Reader comments
Gay-marriage momentum building, activists say
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arc | 6:56 p.m. April 23, 2009
Re-run HB 160. Forget the others for a while.
YF26 | 7:26 p.m. April 23, 2009
Let's not get too worried yet . . . as soon as Iowa and Vermont put this
issue on a ballot the people will vote it down . . . like in every other state.
Sorry but it has been proven that America does not want same-sex marriage. Even
California voted it down! The "Activists" always speak above reality
and will always make it sound bigger than it is.
Unfortunately | 7:51 p.m. April 23, 2009
With role models as amazing as Britney Spears & Miley Cyrus, the young
generation is being duped into believing that people should be allowed to do
whatever makes them happy. It would make some happy not to work, not to go to
school, to drive as fast as one wanted, to use illegal drugs, and to take
whatever one wants whenever one wants it. I'm not hurting anyone, why
shouldn't I be allowed to do it? Marriage is a legal contract between a
man and a woman and I believe that is best. I plan to vote against anything
that endorses or encourages homosexual acts.
Comments continue below
Bryan | 7:55 p.m. April 23, 2009
YF26: Iowa and Vermont do not have a referendum process for constitutional
amendments like California does. There will be no "Prop 8" for those
states unless 2/3 of their legislature support it, which is not likely.
How does Utah work? Is there a referendum process there?
How does Utah work? Is there a referendum process there?
Robert | 8:00 p.m. April 23, 2009
I don't know if same-sex marriage is "gaining momentum", as some
interviewed for the article suggest, but if so, it's nothing to be proud
of.
Pornography has gained momentum during the past 30 years, but that does not make it right.
Pornography has gained momentum during the past 30 years, but that does not make it right.
ox | 8:27 p.m. April 23, 2009
I think gays should be married and share the great benefits that we hetro folks
enjoy. Like shared responsibilty for extreme debts, ie medical bills. One gets
sick and both go bankrupt. Yea !!!!!
Michael | 9:24 p.m. April 23, 2009
I truly BELIEVE that God will work to change the hearts and minds of the people
in the great country we live in to see that it is just and fair to grant the
same rights and benefits to all of its citizens. Civil marriage is a civil
right.
@ox | 9:37 p.m. April 23, 2009
Wasn't that part of the package when you got married? For better, for
worse, in sickness and in health?
Why so bitter about the financial burden of medical bills? Medical care is extremely expensive, I agree, but where my spouse goes, I willingly go. More strength to us together. Did you lose a business over it? I am saddened for your experience.
Why so bitter about the financial burden of medical bills? Medical care is extremely expensive, I agree, but where my spouse goes, I willingly go. More strength to us together. Did you lose a business over it? I am saddened for your experience.
TheTruth | 9:38 p.m. April 23, 2009
You anti-gay folks are REEEEEAAAAALLLLLLY scary.
How can you not see that?People are people, and love is love.
Anyone creating division amongst God's creations surely has no understanding of God and his love.
How can you not see that?People are people, and love is love.
Anyone creating division amongst God's creations surely has no understanding of God and his love.
Anonymous | 9:42 p.m. April 23, 2009
Civil marriage between a man and a man or a woman and a woman is absolutely
ridiculous! Add the word RIGHTS to any issue and it is the golden thread that
gets sympathy from misguided individuals. Give them all the benefits but
don't rob society of the definition of marriage! How can people stand to
live the lie of pretending to be married under those circumstances?
Anonymous | 2:08 a.m. April 24, 2009
My straight brother, five years my senior, has been married SIX times. He
didn't speak to me for two years when he learned that I was gay. The cry
to protect the sanctity of marriage cracks me up with the divorce rate is at
50%. All we want is a shot at it. Let your churches give you the type of
marriage they want to. Let the government give us CIVIL marriage.
One Human Family | 7:14 a.m. April 24, 2009
Wouldn't it be nice if Utah and the LDS church was actally at the forefront
of civil rights for once? For those that are LDS, remember that the church
fought AGAINST equal rights for women and blacks. Does that mean the church,
Book of Mormon, etc are not true? No. It just means we are human just like
everyone else, including the leaders of the church. Why do we always need a
revelation to smack us across the head before we accept other people.
Seriously.
My brother is gay and deserves all the rights that I have. Period.
My brother is gay and deserves all the rights that I have. Period.
