Deseret News | Jordan Board approves budget: no teacher raises

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Jordan Board approves budget: no teacher raises

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unhappy teachaer | 11:55 a.m. June 10, 2009

I forget about the meeting yesterday and feel bad that I did not attend. I am one of the teachers that has lost since day one. I have lost steps in order to fund new teacher bonuses. Now that I am finishing my masters and did National Boards, bother rigorous programs, no raise. I have a young family and now student loans to pay back. I can no longer afford to work in this district even though my heart is here. I am a product of this district along with my parents, and grandparents. I see it is now time to find a new career or change districts.

complain | 12:05 p.m. June 10, 2009

most of the winning about the pay freeze is from non teachers about teachers. I work at u of u hospital and we get no increase this year ether. I feel bad for anyone in that boat. you pepole should walk in other shoes before you say the things you do. They say the same thing about us being lucky we have a job. THEY WERE IN THE BLACK LAST YEAR. The u of u hospital is getting like corporate america. run the high end and to heck with the pepole below them. They hire outside consultants that cost millions to make up their minds. Why do they make all that money if they dont even do their own job.

re: re: stop your whining | 12:08 p.m. June 10, 2009

So teachers are the only ones with student loans? Hmmm. Maybe you should've done some homework before you went into debt. . .

Comments continue below

JEA is the problem | 12:33 p.m. June 10, 2009

Old teacher, you are exactly right. Your union is not effective. The reason why the other union is successful in representing secretaries, custodians, etc. is because it takes a cooperative approach. It realizes how to work as a team. JEA has always felt the need to promote an atmosphere of antagonism. It likes to pit people against each other and point fingers. What is surprising is that JEA leaders still haven't recognized that this "style" only works against them and their own members. Case in point, last night's bad publicity for teachers and this year's contract.

pay and accountability... | 12:35 p.m. June 10, 2009

Increase the benefits to teachers, make it easier to fire the bad ones, and you'll attract professionals from the private sector.

Jimmie H | 12:52 p.m. June 10, 2009

Oh no not another rally...honestly!!

Teachers need to learn how to throw a good old fashion strike!!

Brace yourself education is going to keep getting worse.

Remind me again why there is a shortage?

That's right our fearless leaders want teachers to work more so they can do less.

Our legislature and media haven't a clue.

Step right up and enter the wonderful profession of teaching.

Did I mention the average teacher goes 3-5 years now and OUT...MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!

Judging from the posts here I can see why!!

Annonymous | 12:56 p.m. June 10, 2009

The main issue I have a problem with is when you take away lane and step increases you are taking money from the least paid teachers. Once you hit 15 years of teaching you can't move up on the pay scale any more. So the district is taking money away from their least paid employees. I think it should be the other way around. Start at the top.
My roommate just finished getting her masters a month ago, and now she isn't going to get the promised amount for it? She is also a newer teacher so she won't get her step increase. Along with that she will be losing her prep days with eveyone else. How is that fair?

To Rude Comments | 1:07 p.m. June 10, 2009

To those complaining about teachers: I spend hundreds of dollars of my own money every year in order to be a good teacher for your children. I also put in hours of unpaid overtime every week. I suppose I could stop and just do what I'm paid for, but then your child wouldn't be getting a good education. They wouldn't even be getting an average one. The problem with many Utahns is they undervalue the people that spend the most time with their children and expect them to continuously do more for less. Then if they get upset or try to do anything about it, they get reamed out by people who don't have a clue what they are talking about. And as for a summer job on the ice cream truck. Almost all the schools in JSD are on year round. I'm not saying all teachers are good. I know they aren't, But we all put in unpaid overtime and if a teacher is "ineffective" it's because they've listened to too many abusive comments and are tired of being taken advantage of. In those instances, "You get what you pay for"

Peter T | 1:17 p.m. June 10, 2009

Pure class envy - pure arrogance in thinking, deciding what is fair, what teachers should get paid. Pure entitlement in thinking that just because you got a college degree, you should get paid more than at least X amount or more than X other type of worker.

You want some bureaucracy to equalize the field for all and decide what your value ($) is? Well, be careful what you wish for. I for one a don't want an artificial ceiling imposed, I don't want to be a drone in a union, unable to be rewarded for individual effort, but guaranteed job security based on the number of members of a union.

