Deseret News | Reader comments: Stop crying about BYU's 'advantage'

Reader comments
Stop crying about BYU's 'advantage'

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Ratman | 11:59 p.m. June 13, 2009

If 'Cougar Club' Harmon wasn't biased enough, now we have to put up with Rock's zoobie rant in this paper.....

Matthew | 12:15 a.m. June 14, 2009

Ratman,
To repeat: Oh, Waaaah!
Dick Baird ranted, Brad Rock responded.
I'm U of U class of '81 and bleed red.
Missions, Honor Code, racial/ethnic demographics, and location all work against BYU in national recruiting. To claim otherwise is just plain silly. Brad Rock is just pointing out this silliness.

Oh Please | 12:31 a.m. June 14, 2009

If you don't like it don't read it. Simple as that.

Comments continue below

Paul Carter | 1:11 a.m. June 14, 2009

Great article as a ute fan i agree we deal with same problem more than people relize

Sj Bobkins | 1:56 a.m. June 14, 2009

It's difficult to deal with facts when your head is filled with your bias's, I'll try to let a little light in. First, this year will be the very FIRST year in memory that BYU will likely sign the majority of the top LDS kids. Last year the top three got away including all world Manti T'eo, QB's Nune and Hill to Stanford from Idaho Falls and LA respectively. You can add in Stanley Havaii and a couple of other top LDS kids who went to SoCal. In the PAC-10, one school, ONE SCHOOL allows kids to plan on missions, that's Stanford. Havali was told by Pete Carroll that he would be a better missionary by not going and playing, as if he is qualified to say. John Beck and Max Hall didn't play for ASU, both were told that if they did go, they wouldn't have any guarentee of a place when they returned. If 90 of PAC coaches say a mission hurts a kid, then where is your advantage? This is the same 'ole BYU whine, if they beat your team they're cheatin'

OldCosmo | 3:09 a.m. June 14, 2009

If two years of service, no work outs, no film, no coaching, and a focus on the needs of others makes a better football player I am sure all the BCS schools would be doing it. But, surprise, they are not.

If UW or USC or any of the others want to recruit LDS kids then they can go out and determine who is the kid's Bishop and give him a call, it isn't that hard. How many Bishop's do you think can sway a kid to turn away from a BCS school and take a second look at BYU. How many Bishops even care about BYU? Everyone assumes BYU=LDS Church and LDS Church=BYU. I know a lot of UofU grads who are Bishops and they wouldn't life an eyelid to help BYU recruit.

The article is spot on.

south bend cougar | 4:19 a.m. June 14, 2009

I can't believe Brad failed to mention 'The Mountain.' You know, the TV deal that let's everyone watch MWC teams worldwide. Here in South Bend recruits are never told about the NBC TV deal that guarantees that mom & dad plus all the homies will get to watch every game.

Bob in line | 5:05 a.m. June 14, 2009

BYU article but when you consider Utah has as many returned missionaries as BYU and they finished 2nd in the nation...the attack on BYU just shows the bias.

If having return missionaries is such an advantage then obviously Utah is more guilty of it, having a better program. BYU just gets more attention on the matter. Go figure.

How many return missionaries have gone on to be All Americans? Not Academic All Americans, just All Americans? If it were such an advantage that would be the case. I think Brandon Doman was the first return missionary to go onto being a very succesful quarterback, after three decades of attempts.

What ever. Spilled milk and sour grapes out of Washington.

BYU Baker blue | 5:14 a.m. June 14, 2009

Why all the fuss??? Is BYU a threat to the Pac 10 or BCS Boys club? Last I looked BYU is in a lower tiered conference that makes it almost impossible to play for a national championship. I LOVE BYU (and even Utah) teams because they have so many negatives against them in recruiting and they still stay competive. It is hard enough to convince a top football athlete to come to BYU or Utah knowing that a national championship isnt even a option --dosent every top athlete want to play for being # 1 in there given sport! So a quarterback decided not to go to the home school, sounds like Danny Ainge and the University if Oregon all over again, now BYU has an advantage--ya right--Put BYU and UTAH on the same playing field for a national championship like the PAC 10 and the other BCS schools and I would guess more top LDS kids and non LDS kids will come. Go BYU!! ( and Utah )

Anonymous | 6:17 a.m. June 14, 2009

Rock on!

blue blood? | 6:25 a.m. June 14, 2009

Mr. Carter brings up a good point: Utah, while to a somewhat different degree, faces the same LDS / mission / commitment. etc. issues. I would be quite interested in an article that compared the LDS player numbers (how many, how many RMs, how many married, starters, etc., etc.)
As a side rant: I have long been irritated by the MTN's commentator that refers to the BYU-Utah game as a "holy war" (it's the wrong analogy)-- when, in fact, there are lots of LDS kids on both sides and some kids not of that faith. With tongue in cheek, I tend to think of the game as a "civil war" (that team down south). The way the "holy war" tag used to be applied was when BYU played Notre Dame (and that's a poor viewpoint as well).
Too bad other schools have "such a disadvantage" compared to BYU... ha! Sounds like WA had to excuse a bad day of recruiting.

