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Universities will be 'irrelevant' by 2020, Y. professor says
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RB | 2:41 p.m. April 22, 2009
Another point to made about education...
My 4th grader came home with a list of spelling words. Words like: Stop, go, light, turn... 4th grade?
I had those words in the first week of 1st grade, watched B&W TV, and the only computer I ever saw was a mono-tone blinking light on Star Trek.
If education is so much better and more advanced today, why are our kids being dumbed down?
We had reading groups A, B, and C.
I ace'd math but was a horrible reader. [the C group]
My friend Tom actually flunked 2nd grade, imagine that?
Today, educators seem to be too focused on how a kid feels about himself, an less about Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic.
[and yes, I do still happen to spell it by sounding out the "...might eat tobacco in church" jiggle]
Give me a kid with the education of 40 years ago, anyday.
My 4th grader came home with a list of spelling words. Words like: Stop, go, light, turn... 4th grade?
I had those words in the first week of 1st grade, watched B&W TV, and the only computer I ever saw was a mono-tone blinking light on Star Trek.
If education is so much better and more advanced today, why are our kids being dumbed down?
We had reading groups A, B, and C.
I ace'd math but was a horrible reader. [the C group]
My friend Tom actually flunked 2nd grade, imagine that?
Today, educators seem to be too focused on how a kid feels about himself, an less about Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic.
[and yes, I do still happen to spell it by sounding out the "...might eat tobacco in church" jiggle]
Give me a kid with the education of 40 years ago, anyday.
sovereign individual | 2:42 p.m. April 22, 2009
Schools/universities will go the way newspapers are going now...people are tired
of the leftist tenured hippies.
Oh, they'll cry and wail about being 'face to face' or the 'experience' of university, but it's just their fear of the inevitable change.
The information is slowly leaking out, you can't keep it behind unionized guilds any longer. Your days are limited...it will be glorious.
Oh, they'll cry and wail about being 'face to face' or the 'experience' of university, but it's just their fear of the inevitable change.
The information is slowly leaking out, you can't keep it behind unionized guilds any longer. Your days are limited...it will be glorious.
Comments continue below
Sam | 2:51 p.m. April 22, 2009
Pretty funny -reading this article I see an add at the top of the page,
"Moms Return to Online Schools - graduate degrees in two years."
Yeah, now that makes a serious argument against online education right there.
Anonymous | 3:39 p.m. April 22, 2009
Education Leads to Liberalism.
When you speak of professors with minds wide open, do you refer to esteemed professors like William Ayers, Ward Churchill, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, etc?
I could go on.
However, There are a good many (worldly, enlightened) professors who view the United States as the root to all evils. These individuals have quite a history of attacking the virtues of capitalism and even democracy, while remain silent about many of the inhumanities of the more baser of governments.
I would posit that because someone has traveled and visited a few third world countries does not put them necessarily on the path to enlightenment and qualified to fill young skulls full of mush with pedagoguery.
When you speak of professors with minds wide open, do you refer to esteemed professors like William Ayers, Ward Churchill, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, etc?
I could go on.
However, There are a good many (worldly, enlightened) professors who view the United States as the root to all evils. These individuals have quite a history of attacking the virtues of capitalism and even democracy, while remain silent about many of the inhumanities of the more baser of governments.
I would posit that because someone has traveled and visited a few third world countries does not put them necessarily on the path to enlightenment and qualified to fill young skulls full of mush with pedagoguery.
Gary | 3:52 p.m. April 22, 2009
It may be true that US institutions will be irrelevent as the US adopts an
online "McDonalds" approach to education. Just offer easy online
classes and your "school" can make tons of money.
Learning is all just about getting a "grade" right?
Learning is all just about getting a "grade" right?
True Learner | 3:58 p.m. April 22, 2009
It's hard to see universities disappearing completely, but I think they are
already fairly irrelevant in their teaching methods and content. Students are
already expecting change. In my experience at least, the education I received in
my computer science degree five years ago was definitely outdated and
irrelevant. A jumping point, maybe, but I learned much more on my own, outside
of my colleges classes, than I ever did in the classroom.
Some arguments have been made for the purposes of universities to be teaching students how to learn and solve problems, not necessarily feeding them knowledge. To me, it seems that learning skills should be taught and mastered long before a student reaches college age. And you don't need a classroom setting to teach this. Study and learning are individual matters. Although having 30 kids in the same room is good for socializing, it is not the only way, or even the best, way to share ideas with others.
