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Turning out statesmen is Cedar school's goal
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Puzzled Observer | 11:12 p.m. May 29, 2009
I live in Cedar City and have seen this "George Wythe school" located
in a strip mall adjacent to the Movie Theater and InstaCare. Ever since
it's inception I have wondered what is going on at that place. They seem
to offer very few degrees all heavily focused in the Constitution. The founder
of the school, charismatic DeMille, has had other unusual groups, quasi schools,
and business ventures around the area. The over- Zealous folks that assemble
at the campus concern me. Is this place legitimate? The article states that a
campus of the school in Moab has been held up by accreditation issues.
Accreditation is a huge issue and should be investigated. It seems that
whenever I have encountered this school, students and administration they are
very defensive about defending the legitimacy of their college. Why?
Citizen | 11:27 p.m. May 29, 2009
It's ironic they would say students "learn how to think instead of
what to think" when it's actually the exact opposite: students there
tend to be very far right-wing, non-critical thinking individuals. To wit, Glenn
Beck is headlining their fundraiser.
JMT | 9:01 a.m. May 30, 2009
I have a distant relative that has sent her children there. They are heavily
exposed to certain ideas but limited in many of the basics that would prepare
one for graduate schools. Most troubling is that they are not accredited and
have been working on this for over a decade. What this means is that graduates
are not able to use the degree. They will not be allowed to enroll in virtually
any law school in America, which requires a BA from an accredited institution.
They will not be able to get a job that requires a BA and the job is certified
by the State, such as a teacher.
All in all, it worries me. I hope they can solve their accreditation issues.
All in all, it worries me. I hope they can solve their accreditation issues.
Comments continue below
Neoclassical | 10:19 a.m. May 30, 2009
I think they should be accredited. What other university uncovered the
founders' reading list that includes W. Cleon Skousen? These people do
their research!
DonM | 10:22 a.m. May 30, 2009
My daughter has attended this school. It is possible to obtain a liberal arts
education without a modern liberal bias. This school knows how to do it.
Sounds like "Citizen" is critical of conservative options to the
overwhelming control of academia by the left.
student | 11:28 a.m. May 30, 2009
Students from George Wythe, have in fact gone on to Law Schools, Business
Schools, and other graduate programs. Non-Accreditation doesn't hold the
students back, it just makes them more effective out side the box thinkers, more
resourceful, and more focused, which are all super valuable attributes in
today's economy.
Anonymous | 1:12 p.m. May 30, 2009
From what I've seen, the school challenges students considerably more
intensely than my experience at BYU. The fact that they are principled in
conservative values just provides an option for students who want that -- since
they probably won't find it in many other places nowadays.
anon | 3:41 p.m. May 30, 2009
This school has got some serious issues -- just google it. It is basically an
extension of Skousen's NCCS organization, spawned in the early 1990s in the
midst of the Meadeau View Institute fiasco down in Duck Creek.
Tiffany | 9:43 p.m. May 30, 2009
I have personally attended this school and can say with certainty that they aim
high and encourage the students to do the same. The school has met and
surpassed all of the accreditation criteria excepting the required millions of
dollars in a savings account. The quality of their mentoring and curriculum is
only comparable to the great Ivy League schools of the past. I can't think
of a worthier school to attend or support. They build thinkers, men and women
of virtue and integrity and I believe they will create those who will become the
leaders of the future.
Irish | 7:01 a.m. May 31, 2009
One huge problem is that very few of the faculty at that school have accredited
degrees, including the founder Oliver Demille. Demille does have a B.A. from BYU
but his PhD is from an unaccredited correspondence program. Google:
"diploma demille" and you will find an interesting, well researched
article on the topic.
I think that Deseret News wrote an objective piece on this, but a little more digging would be helpful.
I think that Deseret News wrote an objective piece on this, but a little more digging would be helpful.
Dear Tiffany | 7:45 a.m. May 31, 2009
"The quality of their mentoring and curriculum is only comparable to the
great Ivy League schools of the past."
How would anyone know this? George Wythe students are never challenged on this point. Why do they always try to compare GW to the Ivies? How silly!
How would anyone know this? George Wythe students are never challenged on this point. Why do they always try to compare GW to the Ivies? How silly!
Leah | 8:57 a.m. May 31, 2009
I have never been a student at this school. From the sound of things, it's
not perfect, either. I would, however, like to find out for myself what it is
like, despite the comments posted here. I hope I am not too much of an old dog
not to learn 'new tricks'!
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it
Elise | 11:05 a.m. May 31, 2009
I'm a student at George Wythe and I don't feel like I need to defend
it. Everyone sees what they're looking for and we're all hindered by
our own personal biases.