Steve J | 7:46 a.m. June 14, 2009

Prior to LaVell coaching and winning at BYU, the comment was BYU would never be a consistent team while allowing players to go on missions. It is not the missions it is winning on the football field. Come on a former coach from Washington, is still upset about the refs call unsportsman like conduct that supposedly allowed the Cougars to blcok the extra point for the win.

Elder | 8:08 a.m. June 14, 2009

Y will win the BCS national championshiop this football season. Prediction Y will beat OU 44-10 and Y will beat FSU 33-14 and the rest of the schedule including the MWC schedule are a bunch of cupcakes like the U which will be no problem for the Y. The Y is not only smarter but also more athletic than their opposition.

Y Grad / Y Dad | 8:41 a.m. June 14, 2009

Props to the Ute fans who managed their digs at the Y with subtlety while actually addressing the issue.

But I gotta say, an NC is not out of the picture, for either team. And despite the BCS, the pathway is still the same as it was in 84: start with a decent ranking; win your games; and the teams ahead of you need to lose (even only one game, if it is late in the season).

Can an undefeated team be snubbed? Look at Utah and Boise. Can a number 1 rated team be snubbed? I don't think so.

The secret is consistency. Now before you Utes get wound up about how many games the Y has lost to ranked teams, I mean consistency in the top 25. Where you START the season ranked DOES matter, and where you start depends on where you have been before. Immediate advantage - Utah, so do something with it.

But BYU WILL start the season ranked, COULD go undefeated (yes, I know who we start with...), may end up higher ranked than Utah (!!!!) and COULD end up number 1. With a bunch of old, slow returned missionaries.

I Agree With All Of You? | 9:02 a.m. June 14, 2009

I'm an Aggie,and that is NEVER going to change! As for top recruits like Heaps signing with BYU it tickles me to death. Reason-I want the best LDS kids to attend the school of their choice, and if that is BYU great. The only junk in the ointment is when BYU recruits a kid that has made a committment to another school and has enrolled, the recruiting should STOP then and there(Riley Nelson). I will be surprised if Riley EVER plays meaningful minutes at the position he made his name at. Moving on though I hope the Utah colleges continue to get the very best LDS kids always!

true blue | 9:02 a.m. June 14, 2009

Not only that going on a mission hurts draft status. No one wants a to draft a 27 yo rookie. Austin Collie and Jacobson would've been better off (football wise) not going. Collie struggled with speed and injuries his first season back.

Utah has the better recruiting situation b/c they aren't limited by the honor code, so they get the best of both worlds.

Anonymous | 9:47 a.m. June 14, 2009

Compare the average age of BYU and USC players. They're very, very close. Interesting.

Utah Fan | 9:53 a.m. June 14, 2009

Here is one Utah fan who agrees almost completely with Rock on this issue. I hope I still get some credit for being "agreeable," but expressing a slightly different opinion.

Every school uses every tool it has when it comes to recruiting. Everybody does it and will continue to do so. There, yes, everybody should grow up.

The one area I wonder about is whether a player -- I don't care who he plays for -- should be allowed to take 2 years off and then still get the "extra" red-shirt year, in effect having 7 years to complete 4 years of eligibility.

If this debate ever occurs at a national-level (which I doubt), those with a significant number of returned missionaries in their programs may want to consider it a "middle" ground position to agree to 6 years to complete 4 years of eligibility, everything else the same as it is now.

I think this is a "sacrifice" most missionaries would be happy to make.

I also think that medical hardship (injury) should create an exception to the exception -- a player who gets hurt, in other words, should get the "extra" year.

Common sense | 10:17 a.m. June 14, 2009

Ask any football head coach if he would like to have a full 4-5 years straight with their recruits, or if they'd rather they leave for 2 years half way through their eligibility and come back in who knows what kind of shape??? Guaranteed 100% of the coaches would NEVER want them to leave for 2 years but would rather they'd played the full 4-5 years straight through.