And as a business owner of a software company, I don't care one drop if my employees have a degree. I do care if they can do their job! And the two aren't always synonymous.
Some arguments have been made for the purposes of universities to be teaching students how to learn and solve problems, not necessarily feeding them knowledge. To me, it seems that learning skills should be taught and mastered long before a student reaches college age. And you don't need a classroom setting to teach this. Study and learning are individual matters. Although having 30 kids in the same room is good for socializing, it is not the only way, or even the best, way to share ideas with others.
And as a business owner of a software company, I don't care one drop if my employees have a degree. I do care if they can do their job! And the two aren't always synonymous.
I hope Mr. Johnson | 4:08 p.m. April 22, 2009
I hope Mr. Johnson reads some of these comments (like the one above) to see part
of what he's wrought. There is a reason we have education - sadly, too few
take advantage of it.
To weberly | 11:50 | 4:13 p.m. April 22, 2009
Thanks for making my point (By 2020?) for me -- surgeons do not learn surgery in
university classes. Rather, in on-the-job training during their surgical
residency, their first job.
A medical residency is probably the best current model for the future of education -- aspiring teachers, lawyers, engineers, etc. would apply to a residency program that would evaluate their acadmic qualifications and accept them into a training program that acutally teaches them how to do their job. Residency qualifications could be obtained in a number of ways, including the virtual world.
And, by the way, I did 4 years in academe. I know whereof I speak.
College professors really do have a 6-hour productive workweek. Yeah, yeah, many spend 60-80 hours a week in their sumptuous (and they really are sumptuous, compared to those in industry) offices, but what is their job? PROFESSORS should PROFESS. Otherwise, they are managers, or researchers, social theorists, you know -- parasites.
Teaching is what we, the taxpayers, pay them so willingly and so well to do. We believe they're educating our kids.
Mostly, they're not.
Therein lies the problem.
A medical residency is probably the best current model for the future of education -- aspiring teachers, lawyers, engineers, etc. would apply to a residency program that would evaluate their acadmic qualifications and accept them into a training program that acutally teaches them how to do their job. Residency qualifications could be obtained in a number of ways, including the virtual world.
And, by the way, I did 4 years in academe. I know whereof I speak.
College professors really do have a 6-hour productive workweek. Yeah, yeah, many spend 60-80 hours a week in their sumptuous (and they really are sumptuous, compared to those in industry) offices, but what is their job? PROFESSORS should PROFESS. Otherwise, they are managers, or researchers, social theorists, you know -- parasites.
Teaching is what we, the taxpayers, pay them so willingly and so well to do. We believe they're educating our kids.
Mostly, they're not.
Therein lies the problem.
At the rate | 4:47 p.m. April 22, 2009
our global society is deteriorating, we may all be irrelevant in 2020. That is
if we make it that long. The world is at the most volatile spot in the
"pride cycle" right now. There is nowhere to go but downhill from here
on out. Oh, and have a good day.
i55590@yahoo.ca | 4:58 p.m. April 22, 2009
Hopefully we can adapt and universities as well. EDU is very sensitive to Web
2.0 right now with massive attention on e Learning. I think the traditional
approach to EDU will undergo a paradigm shift - but the higher academic streams
will still exist - on line universities will proliferate.
Take a look at Educause...they are pretty savvy on Gen Y and Z. However Kurzweil can always play the "singularity" card... :)
Take a look at Educause...they are pretty savvy on Gen Y and Z. However Kurzweil can always play the "singularity" card... :)
Look Ahead | 5:42 p.m. April 22, 2009
I know for a fact that MicroSoft looks down on acedamia.
Bill Gates and Paul Allen had it right when they left college.
The philosophy at MS is that Universities teach what was, and therefore is out-dated the minute from the get-go.
They don't want people who can simply regurgitate a lecture, but actually want indepentant thinkers who believe there is always a better way, and always think out-of-the-box.
The LESS main-stream -- the better.
Bill Gates and Paul Allen had it right when they left college.
The philosophy at MS is that Universities teach what was, and therefore is out-dated the minute from the get-go.
They don't want people who can simply regurgitate a lecture, but actually want indepentant thinkers who believe there is always a better way, and always think out-of-the-box.