George Wythe is exactly the education that I want and I enjoy every minute of it. It does get intense as they inspire you to really push yourself but the pain of learning is worth the reward it brings.
I hope we can all be a little more open minded with each other's ideas and hopefully learn to see eye to eye. George Wythe isn't for everyone. If it isn't for you, then that's okay! Get a great education somewhere else. :) But it is for me.
George Wythe is exactly the education that I want and I enjoy every minute of it. It does get intense as they inspire you to really push yourself but the pain of learning is worth the reward it brings.
I hope we can all be a little more open minded with each other's ideas and hopefully learn to see eye to eye. George Wythe isn't for everyone. If it isn't for you, then that's okay! Get a great education somewhere else. :) But it is for me.
Anonymous | 10:41 p.m. May 31, 2009
In trying to emulate the great nature of the US founders, we can carefully
consider and study the components that helped to build their character. GWU
employs methods that they utilized, such as debate, the socratic method,
colloquia, mentors working closely with few mentees, study of classics and
original material, etc. These methods still result in an exemplary education,
regardless of accreditation status. The good news is, GWU is well on its way to
becoming accredited and those who have obtained degrees prior to this will be
"grandfathered" in. We can have the best of both worlds; a classic,
liberal arts education using modern technology. Most of the mentors hold
degrees from renowned and accredited institutions and one talk with them reveals
the depth and breadth of their education. If this is not for you, find a way to
further your education in a way that is. I believe their methods to be sound
and time will validate the approach.
To Anonymous: 10:41 p.m. | 5:47 a.m. June 1, 2009
"GWU employs methods that they utilized, such as debate, the socratic
method, colloquia, mentors working closely with few mentees, study of classics
and original material, etc. "
The same can be said of most universities - just take classes in the right department.
"those who have obtained degrees prior to this will be "grandfathered" in."
I don't think that is the case - especially if they had received their degree for life experience.
"Most of the mentors hold degrees from renowned and accredited institutions and one talk with them reveals the depth and breadth of their education."
Not true: just look at their backgrounds: many graduated from their GWU! Others graduated from Coral Ridge. Yes there are a few "mentors" there who graduated from accredited programs, but they are not the majority of the on-campus staff.
The same can be said of most universities - just take classes in the right department.
"those who have obtained degrees prior to this will be "grandfathered" in."
I don't think that is the case - especially if they had received their degree for life experience.
"Most of the mentors hold degrees from renowned and accredited institutions and one talk with them reveals the depth and breadth of their education."
Not true: just look at their backgrounds: many graduated from their GWU! Others graduated from Coral Ridge. Yes there are a few "mentors" there who graduated from accredited programs, but they are not the majority of the on-campus staff.
Musings | 7:04 a.m. June 1, 2009
There's a reason why this is school is NOT accredited. It's faculty
are not qualified--indeed, many of them have degrees from diploma mills, which
is an absolute joke in the real world. Moreover, as a side note, they get
indoctrinated in right wing rhetoric (they are reading Cleon Skousen, really?)
and their education is not preparing them for the challenges of the 21st
century, namely, immigration concerns, global warming, and a host of other
matters. I'm not opposed to teaching conservative thought (heaven knows we
have plenty of liberal opinions in the academy), but what I am opposed to is
creating a bunch of like-minded homogentic students who have no brain capacity
to tackle, much less engage, in the big problems that face our community. I
used to teach at Dixie State and I ran into a fair share of students who
attended George Wythe. I was amazed at their lack of knowledge concerning basic
principles in government, social problems, and even the classics, which they
purport to love. To make this College a reputable institution, you need to 1)
get qualified faculty and 2) expose these kids to a wide range of views.
Agree! | 7:58 a.m. June 1, 2009
I agree with "Musings" 100 percent. There's nothing wrong with
conservative thought, but when it excludes all other discourse there's a
problem. I think BYU and Notre Dame--two very conservative religious
schools--do the job right. They are certainly conservative in their curriculum,
but they do not shy away from exposing their students to an array of liberal
opinions. In this regard, they not only prepare students for the rigors of
graduate school, but they prepare them for the vast complexities that await them
in the real world.
PS: DeMille, the president of George Wythe, has a PHD in Constitutional Studies. I did a quick search and realized there is no such degree--unless, of course, you get a non reputable, non accredited, made up quack degree from a bogus diploma mill.
PS: DeMille, the president of George Wythe, has a PHD in Constitutional Studies. I did a quick search and realized there is no such degree--unless, of course, you get a non reputable, non accredited, made up quack degree from a bogus diploma mill.
