Comments about ‘Mountain Meadows rites help bridge animosities’

Read about it,ponder it and pray for the victims..This was a horrible event;something that should never of had happened...Kenny said,day before yesterday, something to the effect that people were different in that day,that the church had not evolved too far,that old memories and wounds were still raw for some to think and act rationally,I think there is a lot of truth to what he said..I also think there was an attempt on the part of the church at that time to cover-up what they really knew and, to shield certain church members from prosecution...However that is in the past,and while there is no excuse;and in my view no forgiveness for the perpetrators of this barbaric act,there comes a time when closure is needed so healing can begin..I applaud both factions for coming together to achieve that end..And I especially hope that the young children who were murdered, are somewhere with the Father living in peace,their mortal suffering long forgotten...

How times have changed. Juanita Brooks was the first to write about the massacre, and she commented on the silence that greeted her book from the authorities of the church she loved.

Greetings:

News reports, such as this one, always bothers me.

Who are we to be whimsically passing judgement on our forebearers?

We didn't live back then, under those conditions, so why do we dare to consider ourselves so righteous, and our ancestors so wicked and ignorant?

Since I am a convert in The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, these were not my ancestors.

But, shall I apologize because I have ancestors who fought Indians, owned slaves, or who openly supported the Ku Klux Klan?

It's not right to be sitting safely esconced within academic ivory towers, smugly blaming our ancestors because they were imperfect human beings compelled to survive an arduous hostile environment.

We are emasculating ourselves, unwilling to face the harsh realities of contemporary politically incorrect choices.

It's possible that within a few months (or weeks?), our national economy will totally collapse, and with it, all semblance of society's conventional legal recourse.

Under those conditions, will we still be more righteous than the pioneers we now so blithely condemn?

Thank you.

John Robert Mallernee
Armed Forces Retirement Home
Washington, D.C. 20011-8400

I've read the Massacre and Mountain Meadows and it is a very good book. However, the authors, all of whom are employed by the LDS church, short shrift Brigham Young's role in the cover-up. There needs to be another book-length study focusing on how Young and his associates made Lee the fall man to spare them and the church grief.

ever top Juanita Brook's on the topic, she is a state gem in terms of Southern Utah history. She knew far more of the actual people (or at least those close to them) as well as had the best access to all their journals/histories. It's funny someone like Bagley thinks he can write a book about it when he is so far removed from the time, place, and people who were involved (can you say ax to grind against the church). Though inexcusable, you have to put what happened in the context of the time (Federal Army marching on Utah etc.). Read Mrs. Brooks book before you decide for yourself. Her goal was the truth no matter what it was even at the risk of her church standing which was dear to her. I wish their were or had been more historians like her.

Um, another article? Who cares- this is all craziness.

RE: anonymous
The authors plan on another book dealing with just that subject. The research is ongoing.

RE: Monday Morning Quarterback
When a 'pioneer' walks along side of a 12 year old girl who has been told she is safe and that 'pioneer' puts a bullet in her head, that person does deserve to be condemned as a cold blooded murderer just as the others who took part in that slaughter do. Many were leaders who relied on everything but the Holy Ghost which they preached was so important. The research shows clearly the obscene reasoning that evolved into an incident that, in reality, was not justified.

You forget to mention what helped set all the events into motion. Emma Smith lost a child when a door was left open on a measled child so that Joseph could be dragged away for tarring and feathering. Exposure was the final straw for that baby. Add to that the countless times property was forceably removed from LDS ownership. Or, how about the extermination order in Missouri? Those were events when Joseph was alive. From there, the Mormons traveled an extreme hardship to the other side of the universe. While it may seem a heinous crime, please do not pretend that bigoted events did not help set the tragedy into motion.

An anti-mormon who understands history

Very good comment...There is no defense for the slaughter of innocent children,no rationale that can justify it...It has become(thanks to aggressive research) very apparent that what happened in southern Utah was planned and encouraged by a few very misguided(some would say evil)members of the church...I also cannot believe that they were guided by the Holy Spirit to commit such a terrible act...I realize that people were paranoid,angry, and distrustful in those days;they had good reason to be fearful...That still does not give one license to commit wholesale slaughter against unarmed civilians...Juanita Brook's book,of course,is an excellent one, as is Will Bagley's version of the event"Blood of the Prophets:Brigham Young and the Mountain Meadows Massacre"....Bagely's is much more detailed and gives one more information to consider;and there are insinuations that will,most likely,offend some members...Again,being far removed from a historical event does not preclude one from writing an accurate account about it..Most historians have axes to grind;the excellent writers are just more subtle than others...

