Deseret News | Mountain Meadow massacre myths and misconceptions

Reader comments
Mountain Meadow massacre myths and misconceptions

Timothy | 1:16 p.m. May 29, 2009

If one is really interested in this topic i would suggest the following books for further enlightenment...First "The Mountain Meadows Massacre" by Juanita Brooks,second "Massacre At Mountain Meadows" by Ronald Walker,Richard Turley, and Glen Leonard,third "Blood of the Prophets:Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows" by Will Bagely;with the first and third offering a great deal of detail about John D. Lee and the first and second trials...Walker,Turley,and Leonard end their account at the finish of the massacre itself,mentioning Lees trial and execution briefly..But they have said that the trial and execution of Lee is a story in itself;and i believe a book about that subject is in the works...Whatever your beliefs I cannot help but think that something went terribly wrong in southern Utah those few days...Paranoia,misguided loyalties,lust for revenge,and just plain and simple evil led to this atrocious deed...There is no way to justify the killings;but maybe we can try to understand what makes humans act the way they sometime do...

Meh... | 1:47 p.m. May 29, 2009

you don't understand human nature if you don't think such a thing is possible in any society. The mormons living in Southern Utah were remarkably tame, considering their love of the Old Testament.

Virgil | 2:53 p.m. May 29, 2009

Yes,human nature is quite often hard to understand; and horrendous,despicable deeds are possible in any society...However(at least in modern western societies)we try to get people to control their basest desires and impulses...A large portion of the blame for Mountain Meadows should go to those persons who willingly drove up the passions of normally good people to a point where they committed horrible crimes against their fellow man..Even allowing for the belief that the immigrants had poisoned springs and dead cattle in order to slaughter native americans,the cold blooded execution of innocent children can have no justification in this world or the one to come...Also,in order to maintain context,it must be said that the vast majority of the residents of southern Utah were innocent of this crime...Of all those who were involved, only John D. Lee was executed;but the others are being punished as we speak... we will never entirely know what happened at Mountain Meadows..To paraphrase Winston Churchill"It is an enigma ,wrapped inside a riddle,wrapped inside a rhyme"...

Comments continue below

Mad in Cedar City | 3:46 p.m. May 29, 2009

How about the facts that those settlers from Arkansas killed Parley Pratt and they said they had the guns that killed Joseph and Hyrum and they had some oxen they named Brigham and Joseph. And plus,all those men who were accused have had all their church privileges and blessings restored,even John D. Lee. If you want to know about southern Utah,ask people that live here;we know all about it and have nothing to hide.

To Cedar CIty | 4:12 p.m. May 29, 2009

"Better to keep silent and be thought a fool,than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

Shame on you! | 4:57 p.m. May 29, 2009

With all these continuing articles on Deseret News, written on the M M Massacre, are not giving anyone spiritual peace. It is not the Fanchers group that are causing the problems it is the LDS church and Deseret News. Shame on you folks!!! Leave this awful event alone, and leave the descendants from the M M M in peace. I am truly sick and tired of these hydrous, ridiculous articles that deliberately rile and play on the emotions and nerves of some the LDS members deliberately, and causing some to leave the church. Do you people enjoy making enemy's? PLEASE STOP THIS HATE! Go ask God for mercy for what you are doing to others.

SFC RET DENNIS | 6:34 p.m. May 29, 2009

As a LDS member I have been truly sadden by MMW, every person involved should have been executed. There is and was no excuse for cold blooded murder. These people were unarmed, and what of the children? In spite of all the horrible atrocities done to early members there is steel no excuse for murder, cold blooded or otherwise. It would have been fair better for the murders to have faced punishment in this life then the one to come. All faiths have their dark past but rather it is one bad thank or many it is "NEVER" justified. May the murdered have been received in to glory and may God pass swift judgment on the murderers. It don't matter what faith you are there are those you can trust and those you cannot trust. Before you act be sure you are doing what God wont and let God be the judge.

kenny | 8:02 p.m. May 29, 2009

I would like to dig into the personal journals of the people living in Southern Utah at that time,study their lives,the social climate of the day,the laws that governed at the time,etc.We know that those responsible for this were members of the church but I wonder what the church "was" in the minds of the saints back then compared to today.Carthage,Missouri,Ohio,etc were all on the minds of the people.The gospel was still new and they were still trying to "figure it all out." Maybe some day we will see closure.Maybe.

