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Gay-rights activist calls for D.C. march
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re: Anonymous at 12:57 | 1:25 p.m. June 10, 2009
My reasoning is very simple: two people who practice homosexuality together
cannot produce children.
In fact, my reasoning is so simple, it could be explained to a child like this: a daddy and a daddy, or a mommy and a mommy can't have a baby. Only a daddy and a mommy can have a baby.
In fact, my reasoning is so simple, it could be explained to a child like this: a daddy and a daddy, or a mommy and a mommy can't have a baby. Only a daddy and a mommy can have a baby.
Response to Anonymous | 1:27 p.m. June 10, 2009
Anonymous | 12:08 p.m. June 10, 2009
"Incest is illegal. Homosexuality is not. There is the difference."
The original point was that marriage should not be granted just because it does not affect other parties who are not directly involved. So really there is no difference between marriage between two people of the same gender or whether they are related.
So the arguement that gays should get married because it does not harm someone else is a pointless arguement.
"Incest is illegal. Homosexuality is not. There is the difference."
The original point was that marriage should not be granted just because it does not affect other parties who are not directly involved. So really there is no difference between marriage between two people of the same gender or whether they are related.
So the arguement that gays should get married because it does not harm someone else is a pointless arguement.
Comments continue below
SouthBound | 1:32 p.m. June 10, 2009
Anonymous | 12:10 p.m. June 10, 2009
"Why shouldn't people act upon their homosexuality if it does not harm anyone?"
Why shouldn't we allow polygamy because it does not harm someone? Why shouldn't we allow an 18 year old and 17 year old to have intercourse because it doesn't harm someone? Why shouldn't we allow people in Utah to fish while on horseback (an actual law) because it doesn't harm someone?
Do us a favor and make a point please...
"Why shouldn't people act upon their homosexuality if it does not harm anyone?"
Why shouldn't we allow polygamy because it does not harm someone? Why shouldn't we allow an 18 year old and 17 year old to have intercourse because it doesn't harm someone? Why shouldn't we allow people in Utah to fish while on horseback (an actual law) because it doesn't harm someone?
Do us a favor and make a point please...
Response to Anon. | 1:38 p.m. June 10, 2009
"Incest is illegal. Homosexuality is not. There is the difference."
Homosexuality was once illegal and now they want to recognized in marriage. So you are right, there is a difference....for now. Toot! Toot! The Permissiveness Train is leaving the station. All aboard because anything goes!
Homosexuality was once illegal and now they want to recognized in marriage. So you are right, there is a difference....for now. Toot! Toot! The Permissiveness Train is leaving the station. All aboard because anything goes!
Response to Anonymous | 1:47 p.m. June 10, 2009
Anonymous | 12:10 p.m. June 10, 2009
So are you saying that actions by others that do not harm other people is the basis for making something legal? Interesting notion, however dangerous.
So are you saying that actions by others that do not harm other people is the basis for making something legal? Interesting notion, however dangerous.
Response to Gay vs. Polygamy | 2:00 p.m. June 10, 2009
Gay vs. Polygamy | 3:54 p.m. June 9, 2009
And there are no complex estate issues today? I see no difference.
And there are no complex estate issues today? I see no difference.
to re: anonymous at 9:02 | 12:34 | 2:22 p.m. June 10, 2009
["Homosexuality hurts society because it decreases population
growth."]
["Without significant population increase, we are all in serious trouble"]
what? that's the stupidest thing I've heard anyone say on here. There are too many people and too much homelessness already.
your argument is ridiculous.
["Without significant population increase, we are all in serious trouble"]
what? that's the stupidest thing I've heard anyone say on here. There are too many people and too much homelessness already.
your argument is ridiculous.
re - Wow and How | 12:59 p.m | 2:26 p.m. June 10, 2009
and you clowns have nothing to say except ridiculous religious rhetoric from old
fairy tales. And no one cares who you "want to hurt" since
you're just a wannabe that likes to rant. Why don't you be, you know,
a little more intelligent?
Can't wait to see your deer-in-the-headlights look when gay marriage is legal in your state. It will be just TOO MUCH FUN!!
Can't wait to see your deer-in-the-headlights look when gay marriage is legal in your state. It will be just TOO MUCH FUN!!
Anonymous | 3:28 p.m. June 10, 2009
"golf, What Merriam-Webster has to say may not matter but it does matter
how Black's Law Dictionary handles it. Changing a legal definition has far
reaching consequences."
I was married. I tried to fit into that box that everyone said would make me happy.
For me, it was not until I allowed my attraction (after my marriage was over, btw) to another gay person to be let out that all the pieces fit together for me. It was not anything sexual, but all the sharp angles that I had that didn't fit into the box were completely covered with a gay relationship. We have been together for 17 years and I do not question whether or not I would be happier trying to be something that I am not.