Just this fact in and of itself makes this "advantage" a moot point.

akk | 10:54 a.m. June 14, 2009

Who cares.... BYU doesn't recruit speed.... until they do they are a regional power and thats it. Nothing wrong with that at all. It is what it is.

Just sayin' | 10:55 a.m. June 14, 2009

that what is REALLY unfair is the advantage of BCS money (thanks for the check, Utah!) and what is totally unjust is that even with the BCS bucks, Washington is still at the bottom of the bottom.

utwingnut | 11:06 a.m. June 14, 2009

It's only a matter of time before the BCS puts yet another obsticle in the way of the MWC.

What advantage | 11:23 a.m. June 14, 2009

If their results represent any advantage, how sad would it be without the 'advantage'!?!

Irish Ute | 11:41 a.m. June 14, 2009

Is it me or was the fact that Washington went 0-12 last season completely omitted as a possible reason why Heaps decided not to go to UW. Sure, it would be nice to be the QB that rebuilt a program in shambles, but that is an awfully big bet to make on one's football career. Besides, dude probably wants to get married someday and the law of averages is definitely better down in Provo vs. UW. And to all of you Y fans that are already predicting an undefeated season...I wish you the best, but remember how embarrasing it was to have to wear that "Quest for Perfection" shirt after the TCU game this last season? BYU and Utah will both have solid teams this year, but going undefeated is something that doesn't happen a lot. Utah has been very fortunate over the past few years, I'll admit.

7 years | 12:15 p.m. June 14, 2009

If other colleges really believe that having returned missionaries is an advantage then they should encourage their students to go perform service abroad in the peace corps or other such opportunities. Nothing is stopping them from doing so. Then they can have students who leave for two years and come back less in shape. This is not an advantage!

Cougar in Sandy | 12:45 p.m. June 14, 2009

Leave alone about NC talk, will have to take care other things first. 2 yrs mission, sure they walk a lot of miles lifting their scripters and books. Advantage, stronger mauturity not stronger body. Slower - true true but their mind might be sharper. What was his name who was 27 years old playing QB for Bobby Bowden FSU? Did Bobby mind about this adult guy? NO! Who listen to Barry Switzer or Billy Tubb or some others, I don't.
Go Cougars and just beat UTAH and OU and FSU!

Fair | 12:45 p.m. June 14, 2009

I didn't hear these crybaby schools complaining when they were able to offer a large number of scholarships and they would stockpile the athletes so no other school could have them. A bunch of crybabies. Several years ago ESPN analyzed the teams in the MWC and the ages were very close to BYU and Utah. Then they compared the ages to the non conference teams BYU played over a several year period, again the ages were very close.

Baird is another crybaby who wants it his way or he will take his ball and cry all the way home.

Bishops are not allowed to contact a missionary directly. Even they must go through the Mission President and it must be an emergency. After the missionary has been out one year he is no longer obligated to go back to the school from which he left or committed to. Those are NCAA rules. No one can stop a missionary from writing to a coach and asking him about his program after that one year.

Sometimes a kids perspectives change and he looks at the program he left and see the changes and sees he needs to make changes.

Bender Rodriguez | 1:00 p.m. June 14, 2009

re: BYU Baker blue | 5:14 a.m. June 14, 2009

//Why all the fuss??? Is BYU a threat to the Pac 10 or BCS Boys club?//

They allegedly are this time of year. All the talk & hype are negated when the Vegas Bowl kicks off.

Heaps and Detmer | 1:15 p.m. June 14, 2009

And the DN has a story from Ute homer Sorensen claiming that these top-notch recruits often don't pan out. The example provided is Ben Olson, who did go on a mission and then transferred to UCLA where he didn't pan out. However, the previous blue chip QB recruit that BYU got was a non-Mormon out of Texas named Ty Detmer, and he went on to win the Heisman. Some of the recruits are Mormons and some are not. Some pan out and some do not. I just get tired of all the attacks on BYU.

Adam | 1:20 p.m. June 14, 2009

I'm a die hard Washington fan...and even I agree with much of the article! Every team in football looks for a way to gain an upper hand in recruiting, and they utilize the natural advantages that their school possesses.

I think allot of Washington fans are bitter that we lost out on Heaps...I for one think we got a better fit for our team in Montana...some fans have childishly lashed out in disappointment. Frankly, I'm not surprised Dick Baird was one of them.