I want to be rewarded for my hard work (adding more value $) - and I expect to fail if I don't deliver results (add less value $)

Get govt. out of education. I'd trust a "greedy" business person more than a "greedy" politician anyday. What has govt. executed well that inspires everyone with so much confidence in their ability to teach our kids how to learn?

Me too | 2:04 p.m. June 10, 2009

I don't get a raise this year either, but I didn't have 7 days of pay cut, either. So I think a little whining is OK.

unhappy teachaer | 2:17 p.m. June 10, 2009

This is to Anonymous and any others that think JEA has their own interest at heart. Quit blaming them...they have fought the district on everything. I know, I have been part of the force. It is teachers like you that belly ache but aren't willing to fight. If every teacher fought then the district would have given some concessions. Have you attended board meetings to voice your opinion? What about writing board members? I am so sick of the "union" being blamed for everything when they are working their butts off!!!

unhappy teachaer | 3:24 p.m. June 10, 2009

@ Stop Whining I am in it for the kids, but I already spend a good chunk of my money for the kids. For supplies, training, etc...why should I receive a pay cut and still expect to give more of what I don't have.
Markey@Don't trust what is going on in Canyons. They are in the same boat as JSD. They are just bound by contract agreements for one year. Part of transition stuff.
@Teacher pay is generous enough: Cushy classroom my foot! The room is too small for all the students. The air doesn't work in while I am teaching in July. I have to move my stuff every 9 wks so another teacher can use my classroom.
@barbara Thanks for your kind words and support!
@ everyone else teachers deserve to be paid what we are worth just like other careers. Most teachers work the full year. Time off is usually spent taking classes and planning for the next year!

Anonymous | 3:42 p.m. June 10, 2009

"Frodge suggested closing schools for three or more days to fund steps and lanes."

I got a better solution idea that won't hurt students - give the educators the 5/6 of the raise, and let them pay for the health benefit increase. Both cost $5 Million.

Union is the reason? | 4:44 p.m. June 10, 2009

How stupid are you people? Blaming Unions, the only voice teachers have, is too neat a way to place blame for this problem. Unions are the only reason Utah has kept most of its teachers over the years. Have you never paid attention to how the state legislature screws over education every year? Teachers Unions are about the kids. They fight to keep money in schools and not the district office buildings. They fight to make sure each teacher has a voice at the district office.

Can you imagine the nightmare of not having a union? Every teacher is at the whim of principals and school board members? There would be zero stability in the classroom and even more turnover than there is now. That means a worse education for your kids, because they have to have a first year teacher every year. This is what has happened in charter schools- look at their turnover rates.

Unions only protect good teachers. If principals do their jobs they are overpaid to do then bad teachers do get fired. It is the principals job to hire good teachers and document bad ones. Unions can't stop that.

Chances are | 5:01 p.m. June 10, 2009

If you are not a celebirty, pro athlete or politician you feel you don't make enough. I know I don't.

Bad Field | 5:15 p.m. June 10, 2009

I feel bad for teachers and believe that they probably should be payed more. However, the union is insuring they never will be. In any normal work place, good employees are rewarded and bad ones are fired. There's a normal flow of employees in and out of a company. But teachers can't be fired, so new, better ones can't come in and good ones can't be recognized. If teachers got fired every year, then years of service would really show something and salaries would reall go up. If teachers were willing to move to a new town for a job, salaries would go up. If there were some sort of merit pay separate from student performance, salaries would go up. But there isn't, and they probably won't.

crazy! | 5:17 p.m. June 10, 2009

If you really think teachers are the only ones who work in "off-hours", you need to talk to someone with a real job. Those of us in the corporate world who aren't hourly routinely work many extra hours every day, and we're already working the eight hours mandated every day of every year with minimal holidays, sick pay or vacation. That's life.

Bret | 5:26 p.m. June 10, 2009

Stop your whining there are thousands of police officers and Firefighters that are also going with out raises yet we wake up and go to work because that is our duty.

unhappy teacher | 2:14 a.m. June 11, 2009

@ bret
Most teachers hold higher degrees and deserve to be paid more. Police officers usually only hold associates. Some don't even have degrees.

unhappy teacher | 2:38 a.m. June 11, 2009

@ crazy teaching is a "real job" where I am work full-time, attend school full-time, do extra work without pay, raise my children, do the laundry, the shopping, paint the kitchen, have a church job. Sometimes I am grading papers, doing homework, and planning lessons while I am doing all of the above.
@ re: re: stop your whining insurance and taxes take almost half of my pay. It is required that teachers take classes to get their licenses renewed. No classes, no pay raises...like that matters now. Doctors and lawyers take out student loans. Is funding an education exclusive to them? Also, teachers spend much of their own money on their students. The ones that don't usually aren't willing to go the extra mile for their students.