I tried both. I know what makes me happier.
I was married. I tried to fit into that box that everyone said would make me happy.
For me, it was not until I allowed my attraction (after my marriage was over, btw) to another gay person to be let out that all the pieces fit together for me. It was not anything sexual, but all the sharp angles that I had that didn't fit into the box were completely covered with a gay relationship. We have been together for 17 years and I do not question whether or not I would be happier trying to be something that I am not.
I tried both. I know what makes me happier.
what? | 3:39 p.m. June 10, 2009
to - Response to Anonymous | 1:27 p.m
["The original point was that marriage should not be granted just because it does not affect other parties who are not directly involved. So really there is no difference between marriage between two people of the same gender or whether they are related"]
related people have deformed babies. what don't you get? it endangers children. and no difference between gay or related? wow - you need some help.
to - re: Anonymous at 12:57 | 1:25 p.m
["My reasoning is very simple: two people who practice homosexuality together cannot produce children. In fact, my reasoning is so simple, it could be explained to a child like this: a daddy and a daddy, or a mommy and a mommy can't have a baby. Only a daddy and a mommy can have a baby"]
so what if they can't produce children? there are too many anyway. how does that affect marriage? Since when is marriage about children? have you forgotten what century you are in? Lots of parents aren't married and lots of married people have no children.
you all need to make some legitimate points.
["The original point was that marriage should not be granted just because it does not affect other parties who are not directly involved. So really there is no difference between marriage between two people of the same gender or whether they are related"]
related people have deformed babies. what don't you get? it endangers children. and no difference between gay or related? wow - you need some help.
to - re: Anonymous at 12:57 | 1:25 p.m
["My reasoning is very simple: two people who practice homosexuality together cannot produce children. In fact, my reasoning is so simple, it could be explained to a child like this: a daddy and a daddy, or a mommy and a mommy can't have a baby. Only a daddy and a mommy can have a baby"]
so what if they can't produce children? there are too many anyway. how does that affect marriage? Since when is marriage about children? have you forgotten what century you are in? Lots of parents aren't married and lots of married people have no children.
you all need to make some legitimate points.
huh? | 3:45 p.m. June 10, 2009
to - Response to Anonymous | 1:47 p.m
["So are you saying that actions by others that do not harm other people is the basis for making something legal? Interesting notion, however dangerous."]
no - they are saying that actions by others that don't harm anyone or anything should be legal. Dangerous? explain how. If no one and nothing is harmed, why shouldn't it be legal?
or do you just want everything you disagree with to be illegal?
["So are you saying that actions by others that do not harm other people is the basis for making something legal? Interesting notion, however dangerous."]
no - they are saying that actions by others that don't harm anyone or anything should be legal. Dangerous? explain how. If no one and nothing is harmed, why shouldn't it be legal?
or do you just want everything you disagree with to be illegal?
divorce | 3:47 p.m. June 10, 2009
to - Response to Gay vs. Polygamy | 2:00 p.m
["And there are no complex estate issues today? I see no difference"]
that's just because you're mormon and would like polygamy. But just a simple divorce would be unweildy at best. How do you protect the rights of the parties? besides, with mormon polygamy, you all like to dip into the kiddie pool and we can't have that....
["And there are no complex estate issues today? I see no difference"]
that's just because you're mormon and would like polygamy. But just a simple divorce would be unweildy at best. How do you protect the rights of the parties? besides, with mormon polygamy, you all like to dip into the kiddie pool and we can't have that....
Anonymous | 4:09 p.m. June 10, 2009
re: Anonymous at 12:57 | 1:25 p.m. June 10, 2009
"My reasoning is very simple: two people who practice homosexuality together cannot produce children.
In fact, my reasoning is so simple, it could be explained to a child like this: a daddy and a daddy, or a mommy and a mommy can't have a baby. Only a daddy and a mommy can have a baby."
And this relates to gay marriage how?
Do you have to be able to have children to marry legally? No. They don't even ask you any questions about your fertility or whether or not you plan on having children. It is a legal contract between two adults.
Banning gay marriage does nothing to further the population so that is a moot point.
Why, legally speaking, shouldn't two loving gays be able to enter into that same civil contract?
"My reasoning is very simple: two people who practice homosexuality together cannot produce children.
In fact, my reasoning is so simple, it could be explained to a child like this: a daddy and a daddy, or a mommy and a mommy can't have a baby. Only a daddy and a mommy can have a baby."
And this relates to gay marriage how?
Do you have to be able to have children to marry legally? No. They don't even ask you any questions about your fertility or whether or not you plan on having children. It is a legal contract between two adults.