Bill | 7:37 a.m. April 24, 2009
The Church has never been against equal rights for blacks or women. That is a
misconception reported by many outside the Church and some members of the Church
actually believe it.
When Utah was a terroritory, women had the right to vote long before the constitution was changed to allow it. The Relief Society was formed for the benefit of women and is the largest and longest lasting women's organization in the world. Blacks and others were allowed to be baptized from the beginning, just not allowed to hold the priesthood. That changed with the revelation in 1978. It was ALWAYS understood that they would obtain that right someday.
Today the Church still fights against certain aspects of the ERA and will continue to do so. Just as the Church will continue to fight against immoral issues. Homosexuality when in practice is a sin, just as adultry and other sexual acts. It will and does get you excommunicated. The Lord will not endorse marriage as anything other than between man and woman, even though man may. It still doesn't make it right.
When Utah was a terroritory, women had the right to vote long before the constitution was changed to allow it. The Relief Society was formed for the benefit of women and is the largest and longest lasting women's organization in the world. Blacks and others were allowed to be baptized from the beginning, just not allowed to hold the priesthood. That changed with the revelation in 1978. It was ALWAYS understood that they would obtain that right someday.
Today the Church still fights against certain aspects of the ERA and will continue to do so. Just as the Church will continue to fight against immoral issues. Homosexuality when in practice is a sin, just as adultry and other sexual acts. It will and does get you excommunicated. The Lord will not endorse marriage as anything other than between man and woman, even though man may. It still doesn't make it right.
MA43 | 8:14 a.m. April 24, 2009
YF26, the facts are simply not on your side. It has not been proven that America
does not want same-sex marriage at all. 46% of Americans are for same-sex
marriages at this point. That's a 10% shift in the past five years. It
shouldn't be hard for anyone to do the math.
In a poll released on Monday, 53% of New York state residents said that they are for same-sex marriage.
Younger voters are for same-sex marriages by an overwhelming majority. What does that tell you about the future?
What side of history will you be on?
In a poll released on Monday, 53% of New York state residents said that they are for same-sex marriage.
Younger voters are for same-sex marriages by an overwhelming majority. What does that tell you about the future?
What side of history will you be on?
Daniel | 8:44 a.m. April 24, 2009
Bill, I'm glad to hear you speaking on behalf of the Lord, telling us what
He will or will not accept.
That's called "blasphemy", by the way. Mind your words.
That's called "blasphemy", by the way. Mind your words.
RE: Daniel | 8:51 a.m. April 24, 2009
Actually no because when stated it is by the words coming from the scriptures.
The Lord has already defined marriage between Man and Woman. That definitiion
has been reinterated by his prophets today with the PROCLAMATION ON THE FAMILY.
Sorry, no blashemy at all.
Anonymous | 8:53 a.m. April 24, 2009
it's so ironic, My God hates all the same people I do too...I wonder why???
Truth | 9:13 a.m. April 24, 2009
To the guy who thinks he knows so much about what happened in California with
Prop 8. It was simply a matter of money and campaigning that accompanied many
lies to endorse the yes on Prop 8 agenda. I know this because i have family that
lives there. None of us are gay, but we all believe as a family that nobody
should be left w/out equal rights. With that said, I cannot tell you how many
right wing nut jobs showed up on our doors telling lies about what would happen
if Prop 8 wasn't passes. The sad thing is people bought the lies and now
many MANY of those people are seeing they were lied to and wish they could take
that vote back. California is one of the most liberal states in the country and
i can PROMISE you that this won't go far. And i can promise you that
Californians won't buy the lies from the right wing agenda again. The truth
has been exposed about LDS involvement etc... Prop "hate" was a
farse....
Kevin | 9:20 a.m. April 24, 2009
"it's so ironic, My God hates all the same people I do too...I wonder
why???"
Being against Gay marriage is not the same as hating homosexuals. If I am against people using Cocaine, does that mean I hate everybody who does Cocaine? Of course not, to insinuate such things is disingenuous and manipulative.
Being against Gay marriage is not the same as hating homosexuals. If I am against people using Cocaine, does that mean I hate everybody who does Cocaine? Of course not, to insinuate such things is disingenuous and manipulative.
Lets Do Something | 9:20 a.m. April 24, 2009
Can any of these homophobic judgmental people please explain to me how gays and
lesbians are hurting you? How it would hurt you if they were allowed the same
basic human rights as you?
