Deseret News | Changing religions not uncommon, survey says

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Changing religions not uncommon, survey says

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Leonardo | 2:29 p.m. April 28, 2009

I was LDS. For years in the Church I observed that True Blue LDS Church members protect their fragile beliefs by explaining away apostates who leave the Church: because they never really had a testimony of the Church. This is meant as a criticism. LDS believe that each person is responsible for their testimony and if you dont gain one, or if you lose one, it is your own fault not just a fault, but a sin! You failed in some way. You sinned and lost the companionship of Holy Ghost, or you disobeyed the leaders, or you read anti-Mormon literature no matter how, you failed to earn or retain a testimony.

What they ignore is the fact that good, honest people can read the BOM, attend Church meetings, pray with real intent, and still not receive a testimony through no fault of their own! People who are born into the Church can do everything they are expected to do and yet never have a spiritual experience that they would call a testimony. That does not make them bad people. But True Blue LDS members will treat them as if they are bad people! That is a shame.

read and heed | 2:37 p.m. April 28, 2009

this is not surprising: Eric Hofer in his book THE TRUE BELIEVER posited this position decades and decades ago.

Some people need to believe: to believe anything!!! The best communist was a best nazi, and so forth.

Mormon to Catholic, Catholic to Mormon. And that's the way it is.

Read Eric Hofer, please.

Leonardo | 2:45 p.m. April 28, 2009

I also noticed the core of the LDS claim is that there was a Great Apostasy. If not, no need for a Restoration!

"The Great Apostasy" preached by LDS says that ALL other religions "fell away". They lost the truth (doctrine), or they lost the "authority", or they sinned (selling indulgences), or they changed the ordinances. This is a bold criticism of ALL other religions!

But when the LDS are criticized, members and apologists defend it with a version of the argument: "yet I stand firm that people don't make the LDS Church any less true. We are all striving to be the best we can."

Funny how that argument is supposed to preserve the "truth" of the LDS Church, but it is rejected by those same apologists when it is applied to the Catholic (or ALL other religions)!

Imagine Joseph Smith's First Vision like this:

"I was answered that I should join the Catholic Church because the people and leaders may be fallible and sinful, but the Church is still true!

The LDS claim of a Great Apostasy is a hypocritical straw man argument. The LDS Church is not what it claims to be.

Comments continue below

The Trinity in the O.T. | 3:00 p.m. April 28, 2009

Gen 1:26...,Let us make man in"our image"...
verse 1:27 ..God created man in his"own image,"

If there more than one God,this would have to read,God made man in"their image", Jews are monotheistic(one God),Three persons one God,"The Holy Trinity." This is Roman Catholic and Protestant doctrine.

RE: James2 | 3:16 p.m. April 28, 2009

Actually what the LDS Church teaches is that all three make-up the God Head but that each is separate. God, the Father; the Son, Jesus Christ each have a body of flesh and bones. The Holy Ghost is a spirit that can reside within you. This is what the LDS Church teaches. The First Vision of Joseph Smith teaches us the true nature of the God Head. I'm not sure if you are trying to say the trinity or not but those who teach the trinity is teaching, God, the Son and the Holy Ghost are the same person, not separate individuals.

Lilith | 3:27 p.m. April 28, 2009

My siblings & I were raised in church. My parents are devout Christians. Still, they managed to raise 3 atheists. I never bought into religion. I felt more stifled by it than "set free" - especially as a woman. But live and let live as long as it isn't legislated. Most people I know have left organized religion for a more personal / spiritual approach. Whatever works for them. Reality is what works for me. I've found that my hard work pays off more than anything else.

Knowwhat | 3:50 p.m. April 28, 2009

Fact: The fastest growing church in Utah is the Catholic church, because of the influx of the latino population into the state.