I cannot believe that this paper is defaming southern Utah again..i wrote this before and so i will do it again..Those Arkansas people murdered Parley Pratt in cold blood and laughed about it,they bragged that they had the guns that shot and killed Joseph and Hyrum,they had oxen named Joseph and Brigham,they were trying to steal our women,and they poisoned springs and dead cattle in order to kill the indians..Why not talk about the role the indians played...And the prophet Brigham Young had nothing to do with it..You should be ashamed for allowing this topic to come up;all it is doing is tearing the church down..If you really want to know the truth,come down to southern Utah and we will be glad to tell you...

Re: cedar city

All the Arkansas people? The young children, the woman? Come on! Stop with the "they deserved it" rationale. I suggest you read the latest book on the incident that received high acclaim. The LDS authors are well respected and turned over many stones that were hidden before. You will be surprised about the facts concerning the poisoned cattle story among others. This has nothing to do with defaming southern Utah, the Church, or worthy members. It has to do with revealing the truth and healing wounds. It shows what can happen when people turn off the spirit and act on revenge and fear instead. Thank goodness the Church is helping to put the whole sordid incident into perspective.

Some are always RAMPING and raving on and on like they really know something. Kind of like wannabe's but really knows nothing at all.

I think people have put their opinions here in the context that is allowing for the suffering the church went through... Your claim to being an anti-mormon, seems to me, to ring a little false;you certainly sound like you are defending what happened at Mountain Meadows;or, at the very least,making excuses for it, as you seem to be when you state"While it may seem a heinous crime"...Maybe you need to refresh your memory about your historical knowledge...

Hey, "cedar city," you're hardly spreading out the welcome mat. Quite frankly, I'm now a bit scared to talk to you, in southern Utah or not--and I'm LDS! Just a thought: Perhaps the most important thing we can do is to let go of the bitterness and enmity?

Pride, bitterness and enmity is what will REALLY tear down the church, if anything will. We as a church can and will move past this--if we will learn from the errors and horrors of the past. We CANNOT continue to attempt to justify the atrocities Mormons committed at Mountain Meadows by saying that our enemies at that time committed them, too. THAT is what is truly making the Church look stupid--and it's ultimately what those who committed the massacre did.

"cedar city," I refer you to the Sermon on the Mount for further relevant commentary on the subject.

Blame the Inidans? The role they played? Their land, their land, their land?

Sure, toss in a blame on the Indians. shheeese lousie

No one is blaming the Indians, but just the Indians blame themselves. I know some who do.

None of it should have happened from Ohio to Missouri to Illinois to Utah, but it did. Have the ones guilty of murder at Hauns Mill, Nauvoo, Far West or Carthage been named or blamed? Did John D. Lee wake up and decide to get the Indians to help and a lot of his neighbors to help massacre a wagon train?

None of us know what really happened. All of the books written from both sides don't know what really happened. They assume from what they can find in records. Unfortunately, those killed didn't leave record and those that ordered it and did the killing did not either. More so, those that did the killing entered a blood oath not to tell. Those that did tell were very questionable in their reports and were often tainted with agenda influence. Even John D. Lee's supposed confession that was published was done by someone else and did not match his writing style nor was it in his own writing. It is supposed that it was his attorney who did it for profit.

It is time to let those who are guilty be dealt with by the ultimate Judge.

The Most UnAmerican Event In Utah History.

My wife I have ancestors on both sides of this tragedy. We are comfortable with the approach of:
1-Learning all that we can about the tragedy without judging the individuals involved
2-Honoring the dead as the Church and other organizations are doing
3-Knowing that no one gets away with anything in this life and judgement and consequence are left to our Savior, who knows all
4-Not building hostilities toward either side

Some of my ancestors joined the Church in Kirtland in 1830 and remained true to the Prophet Joseph all their lives. As a result, they were dealt many tragedies. I'm also comfortable with allowing all judgement of those incidents to remain in the hands of my Savior and I will not allow my emotions to be wasted on senseless judgments of others. I can become more like the person my God wants me to become by doing these things.

... 100% agreed, and well-put. May those sentiments be the final word on this subject.