Banning gay marriage does nothing to further the population so that is a moot point.
Why, legally speaking, shouldn't two loving gays be able to enter into that same civil contract?
I once was Mormon | 4:26 p.m. June 10, 2009
Yes. I guess my title just alienated 40% Salt Lake City. It amazes me now that
5 years ago I would have written about "sin" and offending God if we
allowed gay marriage, etc. etc. I would honestly like to know where in the New
Testament Jesus attacks homosexuality. Maybe it exists, but I am honestly
unaware of it. I think Denise is right - Jesus' message was of compassion
and understanding. The challenge is, that modern Mormon leaders have pronounced
homosexuality a sin, so what other options are there for Mormons than to believe
this? No one is asking Mormons to change their beliefs - for themselves. You
personally do not have to live gay lives or even be friends with any gay people.
No one is requiring this of you. But you ARE being asked to respect that not
EVERYONE believes Mormonism is God's one true church, and they wish to live
and worhip "how, where, and what they may". Many people do NOT
believe homosexuality is a sin. Many people do not believe eating pork is a
sin, or giving blood transfusions. We should be careful NOT to thrust our
religous beliefs on others not of our faith.
Not equal | 4:55 p.m. June 10, 2009
I am gay but i do not believe that gay rights can be equated with the civil
rights movement. first of all, more people died because of their color of their
skin in this country between 1492 to 2009. Millions of American Indians died and
Millions of African slaves die. Don't ever equate civil rights and gay
rights. Millions of people didn't die because they were gay. The gay rights
movement has just begun. Very few people have voluntarily died. Most of us gay
people are dying because of HIV and other STD's. We are killing ourselves.
T. J. | 5:11 p.m. June 10, 2009
America is THE LAND OF THE FREE. Freedom to practice any religion and be your
true self. We are a secular nation, not a Christian nation.
get it right | 5:26 p.m. June 10, 2009
the fact is, the followers of Jesus were a bunch of guys that always hung out
together and had few women.
do you REALLY think Jesus was against homosexuality? Think about it.
do you REALLY think Jesus was against homosexuality? Think about it.
wow - nice try | 5:31 p.m. June 10, 2009
to - Not equal | 4:55 p.m
nice try, mormon-boy. but your true colors are shining through.
and the gay movement is EXACTLY like the civil rights movement. it is a minority trying to get rights from an oppressive majority.
and I'm mormon. and most of us mormons are so brainwashed, we'll never understand that gay rights is the correct path. we are brain-damaging ourselves.
nice try, mormon-boy. but your true colors are shining through.
and the gay movement is EXACTLY like the civil rights movement. it is a minority trying to get rights from an oppressive majority.
and I'm mormon. and most of us mormons are so brainwashed, we'll never understand that gay rights is the correct path. we are brain-damaging ourselves.
Wow - what a poser | 12:33 a.m. June 11, 2009
Oh, how many posers are here pretending to be good members of the Church and
ridiculing the members, leaders and the Church in a vain attempt to make others
confused. If one is in full faith and fellowship they would never speak that way
and if one is a member and speaks that way they are not in full faith and
fellowship... Wolves in sheep's clothing so to speak. "...even of
your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things to draw away disciples
after them."
Not So TJ | 12:39 a.m. June 11, 2009
Mr Obama and you are wrong. This is a Christian nation though you secularists
try to deny that. Not only do Christians make up over 70% of the population, if
you make a little trip to DC, you will be surrounded by government buildings
with a multitude of inscriptions chiseled in the structures attesting to that
fact.
Civil Rights movement | 12:43 a.m. June 11, 2009
The gay rights movement can never stand up or be equal to the civil rights
movement. In 200 words or less, please explain how they are equal. Who's
the MLK of the gay rights movement? No one person can emulate what MLK did for
the minority people of your country. Mainly due to the fact that in some states
gay marriage is allowed, gay rights is about getting insurance coverage for both
partners and that's about it. Once this is accomplished, we gays will stop
our quest. It's kind of like wanting to consume a higher percentage of
alcohol. We can rant and rave about the percentage in our drinks but once this
happens, its no fun no more. We allgo to another state to do so. You don't
have to hang out in Utah to get your fix. Same with gay rights. We have the
right to be *gay*. I am gay and i'm happy. Gay Gay Gay. Get it? Gay? Or
gay.
Coretta | 8:13 a.m. June 11, 2009
Civil Rights movement
"The gay rights movement can never stand up or be equal to the civil rights movement."
May I quote Coretta Scott King:
""I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," Coretta Scott King. - Reuters, March 31, 1998.
"The gay rights movement can never stand up or be equal to the civil rights movement."
