Comments about ‘Graduation findings disputed’

The data is from 2006. Rates will start increasing in 2009. Students will want to graduate because Obama is president and He gives them hope.

Why is it necessary or even desirable that every person graduate from high school? A 100% graduation rate seems like a silly, unattainable goal. No matter how fine your program is you will never be able to convince people to do what they don't want to do. Provide as fine an educational opportunity as possible and let people choose to take advantage of it or not. Some people will inevitably choose not to participate. They must be allowed to fail. That is what liberty is all about.

We had a neighborhood girl who didn't find out until 3:00 AM on graduation day that she was graduating from Bingham High - because she had skipped and failed so many classes - neither she nor her parents nor anybody on the planet expected her to graduate. Her parents thought it a "blessing" that she was able to walk with her classmates. Apparently, it was more of a "gift" of the district to help prop up their graduation statistics. Unfortunately, it also sent a message to her and all the other kids who knew she didn't deserve to graduate: all that work you did didn't really matter.

It is precisely shananigans like this that drove my three children who are gifted teachers out of teaching and out of Utah. Our districts are too busy trying to boost the self esteem of a bunch of kids who have never done anything to deserve self esteem. Like Bill Gates said - if you want to build their self esteem, then make them work hard to accomplish something and let them EARN it. There will be kids who will fail. Good - maybe they'll learn early that failure is an option.

Brenda: Unfortunately Utah public schools do not care about every public school student. If your student does not fit the mold of conformity too schools crush that student's spirit as well as kill the passion to learn. Our public schools are a bureaucracy designed to protect itself too often at the expense of students. USOE is one of the greatest offenders.

Just because more people are graduating, and more people are taking "higher level math" don't be fooled, what we call higher level math, has been hollowed out, it is no longer the math that it was for generations.

Easy, medium and difficult problems have given way to mostly easy and some problems of medium difficulty.

We are putting up a front, but the reality is our behind is not what it used to be, and not in a good way either.

The math education community has dropped the ball, they are not doing their jobs properly.

Word problems in Algebra are now rare, Geometry is mostly an exercise in learning facts, combined with very simple problems, no longer are there many proofs or medium or difficult problems requireing reasoning.

Our future scientists and engineers will be less able as a result. I have tried to talk to officials of my school district to ask them to improve, but the math supervisors don't see any problem. They are younger than me, and came of age after this dumbing down has occurred, but change needs to happen or we will continue to decline as a nation.

The whole education system is just broken, like the Govt. Can you name me one master teacher? I sat in on my children's classes to see the quality of teaching going on. I was appalled. I went to see the admin with some concerns and was brushed off with curtness, how dare we expect them to do anything. Years and years of no accountability and throwing money at the mess equals exactly what we have.

Maybe, you can name me one master teacher in you district, maybe. Lets see how many educators pick apart my grammar, and not address the problem, it's a blog.

Yes I can name hundreds of master teachers.

I would agree that the system need some work. With the limited number of teachers though it is tough to deal with the problems.

Not only does they system need work through but also does the home life of the student. Students who are not attending or performing can track much of the problem to the place in which they live. If parents would step up with the kids, much more could get done.

The comments about math crack me up. Old people always think they had it tougher than the current crowd. My kids take Geometry in 8th grade. Yes there were proofs and yes there are plenty of word problems. My generation didn't take it until 10th grade.

My son will be taking calculus in 10th or 11th grade of high school. Something we didn't do until college.

Stop whining and support your kids.

By the way I am in my mid 40's.

Besides that, how can we dumb down math when we are using the same text books 40 years later due to the lowest education funding in the nation?

I wonder if these statistics take into account those that finish their diplomas in a more...unorthodox manner. In Alpine School District (I can't speak for others) East Shore High School offers to let the kids do packets at their own pace. Sometimes (in my experience - more often than not) that pace is slower than the rest. My daughter got her diploma the September AFTER her class graduated. Is that counted? How about the kids that temporarily dropped out due to pregnancy or whatever, but got an adult HS diploma or GED the next year? I would really like to see the breakdown, and where those kids are counted.
-HW