K-Ray | 10:31 p.m. May 29, 2009

It is what it is! Tomorrow is always brighter than today or yesterday. Lets move on.

Just my opinion

Anonymous | 1:41 p.m. May 30, 2009

As a descendant of John D. Lee, I have access to many personal journals from him and others in our family. It is the consensus of these writings that John D. Lee was well-beloved by Brigham Young (an "adopted son"), until Brigham Young engaged in a coverup and targeted John D. Lee as the scapegoat and arranged for him to be tried unfairly and then executed for MMM. John D. Lee maintained on his "deathbed" that he was only following orders that came down through the Church lines of authority and the militia lines of authority (they were the same lines of authority) from Brigham Young himself!

If faithful Latter-day Saints think Joseph Smith sealed his testimony with his blood, and must have been telling the truth about angels and gold plates if he was willing to DIE for it, then what does this say about the testimony of John D. Lee who gave his testimony that Brigham was responsible WHILE STANDING AT THE FIRING SQUAD with his casket behind him?????

Wake up you fools!

Re 1:41 | 4:51 p.m. May 30, 2009

I am in total agreement with what you have posted. I cannot understand why the church continues to hide some of the most true facts about the massacre, that you have mentioned here. It is like it is easier to shove the blame on someone of lesser status rather than that of Brigham Young. Why can't the LDS church simply be honest. What has happened is unfair to all. BUT lying about it makes it that much even more EVIL.

What you have said about John Doyle Lee is the truth, and I thank you for posting.

Anonymous | 4:57 p.m. May 30, 2009

The gall. Why doesn't the LDS Church turn this land over to the families of those their followers murdered, kidnapped their children and took their property?

Anonymous | 5:19 p.m. May 30, 2009

It's way too easy too dog Mormons here. I admit, I'm guilty myself.

If you read the comments in this paper, you read a meanness. Just mention Obama, Latino or anyone whose on the conservative attack list and you read the nastiest remarks there.

I have family histories here, I had to stop reading. Once was the cruelest attack I've ever read about a long dead father. Reading through these documents that were send to show my family's great Mormon heritage, a streak of this hatred runs through it.

I remember this from my childhood in Utah.

I've come to the conclusion, this deep resentment is as old as Mormonism. This was the root cause of this tragic event.

Today, Mexicans are "them." Once, the Francher Party was "them."

If you write Mexicans ruined California, its blindly accepted as fact. I have yet to read one Utahan bring up agriculture is California's largest economic sector that is carried on the back of Mexicans. Blaming "them" comes as naturally to many Mormons as swimming comes to ducks.

Both sides of this story need to learn to forgive.

TO Anonymous 4:57 | 5:20 p.m. May 30, 2009

I think the reason the church hasn't turned the property over to whoever-?-is because it belongs to the LDS church. The LDS church will always take better care of the monument because they have the money to do so, rather than the MMM descendants. The Church will take better care of this monument than they have with the history of this infamous event. No need to worry.

Anonymous | 5:46 p.m. May 30, 2009

TO Anonymous 4:57 | 5:20 p.m Aren't you being sanctimonious? You believe the ancestors of these dead lack the concern to care for this site. Have you been there? This site was left barren for years in disrepair.

I have a personal stake here. My ancestor was there. He was a boy that held the horses while this happened.

The LDS Church today, owns the land where my family's graves are in Johnson Canyon. Once William Derby's home was still there. The LDS bishop in Kanab order it burned to the ground. THe church hasn't done much to keep the graves of my LDS ancestors.

What do I know?

Lost for words | 11:41 p.m. May 30, 2009

Well, you folks don't know how hard it is to descend down through both Brigham Young and John D. Lee.

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