Anonymous | 9:10 a.m. June 11, 2009

Considering the way that people are talking about teachers on this board it's no wonder many students don't respect us. I can stand not getting a step raise but the lanes are directly related to training completed-many times out of our own pockets. I'm sure if your company let you take additional training at your own expense and you expected to get a pay raise at the end of said training you'd be overjoyed to find out that it wasn't funded because there just wasn't any money. Before you start blaming teachers maybe you should think for a minute about the fact that teachers taught you how to read and write so you could do your job.
Anyone who wants to say that teaching is not a real job or that it's cushy or whatever should spend some time working with kids.
Teachers are professionals who hold degrees, many of which are advanced degrees. Maybe if you would show teachers some respect and stop blaming teachers for all of our societies problems teachers might be a bit more satisfied with the low pay and high work load!

Real Deal | 10:33 a.m. June 11, 2009

RE:unhappy teachaer | 11:55 a.m. June 10, 2009

Wow a teacher that can't even spell teacher and whose sentence structure is pathetic.

Please don't post here claiming to be a teacher it gives the rest of us a bad name (it's already bad enough).

Proud Mary | 10:50 a.m. June 11, 2009

RE:No Money | 11:51 p.m. June 9, 2009

Then go back to school!!

Another secretary wanting to call the shots.

Which by the way is another major problem with education.

Remember your roll is to facilitate. If you want to educate and critize teachers (whom without you would not even have a job). Then since it is so easy, go get a degree!!

Oh Please | 11:26 a.m. June 11, 2009

What? Teachers expecting to be paid?

Don't back down | 2:05 p.m. June 11, 2009

I graduated in 2007, my starting salary at an accounting firm in South Jordan was $34,000 per year. I work as an exempt employee. This is a nice way of saying I don't get paid overtime. I work, typically 50 hours or more per week. I get 10 days of vacation a year, I accrue 12 sick days a year, and 11 holidays a year. In all, that's 33 days off a year if I use what I earn. That means I work about 2,300 hours per year for $34k that is $14.78 with a college degree.

Say a teacher is earning $29,000 and is working 10 hour days for the 180 days they are actually working. That is 1,800 hours per year at $29k, that is 16.11 per hour and that doesn't count any days off for sick or professional days.

So stop stinking complaining. Accept the increase or move on to someone who wants to pay you more. Your job is no more important than mine. Nor was your education any better (in fact you have less credit hours necessary to graduate)

Teacher | 3:29 p.m. June 11, 2009

I have worked my tail end off to get to the next lane change. I have 2 hours to go to get my master's + 30 and it's taken away. What a joke! This somehow makes me think of the old practice of bait and switch. Trick teachers into spending their money and time with a promise of compensation that's not kept!

Genius: Split district into 2 | 4:16 p.m. June 11, 2009

Another piece of evidence that the legislative bodies that pushed this split did not think it through carefully. The teachers paid the price.

Walk away! | 4:34 p.m. June 11, 2009

I spent four years teaching, and through the experience I have come to see how difficult and thankless the job is. I am now pursuing a career in engineering. I will spend work 40 hour weeks instead of 60 and get paid triple, and that's just my starting salary. You get what you pay for, and if we are going to scrimp on teacher salary, then we are going to see a serious decline in the quality of our teacher. If this really is all about the kids, then we as parents and citizens should take some of that financial burden on our shoulders, and not expect our teachers to be carrying all the weight.

I wish everyone could have the experience of being a teacher. You just don't understand until you are in their shoes. You can all argue about then being selfish or not deserving of better pay. The fact of the matter is, the good ones will leave the profession or at least this state. I regularly warn anyone looking at a career in teaching about the long hours, terrible pay, and thankless attitude of parents. If you want great teachers, pay for them!!!!

Fallin Hero | 5:53 p.m. June 11, 2009

RE: Bret | 5:26 p.m. June 10, 2009

What you fail to tell people is that when forefighters and police officers can earn comp time or overtime.

Teachers get nothing...got it tough guy!!!

NO NAME | 5:59 p.m. June 11, 2009

Why is the PR girl in the new district being paid 100K while having never worked in education.

