Deseret News | Gay-rights activist calls for D.C. march

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Gay-rights activist calls for D.C. march

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To Blacks and Gays... | 9:31 | 10:23 a.m. June 8, 2009

Some people may be born with gay tendencies but they have a choice whether to give in to those tendencies. You can choose not to engage in homosexual activity, it is called self control. Some people are born with a desire to have view child porn, does that make it right? Comparing the civil rights movement to gay rights movement is just a tactic to try and give it some validity. Anyone with half a brain can see through the stupidity of this comparison.

Johnny Darko | 10:25 a.m. June 8, 2009

@ Barbara T. | 8:01 a.m. June 8, 2009
I won't tolerate them teaching about religion in school either. All of this belongs at home, my children can learn about Science, Math, History and English at school.

Paul | 10:25 a.m. June 8, 2009

Most of the arguments/comments that are put forward really have missed the point. Gay marriage will happen. The only question is when. The reason I know it will happen is looking at the reaction of leaders following the California debacle. All the large contributors who supported prop 8 eventually bowed to the Gay and Lesbian community because of the negative financial impact. The LDS church couldn't shed itself of the story quick enough; I am sure we won't be hearing from them, again, on this subject, outside of Utah (too much money/marketing potential at stake). This isn't a religious or civil rights debate. It is a MONEY debate. The Gay and Lesbian community has the money...debate over.

Comments continue below

Bill Mahr | 10:30 a.m. June 8, 2009

To all of you whom posted something about "god crying" or "raining on your parade" Please note that a true god would not dabble so much in the day to day going ons of man. My guess is that god has better things to do then make it rain in Utah on a Sunday Gay Pride parade.

I'm just saying...

Michaelitos | 10:42 a.m. June 8, 2009

I find it incredible that so many people are actually fooled with the subtle twist of equating sexual preference (i.e. a chosen lifestyle) with racial heritage (i.e. no choice involved).

Equating the two is a VERY clever ploy of gay-rights activists in an attempt to craftily manipulate the masses. And NO, I'm not talking about nurture vs. nature, here. After all, it doesn't matter who you are attracted to. What matters is your decision and action.

Race involves no choice. However, a gay lifestyle is by it's very nature a thoughtful act: you are choosing whom you sleep with.

Equating the civil rights movement and Martin Luther King to the current gay rights movement and Harvey Milk is a sophistry of the biggest kind. And quite frankly, I'm offended that Cleve Jones and his like would dare make the comparison. Mr. Jones' remarks, while subtle, are NOT aimed at open dialogue, they are meant to cajole and manipulate. That's not just unfair, it's unethical.

Please | 10:51 a.m. June 8, 2009

Let this comunity openly serve their country in the military. I am even okay if they want civil unions. But please don't legalize it to the point that my kids have to learn about it in their schools.

Knowledge is power, but some knowledge can also destroy civilizations.

Dear Denise | 10:58 a.m. June 8, 2009

Thank you very much for your comments. You see, I'm gay. I am Hispanic. My partner of 27 years and I have a daughter and we are Christians. I have a personal relationship with my Heavenly Father. I am an ex-missionary. When I read comments like yours, it gives me hope and I beleieve that people are able to raise over their environment ad see beyond.
This country of ours is great and is great because it has the ability to redefine it self and adjust. At this moment we have 6 states that allow Gay marriage. Two years ago we wouldn't have believed.
The Lord Jesus is the Lord of Love and understanding, eventhough, many people use his words to spread hate and bigotry. I agree with you Live an let live...eventually they will understand.

Race & Orientation | 11:29 a.m. June 8, 2009

It's ironic that Dr. Martin Luther King put an openly gay man (Bayard Rustin) in charge of the pivotal 1963 March on Washington, and the Montgomery Bus Boycott.

Perhaps he recognized Rustins skills despite his orientation, or perhaps he just understood that bigotry is bigotry, no matter what form it takes.

CougarKeith Continued... | 11:41 a.m. June 8, 2009

Once we as a people have caved into your whim, these other two groups will over a couple decades become "The Accepted Norm", then make their push for laws and equal rights, soon disgruntled children will have the legal right to leave their parents homes and move in with their "Men Friends" and "Women Friends" who can become their "Legal Guardian's" Then where have we sunk? For a sample of what I am talking about, find out what the "Rules" were for the FCC on Television, what could be viewed and heard when TV first came out. Then notice over the years, what can be seen and heard now! It's the same government, it's the same principle, and it's the same kids and adults subjected to it, just different generations! We are on the brink of the downfall of Society as we know it! Some of our cities are already on the downward slide, and a couple of countries have passed that point as far as crime control goes. This "Gay" Issue is the Tip of the Iceberg of the teetering of a Society! Like it or not, it is that important it be stopped!

wsr | 11:44 a.m. June 8, 2009

The excuse is "equal rights". The reason is money, power and control.