This is POLITICS yet all i hear are religious reasons behind why other Americans should not be receiving basic American rights. Separation between church and state is set in place for a reason. How would you Mormons like it if some big organization rallied together and "banned" you from having your temple ceremonies. They decided it was wrong, and really messing up the American way. Would that seem right? And would it be anyones business? No! So stay out of other peoples lives and business and they will stay out of yours! Oh...and I AM a Mormon and i am SO SO SO completely offended by the comments by "christians" come on!! I am a church going member with a calling. I find no threat in gay human beings. Because i firmly believe that all human beings deserve to be treated fairly. religious views are your own personal issues and we are free to have those as they should be free as well.
This is POLITICS yet all i hear are religious reasons behind why other Americans should not be receiving basic American rights. Separation between church and state is set in place for a reason. How would you Mormons like it if some big organization rallied together and "banned" you from having your temple ceremonies. They decided it was wrong, and really messing up the American way. Would that seem right? And would it be anyones business? No! So stay out of other peoples lives and business and they will stay out of yours! Oh...and I AM a Mormon and i am SO SO SO completely offended by the comments by "christians" come on!! I am a church going member with a calling. I find no threat in gay human beings. Because i firmly believe that all human beings deserve to be treated fairly. religious views are your own personal issues and we are free to have those as they should be free as well.
Scott | 9:23 a.m. April 24, 2009
@Bill's comment: "The Lord will not endorse marriage as anything other
than between man and woman, even though man may. It still doesn't make it
right."
You're not getting it. Your lord/church can and should define marriage in any way it sees fit regardless of the civil definition of marriage in any location in the world. Your lord/church does not and should not have the right to define marriage everyone else. Separate religious and civil marriage and learn to understand that our government should been in the business of ensuring equal rights in that civil sphere.
You're not getting it. Your lord/church can and should define marriage in any way it sees fit regardless of the civil definition of marriage in any location in the world. Your lord/church does not and should not have the right to define marriage everyone else. Separate religious and civil marriage and learn to understand that our government should been in the business of ensuring equal rights in that civil sphere.
Aonymous | 9:25 a.m. April 24, 2009
I have to say it is refreshing to know that one day soon we will not be having
this debate. It's time to move on, and dream up something else to
ridicule/fear. It is plain to see that God is making good on the promise to
love all of us as we love God. Loving each other seems to be the hardest task.
If you love God, you need to seriously ask yourself if you trust God's
authority and judgement. If you do, then you will not usurp that authority and
love your neighbor as you have been commanded to do. If you don't, then
you will continue to be unhappy the rest of your days, and that can be a whole
lot like Hell. Think about it.
Kevin | 9:25 a.m. April 24, 2009
I am thankful for the opportunity to be a part of something that celebrates the
union of man and woman. I entered into marriage believing that the union of the
different sexes was as much a part of marriage as the love and commitment. I
feel an aspect of that is now being taken away. Because I believe marriage
between a man and a woman is correct does not mean that I am full of hate. If
marriage is just love, commitment, and a piece of paper, then any responsible
adult should be able to get married, whether that is a brother and a brother, a
woman and 5 men, a man and any number of women, etc. etc. I am just hoping I
can keep what I thought was marriage, and that is a celebration of man and woman
coming together.
YF26 | 9:26 a.m. April 24, 2009
I apologize for everything i said.
I now realize i am a hateful bigot who is only bitter because i am not comfortable with my own sexuality. I realize now that my hate and discomfort towards gays and lesbians and merely my own insecurity.
I also realize that if we all went by votes by the "majority" then the minorities would always be treated unfairly. Sort of like when blacks felt they should be able to sit in the front of a bus, or go to the same schools. The majority would have "shot" down every vote for equality.
I hope the federal Gov steps in quickly to protect my gay and lesbians brothers and sisters because I love them just like I love all my brothers and sisters. If i ever had a gay child i would love them fully and completely.
"Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere"
I now realize i am a hateful bigot who is only bitter because i am not comfortable with my own sexuality. I realize now that my hate and discomfort towards gays and lesbians and merely my own insecurity.
I also realize that if we all went by votes by the "majority" then the minorities would always be treated unfairly. Sort of like when blacks felt they should be able to sit in the front of a bus, or go to the same schools. The majority would have "shot" down every vote for equality.