May I quote Coretta Scott King:
""I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," Coretta Scott King. - Reuters, March 31, 1998.
Anonymous | 8:19 a.m. June 11, 2009
" if you make a little trip to DC, you will be surrounded by government
buildings with a multitude of inscriptions chiseled in the structures attesting
to that fact."
Please, could you name a few?
This little e-mail went aroung a while ago stating that all these christian symbols were all over our government buildings. I guess you didn't see the one that proved that all of those were wrong? Look it up.
ie: there is a 1-10 in the Supreme Court, referring to the 10 commandments. Really, it is a reminder of the first 10 amendments to the constitution or the bill of rights. This is silly.
Please, could you name a few?
This little e-mail went aroung a while ago stating that all these christian symbols were all over our government buildings. I guess you didn't see the one that proved that all of those were wrong? Look it up.
ie: there is a 1-10 in the Supreme Court, referring to the 10 commandments. Really, it is a reminder of the first 10 amendments to the constitution or the bill of rights. This is silly.
Thats Funny | 8:46 a.m. June 11, 2009
The gay movement being exactly like the civil rights movement.
Hahahahahahahaha. You people are delusional. How is trying to legitimize an
immoral lifestyle CHOICE the same as getting equal rights for a race of people?
The blacks did not have the same rights of whites and they fought to get those
rights. Gays already have the same rights as everyone else. They can marry a
person of the opposite gender if they wish.
Anonymous | 9:34 a.m. June 11, 2009
"Gays already have the same rights as everyone else. They can marry a
person of the opposite gender if they wish."
So if we pass a law that this country is Christian and everyone has the right to worship in any christian church - as long as it is Roman Catholic, would you say that we all have the same rights?
We all can worship. We all can express our love of God if we wish. We just have to do it the way that the majority of Americans want us to. OK with you, since religion is a choice?
This is not hard to understand if you use your heart and mind instead of spouting the same trite things that you have heard over and over.
So if we pass a law that this country is Christian and everyone has the right to worship in any christian church - as long as it is Roman Catholic, would you say that we all have the same rights?
We all can worship. We all can express our love of God if we wish. We just have to do it the way that the majority of Americans want us to. OK with you, since religion is a choice?
This is not hard to understand if you use your heart and mind instead of spouting the same trite things that you have heard over and over.
Born That Way? | 9:47 a.m. June 11, 2009
I don't think there is conclusive proof that people are "born" to
live a homosexual life. If you have those tendencies, you can choose to change.
That is your choice. Sexuality is like any appetite, you feed it the wrong
food and it can take a life of its own.
Anonymous Attitude | 9:54 a.m. June 11, 2009
"This is not hard to understand if you use your heart and mind instead of
spouting the same trite things that you have heard over and over."
Gee, can you make commments without getting personal? Your analogy does not relate to what this person was saying. He/She was not saying you have to be "Roman Catholic" or get married to someone of the opposite gender.
Gee, can you make commments without getting personal? Your analogy does not relate to what this person was saying. He/She was not saying you have to be "Roman Catholic" or get married to someone of the opposite gender.
re - Thats Funny | 8:46 a.m | 9:58 a.m. June 11, 2009
["Hahahahahahahaha. You people are delusional. How is trying to legitimize
an immoral lifestyle CHOICE the same as getting equal rights for a race of
people?"]
well, it is the same in that bigoted people (look in the mirror, bud) are trying to impose their will on a minority by denying them the same rights as the majority hold....
what don't you get?
and only you say it is immoral, since you read it in some old book. Welcome to the 21st century. You can put away your Temperance League signs now.
and whay if we said to you - you can only worship in a Roman Catholic church even though you're mormon. Why would you complain? You would have the same rights as everyone else, you could worship in any Roman Catholic church that you wanted. Same argument as the ridiculous one you make.
try to think before you speak.
well, it is the same in that bigoted people (look in the mirror, bud) are trying to impose their will on a minority by denying them the same rights as the majority hold....
what don't you get?
and only you say it is immoral, since you read it in some old book. Welcome to the 21st century. You can put away your Temperance League signs now.
and whay if we said to you - you can only worship in a Roman Catholic church even though you're mormon. Why would you complain? You would have the same rights as everyone else, you could worship in any Roman Catholic church that you wanted. Same argument as the ridiculous one you make.
try to think before you speak.
re - Born That Way? | 9:47 a.m | 10:08 a.m. June 11, 2009
what?
are you gay? obviously not. and you state "Sexuality is like any appetite" as if being gay is about sex. where on earth did you get that impression? is your heterosexual relationship about sex? I doubt it, especially if you're a mormon. Sex is 30 minutes a day if you're 19 yrs old!! Most gays getting married are in their 40s - sex is 10 minutes a week!