Right wing extremists? | 8:25 a.m. June 1, 2009
I live in Cedar City and despite what GWU preaches the school does not get the
results they claim. These people are extreme in their views and for the most
part unbalanced individuals. Say what you like about "Liberal
Education" but it is the best university system in the world for educating
people in a broad sense to be good citizens. Don't get me wrong US higher
ed has its problems but GWU is not the solution, only an alternative for right
wingers.
DissentFromDayOneDOTcom | 9:42 a.m. June 1, 2009
I have a B.S. from a large state school and an M.A. from a small private school.
GWU's Ph.D. in Constitutional Law is EXACTLY what I've been looking
for and I'm investigating it now. Why? Because when I read bio's of
the Founding Fathers they all mention the classics as their foundation. I want
the same. Ironic that the bashers above are fully indoctrinated by the
think-speak from their tenured, never-DONE-anything leftist profs. LOL.
Greg | 9:53 a.m. June 1, 2009
I would love to enroll in the PHD program at some point--it would be a dream of
mine. I've been to various seminars and have visited the campus in Cedar
City and met some of the faculty and staff. I love the environment and learning
atmosphere. For me it's simply a matter of timing as to when I attend, but
I believe GWU offers a curriculum and environment that can be found nowhere else
in the country, whether or not it is accredited. Keep up the good work GWU!
Anonymous | 11:15 a.m. June 1, 2009
To Dissent from dayonedotcom and Greg: What in the world will you do with a
bogus degree from a bogus institution? Who will hire you? If you love the
classics so much, then why don't you read them on your own? This would be
much better than the money you'd waste supporting their right wing dribble.
Indoctrinated from Day One | 3:45 p.m. June 1, 2009
I am one who was indoctrinated by my leftist professors - my main doctoral
advisor is an international expert in child development. Another is a national
expert in reading, another in autism. They indoctrinated me to the point that I
need to have an accredited degree, get publications, do peer-reviewed research,
and the like to make it in the academic world. Oh yes, and read the classics
too. GWU is a diploma mill founded by those who hold diploma mill degrees.
Point of View | 8:19 a.m. June 2, 2009
To some on the left the school appears right, and the school appears to some on
the right, to be left. Point of view.
Thinkers across the spectrum and on both ends of the spectrum are read and discussed, not just Skousen.
Major ideas and beliefs from both ends of the spectrum are challenged, including topics already mentioned.
They help students learn how to participate in Gov. through learning Parliamentary Procedure and forms of Gov. GWU encourages learning history and current events to know what has been done and what was the result, and to not look for the quick fix, but think about long term impact of today's programs and solutions. Often the quick solution has already been tried elsewhere. Often the quick solution has trade offs that are worst than the problem, thus solving one problem and creating others.
I hope GWU keeps up the good work, whether or not they get accreditation, or gain popularity with those on the far left or right.
Thinkers across the spectrum and on both ends of the spectrum are read and discussed, not just Skousen.
Major ideas and beliefs from both ends of the spectrum are challenged, including topics already mentioned.
They help students learn how to participate in Gov. through learning Parliamentary Procedure and forms of Gov. GWU encourages learning history and current events to know what has been done and what was the result, and to not look for the quick fix, but think about long term impact of today's programs and solutions. Often the quick solution has already been tried elsewhere. Often the quick solution has trade offs that are worst than the problem, thus solving one problem and creating others.
I hope GWU keeps up the good work, whether or not they get accreditation, or gain popularity with those on the far left or right.
TBird | 8:53 a.m. June 2, 2009
GWU is no different than the degree mill just a few blocks away know as SUU.
And on the subject leftist indoctirination, if you're not extremely
conservative you'll have a hard time surviving at SUU as a student or
employee. If SUU's millions suddenly disappeared they would be faced with
the same accredidation problems. They also have unqualified professors. SUU
professors can't handle students who think. And worse those like myself
who weren't challenged and actually come up with extra work to really dig
deep on a subject only to be told "that's not part of this course and
I don't have to support it muchless grade it." The problem isn't
GWU "indoctrinating" it's the Cedar City culture. The
"acceptable" Cedar City citizen doesn't think for his or herself,
attends church every Sunday (regardless of their behavior the other 6 days of
the week) and is a huge supporter of the 10% of the population who actually
serve this community (and that must include supporting SUU). If you don't
fit, you are a leper. GWU doesn't fit. Move it to St. George and
there's problem.
The problem | 11:53 a.m. June 2, 2009
The problem with GWU's claim to build statesmen is that they have 1) no
professors at the college are statesmen. If they had somebody who had actually
served our country at a high level, then maybe they could make such a claim.