I work in a Utah public high school; one with a very good reputation, high AP test scores, many AP tests taken and very involved parents. There ARE master teachers at this school. There are also those teachers who simply work to get their paychecks. We know who they are, but the ability to move those teachers out is daunting. One teacher was finally moved TO ANOTHER SCHOOL IN THE DISTRICT, not out altogether. It took years of documentation of poor teaching.
Here is the problem - Administrators are former teachers who don't really know how to create a great product - a capable citizen. It's all about how do we treat the kids, how do they feel, are they having a good experience, and oh, by the way, let's keep our stats up. Put some people in high school principalships who know how to run a corporation, have more training in the competitive marketplace, and can work with those helicopter parents (hover and rescue) with too much power- leaders who stop bending to the unreasonable demands that hurt instead of help their little darlings.
Let's also adequately reward those teachers who do a good job!

I think the question was asking about naming master teachers not naming teachers with masters (degrees) designed to boost pay and typically nothing else.

I totally agree with the poster "Why?" - why do we need to graduate every student? The insinuation that increasing HS graduation rates to 100% is going to make the US more competitive globally is ridiculous. Who is going to flip my burgers? Who is going to sweep the halls? Who is going to trim the hedges at city hall? It may sound harsh, but seriously, not every job requires a PhD and if we try to send everybody to college, we're wasting tax payer money because somebody still has to do the menial work. Let the people who aren't interested in education do the jobs that don't require any, and let's focus our time and money on those that are eager to learn.

It's not the government's job to babysit students. The best thing we can do for education is get involved as parents.

To HelenWheels--those other alternatives are not counted in graduation rates because usually they are not graduates. Most people think that they can just go get a GED and it is the same. It is not. It is viewed differently by employers and most schools of higher education. This is a person that, for whatever reason, dropped out and then decided maybe that wasn't a good idea I can't get a job!! They GED tests for the very BASIC learning educational skills usually at a 9th grade level. As an employer, I will always go with a diplomaed individual over a GED. Don't be fooled--it is not the same.

I second Reality!

I second what Reality said!

I went to excellent public schools! Why? Because my parents and other parents in the community absolutely demanded a higher standard and only hired excellent teachers! To "to math whiners", when you took your classes is when YOU took them not "your generation".My high school prepared me and my fellow graduates(96% rate of which 90% graduated college)for college in the most complete ways possible. Yes,it cost a lot of money,but again the community demands and the support of the community created a situation where education was and still is preeminent! Your education system could be like California's where you pay unbelievable taxes but see 53% of all students FAIL to graduate! We are the parents now! Do we demand a better education for our children than what we received? Or do we have too much to do? If we do not demand the best we will not receive the best!While my sons were in school in Utah there was a laziness in the community and that was reflected in the administration. That laziness was reflected in the State Government! It still is! Politicians are scared of the Unions!Teachers are scared too!

To the anonymous poster at 4:54am - I hope you were being sarcastic or you are just sleep deprived. (Though I did note the capitalization of "He" as if he were deity. I know some of you feel that way.) The only thing likely to come out of the Obama administration is dumbing down the requirements so more people can "graduate" and then get a job in one of the many newly government-owned businesses in this country that will be supported by taxpayers and where there won't be any productivity or profit requirements. That environment should fit well with their new high school degree that also required little effort.

The mom was talking about a "real" diploma. Students are given additional time to earn their diploma and actually "graduate" from their home school if they finish their credits over the summer. It isn't a GED.

Some students do get their GED, but many also graduate late. Better late than never! This works great for kids who were sick or had to be out of school for an extended time.

of our high schools. Caused by many factors, including all mentioned in comments - sometimes it is poor parenting, often times it is terrible teaching, true that principals probably have the exact wrong training for the job.

But another big issue is that Utah can't determine what is CORE curriculum. Core should mean CORE, english, math, science, history. The rest MUST be placed in a "sub-core" category and students need to be given options. My son had to take fashion strategies, retailing, and two other ridiculous classes to meet his graduation requirements because they were the only "open" classes to meet the career and technical ed requirement.

If a student can read well, think critically, write well, do math at an Algebra 2 level and pass 3 history courses (American 1, 2 and World History) they should be able to choose their "other" coursework and graduate.

I couldn't support the silliness so we decided to go right to the college level and skip high school graduation. A good ACT score and a smart student and you don't need a hs diploma. Many are figuring this out and aren't willing to waste their kid's time.