Unbelievable! Is Utah a third world country?
You forgot to add they are all Laker fans. Pathetic!
["God already "decided" and made it clear what is sin and homosexuality is
sin. You can read that in the Old or New Testament any day of the week."]pls explain when you sat down with God and He tol you this. Inquiring
minds want to know. Was this over coffee?or did you just read it in
an old book - ie - your "Old or New Testament", which has unknown origins and
may in fact be of fictious authorship. Your assumption that if it's
in the bible then it's God's word is simply that - your assumption.Pls stick to facts, of which you have very few.
If gays weren't hated by Christians, and other religious entities, perhaps the
alcohol consumption and suicide rates would be lower.They aren't
drastically low anyway.There's more straight women than gay men than
AIDs.There are more straight men, and women, even children, who
consume alcohol than gays.If you understand ratios, you would see
why.The face of Christianity, as seen by me at least, is demonic in
nature. All you talk of is sin, and how you hate such and such.If
you were true to your cause, you would thank god for his creation, instead of
crying out with hatred, or even worse pity.I'm trying as hard as I
can to stay neutral here, but the anti-gay view of Christians isn't fair.We would respect your place, if you respect ours.
I have gay friends. Some are committed like Linguist (6:48 p.m. June 11, 2009)
and some are single still struggling with how they should proceed with their
life. Pretty much the same story as the general population. None of them fit
the description of the original letter writer. And I care for them just as much
as I do for my straight friends because they are deserving. I wouldnt want
them to change who they are because they didnt chose to be gay.
Gay people are not asking for special rights, just the same ones you have and
please don't give me that tired tripe of they have the same rights because they
can marry someone of the opposite sex. You all have the right to
marry the one you love. This is the right that is being denied to gay folks.
This is all they want.In some countries your spouse is picked at
birth. Imagine having to marry someone you don't love and worse, you are
repulsed by him or her.
It amazes me that the letter writer can decry the "alcoholism, drug abuse, and
suicide" among gays but cannot pause to even consider that the condemnation and
marginalization of gays that he advocates might just have something to do with
Change the name to any other group and this would have never been printed. If
it had, even more readers would be outraged at the claims.The "Days
of 47 Parade" is similarly the "Mormon Pride" parade. Yet no one complains
about them celebrating their culture and contributions.Mr. MacKay
can find what he wants to find. Personally, my husband and I are:15+
years in a committed/monogamous relationshipNo alcoholism.No drug
use.No Suicide.No AIDS or any STD.Mr. MacKay has no
facts proving that Marriage Equality is a danger to anyone, in fact treating
everyone equalty benefits all of society.Whomever your god that
promotes discrimination and prejudice, it is yours, and the government should
not be denying fellow citizens of their civil rights and government granted
benefits based upon another citizen's religious choice.Where is the
love in this letter? Utterly absent.
Your attempt to use scripture is wrong on two points:POINT 1:Judging is NOT wrong. What Jesus gave us was warning that YOu will be
judged by the same measure you Judge by, this is neccessary so YOU are NOT also
guilty of the sin of hypocrisy. So, judge righteously.POINT
2:Scriptures from the NEW testament
(the_OLD_testemant_is_quite_clear_to_God_it_is_an_abominaton) clearly show that
like any and all immorality, immoral behavior including practicing
homosexuality, is a sin:Romans 1:26For this reason God
gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use
for what is against nature. 1:27Likewise also the men, leaving the
natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men
committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their
error which was due. 1 Cor. 6:9Know ye not that the
unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither
fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of
themselves with mankind, NOTE: Effeminate is the Greek word malakov
meaning..."soft, soft to the touch/ of a male who submits his body to
Consider the source from whence this letter came.
To AVT, I think the reason you and your family have been so depressed about your
son being gay, is your reaction to it. Had you of embraced your son's sexualty
from the beginning, he maybe wouldn't have felt the need to marry a girl and
have children. This is the problem, many LDS boys are what they are, gay. But
parents and church leaders make them feel inadequate if they don't follow the
norm. Mission, temple marriage etc. The problem I am afraid is you. My
brother is gay and has known he was gay since he was 15. As a family we
accepted this and we accepted the few partners that he has had over the years,
no more or no less than any hetrosexual young man. Tere has never been any
depression in our family about his homosexuality infact we never think about him
being straight or gay, he just is who he is, a successful university professor.
