Reader comments
It's (Zion) 'curtains' for restaurant booze barriers
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Here | 6:47 a.m. May 11, 2009
Here in my state in the union we can go for a beer or a "hard" drink,
bring along the kids, and have a great meal. Did Friday night. We watch sports
channels, can play pool, talk to the mayor, say HI to the college coaches, and
laugh at the kids eating their french fries and having a big burger.
No one drunk. Lots of boys meet girls thing for the over 18 crowd.
LIfe is good, and rationale, in my little state of the union.
So sorry for my home state. How utterly stupid to change one law and add another.
Get out and see how the world handles booze and kids and families. It will shock you, you Utahns.
No one drunk. Lots of boys meet girls thing for the over 18 crowd.
LIfe is good, and rationale, in my little state of the union.
So sorry for my home state. How utterly stupid to change one law and add another.
Get out and see how the world handles booze and kids and families. It will shock you, you Utahns.
Anonymous | 7:35 a.m. May 11, 2009
Methinks Utahns maketh too big a dealeth about boozeth.
Comments continue below
Re Progress | 7:44 a.m. May 11, 2009
Go back to your bubble if you love it so much. We all don't view the
changes in ridiculous liquor laws as "signs of the times" like you
extremists. I for one love seeing old, ignorant ways of Utah beginning to
change.
About time | 7:48 a.m. May 11, 2009
This is about as silly as it can be. Restaurants now have to card anyone who
appears young. The state polices the restaurants and fines any establishment
and the waiter if the waiter does check ID before serving a drink.
If restaurants are ID'ing anyone that wants to drink, why are the politicians so worried about anyone 21 or younger being in the bar portion of a restaurant? They can't get a drink because they are ID'd.
In our restaurant, everyone must walk past the bar to get to the restaurants. Does this mean that the young can't go to the bathroom? Maybe we need a plastic shield so they can get to the bathroom?
Our state legislators need to get real. Our teenagers if they want to drink find ways to drink right now and are doing so. Who are they really protecting?
If restaurants are ID'ing anyone that wants to drink, why are the politicians so worried about anyone 21 or younger being in the bar portion of a restaurant? They can't get a drink because they are ID'd.
In our restaurant, everyone must walk past the bar to get to the restaurants. Does this mean that the young can't go to the bathroom? Maybe we need a plastic shield so they can get to the bathroom?
Our state legislators need to get real. Our teenagers if they want to drink find ways to drink right now and are doing so. Who are they really protecting?
To: Here | 7:57 a.m. May 11, 2009
I h-a-v-e been out in the rest of the World, and also to 49 of the U.S. States.
With few exceptions all have peculiar "liquor" laws of one shape or
another. Utah just compares unfavorably next to "anything goes" states
like California and Nevada. Most East Coast states have Blue laws of verying
degree and restrictions on where and when you can buy hard Liquor.
To bad so sad | 8:25 a.m. May 11, 2009
If you hate the laws leave. Just don't drive drunk on your way out of
here.
Ludicrous laws | 9:04 a.m. May 11, 2009
I'm as LDS as the next Utah County resident, and even I can't
understand why some of my fellow Mormons feel compelled to stick their noses
where they're not needed. Here's the deal: No kid is going to start
drinking because they've seen a drink poured at a restaurant. Drinking is
a legal activity in this state, and I'm not aware of any incidences of
second-hand drunkenness caused by poured-drink vapors, so if my fellow Utahn
wants a drink, I say, "Bottoms up!" Heck, if you're a non-LDS
friend of mine and you're thirsty, then the drink's on me! ANY sort
of barrier is intrusive and pointless, and serves no purpose but to erect walls
between me and my friends who just happen to not also be Mormon.
RE:Progress | 9:11 a.m. May 11, 2009
I bet you are one of the people who serve non-alcoholic cider at family holidays
pretending its a fine bottle of wine and pouring it in plain view of your
children and then serving it to your kids and now here you are trying to save my
kids from seeing a beer being poured.