I hope the federal Gov steps in quickly to protect my gay and lesbians brothers and sisters because I love them just like I love all my brothers and sisters. If i ever had a gay child i would love them fully and completely.
"Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere"
The Future | 9:31 a.m. April 24, 2009
I believe that even though it is happening too slowly, progress happens and the
path of progress is leading us to equal rights for ALL people, everywhere.
Let's stop the hate and focus on compassion and understanding.
Responding... | 9:39 a.m. April 24, 2009
To Unfortunately: What does someone driving too fast? Taking drugs or not
working have to do with someone being gay? I am reading these comments and just
amazed at some of you. (shaking my head)! Gay and lesbians are not out for a
thrill ride or taking a drug. They are who they are. They love someone of the
same sex. The same way you love someone of the opposite sex. Its not some act
that they are choosing to do. I personally know 4 gay people who have committed
suicide because they were so persecuted. THREE Of them tried LDS shock treatment
to "change" them and it doesn't work! You can't change a
person from who they are! But you CAN make them so depressed they can't
take it anymore and they leave this life. Why would anyone "choose" to
be gay and be treated so unfairly. You people are so judgmental and should truly
be ashamed of yourselves. Maybe someday you will attend a funeral for similar
reasons and the only thing changing will be your hateful hearts.
A Different Daniel | 9:57 a.m. April 24, 2009
This fight will eventually end. With an increasing acceptance of homosexuality,
those against it will some day be in a minority, and everyone will be free to
marry whomever they want to marry. So why waste all the time in the meantime
fighting an unnecessary battle. The end result will not be in your favor. I
spent 10 years in the closet because of how people disrespected me and accused
me of being gay before I even had a chance to figure it out myself. I denied it
for so long I started believing I truly wasn't gay, and even married a
wife. I loved her, but I never truly realized how much I could love someone and
how happy I could be until we broke it off because I decided it was time to come
clean with myself. I wouldn't change a thing about my past or about me,
because now I'm finally accepting myself for who I truly am. And I never
knew happiness like I know it today.
Darcy | 10:02 a.m. April 24, 2009
I think it is funny how when we see someone we dont agree with we forget that we
are supposed to "LOVE ONE ANOTHER". The people who are homosexual are
not asking you to practice homosexuality. They are just asking for equal rights
as partners who love each other. I think that the fact that government rights
have gotten mixed in with church morals is a huge mistake. Morals are for your
own personal beliefs. Government Rights should be for Government to decided not
the bible. Everyone has different personal beliefs. They are no less valid. No
one can judge someone because no one has all the facts. We are not God and we
can not speak for him or her, because we don't know for sure. All we can do
is love each other and be as altruistic and fair as we can. We are forgetting
that is one thing all faiths can agree on. To often it doesn't happen. We
all end up fighting about what is right and who is wrong.
RE: Kevin | 9:25 a.m. April 24 | 10:09 a.m. April 24, 2009
The problem is - you are saying that due to your ideals you were married with,
you'd be willing to prevent anyone else from enjoying what you enjoy.
It's not about "Hate" or anything else... Someone else above
said it very well - Your faith and your church get to say what marriage is, and
have a heavenly ideal of what marriage is. However, the government does not get
to single out a group of CONSENTING ADULTS and say, "Based on gender - YOU
are not allowed to marry." Actually banning marriage between gays is
illegal - the government says they will not discriminate against anyone
regardless of race, creed, religion, or gender. GENDER. But they ARE
discriminating. Because of gender, they are discriminating on what gender can
marry what gender. People can still look down on my marriage, I look down on a
LOT of people's marriages. They just don't get to legislate against
it.
Annie | 10:13 a.m. April 24, 2009
I am saddened by how divisive this issue is, and the way it has been used to
wield oppressive power. I do believe it is time to be a bit more forceful in
unveiling the strategic rhetoric that those threatened by gay marriage continue
to use. Comparing gay lives to using cocaine and pornography, and referring to
gay lives as lifestyles only devalues lived experiences that are different from
your own. The words you are choosing mischaracterize PEOPLE and cause REAL
HARM!
It shouldn't take "knowing someone who is gay" to realize that "they are people too" and our humanity should ensure that we are all granted equal rights and protections by the state.
It shouldn't take "knowing someone who is gay" to realize that "they are people too" and our humanity should ensure that we are all granted equal rights and protections by the state.