I hate to say this, but you as his parents have let him down, not the other way
to 1:18You are soooooooooooooooooo wrong. It was founded on polygamy. No
moral standards whatsoever!
avt wrote, "...My heart still goes out to this community and my son, but there
is nothing happy or "gay" about homosexuality."With respect, gay
people are just people. We live our lives, often against enormous odds, given
the stigma assigned to innocent gay people by elements of society.I
spent many years struggling, trying to understand why God didn't answer my calls
for Him to "change" me and make me heterosexual. For the record, I remained
celibate the entire time.I was very lonely, and very unhappy. My
prayers were eventually answered. Through introspection, observation and much
reflection, I came to the conclusion that, although my sexual orientation was
apparently fixed, that didn't mean I couldn't live a good, moral and full life.
I fell in love. We have been together for many years. He was there
for me during the saddest days, when first my father and then my mother died.
He is also with me on the happiest days, including the day when we were married
in the most wonderful religious ceremony ever.I am blessed. And
that give me great joy. I wish for you as much joy in your life.Peace.
"All" wrote, "...Names like linguist only makes me more ill. I think there is an
organized front by the gay community to challenge all letters and posts to the
DN..."With respect, I really am a linguist.As for being
part of some "organized front," no, I belong to absolutely no gay
organizations. None.But when I wake up and read the newspaper and
have my wonderful, committed, monogamous relationship with the person I love
called "a danger to humanity, the family, children and is against the law of
God," I feel a moral obligation to speak up and tell the truth. And, again with
respect, none of that could be further from the truth.I am not an
alcoholic, have never taken drugs, am not suicidal, and am at lower risk of HIV
infection than any heterosexual who is not in a committed relationship. What
would you have me do: nod and say, "Oh yes, this person who doesn't know me
from Adam obviously knows more about me and my life than I do""?Sorry. I do not know whether this writer "hates" or not. But he doesn't know
the first thing about my life.
what is really funny here is that not one person seems to have picked up on the
fact that the letter writer clearly has no understanding of the word oxymoron.
The freaky Religious Right never quits do they?I wonder if they all own
guns and know the Holocaust Museum killer?
@246pm | 4:31 p.m. June 11, 2009 "God already "decided" and made it clear
what is sin and homosexuality is sin. You can read that in the Old or New
Testament any day of the week."God ALSO decided that the judging
would be his. He did tell you not to judge unless you wanted to be judged with
the same amount of knowledge that you judged others. You better make sure you
know EVERYTHING there is to know about how people become homosexual before you
start throwing judgements around, shouldn't you?
Your argument is so flawed it is hilarious. Until you follow the Old Testament
to the letter, then you have NO place using it to judge other people. And on
that topic, who translated the Old Testament? And do you only use the Old
Testament because it has the only "translated" reference to homosexuality? After reading it myself, I could see how many of the so called
"homosexuality is wrong" passages could be contrued many different ways. But I am sure I am just justifing my evil view, and you will not be
disuaded about the 'sin' I am committing.
I have had several post removed, including posts that were too blunt about
homosexuals.I think it depends who's on at the time. Best time for
conservatives seems to be during the day, night time for those honoring
homosexuals and atheists.There is more hate, more insults, directed
at conservatives than others, and dilike of homosexuality does not constitute
God already "decided" and made it clear what is sin and homosexuality is sin.
You can read that in the Old or New Testament any day of the week.
Looks like the bigots on the D-news editorial board are at it again, imagine
deciding to print this letter.
Spaghedeity,Get used to it. I've been railing on these guys for their
selective and biased censorship almost since this forum came into being. Not
much has changed.
re 2:53 p.m.You're going to have to define "causal" for these
people. They truly have no logical reasoning ability whatsoever.
avt,Sounds to me the LDS Church is more likely to be the cause of your
unhappiness than is his being gay. Would everyone have been happier
in the long run if your son had lived openly as a gay man in a long-term,
monogamous same-sex "marriage" rather than being pressured into getting married
to a woman and having kids? Be honest . . .
Interesting... I recently submitted a post that was published then removed, so I
can only assume was deemed offensive to the admins. The post was
simply a response to many of the above comments which claimed that what is being
said doesn't constitute "Hate".I rephrased some comments almost word
for word, but instead of targeting homosexuals, I directed it towards
Mormons.Apparently the comments above are acceptable attacks against
homosexuals, but when said against Mormons they are too inflammatory to post.Hypocrites.
Maybe you should go back and read the articles pertaining to Miss California.