why do all you crazy people think gay marriage (or gayness in general) is about sex? it's about having a companion that you are comfortable with 24 hrs a day!
and why on earth would ANYONE choose to be gay (unless you live in N Hollywood, where everyone's gay)? Gays are everywhere, and they are ridiculed, beated, denied benefits, denied employment, etc. WHY WOULD ANYONE CHOOSE THAT?
jeez - you people are unbelievable. You need to start using your heads instead of some old book...
and by the way - Jesus hung with a bunch of guys and only a couple of women. Do you REALLY think he was against gays? has it not occurred to you that some of his closest friends were gay? think about that...
are you gay? obviously not. and you state "Sexuality is like any appetite" as if being gay is about sex. where on earth did you get that impression? is your heterosexual relationship about sex? I doubt it, especially if you're a mormon. Sex is 30 minutes a day if you're 19 yrs old!! Most gays getting married are in their 40s - sex is 10 minutes a week!
why do all you crazy people think gay marriage (or gayness in general) is about sex? it's about having a companion that you are comfortable with 24 hrs a day!
and why on earth would ANYONE choose to be gay (unless you live in N Hollywood, where everyone's gay)? Gays are everywhere, and they are ridiculed, beated, denied benefits, denied employment, etc. WHY WOULD ANYONE CHOOSE THAT?
jeez - you people are unbelievable. You need to start using your heads instead of some old book...
and by the way - Jesus hung with a bunch of guys and only a couple of women. Do you REALLY think he was against gays? has it not occurred to you that some of his closest friends were gay? think about that...
Response to 9:58 a.m | 10:14 a.m. June 11, 2009
"and whay if we said to you - you can only worship in a Roman Catholic
church even though you're mormon. Why would you complain?"
If the Church was somehow outlawed, which has happened in the past, we can still worship in our hearts what we believe. Adversity is what makes us stronger!
If the Church was somehow outlawed, which has happened in the past, we can still worship in our hearts what we believe. Adversity is what makes us stronger!
RE: 9:58 a.m. | 10:15 a.m. June 11, 2009
"well, it is the same in that bigoted people (look in the mirror, bud) are
trying to impose their will on a minority by denying them the same rights as the
majority hold...."
I'm sick of the LGBT community of imposing their will on the families that don't want to hear it!
For instance, a case reported by the Boston Globe on April 20, 2006. Here is a quote from the article: "In a controversy with a familiar ring, parents of a Lexington second-grader are protesting that their son's teacher read a fairy tale about gay marriage to the class without warning parents first."
Why is it acceptable for children, especially young children, be exposed to materials which their families don't agree with? Why does the LGBT force their lifestyle onto others?!
If I don't want my children to hear about certain topics in school, such as sex or homosexuality, then I should have the right to remove him from the classroom if those topics are being discussed.
Go Traditional Families!
I'm sick of the LGBT community of imposing their will on the families that don't want to hear it!
For instance, a case reported by the Boston Globe on April 20, 2006. Here is a quote from the article: "In a controversy with a familiar ring, parents of a Lexington second-grader are protesting that their son's teacher read a fairy tale about gay marriage to the class without warning parents first."
Why is it acceptable for children, especially young children, be exposed to materials which their families don't agree with? Why does the LGBT force their lifestyle onto others?!
If I don't want my children to hear about certain topics in school, such as sex or homosexuality, then I should have the right to remove him from the classroom if those topics are being discussed.
Go Traditional Families!
RE: Born That Way? | 9:47 a.m. | 10:19 a.m. June 11, 2009
Amen! Who forced a man to take another man as his partner? Who forced him to
commit homosexual activity in his bedroom? No one! He chose to perform those
activities.
Agency. The right to choose. Everyone has it. Some are tempted to rape, some are tempted to exercise daily, some are tempted to drink alcohol daily, some are tempted to be attracted to people of the same gender, but just because its a temptation, it doesn't mean you don't have a choice. It is up to you to choose to act on those temptations.
After all, we are all responsible for our choices.
Agency. The right to choose. Everyone has it. Some are tempted to rape, some are tempted to exercise daily, some are tempted to drink alcohol daily, some are tempted to be attracted to people of the same gender, but just because its a temptation, it doesn't mean you don't have a choice. It is up to you to choose to act on those temptations.
After all, we are all responsible for our choices.
Anonymous | 10:20 a.m. June 11, 2009
Born That Way?
"I don't think there is conclusive proof that people are "born" to live a homosexual life. If you have those tendencies, you can choose to change. That is your choice. Sexuality is like any appetite, you feed it the wrong food and it can take a life of its own."