Adam | 11:46 a.m. June 8, 2009

Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be great pollutions upon the face of the earth; there shall be murders, and robbing, and lying, and deceivings, and whoredoms, and all manner of abominations; when there shall be many who will say, Do this, or do that, and it mattereth not, for the Lord will uphold such at the last day.

re:Denise Druce | 9:42 a.m | 11:49 a.m. June 8, 2009

"When Mary (who was caught in Adultery)was brought before Christ he did show great compassion but he ALSO told Mary to go thy way and SIN NO MORE."

And you are forgetting that Jesus said that HE would be the judge, not you. Jesus is perfect, so he know our hearts and minds - you do not. I will allow Jesus to judge me, not you!

to The Rock | 11:51 a.m. June 8, 2009

"Banning Gay sex would."

Tried that. The United States Supreme Court said that it was unconstitutional.

Maybe you would like Iran - it is illegal there...

@ 7:44 | 11:52 a.m. June 8, 2009

Actually I hate to rain on your parade, but pride has been held in SLC every year for several years. The venue may have been chosen as such, but if you had any knowlegde of current events, you would know that the Pride festival is nothing new.

Anonymous | 11:53 a.m. June 8, 2009

"there are MYRIAD reasons to support heterosexual marriage. To the person who mentioned there were no arguments posted here delineating that, I must ask, are you serious? Tradition, nature, stable homes for future generations, procreation, and dozens more reasons. The list of reasons to defend traditional marriage are so apparent and so important, I can only assume that one who doesn't see it is consciously choosing not to look"

Read the Iowa Supreme Court's decision. It will open up your eyes to the realities of the law.

to Michaelitos | 11:59 a.m. June 8, 2009

"Equating the civil rights movement and Martin Luther King to the current gay rights movement and Harvey Milk is a sophistry of the biggest kind."

Oh really?

"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," Coretta Scott King. - Reuters, March 31, 1998.

also to Michaelitos | 12:00 p.m. June 8, 2009

I believe in equal human rights, before the law, for all human beings, and race, gender, disability, class or sexual orientation should not be a factor under the law. Rev. Al Sharpton

gay person | 12:01 p.m. June 8, 2009

As a gay man in his 60s I have seen it all. Police harassment, attacks, condemnation and you name it. Being gay was never easy. With all this misinformation going on about choice and the constant hammering by the oh so religious it just never ends. When I was younger I tried to play the straight game. It just didnt work out. It is what it is. You can only live a lie so long to please everyone else. Hopefully for the younger people out there things will be much easier for them in the future. No amount of shock therapy, praying over you or sending you to straight school is going to change who you are. Do people chose to be gay? No. The medical community and social scientists recognize that now. Am I a sinner? Yes but not for the reasons some want to claim. My heart goes out to very young people who know they are different yet are told they will not be of value. Dont believe it..you are. It just takes strength to overcome all the bigotry out there. Its not easy.

Hatuletoh | 12:03 p.m. June 8, 2009

As I recall, the only people who made Jesus loose his temper were the money changers, which reminds me: Rep. Wimmer, associatation with men who describe themselves as "capitalists" before "fathers" might be fairly displeasing to the Lord. The adultress was gently admonished to go forth and sin no more. Seems like that pretty much puts a perspective which sins are the most repugnant. Too bad our society, which claims to place so much stock in scripture, can't even draw the most obvious lessons from it.

Mike in CA | 12:17 p.m. June 8, 2009

The argument is much deeper than expressed here. What homosexuals are seeking is legitimacy and that is it. They want us to accept this unnatural behavior. It is clear in nature that without procreation we can not continue our species. Therefore, such relationships are scientifically unnatural. Why individuals want to live this lifestyle has yet to be determined. But suffice it to say, it is outside of natures basic plan.

Given that these folks desire to enter into these relationships. What role does government play in defining marriage? There are tax benefits associated with the term/relationship of marriage. These folks do not have access to those things.