I can see why teachers are frustrated!!

Orphan Annie | 8:16 p.m. June 11, 2009

RE: Walk away! | 4:34 p.m. June 11, 2009

Finally, someone who gets it!!

Thank You!

Walk | 8:55 p.m. June 11, 2009

The JEA has a very low membership if teachers dont join together then they can't get decent representation. They should walk!

MJH79 | 11:28 a.m. June 12, 2009

I taught 5th grade for two years in a Title I school in Virginia and was thinking of moving to Utah. However, I quickly found out that I would be going from a class size of 22 and a salary of $42k to a class size of 32 and a salary of $32K. That was Granite school district. I respectfully declined.

After serving 28 years in the military, I was surprised at the amount of work required after school and outside the classroom. Most teachers more than earn their pay.

Sense | 1:34 p.m. June 12, 2009

Teachers in Utah are set up to fail..it will never change!!

In other words get use to it!!!

John A. | 3:41 p.m. June 12, 2009

Teachers make a very good salary for working six months a year. I feel that any teacher who wants more money should teach school year-round. More work equals more money; problem solved, everybody happy.

STEVE-O | 5:38 p.m. June 12, 2009

The teachers of that district should ALL try to secure another job and NOT show up for work. Then the parents that are bawling about teacher complaints can take days off from work to watch their own children, or pay somebody else to take care for them. Then they can teach them to read, write, and live in society on their own!
Too many ungrateful parents treat school as a daycare rather than a place where their children are prepared for life. The salary is not enough... bottom line!

CCR | 6:05 p.m. June 12, 2009

RE:John A. | 3:41 p.m. June 12, 2009

The powers that be WILL NOT FUND SUCH AN IDEA!!

People just don't get it...teachers want to work but here in Utah no one is willing to pay them.

The public is grossly misinformed when it comes to education.

CaringNeightbor | 2:25 a.m. June 13, 2009

The public is misinformed yet so are the teachers. My mom is one of them and she recently spoke with a member of the School Board and now better understands the problem, and can see how there is not a good answer currently, they want the teachers to have options but there aren't many to give, so if you have ideas throw them out because I am sure anyone of them wants to be able to make it so that all employees, especially teachers are in agreement on the issues.

Reply to 'A Teacher' | 2:30 a.m. June 13, 2009

@A Teacher

170 or so classified employees are losing their jobs and you want everyone to share the burden of the situation. They are taking the brunt of it so teachers don't lose everything. The district doesn't want to fire a single teacher because they don't want to have to increase class sizes and make the teachers lives even more miserable. Imagine having 3-5 more students in your class, or not having a job.

@ Walk Away | 1:52 p.m. June 13, 2009

I agree with you, except the part where you think you will only work 40 hours per week. You see, teachers somehow think they are the only people in the world who are asked to work more than 40 hours per week, and only get paid for the 40.

In reality, the majority of working Americans work well above 40 hours per week, while getting paid just 40.

JimP | 6:26 a.m. June 14, 2009

I want to see a picture of the Jordan District Board whick has done this. I want to see what drunken sailors look like (no offense to sailors who drink) but they are spending money like drunken sailors. South Jordan City,recently tore down the old balloon type building they were using as shops for their vehicles. Expecting $90,000 for it as scrap, Jordan School District jumped in and gave the $150,000.00 for it and who know what they have spend laying afoundation and base for it at the west side bus yard. I can only imagine $50,000 or so...and since Jordan is now a NEW district, heaven forbid we have the old logos and such, so a newly designed logo was unveiled recently...a big blue shield with a capital J in the middle....and for this minor piece of computer artwork they paid $14,000.00 And I don't want to be guilty of spreading lies, but I understood the man who designed it is married to a female employee of the district.. And for this kind of crap my taxes are going to go up?

Unemployed Teacher | 10:56 a.m. July 16, 2009

At least you all have jobs. I just moved back here after living out of state and no one will even give me the time of day! Do you have any idea how worthless you feel when no one wants you? I thought I was a good teacher, I thought my students did well. Maybe it was all an illusion or maybe it is because I am too old.

seaburthow | 7:13 p.m. Aug. 31, 2009

provisions paper geological late emit various security radiation

wintertill | 4:17 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

low brightness efforts cannot wire

rawleyolin | 5:16 a.m. Sept. 12, 2009

events ongoing likely political agricultural part ongoing

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