You would first realize that Donald Trump gave her a second chance and she
squandered it. Second of all, I saw nothing saying a single gay person had
anything to do with the decision to de-crown her. She made her bed, now she has
to sleep in it. I agree it was a boneheading thing for whats his
face Perez to say the crap he has said, but his opinion had nothing to do with
you mean read into it what I read into it right? or do you actually have proof
of your claims.
being gay produces AIDS, alcoholism, suicide? really? show me the causal
relationship. What evidence do you have of cause and effect?
right it had nothing to do with her refusal to honor her contractual agreements
including not showing for scheduled appearances. I guess taking personal
responsibilities does not apply to the Christian right.
I think you maybe on to something, are you able to turn that same lens on your
own behaviors coming on here and passing judgement on the homosexual community
as sinners to full of pride. You have heard the old saying when ever you point
at someone there are three fingers pointing back at you right? You
may want to consider letting go of your sinful pride and let god decide what is
"They finally took the crown off her head and all of this because she didn't
agree with their twisted politically correct version of the world."Miss California was fired by Donald Trump for not showing up to her assigned
appointments and for not keeping her part of a contract. Gays had absolutely no
control over this at all.Talk about twisting facts to prove a point.
Brother! You take the cake.
"I find it highly amusing that you call anyone that questions Gays as "HATERS"
and yet, you spewed HATE out for one organization that truly does help others in
time of need."I am anonymous at 10:26. There is not one word about
"hate or haters" in my post. Are you reading things into it that are not there?
All I asked for is for you to show me where the LDS church gave to help those
with AIDS or gave to help find a cure. You have told me that they
did, but I still have not seen where or when. Did they? Please cite to whom
and when. Thanks.
Gay pride is indeed the opposite of what homosexuality is. I have a
homosexual son. We have loved him without conditions, but the cost to him, his
ex-wife, and my wife and I has been enormous. I have contemplated suicide,
because there are no answeres from science or the LDS church. My wife and I, my
sons ex wife and others have suffered for years with depression and anxiety
because of the spriritual consequences of what happened. The writer of this
letter is right, the truth is homosexuality is a serious sin, which causes
widespread unhappiness, depression, alcohol and drug abuse, and sometimes leads
to death. My son is on his 2nd partner, if you exempt a period of time when he
had hundreds of sexual partners. We all feared he or his wife may have aids.
My heart still goes out to this community and my son, but there is nothing happy
or "gay" about homosexuality.
Read between the lines. They were looking for a reason to take the crown. This
has everything to do with her gay marriage position.
Nice! Questioning whether this letter lives up to the standards this paper
supposedly purports is grounds to be cenosored. Thank you D-news for proving my
Anon 12:39 p.m.You have no idea what you are talking about. She
lost her crown because she didn't do her job. It had nothing at all to do with
her opinion about same-sex marriage.
Confused,No one is bashing anyone's right to say anything. No one
has a right to have their hateful opinions published in a newspaper. And if
they do get them published, they certainly don't have the right to not get
blowback.Confused? Yes, you truly are.
if you want to talk hate then look no further than the HATE and WRONGS that have
been heaped against Ms California by GAYS and their supporters. They finally
took the crown off her head and all of this because she didn't agree with their
twisted politically correct version of the world. Yes, let's talk about HATE but
let's also put it in its proper focus and identify who is REALLY the haters and
hypocrites -THE GAY ACTIVISTS!!!!
If this country truly does have "Freedom of Speach" then why are so many bashing
one person right to say what he feels?I have been at the "Pride"
parade and quite honestly was offended by what I saw and heard.Just
like the gays, the Straight people have a right to express their opinions..Is not this what makes our country great?
Straigh men do it too. My dad left my mom for another woman and I haven't spoke
to him since. Gays and straigts both do it. And it's bad either way.
Anon 10:26Better go do some research before you spew your anti LDS
garbage. Whenever there is a disater the LDS church is there(even before the Red
Cross) with clothing, blankets, food and water.The LDS sponsers
missions for people who build schools, teach locals hygene, drill wells for
fresh water, etc... Again Service my friend.As for the HIV, The LDS
church has given money to research facilities to help find a cure.I
find it highly amusing that you call anyone that questions Gays as "HATERS" and
yet, you spewed HATE out for one organization that truly does help others in
time of need.Do the research and open that closed mind of yours.
you're confused. Disagreement is not hate. This letter never once used the word
"hate" nor did it imply any hate toward gays. The letter rightly pointed out the
fallacy of the politically correct term "gay pride" and how homosexuality does
indeed produce sky high suicide rates as well as AIDS and other infectious
disease along with the severe social ills that accompany it. These are not
opinions - these are facts and they have nothing at all to do with hate. It is
convenient but also childish to label someone as a hater just because they
disagree with your point of view.