The LESS main-stream -- the better.
Response | 5:58 p.m. April 22, 2009
To Look Ahead,
Gates, Allen, Jobs, the founders of WordPerfect, and the rest GOT their ideas from Universities! That is where the research and development is happening! That IS the future!
It is obvious from your comment that you have never attended a university. There is much more going on than regurgitating lectures. There is cutting edge research that is beyond your ability to comprehend.
Universities are the future. Anyone who tells you otherwise is just spewing sour grapes because they couldn't cut it in a challenging educational environment.
Gates, Allen, Jobs, the founders of WordPerfect, and the rest GOT their ideas from Universities! That is where the research and development is happening! That IS the future!
It is obvious from your comment that you have never attended a university. There is much more going on than regurgitating lectures. There is cutting edge research that is beyond your ability to comprehend.
Universities are the future. Anyone who tells you otherwise is just spewing sour grapes because they couldn't cut it in a challenging educational environment.
Condor | 6:14 p.m. April 22, 2009
The teacher or author of the material makes all the difference. I did some class
where the lecturer just read out the notes and scribbled on the blackboard. No
questions were allowed and so there was no interaction. Other lecturers were
brilliant and you would not want to miss their lecturers because of all the
insights that you got that were not in their regular "course notes".
I personally think that that the path suggest by David is not the one that will evolve. I think there will be virtual universities that you attend in a "Second Life" type environment. In other words you actually attend the classes and interact with students and university staff but through a virtual environment. I think this is technically achievable in the next 10-15 years.
Of course, this will only be available to those people with the resources to pay for these new virtual environments. Sadly, this will probably split the haves and not haves even more.
Food for thought.
I personally think that that the path suggest by David is not the one that will evolve. I think there will be virtual universities that you attend in a "Second Life" type environment. In other words you actually attend the classes and interact with students and university staff but through a virtual environment. I think this is technically achievable in the next 10-15 years.
Of course, this will only be available to those people with the resources to pay for these new virtual environments. Sadly, this will probably split the haves and not haves even more.
Food for thought.
too late, look across the pond! | 6:32 p.m. April 22, 2009
Wiley is incorrect, a bit too late, and apparently culturally isolated. Many
"relevant" and established universities outside the United States
already provide free education to their citizens and have for hundreds of years.
I think they have demonstrated their "relevance" and continue to do
so. --Cheers.
introtomarketing | 7:33 p.m. April 22, 2009
The world will be devided- people still shop in shops for the social
interaction, while the other half/third/quarter prefer online, Universities will
be the same- some people love to write letters- now they are fine with emails
and using MSN Twitter etc, others prefer to talk to people. The market will be
more segmented. There is no one solution
M
M
John | 8:13 p.m. April 22, 2009
I think it's ok to get through the first two years of generals this way,
but I would have missed some great experiences in my major if it had been all
virtual learning. Plus freshman dorms were a lot of fun.
Networking with professors, associations with fellow students (that have benefited me in networking in the CPA world), working in real group environments, etc. All of things don't exist in a virtual university.
According to this professor, we should all be working from home as well, but it will never happen 100%, because we need human interaction!
Woe be to the elementary school that tries to implement this. I send my kids to school for social interaction; otherwise, I could teach them myself.
Networking with professors, associations with fellow students (that have benefited me in networking in the CPA world), working in real group environments, etc. All of things don't exist in a virtual university.
According to this professor, we should all be working from home as well, but it will never happen 100%, because we need human interaction!
Woe be to the elementary school that tries to implement this. I send my kids to school for social interaction; otherwise, I could teach them myself.
Anonymous | 9:59 p.m. April 22, 2009
To weberly, well...I come from a background in industry before entering a PhD
program. Your 4 whole years of college education did not give you a very
accurate idea of what profs do or how much they work. Honestly, most
undergraduates don't know what goes on outside of the classes they attend -
I certainly didn't. "Sumptuous offices?" I have no idea what you
are thinking about - and probably neither do you. Debates like this online
generally attract the ill-informed and disgruntled. As others have posted,
online education has its limitations and will never entirely replace the
important face to face interaction of a classroom.
Question | 10:15 p.m. April 22, 2009
Can anyone find the YouTube video mentioned in the article and post it?
