Thank goodness this logic is getting through. How ever that does not mean
prevention of government healthcare for the poor.In fact a
government healthcare program that everyone could have access to would keep the
other insurances honest. The government would see the value in Quality
healthcare care and prevention programs.The government would be
interested in us being healthy because it would not cost them if we are healthy.
It would be a great start on monitoring the private healthcare industry which
is corrupt with ethic problems and Republican handouts.
The reason there is more money in health care's treatments than there is in it's
prevention is because the health care industry exists, for the most part, to
treat ill people. Whoever said it was responsible to make sure people live
healthily? Prevention responsibilities belong to individuals themselves.
How do you get people to just walk 30 minutes a day and eat 5 servings of fruit
and vegetables a day? That will add about 14 years to your life. A fish or two
a week and red meat maximum once a week. This is the prevention that works.
Most Americans favor prevention only for OTHER people.But when it
comes to their own health care, they want the best their money can buy.
As with so many things, the core problem is entitlement, laziness, and greed.
Americans feel entitled to health care, are too greedy to pay for it themselves
(but manage a host of other "necessities" like cell-phones, cable TV, Nintendo
DS, etc.), and too lazy to maintain their good health.ANY government
program will only exacerbate the situation.But, we all seem too
stupid to realize this, so, let's let China continue to pay for our gluttony and
we'll just saddle our children and grandchildren with the responsibility of
paying the piper.
I think most of you miss the point. I actually work in the health care industry,
and the biggest problem is the Government. Costs could be reduced a great deal
if physicians didn't have to use defensive medicine to protect themselves from
lawsuits. Belgie is correct, people buy motorhomes, cell phones, ATV's,
expensive cars and homes, but won't pay for health care. The government can't
even run the post office, or GM, and you expect better health care with a
government run program. GET REAL!!!!!
RE: Belgie and RP,Have either of you had a weight problem? If not, you're
ignorant, your criticisms aren't constructive and criticism without construction
is judmental, and harmful! The recommendation of 2,000 calories a day is wrong.
There needs to be a list of calorie intake per height, age, weight, active, and
inactive. I've lost 80 pounds (postdate) by eating 1200 calories for my 5'4"
height. In order to stay a decent weight, I'll have to count calories the rest
of my life. Weight Watchers works-they count calories by a point system. When
I was single and extremely active, able to have a support system of guys,
roommates, etc. I exercised daily. I got married, my support gone and I ended
up living in an area where I was frightened to go out by myself. Husband worked
all the time, responsibilities in the home and elsewhere doubled. I wasn't
caring for myself anymore, and now I had an overwhelming learning curve. We
couldn't afford the expensive exercise equipment. My diet didn't change,
exercise did. To my surprise, I fattened! Constructive critics buy equipment,
become exercise buddies, and don't criticize.
"...the core problem is entitlement, laziness, and greed..."Actually, the core problem is with people like you, who have no ability to see
the larger picture, and use only your personal experiences in dictating what you
think is correct. Here's the reality check. 60% of bankruptcies are
due to medical bills, and 75% of those bankruptcies had medical insurance but
were still overwhelmed by the costs (American Journal of Medicine). These aren't
entitled, lazy or greedy people! They are hard working, tax paying Americans
who were financially destroyed due to a medical condition in the family. Yet you
would label them as leeches on the system. The irony is that unless you are
infinitely wealthy, or already covered by some government program, you also are
only a medical emergency away from a similar fate and label.There
are many countries who do health care more effectively and less expensively,
while covering ALL their citizens. Failure to examine and adopt a better,
cheaper system puts the US at an economic disadvantage, and amounts to nothing
more than nationalistic hubris.
Well, Woody and Belgie have it right. The people who cry the loudest for
preventative care being taught or forced on every one, cannot work unless there
is incentive. If you want preventative (By the way AGREE preventative does cost
a lot in some cases more that insurance.) then define those things that can be
prevented and let the insurance companies exclude treatment for those
conditions, if you aren't doing your preventative, then you don't get coverage
for it. If the people using the health care system don't have "skin in the
game" then they don't and won't take care of preventative issues. Most of you
don't take your cars in for full diagnostics and tests when it is running fine,
and most of you don't go to the doctor, unless there is a problem, that is
unless someone else is paying for your checkups. In all the health reform in
Utah and US every one is bellying up to the trough to get their share of the
freebies. None are saying Hey I am willing to pay for that, let the other guy
Wow where did that come from Criticize?