So we have a dichotomy. I believe this type of relationship is immoral and not natural and should not be considered acceptable. However, we should create laws that allow them access to the same benefits that others have access to.

Religion is the only place we can truly sanctify the union between man and woman. Those religions that accept this behavior/relationship should be ostracized as not Christian. Additionally, government should not force religions/people to accept such behavior by tax laws or indoctrination.

Anonymous | 12:23 p.m. June 8, 2009

The LDS Church is going to stand on its principles. They will not be bullied or intimidated by others into changing their stance on this issue.

People can protest all day long, but the fact is that the people support marriage between a man and a woman. Anytime the issue is put before the voters, the voters side with marriage for one man and one woman.

This is not an equal right issue either. Gays and lesbians have the same rights to housing, health care, employment, religion, gun ownership, and so forth as straights do. The laws are very strict in our country against any form of discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Anyone that has discriminated against gays in any way (hate crimes, etc.) has been brought to justice and held to account.

To argue that gays and lesbians don't have any rights, that their voices aren't being heard, and that the LDS Church and other groups are trying to put them backwards is ridiculous.

When will some of these people get back in touch with reality and be a little more respectful in their appeals for legal recognition?

Ralph | 12:32 p.m. June 8, 2009

The most intolerant always seem to be those who cry for tolerance. Each and every American has a right to their opinion. And most Americans I know (LDS and non-LDS alike) do not support gay marriage. I have a daughter who professes to being gay. She does not believe people are born gay but rather that it is a choice. I love her and support her right to choose, but I do not support her lifestyle. Nevertheless, We have a great relationship. It is possible to love a person while rejecting something they do. Gay marriage goes against the ideal that God set up when He performed the first marriage in the Garden of Eden. Who are we to go against that perfect model? For me, that is the greatest evidence from the scriptures that gay marriage is wrong.

GAYS CANNOT MARRY | 12:34 p.m. June 8, 2009

"We seek nothing more and nothing less than equal protection under the law in all matters governed by civil law in all 50 states," Jones said. "It is time to march again". Marriage is NOT guaranteed to gays. Marriage is defined as between a man and woman - that's it. No transvestites, no homosexuals, not a man and his horse. Just a man and a woman. Why do we restrict marriage from homosexuals? Reason - IT's ALL ABOUT THE KIDS! It is the responsibility of society to see that children are loved AND NURTURED in a way that gives them the best chance to grow up and develop normally and HOMOSEXUALITY robs them of that opportunity. Homosexuality is ABNORMAL behavior and thus is not suitable for children - pretty simply really but you get all these emotional gays attempting to force their abnormal debauchery into the "normal slot" of society and it just doesn't fit. It is the goal of the gay movement to pound and pound and pound that square peg into that round hole and who ever gets in their way better watch out.

Not a native | 12:40 p.m. June 8, 2009

I lived in Utah for 12 years and moved away. You don't really appreciate the LDS culture until you move away. Utah is an awesome place to raise families and thats because of the LDS religion and their belief system. They are the ones being singled out when actually it was a larger more unified front that stopped Prop 8. I think SLC was chosen as the place to march because the GLBT community knows that the LDS church will not retaliate. Try doing your parade somewhere else. You might not be having such a great time in your swim wear, balloons and rubber pools.

Jud | 1:00 p.m. June 8, 2009

I have a lot of concern for my gay friends. I am not in favor of gay marriage, however, because it would open up the prospect of adoption of children. I feel very strongly that children need fathers and mothers in their lives. For me, it is a children's issue. I fully support the right of adults to live with, love, and associate with whomever they choose. Children are a different matter. They are not in a position to choose.

Anonymous | 1:16 p.m. June 8, 2009

Look at all these silly people marching in the streets. Silly as as their entire mindset.

Anonymous | 1:25 p.m. June 8, 2009

Aren't all marches in the street kind of silly.

Anonymous | 1:25 p.m. June 8, 2009

Look at all these silly people marching in the streets. Silly as as their entire mindset.

I said the same thing during the last LDS Conference...

RE:GAYS CANNOT MARRY | 12:34 p.m | 1:35 p.m. June 8, 2009

Science doesn't support your position. Numerous studies have concluded that children raised by same-gender parents are as well off as those raised by opposite gender families.

Anonymous | 1:35 p.m. June 8, 2009

It's never a good idea to get into a match with the activists.

Anonymous | 1:36 p.m. June 8, 2009

Everyone already has the same right to get married. There is no discrimination against one group or another.