BIll | 10:57 a.m. April 24, 2009
I will restate that this is not a civil rights issue but a moral issue. Those
who feel this is a civil rights issue are wrong in their discourse.
The Bible has basically spoken that Marriage is Defined as between man and woman. Nothing more, nothing less. That makes it solely a moral issue.
The Lord has spoken this in all cases and continues to speak it today. Whether you want to believe that or not is not my problem. There is no hate or bigotry in this whatsoever. However, there are those who are left of this that see it otherwise.
Those on the moral side will always be in the minority whether you want to accept that or not.
There will come a time where we on the moral side will continue to state what is right and we will continue to be slammed. Just because a certain majority says it is right doesn't make it right.
The Bible has basically spoken that Marriage is Defined as between man and woman. Nothing more, nothing less. That makes it solely a moral issue.
The Lord has spoken this in all cases and continues to speak it today. Whether you want to believe that or not is not my problem. There is no hate or bigotry in this whatsoever. However, there are those who are left of this that see it otherwise.
Those on the moral side will always be in the minority whether you want to accept that or not.
There will come a time where we on the moral side will continue to state what is right and we will continue to be slammed. Just because a certain majority says it is right doesn't make it right.
boarderthom | 11:29 a.m. April 24, 2009
Economic issues matter and marriage is an economic issue. Studies show that
married people are slightly healthier (less costs) and wealthier (pay more
taxes) than their single counterparts and this is true for gay people as well.
Therefore, it is in the state's best economic interest to grant marriage
equality. This is because there are thousands of rights and responsibilities
associated with the legal contract of marriage.
some people need to get a life | 11:39 a.m. April 24, 2009
Keep your God out of this. You can do whatever you liked behind your church
walls, but your religion based bigotry has no place in the public square.
Darcy | 11:45 a.m. April 24, 2009
Re: Bill
I am really happy that you have found a faith that works for you and bible that reflects morals and values that fit in with your life. Having said that, not everyone reads the bible, not everyone believes in it. Not everyone has your faith. It is not a moral issue because in America we are a melting pot. In America we have many faith with many different morals and because of that we need a Government that is going to reflect that not everyone is a white bible reading christian and that in fact many of us are the opposite. I know it is hard to take but those are the facts.
I am really happy that you have found a faith that works for you and bible that reflects morals and values that fit in with your life. Having said that, not everyone reads the bible, not everyone believes in it. Not everyone has your faith. It is not a moral issue because in America we are a melting pot. In America we have many faith with many different morals and because of that we need a Government that is going to reflect that not everyone is a white bible reading christian and that in fact many of us are the opposite. I know it is hard to take but those are the facts.
One Human Family | 11:53 a.m. April 24, 2009
I think "Responding..." said everything that needs to be said.
"I personally know 4 gay people who have committed suicide because they were so persecuted. THREE Of them tried LDS shock treatment to "change" them and it doesn't work!"
My gay brother and I have had long discussions about his suicide attempts. They were in direct response to his rejection in church and society for something he never chose and never wanted. I don't think people understand just how harmful anti-gay bigotry is.
People here seem to love to quote the scriptures and talk about morality, so please count how many scriptures talk about loving your neighbor and taking care of the poor and the needy and then tell us that it is ok to discriminate against gay people.
"I personally know 4 gay people who have committed suicide because they were so persecuted. THREE Of them tried LDS shock treatment to "change" them and it doesn't work!"
My gay brother and I have had long discussions about his suicide attempts. They were in direct response to his rejection in church and society for something he never chose and never wanted. I don't think people understand just how harmful anti-gay bigotry is.
People here seem to love to quote the scriptures and talk about morality, so please count how many scriptures talk about loving your neighbor and taking care of the poor and the needy and then tell us that it is ok to discriminate against gay people.
James | 11:59 a.m. April 24, 2009
BIll,
First of all, we do NOT legislate according to the Bible.
Second, even if we did, WHERE in the Bible does it "basically" say that Marriage is Defined as between man and woman? Cite chapter and verse, if you can.
Third, the fact that you arrogantly and ignorantly declare "Whether you want to believe that or not is not my problem. There is no hate or bigotry in this whatsoever." is exactly what makes you a bigot!