The next three UW v.s. BYU games are going to be interesting, especially if Heaps is involved.

Hollywood | 1:21 p.m. June 14, 2009

BYU has a definite disadvantage because of the honor code. If I'm a top athlete and want to go to college to play ball, party and bag as many babes as I can, why would I choose BYU?

There's a reason very few top athletes who are non-LDS end up at BYU.

Why not talk about the advantage TCU or SMU have in getting baptist players to attend? Or Notre Dame?

Back in the 80's Washington was one of the top PAC-10 programs under Don James. Dick Baird should just concentrate on building the program. Put together a few winning seasons and Washington will be a lot more attractive to most athletes than BYU.

The truth | 1:23 p.m. June 14, 2009

I hope Heaps can pray enough at his church that when they come to Seattle in a couple years he doesn't get popped by Chris Young or any of the other far superior UW recruits. I hope Nick Montana rifles a ball through his face and takes his girlfriend.

hahaha | 1:33 p.m. June 14, 2009

Is this the same BYU team that almost lost to the worst UW team in history last year?

Come on, everyone knows that Heaps' decision wasn't a football decision. Look at his offers...

TheHailstorm | 1:36 p.m. June 14, 2009

I still feel bad for Riley Nelson , and no I don't think that the Blue Blood recruiters like Doughman left him to his own while on his mission. Anyone can write to a missionary and I wouldn't put it past Donko to give a heads up to Riley while he was out in the field.
I do think that he would have done much better by not shifting his loyalties and that Gary Anderson would make a much better coach for him.
BYU is not as honorable as they would have you believe. Remember that after that Manti chap said he was going to play for the " Fighting Irish ", that Bronky sent Doughman over to Hawaii for a week and told him to camp on his doorstep and see if he could sway and guilt trip the kid into playing for YBU.
Whatever,all I know is that Bronky is handing out a lot of scholarships prior to their Senior season. I think he has 11 left for the 2010 season and heaven forbid if he has not a one left when some other LDS star rises on his horizon.

Houston_Dawg | 1:59 p.m. June 14, 2009

I'm a UW fan and am very happy for Heaps. It's his choice and he made it. I'm sure some feel the pull to their church, but I don't think that the church tried to sway him one way or the other. He's a smart kid and he choice what was best for him.

Best of luck to you Jake. You have a heck of a future ahead of you.

the Truth is... | 2:01 p.m. June 14, 2009

BYU is not an "upper-division level" program. They are the little brother at best, even with the return missionary's.

I hope these three prized recruits enjoy their time at the Las Vegas Bowl...again, again, again and again.

predetermined | 2:18 p.m. June 14, 2009

heaps college decision was made years ago, not this month

Fact Check | 2:20 p.m. June 14, 2009

To TheHailstorm 1:36 p.m.

Purely your opinions which run contrary to the facts that say otherwise in regards to Riley Nelson. It is clearly documented that the HS coach put the parents in touch with BYU when he knew Nelson's dad was canned by the USU administration and was looking for a school. BYU contacted Nelson only after they had permission from his parents and mission president, and his 18 months in the field has passed.

Your Manti Te'o information is equally as inaccurate. BYU never had any contact with him, and sent nobody to see him after he called BYU to say he was going to commit to Notre Dame. The Te'o family will be happy to confirm this with you.

Speaking of honor, it is no honor to conjur up objections and unfounded accusations to feed your own biases.

Ben H. | 2:22 p.m. June 14, 2009

Baird's accusation would be true if every LDS Stake President and Bishop were BYU homer's. Believe me, and I have been around in the church, that is not the case...even in Utah.

The Real Truth is... | 2:24 p.m. June 14, 2009

BYU wants to win, but winning at BYU is not at the top of the list of priorities. My son is a BYU student, not because it has the very best football program, not because it has the very best academics, or not because it is internationally recognized as the best university in the United States (although BYU does pretty well in all of those areas). He attends BYU because of the balanced education and life approach they offer.

I love BYU for being a place where real priorities still matter. Football's great, but it's about 20th on my list of reasons to select a university...although players like Heap rightfully have slightly different priorities than I do. Go BYU!

re: Matthew | 2:33 p.m. June 14, 2009

Thanks! I'm a Cougar (Class of '06 and '10) and I bleed blue, but I appreciated your comment! Ours is a great rivalry because it's passionate, but we should also be reasonable and intelligent. Thank you for a good example!