-No2taxes
-No2taxes
timothy | 9:16 a.m. May 11, 2009
To the person who is allegedly familiar with state liquor laws...I grew up in
North Carolina and am very familiar with east coast liquor restrictions;what few
they are..North Carolina sells hard liquor through state stores and they are
open Monday through Saturday in most locations;with some open on Sunday ..one
can purchase beer and wine at any convenience or grocery store...This is in the
most conservative state (as far liquor sales are concerned)on the east
coast..Farther up north the laws are much more liberal in most areas;as people
on the east coast do not let politicians and church leaders tell them what to
drink and when..There are problems with drunken drivers; but i would be
interested in the number of utah residents who are arrested for this crime
yearly per capita...Likewise, out your way,Montana,Arizona,New
Mexico,Idaho,Wyoming and Washington all have much less restriction on alcohol
consumption in comparison with Utah..So the next time you visit the real
world,drop by and have a nice shot of bourbon,at least then you might comment
accurately on the topic at hand...
Al | 9:56 a.m. May 11, 2009
These laws seem so superficial, nothing really changed. Do the people of Utah
think that they are the only state that wants to stop underage drinking? Utah
acts like the Zion curtain is so much more effective than anything other states
have done to curtail underage drinking, It completely ludicrous. This is just a
guess, but, what if Utah looked at the alcohol policies of different states and
then looks at the states underage drinking rate and tried to figure out what
really worked to lower the underage drinking rate? If the Zion curtain worked,
wouldnt other states use it? That why Utah liquor laws always look so stupid
Al | 9:57 a.m. May 11, 2009
Also Utah I grew up on the east coast and no, Im not LDS, but my parents tried
as hard as possible to raise 3 great children. Just because I did not grow up
LDS does not mean my parents promoted sex, drinking, and drugs. My parents
struggled with the same things parents in Utah struggle with. So please Utah,
get off your soap box and stop pretending youre the only good parents in this
country trying to raise the only good children. Parents in the rest of America
fight the same battles you parents do every day in Utah.
Hatuletoh | 10:29 a.m. May 11, 2009
I've asked this question before, and I will ask it again: has anyone
actually measured the effects on underage drinking and/or drunken driving of the
alcohol control measures? Because I would be in favor of restrictions that
reduce those two things; conversely I am opposed to measures that do not reduce
those two things as unnecessary government interference with private
business.
Too many times, especially in Utah, liquor laws are passed and rescinded on emotional grounds--people of both sides of the issue are guilty of this. What we need is some dispassionate research into what works and what does not.
Too many times, especially in Utah, liquor laws are passed and rescinded on emotional grounds--people of both sides of the issue are guilty of this. What we need is some dispassionate research into what works and what does not.
Anonymous | 10:34 a.m. May 11, 2009
I live in wonderfully free and liberal California.
A person can purchase hard liquor in any grocery store 24/7 without getting the stink-eye from any sanctimonious intolerant jerk.
This is the way it should be in the home of the free.
A person can purchase hard liquor in any grocery store 24/7 without getting the stink-eye from any sanctimonious intolerant jerk.
This is the way it should be in the home of the free.
Master Sergeant TJM | 11:12 a.m. May 11, 2009
I grew up in Utah and graduated from Spanish Fork in 85. Yes Utah has some weird
laws as far as bars/resturants. But I sure remember meat heads that could find
liquor and beer. I have been in the Army for 19 years none of which where in
Utah, in fact I live in Texas/Iraq right now and there are many counties that
are completely dry. The residents in the affected counties have to drive 40 or
50 miles to get their alcohol. So Utah is not as fundemental/sactimonious as
some of the specious comments I've read on this topic.
HarryL | 11:33 a.m. May 11, 2009
I think Utah laws look stupid because part of them rise from guilt for casting
the last vote to end Prohibition. I happen to live in California. Anyone
bothering to look at how this State is doing lately before they begin to lavish
praise on its implosion towards anarchy, pervasive deception, greed, high prison
populations, a collapsing economy, and so on. The disease is getting worse and
taking a greater toll.
Randall | 11:36 a.m. May 11, 2009
I Ain't Gunna Drink In Utah No More When They Stop Charging Me For A
Seat.
ds | 11:42 a.m. May 11, 2009
"We're trying to keep kids out of bars. That's the whole
goal," said Sen. John Valentine, R-Orem, the new law's sponsor.
Mr. Valentine it is not the state's responsibility to keep kids out of bars. That belongs to parents and the bar owners. It is already illegal for kids to enter bars. It's the parent's responsibility to choose restaurants for their families.
The state government should not be a nanny for it's citizens.