DMH | 3:51 p.m. April 28, 2009

Kenny, your comment is spot on. Thank you for reminding us that going to Church is not because of the people, but because of what is taught there. I go to Church, because I am working out my own personal salvation with God. I go to learn more about the Atonement of Jesus Christ and how to apply it in my own life. I have friends at Church and it is good to see them each week, but I go to Church, because I have a testimony of my own and I want to continue to nourish it.

interesting | 4:07 p.m. April 28, 2009

I was raised LDS but fell away during my teenage years. I always felt as though I was very young and heavily influenced by my family. As I have grown older I have learned that being religious and being spiritual are way different. I am now much more involved with my spiritual journey and not so much on the whole organized religion. I have never been happier and at more peace!

NDN ON A CROSS | 4:22 p.m. April 28, 2009

what do you want..you got my land!

Looking beyond now | 4:27 p.m. April 28, 2009

I appreciated reading through these comments, as there was very little criticism towards each other's differing opinions and beliefs. I am LDS and a strong believer that the doctrines of the Gospel are true as taught in the LDS Church, but I respect the rights of others to believe what they do. I couldn't help but notice, though, that there was a lack of mention about what people expect beyond this life. LDS doctrine is about living a good life here, but we also believe that this life is the time for us to prepare for eternity. We know that it is only through the grace of Jesus Christ that we can be saved, but we also accept that His commandments are not just suggestions, and that we must obey them to be with Him after this life. He truly does love us all, but He has set certain standards and commandments for us to live by if we want the fulness of the blessings He has made available. And most of those blessings lie in the future. How do the rest of you perceive life after this?

how convenient | 4:28 p.m. April 28, 2009

More people believing in a faith without a "church". Another words they believe in God but they want to worship at their convenience and obey their own commandments. I would propose these people don't know God as well as they think they do. If that works for them that's fine. After all is said and done we'll all end up according to the laws and commandments we were willing to live by in this life time.

Mr Bean | 4:37 p.m. April 28, 2009

RELIGION IS...BLAH, BLAH, BLAH and more BLAH!!!

Bill | 4:42 p.m. April 28, 2009

I have talked to too many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS that do not believe it wrong to smoke, use alcohol etc. etc., but they still pay tithes & offerings. My opinion is that if I am not going to live the True Gospel as I know it, then I sure as heck am not going to waste my $$ paying these things, 'cause I KNOW that tithing being paid, but then breaking the word of wisdom will NOT get you to the Celestial Kingdom!! And that is a FACT! You CAN NOT buy your way to Heaven. If you really believe you can, then you may as well be a Catholic & save your $$.

Anonymous | 5:04 p.m. April 28, 2009

I didn't leave my former church because of bad history or imperfect people. I left because I came to believe something else was true. The bad actions of individuals past and present don't influence what I believe.

RE; Trnity in the O.T. | 5:15 p.m. April 28, 2009

This was prior to Jesus becoming incarnate,He was spirit,Just as The Holy Spirit and we know God is Spirit,(John 4:24)
Bom teaches (2Nephi: 31:21)..Behold,this is the doctrine of Christ,and the only and true doctrine of the Father,and of the son,and of the Holy Gnost,which is one God,without end Amen."

"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage,Jesus Christ a seperate distinct personage from God the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods." Joseph Smith

Ardis @ 4:27 | 6:12 p.m. April 28, 2009

I also used to like church, and I tried several in my life, but beyond some good friends and the feeling of the week being complete by attending I prayed and read many books and articles to come to this conclusion.
I believe that our soul is real and I also believe it is cosmic energy. Quantum physics in other words. I call by belief Cosmic Consciousness. I have met many others who also go in this direction.
I pray, I believe Jesus Christ was a wonderful human and teacher. The same for Buda and many, many others I dont have the space to list.
I do not believe in any organized religion. All organized religion on earth today and in the passed all have one thing in common. They are based on theory. They are based on the premise of someone, or organizer if you will, writing what they believe to be Gods

Ardis @4:27 cont. | 6:13 p.m. April 28, 2009

words and thoughts. These people who have written multitudes of books and scripture, all are telling us how to live according to their thoughts. Some of these books are hundreds and thousands of years old. I personally think that I do not need anybody else, (a third person) to enable me to communicate with my idea of God. Especially from dated material written by a human being.
I dont fear death at all. I am a good person. I try hard to live and treat people as I would like them to treat me. I love my family and friends. Im not perfect, but I am decent as anyone on earth.
Nobody knows what happens after we die. Its still a mystery. Perhaps our energy will begin a new journey. I hope so.