I know that is what you believe. I know that it fits very well into your convictions, but it doesn't mesh with reality. BYU tried for decades to change the tendencies of gay student volunteers. Shock and chemical therapy were used along with weekly visits to bishops, daily prayers and fasting.
More students tried to harm themselves because it caused them so much agony that nothing was working, than had any change. I think the percentage of change was .04%!
Look it up if you don't believe me. That is why the brethern changed from trying to get gays married to telling them to remain celebate. That is a big change, isn't it?
"I don't think there is conclusive proof that people are "born" to live a homosexual life. If you have those tendencies, you can choose to change. That is your choice. Sexuality is like any appetite, you feed it the wrong food and it can take a life of its own."
I know that is what you believe. I know that it fits very well into your convictions, but it doesn't mesh with reality. BYU tried for decades to change the tendencies of gay student volunteers. Shock and chemical therapy were used along with weekly visits to bishops, daily prayers and fasting.
More students tried to harm themselves because it caused them so much agony that nothing was working, than had any change. I think the percentage of change was .04%!
Look it up if you don't believe me. That is why the brethern changed from trying to get gays married to telling them to remain celebate. That is a big change, isn't it?
Anonymous | 10:27 a.m. June 11, 2009
"If the Church was somehow outlawed, which has happened in the past, we can
still worship in our hearts what we believe. Adversity is what makes us
stronger!"
And so it is with gays. We can and do have marriages in our hearts. Adversity is what makes us stronger!
And so it is with gays. We can and do have marriages in our hearts. Adversity is what makes us stronger!
Response to 9:47 am. | 10:34 a.m. June 11, 2009
I don't know what "gay" is other than a broad social term
assigned to people who choose to live a lifestyle, but I do know that the
primary sexual organ is the brain which has nothing to do with the sexual
intercourse.
Appetites come in all shapes in sizes from eating, drinking, sexuality etc. Like any appetite, if one chooses to resist same-gender-attraction urges because they want to get married and have children they can choose to starve those urges so that they can be reset and realigned. People do it all the time and I know people who have done it. Obviously the choice has to come from them.
P.S. I am sorry that you had to bring Jesus into it. I didn't realize this was a religous debate.
Appetites come in all shapes in sizes from eating, drinking, sexuality etc. Like any appetite, if one chooses to resist same-gender-attraction urges because they want to get married and have children they can choose to starve those urges so that they can be reset and realigned. People do it all the time and I know people who have done it. Obviously the choice has to come from them.
P.S. I am sorry that you had to bring Jesus into it. I didn't realize this was a religous debate.
RE: 10:20 a.m. | 10:38 a.m. June 11, 2009
"it caused them so much agony that nothing was working, than had any
change. I think the percentage of change was .04%!"
You think the change was .04% ? You think? How about you get some real data before posting an ignorant post like that!
Ultimately everyone has a choice. That's a fact.
And studies have shown that most homosexual people admit that it is the environment which they are surrounded with which is the number 1 reason or stimulus on why they are gay. Environment, not what they were born with.
You think the change was .04% ? You think? How about you get some real data before posting an ignorant post like that!
Ultimately everyone has a choice. That's a fact.
And studies have shown that most homosexual people admit that it is the environment which they are surrounded with which is the number 1 reason or stimulus on why they are gay. Environment, not what they were born with.
Response to Anonymous 10:20 a.m | 10:40 a.m. June 11, 2009
I think you are basing your convictions on a narrow case study. Not all people
who have overcome same gender attraction have gone to BYU or have undergone
shock and chemical therapy. (Personally, I too don't believe in shock and
therapy. This is not about forcing people to do things.)
What you don't hear about is thousands of people who are able to "change" because they want to change no matter what their addiction, including same-sex attraction.
I think what is interesting is that people like you find this notion that a person can "change" a threat to your belief system yet ironically you berate others for their belief system. I guess in some people's minds, expecting tolerance from others only goes one way.
What you don't hear about is thousands of people who are able to "change" because they want to change no matter what their addiction, including same-sex attraction.
I think what is interesting is that people like you find this notion that a person can "change" a threat to your belief system yet ironically you berate others for their belief system. I guess in some people's minds, expecting tolerance from others only goes one way.
Adversity | 10:47 a.m. June 11, 2009
"And so it is with gays. We can and do have marriages in our hearts.
Adversity is what makes us stronger!"
I am glad Prop8 will allow you to become stronger.
I am glad Prop8 will allow you to become stronger.
Zoneseek | 10:50 a.m. June 11, 2009
I find it a little odd that the argument about homosexuals being born that
way-means that we are to celebrate that tendency rather than help.