Mr. Valentine it is not the state's responsibility to keep kids out of bars. That belongs to parents and the bar owners. It is already illegal for kids to enter bars. It's the parent's responsibility to choose restaurants for their families.
The state government should not be a nanny for it's citizens.
RE: TJM | 11:49 a.m. May 11, 2009
I COULD NOT FIND THE EXACT NUMBER, BUT, VIA WIKIPEDIA, I LOOKED AT THE NUMBER OF
COUNTIES PER STATE THAT ARE "DRY." ON AVERAGE THERE ARE 1 TO 4
COUNTIES, TYPICALLY, PER STATE THAT OUTLAW THE SALE OF ALCOHOL. THERE ARE NO
MAJOR CITYS THAT TRY AND BAN THE USE OF ALCOHOL. THE ABOVE POINT IS MISLEADING.
ROUGHLY LESS THAN 1 PERCENT OF THE LAND MASS AND POPULATION OF THE US IS A DRY
COUNTY. THE PROBLEM IS UTAH IS A STATE NOT A SMALL COUNTY.
ANY WAY, SHOULD UTAH BE FOLLOWING THE LEAD OF SMALL COUNTIES AROUND AMERICA??
ANY WAY, SHOULD UTAH BE FOLLOWING THE LEAD OF SMALL COUNTIES AROUND AMERICA??
What the...? | 11:54 a.m. May 11, 2009
None of this makes any sense, especially the part where this is supposed to curb
teen drinking.
Keeping minors out of the bar areas of restaurants is fair enough. But to say that keeps teens from drinking?
News flash:
1. Teens aren't drinking in bars and restaurants! They're doing it elsewhere, in secret and among themselves in garages and basements and parks and campsites and parties.
2. Hiding drink preparation doesn't help anything, and will probably only make the attraction worse for teens. They're not stupid. They know it's there, and making it into something secretive will only make them want it more. You don't see anybody buying, selling, or smoking marijuana in retail establishments, do you? It's not only kept hidden, it's illegal. And yet people all over the place, including teens, find it and use it.
I'm not saying everything should be free and unrestricted, but that hiding alcohol from view in restaurants and bars has nothing to do with whether teens -- or anybody, for that matter -- will want it or drink it.
Keeping minors out of the bar areas of restaurants is fair enough. But to say that keeps teens from drinking?
News flash:
1. Teens aren't drinking in bars and restaurants! They're doing it elsewhere, in secret and among themselves in garages and basements and parks and campsites and parties.
2. Hiding drink preparation doesn't help anything, and will probably only make the attraction worse for teens. They're not stupid. They know it's there, and making it into something secretive will only make them want it more. You don't see anybody buying, selling, or smoking marijuana in retail establishments, do you? It's not only kept hidden, it's illegal. And yet people all over the place, including teens, find it and use it.
I'm not saying everything should be free and unrestricted, but that hiding alcohol from view in restaurants and bars has nothing to do with whether teens -- or anybody, for that matter -- will want it or drink it.
Chance | 11:58 a.m. May 11, 2009
Listen people, Utah is a great place to live compared to many places. Sure, you
have your annoying circumstances, but laws that may seem protectionist or nanny
state, have also provided Utahns with a fairly good environment to raise a
family in. I have one question: How will it be in Zion? (considering Christ
himself will be the Governor.)How will he feel about it?
Chance | 11:59 a.m. May 11, 2009
To me, the Zion curtain is sort of like a speed bump. Effective deterrent to
unfettered alcohol delivery...speed.
Anonymous | 12:33 p.m. May 11, 2009
I suppose there are some people who need to be told exactly what to do and not
to do 24/7.
I am not one of them.
I am not one of them.
Henry Drummond | 12:35 p.m. May 11, 2009
I don't drink and I'm not a Mormon so I guess I don't have a
horse in this race. I have to tell you though that I just don't see where
these laws have any deterrent effect on the problem drinker. I have had several
people from law enforcement tell me these laws are ineffective and only serve to
create such an air of "forbidden fruit" that actually encourages
youngsters to want to find out what all the secrecy is about rather than
deterring them.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Master Sergeant TJM | 12:40 p.m. May 11, 2009
I do not want Utah to follow the dry counties lead all I was saying was Utah is
not that bad. At least people can buy liquor in all the Utah counties. I also
agree with many of the other comments that say it is a parents duty to teach our
kids not the state. If that is the case they (Utah) should ban everything that
is agaist the LDS churches teachings like the internet/R Rated movies
theaters/tobacco/swearing and so on and so on. Utimatley it is just not going to
happen. Their are just to many non-LDS citzens in Utah now so the laws probably
should and need to change.