George Wythe himself was a statesman BEFORE he mentored Thomas Jefferson. As a
recipe for creating statesmen, it takes a mentor who IS a statesman. 2) The
curriculum ignores the last 250 years of history to create statesmen. By this I
mean that students are not exposed to what statesmen today are made with! Look
at examples from today. There are statesmen (regardless of what Glenn Beck,
Oliver DeMille, and others claim). Why not tap into the sort of education they
received? Just a thought.
Mababi | 7:07 p.m. June 2, 2009
George Wythe University offers a quality education that compares favorably to
the best institutions. The school's lack of accreditation hasn't
hindered our two sons, who are both GW graduates.
Our elder son, for example, received a full-ride scholarship to a prestigious California law school, where he is in his final year. He has served as a law clerk for a think tank in Washington, D.C., at a national public interest law firm, and currently, on the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee. Our younger son has worked in public policy since graduation for think tanks, and at the White House. He just received a generous scholarship to attend graduate school at a top-ranked university in Great Britain.
Clearly the graduate institutions that our sons attend/will attend recognize the merits of George Wythe. We are very satisfied with the outstanding education our sons received.
Our elder son, for example, received a full-ride scholarship to a prestigious California law school, where he is in his final year. He has served as a law clerk for a think tank in Washington, D.C., at a national public interest law firm, and currently, on the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee. Our younger son has worked in public policy since graduation for think tanks, and at the White House. He just received a generous scholarship to attend graduate school at a top-ranked university in Great Britain.
Clearly the graduate institutions that our sons attend/will attend recognize the merits of George Wythe. We are very satisfied with the outstanding education our sons received.
Brian Baker, Student | 7:51 p.m. June 2, 2009
I just finished my first year at George Wythe, and I have seen none of the
negative things people say about it. It is an amazing school. It has deepened my
thoughts and feelings, made me a better, happier person, and it is helping me
find the tools I need to make a difference in this world.
I echo everything my fellow students have said, but I also want to say the I am extremely confused at where all the negative myths come from. They are so lopsided that I can't see how anyone expects them to stand up!
I echo everything my fellow students have said, but I also want to say the I am extremely confused at where all the negative myths come from. They are so lopsided that I can't see how anyone expects them to stand up!
To: The Problem ;) | 12:05 p.m. June 3, 2009
1) GWU vision is "to build men and women of virtue, wisdom, diplomacy and
courage who inspire greatness in others and move the cause of liberty."
This is their aim, and what they I think they mean by statesmen. By this
definition there are, most definitely statesmen as mentors, students, and
graduates.
2) The curriculum does not ignore the last 250 years, but students do in fact study the writings of great men and women that made valuable contributions over that time frame. Yes there have been statesmen over the last 250, but they are rarer and rarer to find.
"Why not tap into the education they got?" They are, it just does not look the way you imply it should. GWU students study the works of people the statesmen were impacted by, as well as the works of the statesmen.
2) The curriculum does not ignore the last 250 years, but students do in fact study the writings of great men and women that made valuable contributions over that time frame. Yes there have been statesmen over the last 250, but they are rarer and rarer to find.
"Why not tap into the education they got?" They are, it just does not look the way you imply it should. GWU students study the works of people the statesmen were impacted by, as well as the works of the statesmen.
To: To: The Problem ;) | 7:16 p.m. June 3, 2009
1) So you can just change the definition of the word "statesman" to
mean what you want it to mean. The only "statesman" to graduate from
GWU is under indictment for funneling money to an Afghan warlord.
2) I thought the curriculum was the same curriculum that the founding fathers had... or am I wrong. Wasn't George Wythe Thomas Jefferson's mentor?
3) That school is filled with right-wing extremists, not statesmen. Consider the following:
The founder, Oliver DeMille wrote the following in the early 1990s while he was being mentored by Cleon Skousen and attending an unaccredited correspondence school for his Ph.D.:
"During the coming year the secret combinations and the governments they control will do a number of things to build a Satanic New World Order. President Bush and many Congressmen, who are controlled by the secret societies, will attempt to further this cause and to continue the curtailment of Freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution."
2) I thought the curriculum was the same curriculum that the founding fathers had... or am I wrong. Wasn't George Wythe Thomas Jefferson's mentor?
3) That school is filled with right-wing extremists, not statesmen. Consider the following:
The founder, Oliver DeMille wrote the following in the early 1990s while he was being mentored by Cleon Skousen and attending an unaccredited correspondence school for his Ph.D.:
"During the coming year the secret combinations and the governments they control will do a number of things to build a Satanic New World Order. President Bush and many Congressmen, who are controlled by the secret societies, will attempt to further this cause and to continue the curtailment of Freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution."