To follow the same logic, would be to say that a family history of alcoholism should also be celebrated because that is just a genetic tendency. I can't help that in my family, so I might as well give in and drink. Destructive right? So why celebrate something that is obviously another weakness that we need to try to overcome? Beyond the religious reasons-which are good-the natural scientific order of the planet doesn't support homosexuality as far as I know. How would animals propagate their species?
Also-many gay/lesbian partners tend to act out the gender side they are missing. I think gay men often act more feminine because subconsciously they know something is missing from the natural order of parents. The same point is noticed among females who tend to look and act more like men. I am becoming more and more suprised that there isn't a scientific study of this interesting fact.
To follow the same logic, would be to say that a family history of alcoholism should also be celebrated because that is just a genetic tendency. I can't help that in my family, so I might as well give in and drink. Destructive right? So why celebrate something that is obviously another weakness that we need to try to overcome? Beyond the religious reasons-which are good-the natural scientific order of the planet doesn't support homosexuality as far as I know. How would animals propagate their species?
Also-many gay/lesbian partners tend to act out the gender side they are missing. I think gay men often act more feminine because subconsciously they know something is missing from the natural order of parents. The same point is noticed among females who tend to look and act more like men. I am becoming more and more suprised that there isn't a scientific study of this interesting fact.
Appetites and Change | 11:00 a.m. June 11, 2009
You may say I was "born that way" which may be true. You may have
been born with certain tendencies. But you make a choice when you feed these
urges with improper stimuli.
re re - Thats Funny | 8:46 a.m | 11:18 a.m. June 11, 2009
Ummm... I'm not a mormon. Do you think the only people that oppose
perversion are mormons? There are other decent people in this world you
know.
Why don't you think before you speak?
Why don't you think before you speak?
Anonymous | 11:30 a.m. June 11, 2009
re - Response to Anonymous 10:20 a.m | 10:40 a.m.
["What you don't hear about is thousands of people who are able to "change" because they want to change no matter what their addiction, including same-sex attraction"]
the biggest question is - why should they change? because you disagree with the choice? that's imposing your morals onto others that are not impacting you in the least. Why do you feel the need to do that? In other words - WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT THEY DO?
re - Zoneseek | 10:50 a.m
["I find it a little odd that the argument about homosexuals being born that way-means that we are to celebrate that tendency rather than help"]
no one is trying to celebrate. they are trying to gain acceptance and be given the same rights as everyone else. and they are gaining ground daily in this area.
["Beyond the religious reasons-which are good-the natural scientific order of the planet doesn't support homosexuality as far as I know. How would animals propagate their species?"]
the religious reason are ridiculous and do you really think 3% of people being gay will stop mankind?
Think!
["What you don't hear about is thousands of people who are able to "change" because they want to change no matter what their addiction, including same-sex attraction"]
the biggest question is - why should they change? because you disagree with the choice? that's imposing your morals onto others that are not impacting you in the least. Why do you feel the need to do that? In other words - WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT THEY DO?
re - Zoneseek | 10:50 a.m
["I find it a little odd that the argument about homosexuals being born that way-means that we are to celebrate that tendency rather than help"]
no one is trying to celebrate. they are trying to gain acceptance and be given the same rights as everyone else. and they are gaining ground daily in this area.
["Beyond the religious reasons-which are good-the natural scientific order of the planet doesn't support homosexuality as far as I know. How would animals propagate their species?"]
the religious reason are ridiculous and do you really think 3% of people being gay will stop mankind?
Think!
Why? | 11:30 a.m. June 11, 2009
Just curious. Why do gays have an obsession with traditional marriage?
Anonymous | 11:31 a.m. June 11, 2009
"You think the change was .04% ? You think? How about you get some real
data before posting an ignorant post like that! "
how about this:
"As a student volunteer, I worked in the BYU Psychology Department/Clinic-sponsored research studies and I can assure you that these electric-shock therapy experiments to try to cure homosexuality DID HAPPEN! I was a volunteer helping out with no less than 3 separate studies, each examining aspects of homosexuality, its origins, and its modifiability. The results of these studies were communicated to Salt Lake and the Brethren, and it is because the results indicated that homosexuality may be inborn and is extremely resistant to the most powerful forms of electro- and chemical- therapies that the Brethren have taken the official stand they have taken. Officially, same sex attraction is NOT a sin! Only homosexual behavior is considered sinful in the Church."
how about this:
"As a student volunteer, I worked in the BYU Psychology Department/Clinic-sponsored research studies and I can assure you that these electric-shock therapy experiments to try to cure homosexuality DID HAPPEN! I was a volunteer helping out with no less than 3 separate studies, each examining aspects of homosexuality, its origins, and its modifiability. The results of these studies were communicated to Salt Lake and the Brethren, and it is because the results indicated that homosexuality may be inborn and is extremely resistant to the most powerful forms of electro- and chemical- therapies that the Brethren have taken the official stand they have taken. Officially, same sex attraction is NOT a sin! Only homosexual behavior is considered sinful in the Church."