Valery | 6:34 p.m. April 28, 2009

I have great faith in God. However the ignorance of some church members keeps me from wanting to go to church, because some people distract from my spirituality.

Farley | 7:22 p.m. April 28, 2009

Many people have left the mormon church to become Christian. With that accomplishment being stated the mormon church has also drove many from organized religion period.

Anonymous | 7:25 p.m. April 28, 2009

Um, I have join ten different churches or religions, including LDS, and I have come to the conclusion that they all stink!

I now only believe in life, me and God, and what a great universe of total mystery. I also understand that people have the capability to dream and make up stuff to whatever makes them feel good. Peace!

nph | 10:30 p.m. April 28, 2009

This is to "my musings". Your feelings of feeling uncomfortable at church and perhaps unwanted there are something many others including my self have felt. It is hard for many of us to get known by a new ward for many reasons but until that happens they won't know how wonderful you are. You can try sitting by someone else that looks uncomfortable and smiling at them or trying to share the hymn book with them. You can stick you hand up in class and offer an opinion. Anyhow I am glad you have a testimony. PLease don't give up. I am a convert and now am an old lady and I lived through that discomfort you mention and now what ever ward I am in they are my family.

If this is akin to Global | 10:45 p.m. April 28, 2009

Climate change, effort is needed to keep people from changing their religions.

I'm happy | 11:10 p.m. April 28, 2009

and I know it. :o)

Full faith and credit, hard core, born and raised LDS. Lived it with all my heart and soul. Sought as close a relationship as possible with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and to align my life with their will for me.

With full sincerity finally decided to stop accepting confusing answers and non-answers to questions arising from studying and pondering the scriptures. Peace walked in. My heart and mind opened and I walked out of the church.

There is no more confusion. No more wondering.

I am happy and at peace for the first time since I was old enough to care about such things. Life is a gift and a pleasure. I continue to be grateful each day for all of my life that has been and where it has brought me.

When we die, the discussion will be over.

Namaste. :o)

@ Lilith | 11:15 p.m. April 28, 2009

Self-responsibility. The route to achieving and receiving more of what I'd like in this life than countless hours in worship services or on my knees in fervent prayer.

Well said.

zulu | 12:23 a.m. April 29, 2009

From Mormon to Catholic...it it Christ's Church, and I came to realize that over time.

It is hard work | 8:17 a.m. April 29, 2009

After all the years in the lds church I have noted most leave because it requires you to sacrafice and give service to others....we have become to soft to truly be committed to loving the Savior to give it our all...if that means moving on to easier pastures, so be it. It's time to commit to something greater than ourselfs. May the Church of Jesus Chrust of Latter day Saints always require us to streach ourselfs in service and loving each other.

Pedestal service | 9:09 a.m. April 29, 2009

To: It is hard work???????

Do you think to go and gossip and act like an almighty every Sunday is service??? Please tell me what kind of service is that? Otherwise, i see NO service going on in my ward. Not unless someone personally is benefiting from doing something nice for someone else, and then all i hear from them are the pompous boasts and bragging about what they did that was so wonderful for many weeks to come...give me a break! Not my kind of religion.

Linda A. | 9:53 a.m. April 29, 2009

As a mormon women I find it appauling at all the people who choose to leave the church. You will be in for a rude awakening when you die and are judged by god. You will sit at the mercy of his feet and beg him to forgive you for leaving the only true church. Hopefully he will forgive you, but as for me, I know that I will stay in the only true church and continue fighting for Gods laws. I will keep preaching the truth to all the non belivers. I will keep doing my duty to keep the sanctity of marriage between one man and one women, even if the gays call me a biggot! Yes, you can stray if you want, but may God have mercy on your soulS!

to Bil | 10:22 a.m. April 29, 2009

I hate to tell you but Catholics are called to tithe as well. We just don't very well. Also my parish asks for 5% and 1% for the diocese and then 4% for others. You are encouraged to give at least 10%. There is no limit.