You need some serious help, I feel sorry for you."This Church" needs to do more
to help people like this be more tollerant.
Reynolds makes a great point! I know a gay man who left his wife with 5
children under the age of 9 and moved to SF to find himself. 7 years later
still no word from him or a dime to his kids......You out there TIM!
Pride is a negative word that denotes arrogance and an attitude of
'entitlement'. It is the handle that fits all sins.The more
egregious sins are accompanied by the greater pride. I can hardly believe the
hubris that accompanies the haughty speeches of homosexual activists. I'm glad
the God of Nature rained hard on its local parade of arrogance.Yet
pride comes before a fall. I would that homosexuals would change their ways.
Most of us would, I believe, do not have a vindictive feeling when another
recognises a fault and abandons it. Do you see the look of
arrogance on the face of gangsters, and murderers when you see their mug shots
on the local news? They have, I suppose, to nurture a feeling of superiority to
enable them to go through with their total disregard of the rights of others.
Those "rights" do not entitle anyone to change the meanings of basic words like
"marriage" or to force the majority to accept the strange desires of a certain
minority who wants to turn all values upside down.
I do not see 'hate' in this letter and I'm not apologizing. Gays use the
label of 'hate' towards others who disagree with them, so they don't have to
look at the truth about themselves. Its' called 'silencing your conscience'.
Instead of owning their own filth, they deny it by pointing the finger at others
to make themselves feel better. I saw this letter as nothing more than a
display of truth for all to see. If gays have nothing to hide, they would have
no problem with it.
Judging people is also against the word of God, and a danger to everyone.
"People do disagree that homosexuality is normal and should be given special
rights."I am gay and I admit that being gay is not normal. Neither
is being left-handed or red headed.Being different or abnormal is
not a reason to deny anyone the same rights that you have.What
"special rights" do you think gays want?
It's beginning to get harder and harder to find something nice to say about the
Right.I must thank them all for reminding me to keep focusing on
compassion.Father forgive them - they know not what they do.
gay supporters always like to jump to the HATE word anytime anyone questions
their twisted behavior. They love to label anyone as a HATER who disagrees with
their wrong minded view of the world. By falsely labeling people gays think it
helps to further their cause - which it doesn't. The reality is people don't
HATE gays. People do disagree that homosexuality is normal and should be given
special rights. Democracy is all about debate and democratic process and it is
the gay activist movement who was doing all the hating and abusing after prop 8
passed in California by the democratic vote of the people.
"this church" has done and will continue to do more with its financial resources
for the good of mankind than any other organization on the face of the
earth,"Show me where they loved the gays that were stricken with
AIDS. I have never seen where the church helped those people financially or
gave to help find a cure.Do you have to fit into the LDS model to
get financial aid from the LDS or do they help all God's children without
No Standard of Decency | 1:18 a.m.The DMN publishes opinions that I
find offensive all the time. Try to grow up and be more mature about it. It's
just one person's opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but try to deal
with it.The decision to publish this letter, while offensive to
many, does not tell you anything about the ownership of the paper.
I think that this letter must be a joke, know body really thinks this way,
surely! Reynolds has just made up the most controversial letter and sent it out
just to get a reaction.....right? PLease tell me that I am right! Anyone?
"when EVEN this church will respect the love of every neighbor." Wow, what do
you know of "this church" and love of neighbors? I have seen so much good and
love spread by "this church" that it leaves me amazed! "this church" has done
and will continue to do more with its financial resources for the good of
mankind than any other organization on the face of the earth, all while the
naysayers keep brayeing negativity at the miracle of it all.
When you meet St Peter at the Pearly Gates, be sure to show him (with great
pride!) your hate filled letter of bigotry.
The Taliban would agree with this letter.
"Same-sex marriage is a danger to humanity, the family, children and is against
the law of God."Wrong Reynolds. You've been listening to too much
Limbaugh, Beck and Fox.Hatred for your fellow man is "a danger to
humanity, the family, children and is against the law of God."
"Can there be pride in the high rate of alcoholism, drug abuse and suicide among
homosexuals?" I will fully admit there is a higher rate of these
things in the gay community - but did you ever stop to think it might be because
of the hatred and bigotry espoused by people like you?I know many
gay people who have been kicked out of their homes as teenagers - no support
from family and certainly no help from the community - like you and this
paper.YOU are the problem. BIGOTS like you.And I don't
go around saying that people from Provo are "a danger to humanity, the family,
children and is against the law of God." But maybe I should.