The Bigot is the person who is so dense and so blinded by their own worldview that they cannot even consider the possibility that there are other views than their own. That is the worst kind of bigotry and hatred because the bigot is not even aware of it!
You represent the most dangerous form of religion in the US today!
First of all, we do NOT legislate according to the Bible.
Second, even if we did, WHERE in the Bible does it "basically" say that Marriage is Defined as between man and woman? Cite chapter and verse, if you can.
Third, the fact that you arrogantly and ignorantly declare "Whether you want to believe that or not is not my problem. There is no hate or bigotry in this whatsoever." is exactly what makes you a bigot!
The Bigot is the person who is so dense and so blinded by their own worldview that they cannot even consider the possibility that there are other views than their own. That is the worst kind of bigotry and hatred because the bigot is not even aware of it!
You represent the most dangerous form of religion in the US today!
3 views on gay sex | 12:07 p.m. April 24, 2009
People see gay sex as either:
1) morally harmful to the individual and community and therefore must be discouraged as much as possible,
2) not good, but not inherently harmful, like a health affliction, OR
3) having the same moral value as heterosexual sex.
The category in which one places gay sex will determine where he/she stands on LGBT equality. I have the third view and so I see denying legal equality to gay and lesbian couples as morally reprehensible. Someone with the first view would see granting equality as morally reprehensible. The role of government is to find a way to let me and the Mormon fundamentalist receive the same legal protections and also protect our diverse perspectives of the world.
There probably should be broad religius exemptions to nondiscrimination laws, but by not passing any laws, government is taking the first perspective and excluding people from legal protection.
1) morally harmful to the individual and community and therefore must be discouraged as much as possible,
2) not good, but not inherently harmful, like a health affliction, OR
3) having the same moral value as heterosexual sex.
The category in which one places gay sex will determine where he/she stands on LGBT equality. I have the third view and so I see denying legal equality to gay and lesbian couples as morally reprehensible. Someone with the first view would see granting equality as morally reprehensible. The role of government is to find a way to let me and the Mormon fundamentalist receive the same legal protections and also protect our diverse perspectives of the world.
There probably should be broad religius exemptions to nondiscrimination laws, but by not passing any laws, government is taking the first perspective and excluding people from legal protection.
Anonymous | 12:34 p.m. April 24, 2009
3 views on Gay sex... I agree with everything you said, but you have to remember
that Gay Marriage isn't about the Sex... It's about Love, Family, and
Sharing.
The Gay's aren't trying to destroy marriage... They want to be included in this wonderful tradition.
The Gay's aren't trying to destroy marriage... They want to be included in this wonderful tradition.
Vince | 12:36 p.m. April 24, 2009
Unfortunately 7:51
You wrote,
"I plan to vote against anything that endorses or encourages homosexual acts"
Unfortunately, your very acts of keeping homosexuality under wraps encourages people to be closeted and promotes closet behavior.
Why do you think people are closeted? Because they have people trying to tell gays how to live their lives.
Your very efforts at promoting morality backfire, but you are so in denial.
You wrote,
"I plan to vote against anything that endorses or encourages homosexual acts"
Unfortunately, your very acts of keeping homosexuality under wraps encourages people to be closeted and promotes closet behavior.
Why do you think people are closeted? Because they have people trying to tell gays how to live their lives.
Your very efforts at promoting morality backfire, but you are so in denial.
Vince | 12:38 p.m. April 24, 2009
Robert | 8:00 p.m. April 23, 2009
You wrote,
"I don't know if same-sex marriage is "gaining momentum", as some interviewed for the article suggest, but if so, it's nothing to be proud of.
Pornography has gained momentum during the past 30 years, but that does not make it right."
Why are you making an analogy of same sex marriage to pornography?
What if someone made an analogy of heterosexual to pornography? The two are not related.
Same sex marriage is about two people making a commitment towards each other.
What does that have anything to do with pornography?
Vince | 12:46 p.m. April 24, 2009
RE: Daniel | 8:51 a.m. April 24, 2009
You wrote
"Actually no because when stated it is by the words coming from the scriptures. The Lord has already defined marriage between Man and Woman. That definitiion has been reinterated by his prophets today with the PROCLAMATION ON THE FAMILY. Sorry, no blashemy at all."
With all respect towards people's religious beliefs and their religious definition of marriage --- you people know that people are also married civilly.
Those marriages, the state grants the benefits and definition of marriage without using the word God.