Re: criticize constructively - You're right. I've never had a weight problem.
But, I still drag myself out to run 3-4 times a week to maintain my fitness (no
coaches, buddies, or expensive exercise equipment required). I also try to make
good decisions about what I eat.Everybody has problems. Some are
just more visible than others. I don't see why a predisposition to obesity is
any more of a societal problem than low IQ or just plain laziness.I'm fine with programs to educate people. In fact, I'm all for them. I also
enjoy helping my neighbors and providing support when they need it. If you
happen to live in the Portland area, I'd love to go for a run with you.But, I'm adamantly opposed to a nanny-state, where all the hard decisions are
made for us.
Have you ever tried to count calories? It's hell and it's not sustainable. So,
I'm currently trying to change my list of recipes and try that. People aren't
always willing to share their healthy recipes either. So, unless you're willing
to share your recipes, keep your ignorance to yourself. Also, getting out for
30 min. a day isn't easy either when you're already running faster than you have
strength. I think weight is a problem too when you're too responsible and won't
let things go. It needs to be a priority to prevent weight additions, but then
people need to never visit, never be critical of ones home without being willing
to help clean it, weed it, or otherwise fork out money to help maintain it.
Watch children so they can exercise! Never sign up to bring desserts unless
it's fruit, never bring sweets to peoples homes with weight problems, never keep
it out so that a person with a weight problem doesn't have to suffer trying to
not eat it. Any weakness/problem has been given to strengthen them. Don't give
up, find a way!
"But, I'm adamantly opposed to a nanny-state, where all the hard decisions are
made for us."Do you beling to a religion that is essentially a
"nanny church" where all the hard decisions are made for you?Just
Re: to Belgie | 4:29Well, you're close, but as usual, the statistics
are deceiving. I think you're referring to the Harvard study, which said 50% of
bankruptcies were caused by "illness and medical bills".Of those
50%, 75% of the people did have insurance, but 38% lost their coverage because
they could pay for it. Besides the medical bills, I'm sure than general
irresponsibility had a lot do to with it. People should plan for at least one
disastrous event in their lives.Reports like the one you cite serve
themselves if they can make alarming and sensationalize claims. I read last
month that 20% of Utah children are hungry, which is crap, unless you count
teenagers because they're always hungry.Look around you. How many
people have 3 months salary in the bank? How many people have disability
insurance? How many people have a boat, RV, iPhone, Sony PS3, 3000 sqft home,
new cars, etc. It's incredible to see where our priorities are.And,
I do have a right to get mad and criticize. I'm paying for your medical bills.
Before I retired I regularly worked out during my lunch hour during which time I
walked past the snack bar where fat people ate their calorie rich lunches and
complained about how they couldn't loose weight and blamed their problem on
"heredity." Since retiring, if I stop exercising regulary and am not careful
with my diet, I gain weight. Then I have to loose it by exercising and watching
my diet. It's as simple as that.I would be interested in a
government assisted health insurance program in which the individual or family
would be responsible for a reasonable deductable amount and insurance or
government would pay for catastrophic costs only (deductable based on the person
or family's income). But I would have a problem if the catastrophic costs paid
for by the government were because of the recipient's drug or tobacco or alcohol
abuse. Or because of gluttony or sexual promiscuity or other health issues in
which the person placed themselves at risk.I also would like to see
tax sheltered health savings accounts. But liberals hate that idea.
We have usually paid more in premiums than we have used, being generally healthy
people. One family member is overweight and has a pacemaker. Everyone else does
routine preventive checks, etc. Counting the premium our employers have paid on
our behalf, insurance companies have made plenty on our family, since our out of
pocket would typically be far less than the full premiums charged by insurance
companies.I'd love to have some of that coverage pay more (instead
of offer minimal contracted discounts) for health education, customized diet and
lifestyle education (everyone knows about the food pyramid and 30 minutes 3x a
week general guidelines), and mental wellness education. Maybe it would help
motivate our struggling, overwhelmed family member to think less and do more.We're not pros, but we do the best we can.
Hey, Belgie, guess what? Lost 10 pounds in Norway in 5 months, and didn't need
to drag myself out to do it. Why? No need for a car, so a person walks
constantly. How and why? First, awesome public transportation, run by the
government. No sprawl -like America, especially the west - so everything you
need is, guess what, within walking distance. Again, no sprawl, so hiking
mountains was, guess what, within walking distance, and you didn't have to worry
about being in someone's backyard. And the attitude of the people there was to
be in nature, not to "drag" themselves out for a run. And I mean all the people
there, the old and young. Aside from a mere handful of people, the only ones
that were overweight were, guess what, Americans, and the occasional tourist.