The Professor | 10:34 p.m. June 3, 2009
As a tenured Professor in Nevada's largest institution of higher learning,
I have attending 4 different graduate schools- one private and 2 state,
including George Wythe University where I have completed about half of the PhD
program there in Constitutional Law. Of the 4 graduate schools I have attended,
GWU is definitely the most rigorous and demanding by far. I have elevated the
experience of my students considerably by borrowing pedagogical techniques and
procedures from GWU. Most of my graduate colleagues at GWU are professionals
such as doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs, engineers, politicians and businessmen
and women who will likely not be advantaged in any way financially through their
degree, but who have caught the vision that original writings give them and the
excitement that simulations, oral exams and constitutional conventions provide
in understanding the world from the mouths of those whose ideas have built
it.
The best way to get an idea of what it is like to be a professor attending this demanding curriculum would be to read my article titled, "A Professor Experiences George Wythe College: A Contrast' which can be found in the the GW website under the Newsletter Archive link near the bottom.
The best way to get an idea of what it is like to be a professor attending this demanding curriculum would be to read my article titled, "A Professor Experiences George Wythe College: A Contrast' which can be found in the the GW website under the Newsletter Archive link near the bottom.
To: The Problem | 7:27 a.m. June 4, 2009
"1. a person who is experienced in the art of government or versed in the
administration of government affairs." Dictionary.com
The definition fits. Yes, QWU students are "versed in the administration of Government affairs." They do study the different forms of governments, past and present, as well as, learn how to participate in their own form of political process.
In addition to the above definition I believe that GWU is looking at building a specific kind of statesman. One with wisdom, virtue, diplomacy, and courage. A person that can inspire others to the cause of liberty and because of their knowledge of history and governments, move the cause of liberty forward.
This is not redefining, but looking at specific qualities of statesmen.
The definition fits. Yes, QWU students are "versed in the administration of Government affairs." They do study the different forms of governments, past and present, as well as, learn how to participate in their own form of political process.
In addition to the above definition I believe that GWU is looking at building a specific kind of statesman. One with wisdom, virtue, diplomacy, and courage. A person that can inspire others to the cause of liberty and because of their knowledge of history and governments, move the cause of liberty forward.
This is not redefining, but looking at specific qualities of statesmen.
To: To the Problem 7:27 AM | 3:36 p.m. June 4, 2009
The definition does not fit. Students are not versed in the administration of
government affairs, at least in the current administration of government
affairs. One must have the EXPERIENCE (see the first part of the definition) to
be VERSED in it. Being able to answer questions on a civics test does not make
somebody a statesman.
Look at the dictionary dot com (your standard, not mine) definition for statesmanship:
"the ability, qualifications, or practice of a statesman; wisdom and skill in the management of public affairs."
Ability is obtained while in office. Qualifications, well GWU is not accredited, nor are the people there qualified - given the professors lack of government or statesman experience.
All of this is a stupid argument anyway. Shanon Brooks of GWC would probably agree with me (or at least part of what I say). Listen on their website to the final GWU hour podacast. Brooks says that the school has never turned out a statesman (somewhere in the first 10 minutes). He calles them statesmen tadpoles.
Or, go ahead and keep trying to defend GWU, but you will have to argue that one with Shanon Brooks!
Look at the dictionary dot com (your standard, not mine) definition for statesmanship:
"the ability, qualifications, or practice of a statesman; wisdom and skill in the management of public affairs."
Ability is obtained while in office. Qualifications, well GWU is not accredited, nor are the people there qualified - given the professors lack of government or statesman experience.
All of this is a stupid argument anyway. Shanon Brooks of GWC would probably agree with me (or at least part of what I say). Listen on their website to the final GWU hour podacast. Brooks says that the school has never turned out a statesman (somewhere in the first 10 minutes). He calles them statesmen tadpoles.
Or, go ahead and keep trying to defend GWU, but you will have to argue that one with Shanon Brooks!
Redlaw | 12:16 p.m. June 6, 2009
Evidence of the need for modern day Statesmanship and Liberal Arts Education is
only underscored by the amount of opposition presented in the process of
delivery. It is facinating to observe as one applauds the valient effort to
move forward regardless of the opposition. This is Classic!!
To: Redlaw | 3:54 p.m. June 7, 2009
What are you talking about?
Re: The Professor | 1:13 p.m. June 8, 2009
"As a tenured Professor in Nevada's largest institution of higher
learning..."