Re: Chance | 12:40 p.m. May 11, 2009
"How will it be in Zion? (considering Christ himself will be the
Governor.)How will he feel about it?"
I am sorry to bring this up, but, under the first amendment "free exercise of religion" is guaranteed. One of Americas founding father, Thomas Jefferson, said there needs to be a "wall of separation" between church and state. So asking the state to implement a law on religious belief is unconstitutional. If you want the state to regulate alcohol, sex, reading material or anything for religious reasons is unconstitutional. So when discussing laws or powers granted to government, please do not bring Christ into it. I feel, and I think the constitution agrees, that there is no place for Gods in laws.
I am sorry to bring this up, but, under the first amendment "free exercise of religion" is guaranteed. One of Americas founding father, Thomas Jefferson, said there needs to be a "wall of separation" between church and state. So asking the state to implement a law on religious belief is unconstitutional. If you want the state to regulate alcohol, sex, reading material or anything for religious reasons is unconstitutional. So when discussing laws or powers granted to government, please do not bring Christ into it. I feel, and I think the constitution agrees, that there is no place for Gods in laws.
Anonymous | 1:35 p.m. May 11, 2009
Anonymous | 7:35 a.m. May 11, 2009
Methinks Utahns maketh too big a dealeth about boozeth.
Methinks I would rathereth have Millsap anywayeth.
Methinks Utahns maketh too big a dealeth about boozeth.
Methinks I would rathereth have Millsap anywayeth.
Kids and alcohol | 1:55 p.m. May 11, 2009
My children see me regularly enjoying a glass of wine with dinner. The
accompany me to restaurants and watch my wife and I enjoy wine with our food.
Most of the civilized world teaches children moderation and responsible drinking
by example. When you hide alcohol, it simply makes it forbidden fruit. All of
the kids I know who had trouble with alcohol in college were LDS, and the
forbidden fruit was too tempting. I, on the other hand, grew up with moderate
drinking parents, and graduated with high honors, and have 4 post-graduate
degrees. This is a question of education by example -- not hiding things from
children. What else do we hide hear? Sex. Oh yeah, Utah is the porn capital of
the U.S. Wonder why?
Randall | 1:57 p.m. May 11, 2009
"Beer Is Proof God Wants Us To Be Happy And Prosper"
Ben Franklin
Ben Franklin
THE | 2:01 p.m. May 11, 2009
small town i lived in on the TENN/VA border was dry as a bone.But 7 miles away
in VA you could get all you wanted.This small store in this small town had the
highest alcohol sales of any store in the entire state,including RICHMOND,go
figure.Then TENN after all those years figured out all the millions of $$$ they
were losing to VA and guess what??They voted in alcohol.
Anonymous | 2:05 p.m. May 11, 2009
Is it just me, or does the phrase "Zion curtain" make anyone else feel
like the back of their neck is trying to crawl away w/o them?
Anonymous | 2:13 p.m. May 11, 2009
I miss having breakfast in Utah.
"Do you want cream for your coffee?"
"What and cut the caffeine?"
I would get some great reactions.
I don't drink liquor. I was watching drinks being mixed here in California. No one pours an once. Many pours are two ozs.
Utahans are getting ripped off.
"Do you want cream for your coffee?"
"What and cut the caffeine?"
I would get some great reactions.
I don't drink liquor. I was watching drinks being mixed here in California. No one pours an once. Many pours are two ozs.
Utahans are getting ripped off.
Jon B. Holbrook | 2:45 p.m. May 11, 2009
The term, "Zion's Curtain", is rather common in the anti-Mormon
press. I thought that the "Deseret News" was owned by The Church Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints. If the journalists adopt the attitude of the
enemies of the Church, then there is really no difference between the Deseret
News and the Salt Lake Tribune. Maybe this is why the Deseret News is losing
subscribers. Maybe the Desnews can ask for a government bailout. I understand
Senator John Kerry is working on government bailouts for the nation's
newspapers. But I have a better idea, defend the cause of the Latter-day Zion.
In the words of Mr. Spock, the Desnews would then live long and prosper.