We also are encouraged to do service. It's not as organized for the average member as how the LDS mission process is set up. It's more like a week or two doing humanitarian effort somewhere in the US or abroad during your teens. Service hours in family or community before receiving sacraments or during high school. Adults and older teens helping at schools and hospitals in Haiti or whatever partnership your parish takes on. Very few spend years at it but for those who entered religious orders they spend their entire lives. The orders are who started a number of schools, elementary on up to college and hospitals. Started to help immigrant communities but other benefit as well.

It's a double edge sword. I know someone who sent the kids to a christian school that wasn't catholic, joined so she could get free tuition. Buying members. Shameful.

K | 10:24 a.m. April 29, 2009

Money should never be why someone joins or leaves a church. All ask members of some sort of monetary contribution when there is an income. True some churches are more on top of collecting than others, but they all ask.

Fallibility and Truth | 10:37 a.m. April 29, 2009

I get a kick out of the people who blast the members of the LDS Church and state that because of the human fallibilities of its leaders and members the Church is not true.
Seems to me I recollect Moses being disobedient, Peter denying Jesus, Peters lack of faith to walk on the water with Jesus, Judas Iscariots betrayal of Jesus, Jonahs disobedience in going to Nineveh, the murmurings of the Children of Israel, Thomas doubting that the Resurrected Christ stood before him, and members and elect people making mistakes according to Biblical accounts. Human fallibilities will always be with us, but it does not make the Gospel any less true.
As to the people who say I am Spiritual..not Religious and do not need a Church I recommend the following scriptures: Ephesians 5: 23-25. Christ loved and gave himself to the Church.

Leonardo | 11:55 a.m. April 29, 2009

To Fallibility,

Good argument. Why didn't it work for Joseph Smith and all his followers when he criticized the Catholic Church? If the Church can still be "true" even though the prophet/pope sins (like Moses or Peter), why does the LDS Church say the Catholic Church is not true?

You LDS are the biggest hypocrites around!

Anonymous | 12:05 p.m. April 29, 2009

To Falibility and Truth,

When Ephesians 5:23-25 says Christ gave himself to the Church, the word translated as "Church" does not refer to an organization, but instead to the charismatic, free-flowing group of people who followed and believed in him. That is why the Greek idiom is used to refer to those followers as "the body of Christ." Your interpretations of scripture are false and wrong.

So many judges | 12:10 p.m. April 29, 2009

I'm so happy that their are so many of you LDS who take it upon yourselves to judge everyone else. I hope you folks are an example to all human beings meaning you are so perfect. Religion should not be about passing judgement on others.

Get over yourselves | 12:49 p.m. April 29, 2009

WE should ONLY praise God and Jesus and NO MAN!

RE: So many judges | 1:10 p.m. April 29, 2009

Actually we honestly don't try to judge anyone. Everyone who walks the earth sins. We know that as well as anyone. As an LDS member to many around the world we are friendly, less judgemental than most, but also peculiar in our beliefs. Is tht really wrong?

Yes, we are on the opposite side of the same-sex issue but no one seems to listen as to why. We are just bigots because we stand for something other than the things of man. We hold to the fact that we believe the LDS Church to be the Lord's Church as it was established when he was here. We haven't changed that doctrine sine it was first stated by Joseph Smith. We believe the Bible to be the word of GOD as long as it is translated correctly. We also believe the BOOK OF MORMON also to be the word of God. Together these two wonderful books holds the fulness of the everlasting Gospel within its covers. These are some of our core beliefs. It doesn't mean the Catholic Church is totally false or any other sect. They all have certain truths.

Jerry W | 1:25 p.m. April 29, 2009

Just before Jesus was crusified, He said I would that this cup pass from me, but nevertheless thy will and not my own be done. Just before he died on the cross he asked in agony why has thou forsaken me.Who do you suppose he was addressing?

To Linda A. | 9:53 a.m. | 1:33 p.m. April 29, 2009

Be careful. You sound a little boastful and proud of the things you are doing in this life and judgmental of those people who are not doing the same. BE CAREFUL.