Anonymous | 11:34 a.m. June 11, 2009
So all you people who believe that it is just an appitite that we have nurtured,
do you believe that if we marry, we will then feed to correct appitite?
Is that why the leaders of the church have STOPPED telling gays to marry? Is that why they are now counselling them to just remain celebate? Is that why, even on the LDS web site, they state that some gays may NEVER overcome these tendencies in this life?
Well?...
Is that why the leaders of the church have STOPPED telling gays to marry? Is that why they are now counselling them to just remain celebate? Is that why, even on the LDS web site, they state that some gays may NEVER overcome these tendencies in this life?
Well?...
Rick | 11:46 a.m. June 11, 2009
Well, I believe I have read every post here (to the time of my post). I
don't care if gays get married. More power to you. However--the most
hateful, spiteful, belittling comments are made by those promoting the gay view
against others--particularly the mormons. This is how you practice tolerance?
And don't tell me, "Well, they don't, why should we".
That's a pretty weak reason, and doesn't speak very highly of what you
say you really believe (tolerance, acceptance, etc). Angering others by
name-calling, etc., will not remotely get them to see your points--and you do
have some points. But, do you HONESTLY believe the mormon church is EVER going
to change its stance on what they view as an absolute moral imperative? I'm
not mormon, but thru my post-grad studies can answer that question. Since your
rights don't come from the church, but from the people (government), you
need to present your case a bit more civilly so the individual MEMBERS will have
compassion and exercise tolerance via the voting booth. That CAN happen. But the
more you argue, the more push-back you'll get.
RE: 11:34 a.m. | 12:03 p.m. June 11, 2009
"Is that why, even on the LDS web site, they state that some gays may NEVER
overcome these tendencies in this life?"
1 Cor. 10:13 "but God is faithful, who will NOT suffer you to be TEMPTED above that ye are ABLE; but will with the temptation also make a way to ESCAPE, that ye may be able to bear it."
Summary: God will not not tempt any gay individual above which they are able to handle. They eventually have to choose to act on the temptation of same gender attraction.
1 Cor. 10:13 "but God is faithful, who will NOT suffer you to be TEMPTED above that ye are ABLE; but will with the temptation also make a way to ESCAPE, that ye may be able to bear it."
Summary: God will not not tempt any gay individual above which they are able to handle. They eventually have to choose to act on the temptation of same gender attraction.
Anonymous | 12:40 p.m. June 11, 2009
So I have a question for the people who are proposing that homosexuals can be
"changed" to heterosexuals: do you think heterosexuals could be
changed into homosexuals? Could a strait man learn to be gay? Becuase if you can
change a gay man into a strait one, you should be able to change a strait man
into a gay one. Seems strange to me as I know nothing in the world would make
men attractive to me, but according to the logic of some here you can switch
back and forth as a "choice."
the problem is obvious | 12:41 p.m. June 11, 2009
the problem is you all are trying to say:
- it's a sin
- it's perverse
- it's immoral
- it's wrong
- they can change
- they don't have to act on their natural tendencies
etc etc etc
and yet you base this on your upbringing and religious beliefs with nothing else.
It harms no one. It is totally harmless for these people to live the way they do.
You all act like it is a BAD THING. But that's just your opinion. maybe you're wrong. Maybe there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. has that even occurred to you?
because that's really the basis of the gay argument. They say "it's ok to feel this way - there's nothing wrong with what we are doing"
so - other than you think it's wrong, why do you care? it doesn't affect you at all.
- it's a sin
- it's perverse
- it's immoral
- it's wrong
- they can change
- they don't have to act on their natural tendencies
etc etc etc
and yet you base this on your upbringing and religious beliefs with nothing else.
It harms no one. It is totally harmless for these people to live the way they do.
You all act like it is a BAD THING. But that's just your opinion. maybe you're wrong. Maybe there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. has that even occurred to you?
because that's really the basis of the gay argument. They say "it's ok to feel this way - there's nothing wrong with what we are doing"
so - other than you think it's wrong, why do you care? it doesn't affect you at all.
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Yes, we have such a problem with our population shrinking - NOT! Are you thinking that we should once again outlaw homosexuality?
OR
Do you think that homosexuals should have children? Is that what you think? Well, they HAVE children. Over 70,000 children are being raised by gay families just in California!
Preventing gay marriage will do nothing to stop homosexuals who want children from having them. It will not turn those gays who want children straight. It will not increase the population in any way.
What was your reasoning behind these statements?