kid before he made his decision. He was clearly stating that they did not go stalker on him after he made his decision like you claim.

If you followed the recruiting weekend news you'd know that Teo was one of several recruits and a current player that were sat down and counseled about rumors of their attendance at a party that would violate BYU's honor code and were told that it is unacceptable. And perhaps even (I'm interjecting my own opinion here) how they would be held out of practice or suspended for a period (no matter how short/long) of time if they chose BYU.

When Teo then chose not to come Bronco was likely relieved that they didn't have to start the process of building a team around him only to have him not be eligible some time down the road if he again found himself on the wrong side of an honor code violation.

Anonymous | 11:48 a.m. June 15, 2009

It always amazes me that they keep harping on the Mission "advantage" Many other schools use a practice called Grey shirting, when the recruit does not enroll full time in school allowing them to lift and get stronger, all the while not starting their official eligibility clock. Officially they are not part of the team, they cannot practice with them, but are still affiliated with the team and program. They then join the team and red shirt. They get another year of prep out of them. The effectively circumvent the rules that way.

re: Speed | 12:18 p.m. June 15, 2009

"I'm getting tired of the speed argument against BYU."

Sorry, I guess other college football viewers should not watch BYU games with their own two eyes. Because when they do they have seen the lack of athleticism and speed, especially on defense, that haunted BYU last year. Remember those beatdowns from Utah & TCU? And a mediocre Pac-10 team in Vegas? And guys from CSU & UNLV running all over your secondary?

It's nice that you think this will be turned around this year, but for you to be upset with viewers watching BYU, seeing their lack of speed, and making judgements that your team lacks speed, is just not accurate. It's a fact.

restating the obvious | 12:22 p.m. June 15, 2009

I love it. Yes, BYU has an unfair advantage. Baird is right. The caliber of person that chooses to serve a mission can't be beat. If we are talking about maturity, but if we are talking football athletes, missionaries are hardly the best drawing grounds for that.

He's also wrong about the rules favoring BYU. If players at Washington want to go on a 2 year hiatus to serve the Lord and mature in the process, who's stopping them? Shoot, Baird should send the whole Washington football team on a 2 year mission if he really believes himself; see how good his team is when they all come back after that experiment. What a joke!

Any time people lose to BYU (recruiting battle, on the field, or otherwise) having returned missionaries is billed as an advantage, but reality is that going on a mission is more of a physical sacrifice than any football maturity that could possibly be gained on a mission.

DawgAlum2000 | 12:34 p.m. June 15, 2009

Does BYU have advantage in recruiting Mormon kids? Of course. Just as Notre Dame has an advantage in recruiting Catholic kids. Every school uses their advantages. I have no problem with BYU doing it.

As far as the age and the "mission" argument I truly believe it is about a wash. Yes their bodies are 2 years older and more developed but at the same time they have been away from football for 2 years. So in the end it probably ends up at about the same.

I am glad Heaps decided to go to BYU. We wouldn't want him at UW if he didn't want to be here. And the fact is we got a quarterback who will probably be a better fit for our system and will help us to recruit in the state of California.

The bitter taste that Heaps left was he wants to pretend to be this high and mighty humble kid. The fact is he enjoys the spotlight. He hired a PR firm and traveled to Provo for a press conference. At age 17!!!!! What other recruits have done that? You guys can have him. See you in Provo in 2010.

The real DIS-advantage... | 1:04 p.m. June 15, 2009

Here's the real problem that BYU has with recruiting talented athletes to go to their school. BYU has what they call an "HONOR CODE". This is their biggest DISADVANTAGE when trying to get young men to play for them. BYU has consistently been voted "Most Sober University" among the nations colleges. Any athlete who had either no morals or questionable ones isn't going to want to go to a school where they can't "party" after their games and on the weekends. The fact that BYU has done as well as it has over the years with the honor code in place is a true testament to what a quality program they are. BYU has done remarkably well with this honor code in place and the amount of talented athletes they have been able to recruit because of it. Props to the Cougars for being a top college football team year in and year out..... (consistency is what Utah is still lacking.) Go BYU and go MWC!!!

Advantage? | 1:13 p.m. June 15, 2009

What advantage?

UofW2004 | 1:23 p.m. June 15, 2009

I really want to just say that we aren't actually bitter about Heaps. What I think is funny though is how so many of you say that BYU has the better program. Yes UW went winless last year but they play in a superior conference and had one of the toughest schedules in the country.There are no Northern Iowas on our schedule. We dont schedule pansies like other teams out there. Only BCS teams, MAC, Boise State and occasionaly Hawaii. This year we have Idaho, but theats a regional thing like you guys playing Wyoming. WE play real teams not D-II teams. We never have and never will OU and FSU are both going to crush BYU. To say you are a better program when you play some of the worst teams in the country is ridiculous. The last coach was a joke and washedup. Sarkisian was at USC before so the idea that Heaps chose the school that trained him is dumb. Heaps would have gone to USC before BYU. You guys will never play for the NC because your players are old and gray. UW will be back and USC knows it.

Matt Connelly | 1:47 p.m. June 15, 2009

Great points Brad, as always.

Moab | 1:57 p.m. June 15, 2009

Who is saying they have an unfair advantage?
I haven't heard anyone say that BYU as an advantage in recruiting or missions. I heard ALL year last year that BYU has a disadvantage because they typically are slow because they are too white?
Since BYU is now the third ranked MWC team in the BCS era I am not sure what facts you can point to an advantage. Due to their program looking like it is losing strength, it looks like they are at a disadvantage to me.

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