To Linda A. | 9:53 a.m. | 2:24 p.m. April 29, 2009

Calm down your making all religous people look fanatical

Anonymous | 2:41 p.m. April 29, 2009

Mormon to Jew and I couldn't be happier.

Leonardo & Ana | 2:59 p.m. April 29, 2009

Actually, using the Greek Septuagint lexicon, Church(ekklhsia) means a gathering of people in a common place with a common purpose or the gathering of the Israelites. Now..Churches provide a common gathering place for a common purpose...true to the Septuagint Greek!

And if you cross reference Ephesians 5 with Matt 16:18 Christ stated how he would build HIS Church. Additionally using Ephesians 2: 20 the Church's organization is built upon a foundation of APOSTLES and PROPHETS with CHRIST as the Cornerstone. To which I must ask...Where are YOUR prophets and Apostles? Be spiritual All You want..but don't try to base your belief in biblical scriptures.

Dr. Pangloss | 4:16 p.m. April 29, 2009

The Flying Spaghetti Montster is the one true God. I saw Him/Her at the Olive Garden and became a devout believer. All those that deny the FSM will be doomed to an Atkins afterlife! The great and noodly appendage must be worshipped.
Ramen!

Rational Thinker | 4:26 p.m. April 29, 2009

God is just Santa Claus for adults.

Genesis | 4:30 p.m. April 29, 2009

I left organized religion. I was born/raised in the LDS church and went on a mission. I left the LDS faith for non-denominational Christianity. I went there for about a year. But still nothing stacks up for me. There wasn't much differece between a nondenominational service and an LDS one. Both groups seek your money. Both groups seek power, and worst of all they don't actually DO what they say. They don't practice what they preach. I gave the Bible a second chance. I Started reading in Genesis and realized nothing adds up. So, Adam and Eve were the first
right? And they had Cain and Abel. When Cain was banished, he went to the City of Nod and found a wife there. So where did Nod "all of the sudden" come from? Sounds like to me that Adam and Eve were not the first people on Earth if there was another city with lots of people. Why isn't Nod's lineage and ancestry included in the Bible? And why aren't Dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible. Maybe that's why Joseph Smith came up with the Curelom and Cummom in the BOM.

To Linda | 4:38 p.m. April 29, 2009

People need to celabrate their independence. I left the Mormon religion many years ago and couldn't be happier. My wife has now left the Mormon church on her own and she is seeing life from a completly different perspective. She thanks me all the time for sticking by her and letting her figure out things on her own. If people want to continue to practice their religion, than that is great. However, when my wife shares with her LDS friends how happy she is now they say things like "I can't believe your husband pulled you away" or " We know this is the one true church and we will pray for you." I don't get it. How about saying "I am so happy for you that you have found happieness." So linda, when you tell people to be careful, please don't think that you are speaking for God. I know that your religion teaches fear, but the good news is that when I left the Mormon faith I lost all of my fears.

I smell a fish | 4:40 p.m. April 29, 2009

It seems quite funny to me that only a few of Gods children out of trillions and trillions of his children claim that they have seen him. Something is mighty fishy here!?! Even immoral men claim they have seen him, so what about the trillions who are very moral, who wish to see him, but yet haven't? Something mighty fishy goen on here! Maybe I should make false claims as others that i have seen God, so that i can get people to join my church and do what i want them to do.... Mighty fishy huh?

Anonymous | 4:58 p.m. April 29, 2009

To 2:59

You do not know Greek. I do. Meaning is in the idiom. You have no clue what you are talking about.

IQ 190 | 5:15 p.m. April 29, 2009

Debating the Trinity is like debating how may angels can fit on the head of a pin. It's pointless and all a bunch of fairy tales. Human beings need to turn their backs on superstition and join the 21st century.

Roberto | 7:30 p.m. April 29, 2009

To Musings@ 6:39 Do you mean like all the stupid rules contained in Deuteronomy 5... I think those are the 10 commandments. Or the words of advice we read in Matthew 5.... That is the sermon on the Mount. I believe these rules are made and given to make us better, even the other and rules I look to to become a better person. Without rules and laws and yes some inforcement then our society goes down the tubes real fast. Just ask Lott and his family!

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