State thinks... | 3:05 p.m. May 11, 2009
Teens and youths of this state are complete morons. If they don't see it
made then what....they won't know it's alcoholic...they won't
know how to make it? what is being accomplished? Keeping kids and teens away
from the bar is fine, in fact a good idea. but treating them like they are all
stupid and can't add 1 and 2 together is absurd. If kids want to know how
to mix drinks, there are plenty of websites devoted to exactly how to do so.
But the state must think they are all to dim witted to find it on the internet
too...In order to curd underage smoking we should move all tobacco sales to the
back ally behind the dumpster so kids can't see that either if we are going
to go that far. it's ok for little timmy to see mommy pick up a pack of
smokes (while slowly giving them both lung cancer) but heaven forbid he knows
she has a glass of wine when they go out to eat.
RE: Kids and alcohol | 3:07 p.m. May 11, 2009
With all of those honors and degrees your grammer is still that bad.
the accompany/they accompany
hear/here
Maybe you had a little too much wine with lunch.
the accompany/they accompany
hear/here
Maybe you had a little too much wine with lunch.
Florida Brad | 3:09 p.m. May 11, 2009
OH GROW UP ! First it was Mini Bottles in private clubs wich have much more
alcohol than a standard bar pour. Then " Zion Curtains". Utah is
getting further and further out there in right field.
Look, if you do not want an alcoholic beverage, don't have one. Teach your children the proper way to have a drink (or not). I was lucky, I had a mixed LDS/Non-LDS Family that drank and didn't and I was taught the proper way to drink (or not).
You folks keep giving such good reasons to never come home to Utah for a vist and to spend money.
Look, if you do not want an alcoholic beverage, don't have one. Teach your children the proper way to have a drink (or not). I was lucky, I had a mixed LDS/Non-LDS Family that drank and didn't and I was taught the proper way to drink (or not).
You folks keep giving such good reasons to never come home to Utah for a vist and to spend money.
re:Jon Holbrook | 3:12 p.m. May 11, 2009
If the Church can't handle the phrase Zion curtain being used in a
newspaper, I say it has bigger problems than the Deseret News.
Guys, we've got to get over this persecution complex.
Guys, we've got to get over this persecution complex.
Monday Entertainment | 3:51 p.m. May 11, 2009
This is a great Monday piece. Gives me something entertaining to read. I was
up at Red Rock in PC on Saturday night and they had a cardboard
"curtain" at the bar...pretty ridiculous. I am LDS, I have read about
it, and I still don't understand this law and I don't see the big deal
with being able to servce alcohol in a restaurant. Kids drink alcohol at
parties and in their homes, not bars and fine dining establishments like
Faustina, Market Street, etc. Give me a break. This whole thing is a complete
waste of time and money. There are more important things to worry about right
now.
It is easy to understand the frustation of non-LDS people in Utah but they also need to understand that Utah is a very peculiar place. These laws and restrictions have been around for a long time. At least some changes are being made.
It is easy to understand the frustation of non-LDS people in Utah but they also need to understand that Utah is a very peculiar place. These laws and restrictions have been around for a long time. At least some changes are being made.
Interesting (again) | 3:53 p.m. May 11, 2009
And let's be honest. Alcohol is the least of our worries. Drugs are the
problem with our young generation. And I know, I will get a bunch of responses
that say "alcohol is a drug" and I realize that.
But alcolhol is not the "gateway" drug it used to be. Now kids are moving on to harder substances. Why don't we focus on those things?
But alcolhol is not the "gateway" drug it used to be. Now kids are moving on to harder substances. Why don't we focus on those things?
I started out on Burgundy.. | 4:26 p.m. May 11, 2009
but soon hit the harder stuff.
With excuses to Bob Dylan.
With excuses to Bob Dylan.
to:Ludicrous@9:04 | 4:31 p.m. May 11, 2009
I love you! Seriously, I am so glad to see a Latter-day Saint respond with such
a level head. I must believe there are a lot more like you. You represent the
attitude that will be the future of the Mormon Church. Take Care. ( Remember.
Drinks on you!)
re kids & alcohol | 5:02 p.m. May 11, 2009
I love people who flaunt their vast wisdom & many degrees, then destroy the
English language.
Tends to take away from your credibility with the rest of your statement. And only confirms the verse: for when they are learned, they think they are wise.