Guess what? Norway has a government-run - ah, "nanny-state" healthcare system,
and it works beautifully and cheaply. Americans are too hung up on drill here,
drill now, can't walk a block to the grocery store to ever prevent most
illnesses caused from being overweight. Can't imagine what the next generation
will be like.
What a smug individual. You place yourself on a pedestal as if you
alone support the uninsured, when in all likelyhood, you don't even pay your
medical bills. Heaven help you if you actually have a catastrophic medical
issue in your family. No amount of insurance or savings will help you if you hit
your policy's maximum coverage. And no provider would touch you after that. 3
months savings equates to one night in intensive care.Spend a day at
Primary Children hospital. It might give you some perspective.
re: xscribe: I think you hit the nail on the head, perhaps without recognizing
it. It isn't likely the gov't run "nanny-state" healthcare has much to do with
those outcomes: diet and exercise is clearly the reason. Any system where
people eat/exercise to keep themselves healthy is going to cost less than one,
like we have, that is focused on trying to fix people after they become sick,
even though a significant portion of that disease burden is preventable. But
having a gov't run health care system will not fix that problem, or even affect
it. Switching to a gov't program will just change our current problems to
different ones, not solve them. Personally, I think we will dislike the new
problems worse than the ones we currently have.
You say we will dislike the new problems with a gov't run health care system
worse than the problems we currently have. What is worse than having no health
care or insurance at all?
Does anyone else wonder why health care cost so much? I believe it is because
50% is subsidized through medicare and medicare. If I wasn't an engineer but
rather a doctor, I would charge however much people are willing to pay. In our
current situation they can charge anything they want because 50%!!! will be
payed from deep government pockets. (In other words our childrens and
grandchildrens future incomes) If there was no subsidized health
care then doctors would have to compete for what others are willing and able to
pay just like any other market. Its simple folks. Its time we
elected government representatives who can actually balance a budget, perform
the math that would help them understand decisions and elect those who
understand who they are working for!!
We all have a right to life. Not just the rich americans. It is time we have
insurance for all, whether or not they have a job... How many us have jobs
anyway in this economy?The majority of Americans are without
insurance and its time the government cared about our healthcare instead of the
auto industry.Time for results is now. Stop the greed. Focus on
Balancing a budget would be nice. One of the many ways would be to have a
healthy nation.Unfortunately the healthcare industry is corrupt with
ethic problems. The government has turned a blind eye because of the payouts
to our senators and representatives to look the other way.Time to
fix it is now! Take over it and clean it up.
Medicare is the one of the worst payers in medicine. They set the fee schedules
and pay what they want. Many physician groups opt out of Medicare because a
practice full of medicare patients barley pays the overhead. The quality of
your health care will just as likely decrease in a Government run system.
To all of you who want a government-run system...the government now has 36
trillion dollars (yes, trillion with a "T") in future unfunded liabilities. And
you want to tell me Medicare is a great system? Obamacare will add several
trillions over the next 10 years. I only have one child and one grandchild and
am not excited at their future life prospects. You don't think
there will be rationing of care? How will the same number of docs take care of
an additional 47 million patients, who, because health care will now be cheap
(govt subsidized) will run to the doc every time they have a runny nose? The
only way will be to ration the care. And then you'll have a situation like my
fist cousin in a western European socialized medicine country who wasn't sent
for an MRI for 18 mos because the governor of the area decreed that one MRI
facility for a population of 400,000 was all they can afford. She died of lung
cancer. She had experienced excruciating pains in her arm and back for nearly 2
years before the MRI. Physical Therapy was obviously not working.
People would be more interested in prevention if they paid their own cost for
healthcare. As long as insurance has low deductibles and copays people will not
take responsibility for their health. Insurance does not mean healthcare. If you
pay your own costs you take better care of yourself.