Wilden | 1:39 p.m. June 8, 2009

I am having trouble understanding from the gay lobby why Mormons can't vote their conscience like everyone else. Gays hold a lot of resentment because the Mormon's helped make a push to defeat Propostion 8 in California. Okay gays, how should the Mormon Church vote their conscience? Are you trying to vote your conscience. I am absolutely against all Of Obama's bail outs because no one knows the end result, only guesses. But, I am not staying up nights angry about it. It is what it is.

Anonymous | 1:47 p.m. June 8, 2009

"This is not an equal right issue either. Gays and lesbians have the same rights to housing, health care, employment, religion, gun ownership, and so forth as straights do. The laws are very strict in our country against any form of discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation."

THIS IS NOT TRUE. Check with your legislator. S/He will tell you that gays have NEVER been allowed to be added to any discrimination group in Utah. They CAN be fired for being gay without having any legal recourse for the action. They CAN be kicked out of their apartment because their landlord finds out they are gay with any legal recourse. Go find out the truth.

To Ralph | 1:50 p.m. June 8, 2009

"Gay marriage goes against the ideal that God set up when He performed the first marriage in the Garden of Eden."

Show me the ceremony in the Garden of Eden in the bible.

I think God just "GAVE" Eve to Adam and told them to replenish the earth. Where is the marriage?

to I hate marches | 1:52 p.m. June 8, 2009

Ummmm ... it was a parade, not a march, and the correct permits were obtained, and it was widely known and reported when and where it would take place; perhaps you should try watching the news or reading the paper to become aware of these things. Oh, and the police WERE stopping the parade to let cars through intersections and out of parking lots.

To gays cannot marry | 1:52 p.m. June 8, 2009

"Marriage is NOT guaranteed to gays. Marriage is defined as between a man and woman - that's it. No transvestites, no homosexuals, not a man and his horse. Just a man and a woman."

But that is not true in Mass., Conn, New Hampshire, Iowa, Maine, Spain, Norway, Canada, Belgium, Sweden, South Africa, and the Netherlands.

All these places have gay marriage. None have had anyone trying to marry their horse.

Anonymous | 1:59 p.m. June 8, 2009

"IT's ALL ABOUT THE KIDS! It is the responsibility of society to see that children are loved AND NURTURED in a way that gives them the best chance to grow up and develop normally and HOMOSEXUALITY robs them of that opportunity."

This is not about the Children. Gays can and do legally adopt - even right here in Utah! And they are raising children whether or not there is gay marriage

If you really cared about the children, you would allow their parents to get married to let these children have the most stable home that they could be raised in. Because you are against gay marriage, I really do not believe that you care about these children. You care about your beliefs only.

Anonymous | 2:01 p.m. June 8, 2009

"I think SLC was chosen as the place to march because the GLBT community knows that the LDS church will not retaliate. Try doing your parade somewhere else. You might not be having such a great time in your swim wear, balloons and rubber pools."

The gay pride parade has been going on for YEARS in Salt Lake City. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the LDS church or Prop 8.

Where have you been?

Troy Williams | 2:01 p.m. June 8, 2009

I agree with Cleve Jones -- THANK YOU MORMONS!! Thank you -- all of you leaders and members of the LDS Church who supported Prop 8! You have brought us all together, galvanized our movement, and mobilized us into action. We wish you no harm. We want you to be happy and to also enjoy liberty. But know this: we gays WILL enjoy full freedom and civil equality in this nation. Very soon.

And we couldn't have done it without you.

Our sincere gratitude,

Troy Williams
Gay Mormon, Returned Missionary, Happy Man!

KJB | 2:03 p.m. June 8, 2009

Hmmm, 20,000 people came out to march in a red state for gay rights. Isn't that larger than any of the turnouts at the "tea parties" last spring?

And why does straight marriage need defending? I'm pretty sure the heterosexuality isn't disappearing any time soon...

to JUD | 2:04 p.m. June 8, 2009

"Jud | 1:00 p.m. June 8, 2009
I have a lot of concern for my gay friends. I am not in favor of gay marriage, however, because it would open up the prospect of adoption of children."

Jud, you do not know what you are talking about. If you heard this from someone, you need to correct them. Gays CAN adopt. Gays ARE adopting and having their own children via surrogate mothers and in vitro fertilization.

Gay marriage has absolutely NOTHING to do with gays being parents or not. You need to change your thinking.