This is what we're talking about.
How to define marriage civilly.
No one is trying to change any religion's definition of marriage.
As a matter of fact, different religions have different takes on religious marriage --- as in roles of marriage, divorce, etc. and the government does not intervene.
When we turn it around, why do we want to put in a religious definition of marriage into a civil contract?
Marriage is the way to go | 12:48 p.m. April 24, 2009
Traditional marriage, between one man and one woman, is the way to go.
Why? Because it is what leads to stable families and societies.
No one is anti-gay. To accuse someone of being anti-gay is insulting. This isn't about hating gay people--no one wants to get into a fistfight about this.
If anyone on either side of this issue (gay, straight, whatever) vandalizes, assaults, or commits a hate crime against another simply because they disagree with them, that is to be condemned by all on both sides of the issue and the perpetrator should be ashamed of themselves.
I think gay people ought to receive the same rights under the law as anyone else (i.e. health care, housing, employment).
But when it comes to gay marriage being legally recognized as an accepted form of matrimony in our country for tax benefits and adoption rights, forget it! The buck stops there!
It is not because we hate gays, are intolerant, or don't respect rights.
It is because marriage between one man and one woman is the universal and legal recognition of how stable families and societies are formed.
Traditional marriage is the way to go!
Why? Because it is what leads to stable families and societies.
No one is anti-gay. To accuse someone of being anti-gay is insulting. This isn't about hating gay people--no one wants to get into a fistfight about this.
If anyone on either side of this issue (gay, straight, whatever) vandalizes, assaults, or commits a hate crime against another simply because they disagree with them, that is to be condemned by all on both sides of the issue and the perpetrator should be ashamed of themselves.
I think gay people ought to receive the same rights under the law as anyone else (i.e. health care, housing, employment).
But when it comes to gay marriage being legally recognized as an accepted form of matrimony in our country for tax benefits and adoption rights, forget it! The buck stops there!
It is not because we hate gays, are intolerant, or don't respect rights.
It is because marriage between one man and one woman is the universal and legal recognition of how stable families and societies are formed.
Traditional marriage is the way to go!
Annie | 1:03 p.m. April 24, 2009
RE: "marriage is the way to go"
You said it yourself, marriage "leads to stable families and societies"
So shouldn't we be supporting stabilization for EVERYONE? Why should the buck stop at gay relationships, if it stabilizes community, provides good homes for children to grow up in and equalizes those "same rights" you were talking about? Health care, employment AND housing are all influenced and affected by marriage.
Your myopic view of what is "equal" and what is "right" is sad
You said it yourself, marriage "leads to stable families and societies"
So shouldn't we be supporting stabilization for EVERYONE? Why should the buck stop at gay relationships, if it stabilizes community, provides good homes for children to grow up in and equalizes those "same rights" you were talking about? Health care, employment AND housing are all influenced and affected by marriage.
Your myopic view of what is "equal" and what is "right" is sad
JOSH | 1:17 p.m. April 24, 2009
Sorry people but being pro traditional-marriage = anti-gay marriage =
discrimination = bigotry. Plain and simple!
You can't have it both ways!
You can't have it both ways!
Don | 1:25 p.m. April 24, 2009
America... where all men are created equal.
Period. No argument possible.
Love is love.
Period. No argument possible.
Love is love.
Anonymous | 1:33 p.m. April 24, 2009
I would just like to draw a parallel.
I grew up in the deep south. In that neck of the woods, we were not racists, we were just "pro-white". We did not persecute blacks or enslave them, we were just "pro-cotton-industry", and we took very good care of those poor, uneducated, inferior creatures who worked for us.
When my father served in WWII, he was on the German side of the lines. He was killed in battle by Allied forces. My mother brought her children to the US. Well, father used to say that he was not a bigot. He was not antisemitic, he was just "pro-Aryan Nation". He was just "pro-Nazi".
I am grateful to live in a country where the sins of the fathers are not answered on the heads of the children.
As for me, I am not anti-Mormon, I am just "pro-equality and liberty". I am not gay, nor am I "pro-gay", but I understand what it means to be willing to die to protect the rights of those who are not like me.
Sincerely,
1st Lt (O2) Richardson
I grew up in the deep south. In that neck of the woods, we were not racists, we were just "pro-white". We did not persecute blacks or enslave them, we were just "pro-cotton-industry", and we took very good care of those poor, uneducated, inferior creatures who worked for us.