Bitter Baird | 2:37 p.m. June 14, 2009

It must be especially difficult for Baird to recruit LDS guys to Washington. After all his team went 0-12 last year, including a loss to BYU. His school decided to solve the problems by hiring a former BYU QB as the new head coach. If I had a choice of attending such an underachieving program with a BYU grad as head coach or attend a winning program that trained that head coach, I don't think there would be much hesitation. It doesn't take a bishop or stake president to tell me how difficult things have been for the Huskies--and I'm a former resident of Washington.

Whiners | 2:45 p.m. June 14, 2009

It's always fun to read an article about two schools in Utah that can belly ache, whine and call names at each other.

While the 2 year mission thing really doesn't give BYU or Utah that much of an advantage, its always fun to poke fun at them and call them the old man teams of the league.

If we didn't have BYU and Utah (now days) the MWC would be a joke of a league and wouldn't get a lot of respect.

Bottom line is, TCU, CSU, New Mexico, Air Force are becoming increasingly better because of the two schools in Utah. Not to mention that Wyoming may turn the corner with the new Coach Christensen, whom I think has brought some of the best talent to Wyoming in some time. Hold on to your hat Utah citizens, the polynesian pipeline just got pumped into Laramie.

MWC is the up an coming conference, watch and see!

UofW the real '84 Champs | 2:49 p.m. June 14, 2009

The Seattle area is not crying about Jake Heaps. We got the better QB in Nick Montana and overall a better recruiting class.

As far as the LDS advantage, who cares. Everyschool has advantages and disadvantages to some extent.

Besides after all is said and done, in two years the UofW will be in the national championship picture again, and BYWho will still be in a above average high school league.

re: the Truth is... | 2:52 p.m. June 14, 2009

Utah got a great coach in Kyle Whittingham. As far as strategy goes, his style of relentless defense sets him apart and is probably the reason that the Cougars offered him before Mendenhall.

Unfortunately, BYU is the better program. History teaches us that the Cougars will win 10 or 11 games next year while the Utes fall off a cliff until going undefeated again in 2013. If it weren't for the consistency of BYU and TCU, Utah wouldn't have made a BCS bowl last year (Boise State would have enjoyed it instead). Sorry, but that's simple fact.

Look at the polls last year and assess what happened with BYU's win over UCLA and TCU's win over BYU. If both teams were doormats (as Utah claims that BYU is), the Utes wouldn't have had a case for a BCS NC game berth. On the plus side, they would've beaten Arizona, at least. I'm still not sure why my Cougars were unable to do that...

RE: 2:49 | 2:58 p.m. June 14, 2009

Good luck with that. Also, didn't UW turn down an invitation to play BYU in the Holiday Bowl because they were affraid that BYU would wipe the field with their blue and gold. Nice try, but if you want to claim to be the real '84 Champs, maybe you should have taken the invite and proven it.

Congrats to BYU and Heaps | 3:08 p.m. June 14, 2009

The general consensus among the UW fans (myself included) that I talk to is simply "if Heaps didn't want to be at UW, we dont' want him at UW". Not in a bitter tone, but in a tone that is very matter of fact. This is an 18 year-old kid that is deciding things well beyond football. Truly wish him the best.
That being said, I will be rooting for Oaks Chrisitian (Montana's school) when they play Skyline (Heaps' school) on Sept. 18th here in WA. I wish Heaps the best in life and the worst on the football field. ;)

Palo Alto Dawg | 3:11 p.m. June 14, 2009

Let's see...play in the Holiday Bowl against BYU or play in the Orange Bowl against Oklahoma on New Year's Day on National Television in Prime Time on the East Coast. Hmmmm. Which would you choose?

Nobody cares | 3:16 p.m. June 14, 2009

We are talking about Washington, right? The team ranked just ahead of USU. It wasn't a hard decision if your going for football. When you add in religion, easy decision.
The only thing that surprised me was the Whitt didn't onside kick late in the game against Bama. I hear he is classy and respectable like that.

TheHailstorm | 3:24 p.m. June 14, 2009

BYU was all over Manti Teo. They had an article in the paper quoting Donko on that very subject. Don't even begin to tell me that my facts aren't strait. Writing your cat scat opinion will never outlive the Fact that Bronky was more than hopeful in signing the Manti kid. It was all over in the press. Where were you when they handed out the bifocals?
And Yes they do stretch the rules while the missionaries are away... parents , aunts , uncles Relief Society visitors, and home teachers can all write to these guys. Your not blowing blue smoke up my tail pipe telling me otherwise, and lying about it isn't helping your peudo- christian cause.

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