The free enterprise system could have gone a long way towards solving the
problem we now face. We have a shortage of doctors in this country and an
excess of lawyers. Lawyers are low cost up front in terms of tax dollars spent
on their education but very expensive to maintain with costs of $700,000 per
year for their support system of courts etc. Doctors are expensive up front in
terms of their education but with more doctors there would be actual competition
and some of the rapidly increasing fees would start to come down in time. Fewer law schools and more medical schools could lead eventually to a
situation where you had a shortage of lawyers and an excess number of
All you people who claim that some relative couldn't get care in (insert your
favorite country here) because that government had a State run health care crack
me up. If there is such a backlog for MRI's why hasn't some enterprising person
bought a machine and started scanning people for cash? You can have a
government health care system, and private health care both exist at the same
time. I live in Japan and that is exactly what we have here. With the
government health care (for which I do pay a premium, although not near the
premiums that I was paying in Utah), I can go to the local hospital and get
treated. I don't need to worry about being bankrupt if I get cancer, etc. I am
also free to purchase additional insurance coverage if I so desire from any
number of private insurance companies. I will always have the ability to pay
that premium and receive coverage. The government insurance will not drop me if
I make a claim that ends up costing them.
To all of you that want private (market run insurance) I hope one day you have
some real medical catastrophe so that you get the personal experience of dealing
with the US insurance companies when you make a claim that costs more than a
regular doctor visit. When the company finds some reason to drop you, and no
one else will pick you up because you are "high risk" I imagine you will start
to sing a different tune.The reason the US system is so screwed up
has been described by other posters. Americans feel entitled to everything.
They sue everyone for any stupid thing. The juries award crazy settlements
causing the need for outrageous liability insurance costs to the health care
providers. That cost then gets passed on to the insurance companies who pass it
back to the taxpayer/worker/company, etc. It's a vicious cycle that will only
stop when Americans stop being so greedy and self centered and start worrying
about someone other than themselves.
To make preventive care a success, you have to change the behavior of those who
have put themselves at risk for health problems. Good luck. If they had any
sense of control, they would be involved in preventive care now.Show
me a study where behavior has changed as a result and then I'll believe this
why not national insurance run through private companies like blue cross and
some of the other good companies, in compation for contracts
Lawsuits account for less than 1% of total health care costs. (And McDonald's
did not pay Stella all the money you read about in those chain letters.)President Obama is in the forefront of finding ways to REWARD preventive
actions.The very people who can least afford health insurance (the
poor), are also the people who complain if cigarette taxes go up. Over 80% of total lifetime medical costs occur in the last two years of one's
life. Once someone is deemed terminal, why do we give them other healthcare
(ie, lasik surgery, etc)? Yes, that happens. We "save"
ultra-premature babies by spending millions on them, then have to care for them
for the rest of their lives, because they have severe medical issues. Why? If
God creates life, and God had the baby emerge early, why don't we let God's will
prevail?We make NO sense...but we want it all.
Give a tax deduction for health club dues (after verifiable improvement), and
for annual physicals, bicycle events, 10k runs etc. You have to incent people
if you want positive outcomes. But wait, this won't work because then the
people who have self-caused health problems will protest, just like they do with
welfare reductions, social security, low income housing, everything else.
Punish the people who are doing well, reward those who don't.So just like
when I am successful I pay more taxes, when I keep myself healthy, I'll be
punished with an increase in healthcare costs that I don't have.
Belgie, I have a no frills lifestyle. No gadgets, but I still cannot afford
healthcare. What am I doing wrong? I'm not asking for a handout, just for
something that I can afford.National, I don't have a problem with
people getting a profit or making money. But why are we paying CEOs of these
companies millions when they can't even come up with an affordable product? It
seems like we reward incompetence. That is why having a private company
administer a national plan will not work.
Government is a thing, it has no capacity for love or compassion, nor does Government have anything of it's own to give,it can take
away from one and give to another.but if you give it power it will
control things and people, that is a certainty,which means
what you are doing is gieig it the power to decide who gets care and who
doesn't,which it must do to control costs.MUch better is
to leave life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to the people,Where you will always have TRUE freedom.
Nowchange: Oh, I see. Since government is a THING it can't have compassion.
Unlike our oh-so-compassionate warm and fuzzy, warm hearted health insurance
companies. They're so busy making big profits that they even hire people to
find out where they can KEEP from paying for your health care--though they have
no problem accepting your monthly premiums of course. And some of your unhonored
premiums wind up as political payoffs to keep those profits growing. If our
current system was working, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Stop any
stranger on the street and ask for his or her health care horror story. I assure
you, s/he'll have one. Freedom? Yeah, freedom to be ripped off by greedy
insurance companies, for they are the ones who are currently making the
decisions about whether you get needed health care. And if they can save money
on denying you medical procedures, they will.