When my father served in WWII, he was on the German side of the lines. He was killed in battle by Allied forces. My mother brought her children to the US. Well, father used to say that he was not a bigot. He was not antisemitic, he was just "pro-Aryan Nation". He was just "pro-Nazi".
I am grateful to live in a country where the sins of the fathers are not answered on the heads of the children.
As for me, I am not anti-Mormon, I am just "pro-equality and liberty". I am not gay, nor am I "pro-gay", but I understand what it means to be willing to die to protect the rights of those who are not like me.
Sincerely,
1st Lt (O2) Richardson
Brad | 1:38 p.m. April 24, 2009
Anyone quoting the bible on a FEDERAL or STATE issue should re examine
what's being asked of here. There is no threat to your religion if we
grant the same CIVIL rights of a CIVIL marriage to all. Separation of Church
and state has gone downhill since the institution of "In God We Trust"
on the US dollar bill and "Under God" was added to the pledge of
allegience in the 1950's. This is not a religious issue, I want the right
to pay taxes as a couple, the rights to see my partner in the hospital, the
rights to be seen by the GOVERNMENT as an equal. I don't care what your
church wants, this is a government issue.
Ness | 1:49 p.m. April 24, 2009
It amazes me that so many people try to defend traditional marriage when, for
the longest time, it was nothing more than an economic contract between two
families. Most of the time, the children (especially the women) didn't
even have a say in the matter. Then you flash forward to today where half of
all marriages end up in divorce, even more than that are most likely are
dysfunctional in one way or another, and when two people who honestly love each
other enough to get married, some people have the audacity to say no because
"it's immoral" and "ruins family values."
If you want immorality when it comes to family, look in the mirror. Does your holy book not also say "He who is without sin cast the first stone?" Because all I'm seeing are sinners throwing rocks. If you want to protect the family from immorality, then no one should get married. But, happily, we live in a country where your church doesn't tell citizens what to do. It doesn't hold the authority.
If you want immorality when it comes to family, look in the mirror. Does your holy book not also say "He who is without sin cast the first stone?" Because all I'm seeing are sinners throwing rocks. If you want to protect the family from immorality, then no one should get married. But, happily, we live in a country where your church doesn't tell citizens what to do. It doesn't hold the authority.
Thank You | 1:56 p.m. April 24, 2009
1st Lt (O2) Richardson. Your strength, courage, and reminding us what this
country is about. Your service to this country means so much to me and countless
others who will never be able to express that to you. Thank you for putting
this in perspective for all of us. We can never thank you and the troops enough
for everything you do!!!
Re: Annie | 2:13 p.m. April 24, 2009
Annie, the thing that people who support gay marriage never seem to understand
are things like these:
Traditional marriage leads to stable families and societies because gender plays an essential role in one's life here. It teaches boys and girls that they have a divine nature and destiny, how to respect themselves and to accept who they are as special and unique.
It teaches that the masculinity of boys and the feminity of girls are wonderful and sacred, and that they are designed as such for very wonderful and specific purposes in God's plan. When understood, these things help them to achieve lasting happiness.
It teaches boys how to treat girls, and girls how to support boys as primary providers in the home.
It teaches children to respect parental and societal authorities (teachers, religious and civil officers, etc.). It helps sons and daughters have a mother and a father to look to as examples as to how they should be as adults. Likewise, it keeps mothers and fathers on their toes knowing that their children are watching everything they do.
In short, traditional marriage is calculated for the eternal stability of men and women who choose it.
Traditional marriage leads to stable families and societies because gender plays an essential role in one's life here. It teaches boys and girls that they have a divine nature and destiny, how to respect themselves and to accept who they are as special and unique.
It teaches that the masculinity of boys and the feminity of girls are wonderful and sacred, and that they are designed as such for very wonderful and specific purposes in God's plan. When understood, these things help them to achieve lasting happiness.
It teaches boys how to treat girls, and girls how to support boys as primary providers in the home.
It teaches children to respect parental and societal authorities (teachers, religious and civil officers, etc.). It helps sons and daughters have a mother and a father to look to as examples as to how they should be as adults. Likewise, it keeps mothers and fathers on their toes knowing that their children are watching everything they do.
In short, traditional marriage is calculated for the eternal stability of men and women who choose it.
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