You teach at a community college, sir. Another example of GWU people exaggerating and obfuscating.
You teach at a community college, sir. Another example of GWU people exaggerating and obfuscating.
Eric | 3:23 p.m. June 8, 2009
I think Redlaw nailed it: Those who are upset--are not upset because the school
is not accredited or because they have dug up dirt on its original founder or
because of how they define a Statesman. Generally, those who are upset simply
hate Conservatives and what they stand for. They are grasping at anything they
can to discredit an institution they perceive as a threat.
And now, with the caliber of those who attended last weeks Gala recruiting for the school--George Wythe University becomes a real threat to liberal ideology and indoctrination. That said, I dont disagree with the criticisms: The school should continue to work hard to raise the money needed for accreditation; however, I understand the founder has very little to do with the school anymore--so his degree is simply not an issue; and I dont care how liberals define Statesmen.
Frankly, when liberals start splitting hairs--like what the definition of the word IS is--I dont expect to see a credible answer (or a Statesman). So let conservatives have their school and turn out conservative statesmen in embryo (as they define, and get over it)!
And now, with the caliber of those who attended last weeks Gala recruiting for the school--George Wythe University becomes a real threat to liberal ideology and indoctrination. That said, I dont disagree with the criticisms: The school should continue to work hard to raise the money needed for accreditation; however, I understand the founder has very little to do with the school anymore--so his degree is simply not an issue; and I dont care how liberals define Statesmen.
Frankly, when liberals start splitting hairs--like what the definition of the word IS is--I dont expect to see a credible answer (or a Statesman). So let conservatives have their school and turn out conservative statesmen in embryo (as they define, and get over it)!
Dear Eric, | 6:01 p.m. June 8, 2009
I have posted several critical comments on this blog. I am not liberal. Are you
just trolling for comments? Just because I criticize George Wythe University
doesn't mean I am a liberal. In fact, I was a member of the college
republicans until I stopped being affiliated with political parties in 2003, I
have voted for principled leaders (some republican some democrat) for the last
10 years. I live in a state that is more conservative than Utah (Kansas), and I
love it here.
I don't think that GWU is a conservative school. I think that they are very right wing. There seems to be greater ideological alignment with paranoid, right-wing extremists that inhabit the areas where GWU draws its students (such as Southern Utah). Just listen to some of the GWU radio podcasts. You will hear bitter right wingers who cling to their God and guns.
Please Eric, turn off the "conservative" AM radio and stop accusing people of being liberals.
I don't think that GWU is a conservative school. I think that they are very right wing. There seems to be greater ideological alignment with paranoid, right-wing extremists that inhabit the areas where GWU draws its students (such as Southern Utah). Just listen to some of the GWU radio podcasts. You will hear bitter right wingers who cling to their God and guns.
Please Eric, turn off the "conservative" AM radio and stop accusing people of being liberals.
Dear Eric II | 9:18 a.m. June 10, 2009
The founder of the school still has very much to do with it. He's still on
the board, and the current president even begged followers to pray for his
health in his most recent address. DeMille is still very much a part of George
Wythe University. And the current president isn't much different -- he got
his degrees from the same unaccredited school he now presides over.
JoeSwiss | 5:15 a.m. June 16, 2009
Yoohoo, the bigger picture is that GW is onto something.
If you want to learn about the Constitution, you either study on your own (until your zeal burns out; you're left to own guidance, etc.); or enroll in an expensive law school (where "Constitutional studies" is only a part of a larger obligatory curriculum, where the assumption is you want a job afterwards in law; have to compete in and pass entrance exam, etc.).
Where can you get a nice middle ground? -- ie, for someone who wants to learn about the Constitution (and only that) but doesn't aim for a job in the law later -- for the educated citizen, conscientious about their duty to be civics-knowledgeable.
None that I have found, except GW.
If they can fix the accreditation issue, I think they have almost a monopoly on a decent-sized market. Constitutional awareness is a subject that grows in importance every day. Just look at Congress. What's their approval rating nowadays, 9%???
If you want to learn about the Constitution, you either study on your own (until your zeal burns out; you're left to own guidance, etc.); or enroll in an expensive law school (where "Constitutional studies" is only a part of a larger obligatory curriculum, where the assumption is you want a job afterwards in law; have to compete in and pass entrance exam, etc.).
Where can you get a nice middle ground? -- ie, for someone who wants to learn about the Constitution (and only that) but doesn't aim for a job in the law later -- for the educated citizen, conscientious about their duty to be civics-knowledgeable.
None that I have found, except GW.
If they can fix the accreditation issue, I think they have almost a monopoly on a decent-sized market. Constitutional awareness is a subject that grows in importance every day. Just look at Congress. What's their approval rating nowadays, 9%???