Reynolds says, "Same-sex marriage is a danger to humanity, the family, children
and is against the law of God."What's dangerous are those
individuals who think they know the law of God and rebuke those who dissagree
with them.Reynolds, you are keeping up the proud tradition of an
intolerant and unempathetic world view that contributes to war, genocide, hate
crimes, etc.... "the golden rule" wasn't lost on you eh?
DNews - have you no shame? No standards?Foaming-at-the-mouth bigots
like Mr. Reynolds are a dime a dozen, especially here in Utah, and I'm not
surprised by his rant.What _does_ surprise me, and disgust me, is
that the folks at the DNews feel that such childish garbage is worthy of ink and
paper.Are there no DNews staffers who wonder what on Earth they're
doing with their lives when they see what kind of hate-filled tripe their
Deseret News - this letter is homophobic and hateful. It is in lines with a
racist letter of the 50's. It is shameful you would publish such filth.
Please tell us how gay marriage has a negative impact on humanity, children or a
family.The right-wing religious wing nuts will ruin this country.
Are you for real? Your right its a grand conspiracy, dont worry we already know
how you are and where you live and we will be sending you decapitated
toaster.....please get over yourself.
Right on Reynolds. Thanks for having the courage to call it like it is. I only
wish they taught those things in church George to balance out what is being fed
to our children. Perhaps they teach that in the faith you belong to.
It may be beyond some folks comprehension, but the comments written in this
letter are exactly why there's a gay-rights movement. Enough is enough.
It's true. Pride is one of the seven deadly sins, along with lust, gluttony,
greed, sloth, wrath, and envy.Guilty as charged. Clearly, we gay
citizens need to cease feeling pride in who we are. Now onto the
other six: lust gluttony, sloth wrath and envy! Sin hunters, man your stations.
We're huntin' heretics!
Every gay person in town gets up every morning to scan the opinion pages. Names
like linguist only makes me more ill. I think there is an organized front by
the gay community to challenge all letters and posts to the DN.
Do they teach you in church to be this angry and spiteful?
I know of a gay man that is raising his 5 children because the mother is
incapable, these children are well rounded. He even takes them to LDS church
etc and is President of the PTA in his school area. What damage is he doing to
his family and community? He's a lot better father than many that are married
to a woman
By all means we don't wish to encourage monogamy amongst homosexuals! But, is alcoholism, STDs, and gambling problmes amongst heterosexuals roots in
the people they love?
Reynolds amazes me with his insecurity. I'm sure that someone else's sexuality
threatens his. He needs to attack someones choice rather than be secure in his
own. Reynolds, live and let live.Marriage and the family appear to
be more affected by the straight community with their abuse and divorce.
Heterosexual couples choose not to have children all the time, is that a threat
to the family?EVERY gay person that I know was born to a straight
family. TO me that doesn't jibe with what Reynolds is fearing.
The author seems to be under the impression that if you rampage on with the same
lies long enough people may just start to believe them. These same false claims
have been made hundreds of times on these threads and shown to be baseless as
many times. This is beyond silly at this point. Its like talking to a brick
wall. The truth is easily accessible for anyone that really wants to know the
truth at this point it is just willful ignorance.
I am a gay man, and "pride" has always struck me as something of a misnomer for
what the Gay Rights Movement is about.Rather, it is about the
removal of the incredible stigma and animus that society has placed upon good,
decent, innocent people who realize, usually at a young age, that they are
gay.It's about no longer being ashamed of what is essentially a
morally-neutral trait. It's not good. It's not bad. It's no worse than being
color blind or being short. It just is.I am not promiscuous. I am
not at risk of HIV. I have a strong sense of what is good and what is evil, and
I live my life with a strong moral compass guiding it. I am in a loving,
committed relationship for many years.That the letter writer feels I
pose a threat to anyone suggests just why the "pride" movement arose--to
counteract the demonization of good people by some who simply don't seem to know
better, but who should.Gay "pride" in an essentially neutral trait
that no one chooses? Maybe not "pride."But "shame"? That would be
far more inappropriate.
The publication of this letter tells us more about the owner of this newspaper
than the letter's author tells us about reality. To be sure, the world is full
of those who are misinformed, ignorant, and bigoted. The shame is that this
newspaper would choose to print these words. The LDS Church and the gospels are
founded upon love, not the bigotry of this letter. The day will arrive when
even this Church will respect the love of every neighbor.