Anonymous | 2:08 p.m. June 8, 2009

Anonymous | 1:36 p.m. June 8, 2009
"Everyone already has the same right to get married. There is no discrimination against one group or another."

That is the same argument they used to keep blacks and whites from marrying each other. Each person had the right to marry, just someone of their own race.

What did the SCOTUS decide? That was unconstitutional. Your argument will not withstand a US Supreme Court review.

Everyone is sad | 2:11 p.m. June 8, 2009

If the rain on Sunday was anyone crying, it was probably not God, but rather everyone that has ever been told that they were not worthy or accepted, and that is quite a large group of people. It includes the Christians, the Jews, Blacks, Mormons, Gays, just about every person at one time or another. It hurts deeply.

Our country was founded on several principles including Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. The laws of the United States have declared that it is NOT illegal to be gay, therefore please do not compare me to a murderer or rapist as both of those groups break the law. Instead leave me to be free to pursue my happiness.

And as for gay sex being taught in schools, sex education in schools in general is a whole other battle. At most tolerance would be taught. Would you honestly teach your kids that it was ok to throw a rock at someone for any reason besides protection of their life? I doubt it. Tolerance is never a bad idea.

It is a sad day, I wish that everyone could get along.

YES - GAYS CANNOT MARRY | 2:11 p.m. June 8, 2009

1. Show me the studies that conclude that children raised in GAY households are just as good as those raised by a father and mother. You claim there are such studies so SHOW ME!!!! Just the url's please!!

2. People in states such as California and Arizona are amending their state constitutions to PROTECT marriage. Over 35 states have such protection today. You site places such as Mass, Conn and Sweden... good grief what do you expect from such places? Everything else is legal in Sweden too including drugs!!!

choose what you do | 2:14 p.m. June 8, 2009

Just want to add a voice to the ex-gays. For years I was not attracted to women at all, i did however find men attractive. I have been able to increase my desire for women. While the attraction to men has remained, it has been supplemented by desire to be with a women.

If i had just given in, I never would of had the blessings of a heterosexual union. Can everyone change that deals with this? I don't know, but I do know that change is possible for some.

You only care about your beliefs | 2:15 p.m. June 8, 2009

Anonymous,

"If you really cared about the children, you would allow their parents to get married to let these children have the most stable home that they could be raised in. Because you are against gay marriage, I really do not believe that you care about these children. You care about your beliefs only."

I'm sorry to have to inform you of this but only one of the people in a gay relationship is the parent of any child in that relationship unless both of them chose to adopt a child together (they have the same rights) or one of them chose to adopt the child of the other partner (both parents of that child agree to allow the other partner to adopt their child or one of the child's parents had their parental rights taken away by a court).

"This is not about the Children. Gays can and do legally adopt - even right here in Utah! And they are raising children whether or not there is gay marriage"

Then let them adopt like single people, grandparents and other relatives, etc but legal marriage grants protections that shouldn't be extended to non-biological parents.

@To Ralph at 1:50 | 2:16 p.m. June 8, 2009

I think your right about God giving Eve to Adam. He didn't give Steve to Adam. It was a man and a woman.
Whether you will admit it or not gays marrying gays is a deviant behavior. Different from what God did in the Garden of Eden.

Let the gays march | 2:21 p.m. June 8, 2009

Give them a few minutes of fame and send them home.

Rainbows | 2:21 p.m. June 8, 2009

Of course it was raining.

What better support would God have than a giant rainbow?

Marriage is a statute | 2:22 p.m. June 8, 2009

Troy Williams,

"I agree with Cleve Jones -- THANK YOU MORMONS!! Thank you -- all of you leaders and members of the LDS Church who supported Prop 8!"

I'm liberal and an atheist and I'm getting sick of you whacko's making everything about religion when this issue has nothing to do with religion unless a person's opinion on this issue is influenced one way or the other by their religious and moral beliefs but that is their constitutional right. They have freedom of religion, freedom of conscience, freedom of speech and the freedom to vote based on their opinion just like you do.

"But know this: we gays WILL enjoy full freedom and civil equality in this nation."

Name one right, fundamental or civil, that is denied to gays while heterosexuals are granted it:

Freedom of speech;
Freedom of religion;
Freedom of association;
Freedom of press;
Freedom of assembly;
Freedom to petition the government;
Freedom to vote;
Freedom to hold elective office;
Equal protection UNDER (or according to) the law; or
Due process OF law.

Name a single fundamental or civil right which is denied based on sexual orientation.

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