Tim | 2:41 p.m. June 16, 2009
I can only speak for myself. I have attended several courses through George
Wythe University in the past, and I am currently enrolled at my local
(accredited) community college. Just to compare them, what was required of me
at GWU in a single history class FAR surpasses all the course work I have in the
3 classes I am currently taking from the community college (math, history, and
philosophy). In fact, its a joke to even compare them. In my course at GWU, I
spent considerable time critically-studying the original writings of the
American Founders, and other national and international thinkers and writers.
The school is not just a "right-wing extremist" school. Granted, many
of the students and staff are very conservative, but if you use that as an
argument against the school, you're pretty close-minded. That's like
saying a fruit tree isn't a legitimate fruit tree because it doesn't
produce Pears AND peaches. I'm not saying the school is perfect. It
definitely has its flaws. But who are you to sit there and criticize it? You
have no more credibility than the people you are criticizing.
Me | 11:41 p.m. June 25, 2009
I am 51 years old and an engineer by trade. I attended the
traditional/accredited schools for my BS and MBA and I have made good money, but
5 or 6 years ago I began to thirst for something else. I enrolled in GWU's
PhD program and for the last four years I have read more books than in the other
30 plus years. I like having a balance of traditional and non-traditional and
GWU is non-traditional. I don't see the college promoting only one point
of view. Dr. DeMille even invites out of the box thinking. I am currently in
Europe on the school's 31 day trip and it has been one of the greatest
experiences of my life. We are going places that most groups do not go and our
tour director from EF said we are one of the best behaved groups he has ever
seen. We are ambassadors and America really needs to clean up its image for the
European people.
Alumni | 2:31 p.m. June 29, 2009
As I read through the comments I feel sad that some people feel the need to
discredit GWU on the grounds of accreditation. The school is young. I graduated
in 2003 and attended knowing that it was unaccredited and not knowing if it
would be. I am happy that they are pursuing accreditation especially for foreign
students. Its also nice to have a standard by which students can transfer from
one school to another. But in the end, its not absolutely necessary. It is a bit
more challenging to face the world that leans so heavily on accreditation and
sometimes it takes a little extra effort and time to build something great. That
is the beauty of it. Graduates are doing; they are writing, building
organizations and making a difference. Other schools produce great students as
well, but I am extremely grateful for the rigorous studies, and for the
professors at GWU.
From a graduate | 2:51 p.m. June 29, 2009
If GWU is considered a diploma mill by some, it is because they have not come to
GWU and experienced the rigor of reading stacks of classics from different
fields of study, participating in hundreds of discussions that challenge
assumptions, oral examinations, taken on roles in dozens of difficult
simulations and then applied it all through field-experience, all of this before
graduation. After graduation, you find yourself thrust into a world of impact.
The momentum of having discovered the Great Conversation portends a life of
additional studies in the classics. You have a sort-of arsenal of education,
which comes in handy in so many ways and in so many aspects of life. How can you
put a price on such an education or compare it with what might be called job
mill institutions? They are simply different. GWU prepares students for graduate
studies if that is what a students want. This year students will be attending
St. Johns, Columbia, Acton and George Washington University, to name a few. If a
person wants a challenging powerful education, GWU is a great place to go about
it. I would recommend this kind of higher education to anyone, without
reservation.
An inocent observer | 1:55 p.m. June 30, 2009
One of the arguments I have seen against GWU is the fact that it is uncredited
and that you can't get a decent job by attending . I woUld like to point
out that people who go to GWU know that, and that's not why they go. They
go to GWU to gain a leadership education, to prepare themselves to make a
difference in the world, to help Them fulfill a mission they feel God called
them to accomplish. At least that's the case with everyone I know who has
attended GWU.
Kurt | 1:48 p.m. July 13, 2009
When I first heard about GWU I was intrigued and became progressively more
excited about the idea of a university based on the type of education that
someone like John Adams recieved at Harvard in the 1760's. Obviously you
can't recreate the exact experience but nevertheless I was happy to see
that a virtuous education was still important to some people. However, if I
could introduce a new argument. I will never pay for an education. I read the
classics on my own. I don't pay someone to watch me do it. I don't
feed on the scraps of education handed down to me by over educated and under
inteligent professors at accredited colleges either. The majority of these
comments are so stupid, so arbitrary, that I can only attribute them to higher
education. The stupidest people I know go to or went to college. They argue over
tiny matters and miss the big picture. I own my own business. I dont what I
want. I learn what I want. This is America. No one tells me how to learn, where
to learn or what to learn. That is freedom. That is Liberty.