It still comes down to the fact that in Utah, as in Rhode Island and many other states, the strong local religion has a large impact on the way laws are written and enforced. Utahns have EVERY RIGHT to promote the lifestyles that makes it a great place, whether you agree or not.
I didn't see any of you Utah/Mormon bashers taking shots at the Catholic church regarding the "no same sex marriage" stand in RI.
Tends to take away from your credibility with the rest of your statement. And only confirms the verse: for when they are learned, they think they are wise.
It still comes down to the fact that in Utah, as in Rhode Island and many other states, the strong local religion has a large impact on the way laws are written and enforced. Utahns have EVERY RIGHT to promote the lifestyles that makes it a great place, whether you agree or not.
I didn't see any of you Utah/Mormon bashers taking shots at the Catholic church regarding the "no same sex marriage" stand in RI.
re Kids & alcohol | 5:25 p.m. May 11, 2009
Utahns do not have every right to promote their lifestyles. They have a duty to
understand and tolerate those who differ from them. Like it or not, Salt Lake
City is 50 percent LDS, and 50% non-LDS. The demographic trend is that Salt
Lake City soon will be predominantly non-LDS. Tolerance -- not tyranny -- is
the key to understanding.
WHY?? | 5:56 p.m. May 11, 2009
Do Mormons pretend that utah isn' this majority LDS populated state? Why do
want this other image of being normal. Newsflash when is it a bad thing to have
higher standards? That's why everyone thinks your weird, it's because
your not comfortable in your own skin and you try to be something your not. Get
a clue!
michaelm | 8:41 p.m. May 11, 2009
I currently live in WI, no hard liquor is sold here in my county on Sunday and
most liquor is sold in separate sections of the stores with its own checkouts or
in liquor only stores. Bars are frequent but no kids are allowed and I agree. A
few restaurants around us do make you walk through the bar to get to the tables.
When I lived in GA all hard liquor was in Package stores only and all bars and
package stores were closed on Sundays. I'm pretty much as live and let live
guy but there is no denying the fact that drunk driving, car accidents, and
domestic violence all drop in both areas on Sundays. I'm not saying all
people who drink have problems as some here seem to imply. I am saying the
propensity for those who abuse alcohol are put in check a little by some of
these blue county laws and I appreciate having everything slow down on
Sunday's.
From the Beer Capital | 11:42 p.m. May 11, 2009
I also currently live in WI (but apparently in a very different county than
Michael M). We don't have blue laws. Many residential neighborhoods have
bars. People buy alcohol whenever they want to, where ever they want to.
People take their kids to bars and give them drinks. Others provide their teens
with beer for keggers. Most crimes in the police blotter are tied to drinking.
Many students at the college where I teach binge drink. Some have even died
because of it. I've even had students show up for 8:30 a.m. classes
completely smashed. I've completely lost track of the number of drunk
driving deaths that I've seen in my small local newspaper in the past year.
I'm not a fan of Utah's outdated and bizarre alcohol regulations, but I really wish that my state and county would reduce drunk driving and increase awareness of the dangers of alcohol instead of just pretending that it will go away. There has to be a healthy balance between the two extremes.
I'm not a fan of Utah's outdated and bizarre alcohol regulations, but I really wish that my state and county would reduce drunk driving and increase awareness of the dangers of alcohol instead of just pretending that it will go away. There has to be a healthy balance between the two extremes.
Bourbon Capital | 3:10 p.m. July 20, 2009
Louisville, Kentucky.....bars have the option to serve 22 hours a day, 7 days a
week, I think they should make it 24 hours a day. Most of the south is
conservative with prohibition very prevalent, but every state in the south has
that one city where anything goes. I can see how your crazy alcohol regulations
might exist throughtout Utah, but in Salt Lake City too, that is just no good.
Oh wait SLC is the capital, oh well. I guess I will visit one day and laugh.
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Ryan Taylor preps the bar at Faustina in Salt Lake City. The glass "Zion curtain" can come down on Tuesday.
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- Drinking and drugs are good things,
- Religion and decency are bad things,
- The loudest and lewdest are praised, and
- The rest of us (normal people) are mocked.
If Utah is going the way of the world one step at a time, I can think of just one benefit to me. As a native Utahn living on the Least Coast, at least I don't feel as homesick as I used to do.