Julie | 11:30 a.m. July 27, 2009
I can understand many of the negative arguments posted on this site. They are
congruent with those individuals that are concerned about credentials and
job-training. It is true that GWU is not in the business to train for specific
careers or to hand out credentials. Those are obtained by the great
institutions of higher learning in the traditional setting.
As a student at GWU and a mother of six children, I am seeking to improve myself by studying the classics and learning under a challenging mentor, discussing with other students, being confronted by ideas that challenge my own. I want an education that will allow me to learn what I NEED TO KNOW for me and my life. In the future, I will continue my education at a traditional university in order to receive specialty training for a specific career.
The point is that GWU is a different kind of education. It is not the same as a traditional university and cannot be compared. Both are necessary for becoming a leader.
As a student at GWU and a mother of six children, I am seeking to improve myself by studying the classics and learning under a challenging mentor, discussing with other students, being confronted by ideas that challenge my own. I want an education that will allow me to learn what I NEED TO KNOW for me and my life. In the future, I will continue my education at a traditional university in order to receive specialty training for a specific career.
The point is that GWU is a different kind of education. It is not the same as a traditional university and cannot be compared. Both are necessary for becoming a leader.
GW debate | 2:27 p.m. July 28, 2009
"The Great Conversation" was mentioned earlier. Actually, it is kind
of an argument about what is true. On this site, a form of the debate continues.
Freedom to express one's views without fear of violence is a crucial part
of America's freedom.
The debate will go on forever as long as there is freedom, as it should. It raises questions and prods people to find answers.
Attending GW has given me this perspective. In America there should be freedom to choose your candidate, your laundry detergent, your religion and your education. As long as morals are strong, the truth will win in the end.
The debate will go on forever as long as there is freedom, as it should. It raises questions and prods people to find answers.
Attending GW has given me this perspective. In America there should be freedom to choose your candidate, your laundry detergent, your religion and your education. As long as morals are strong, the truth will win in the end.
David | 9:41 a.m. Sept. 16, 2009
I'm no fan of GWU, and from what I read it sounds like there's a fair
amount of indoctrination going on there, or at least immersion in a far-right
echo-chamber, that will ultimately insulate its students, particularly the young
ones, from gaining a measured outlook on world affairs. On the other hand,
there are many departments at respected schools that basically do the same thing
on the left, and it's something that's frequently and rightly
criticized. GWU's sin is probably not the lack of commitment to providing
an excellent education. I suspect that it's a heavy dose of hubris and
wishful thinking. GWU aspires to be something great, and isn't shy about
sharing its lofty aims. But for the time being, it falls far short of that
goal.
David | 9:46 a.m. Sept. 16, 2009
To continue..
In order to have the hope of achieving its ambitious aims, it has to put on a brave face and, to some extent, pretend to be something it's not. That's probably not fair to the more naive of its students, but I suspect many of its older students are fully aware of the situation, and see their education there not as a legitimate university degree, but as a personal growth experience. It's unfair to call GWU a diploma mill. It seems that students really do have to work to get their education there. I think it's quite possible that they're getting an excellent, if one-sided and fringe, education.
Frankly, I love the idea of having people engaged in the political process who have made an effort to develop their critical reasoning skills, even if it's in a right wing echo chamber. I just fear that many of the students at GWU are kind of getting a snow job. Don't some of the supporting comments here give off a distinct snow job whiff?
In order to have the hope of achieving its ambitious aims, it has to put on a brave face and, to some extent, pretend to be something it's not. That's probably not fair to the more naive of its students, but I suspect many of its older students are fully aware of the situation, and see their education there not as a legitimate university degree, but as a personal growth experience. It's unfair to call GWU a diploma mill. It seems that students really do have to work to get their education there. I think it's quite possible that they're getting an excellent, if one-sided and fringe, education.
Frankly, I love the idea of having people engaged in the political process who have made an effort to develop their critical reasoning skills, even if it's in a right wing echo chamber. I just fear that many of the students at GWU are kind of getting a snow job. Don't some of the supporting comments here give off a distinct snow job whiff?
Kathy | 4:39 p.m. Sept. 16, 2009
Is this whole thing a joke? I can't believe anyone in the world takes this
school seriously. I'd invite anyone who is paying tuition there to stop
right now. Save your money. Just read your Skousen books, pray to the founding
fathers, get on some homeschool message boards, and after a few years of doing
that, ask your friends to high-five you. Then, just start calling your
high-five a Ph.D.
Same thing, just cheaper. You're welcome.
Same thing, just cheaper. You're welcome.
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