K | 11:37 p.m. April 22, 2009
One thing odd about US university. You have to take classes in various fields of
study for most majors. Some humanities, a language, some social science, some
science no matter your major. Abroad a chemistry student does math and science
only in college. With so many professionals coming into math and science fields
from abroad I wonder if we are shooting ourselves in the foot taking away from
subjects relative to the field in order to become more well rounded?
I loved graduate schools cause almost all my classes were directly relevant to my career choice. Undergrad I felt was a waste of time and money, merely an exercise of putting in my dues.
I loved graduate schools cause almost all my classes were directly relevant to my career choice. Undergrad I felt was a waste of time and money, merely an exercise of putting in my dues.
awsomeron | 12:14 a.m. April 23, 2009
What I get out of this is, BYU is already irreverent, that is why the line is so
long to get in. Any School you can be A Moral at will always be there. Yale,
Harvard, both at onetime Divinity School and at least Harvard still has a School
of Divinity.
The best thing to do here is wait till 2020 and see what is happening. I will be 74 then. In 2029 I will be 83, will the Big Rock Hit My Island and will UH, a fine party school not be under water.
I think Alternatives will become more and more and more vital, as the Cost of Education goes Up and Up.
The only place to prove its worth is in the Market Place. and if the Degree is accepted. So if you have people with Online Degrees, stacking shelves at Safeway then you will know their Value.
I was 32 and Single when I first went to College, mostly to study the G.I Bill as a 2nd Job before time ran out on the Benny. Did well with the grades, lots of distractions. Had a lot of fun, obtained a lot of Credits.
The best thing to do here is wait till 2020 and see what is happening. I will be 74 then. In 2029 I will be 83, will the Big Rock Hit My Island and will UH, a fine party school not be under water.
I think Alternatives will become more and more and more vital, as the Cost of Education goes Up and Up.
The only place to prove its worth is in the Market Place. and if the Degree is accepted. So if you have people with Online Degrees, stacking shelves at Safeway then you will know their Value.
I was 32 and Single when I first went to College, mostly to study the G.I Bill as a 2nd Job before time ran out on the Benny. Did well with the grades, lots of distractions. Had a lot of fun, obtained a lot of Credits.
NY | 8:19 a.m. April 23, 2009
While colleges are increasing their online instruction, there is one thing that
will always maintain the traditional, on site, model: Online degrees simply are
not as marketable as tradition degrees. A huge problem with online education is
that there is no way to monitor who is actually doing the work. I could sign up
for a class and pay my best friend a few bucks to do my work for me. Those who
get their degrees in person will always out compete those who get their degrees
online. In fact, I have known managers who wouldn't even bother to
interview interview online degree holders). Take a few classes online if you
want, but getting an entire degree online is worthless unless your CURRENT
employer will promote you for having done it.
This is moronic | 8:43 a.m. April 23, 2009
If any of you actually put any stock in this, I'd say you're about as
ridiculous as David Wiley himself. The fact is that at Community Colleges, State
Universities, and Private Universities only get more and more competitive every
single year, with ever increasing numbers of applications and enrollment
numbers. Because of this, colleges can afford to charge higher and higher
tuition costs every single year, this money is put towards expansion in order to
accommodate their (currently) ever-increasing demand. Eventually demand might
slow down, but only at the fringes; this will lead to less Universities, which
will offer more standardized, higher quality education. The world will not
suddenly turn to "online education" in order to solve the problem of
tuition costs. Want to know why? Because if you apply for a middle management
job in an American city at any semi-respectable firm paying upwards of even
$30,000 starting and your degree is from "University of Phoenix," your
application will be shredded. Students from these institutions will not even be
given a chance to be laughed out of an interview. Don't kid yourselves,
Universities are here to stay for quite some time.
Love my online classes | 9:45 a.m. April 23, 2009
Clearly many commentors here have not taken online college classes. A transition
like this can't happen soon enough for me. Classroom instruction is
confining and rigid, with less interaction than in online classes. There is more
discussion required and more feedback given in my online courses than in any of
my campus classes. And the availability is unmatched. I can hold a job--with
shiftwork if necessary--and still "go" to class. I can go to work or
care for my home, spend an evening with my kids or my husband, be involved in
community or church service, and STILL go to class when it fits my schedule. I
get almost daily feedback from my profs that is personal and pertinent; I am
required to engage in live online "discussions" about every single
lesson, which receive classmate and instructor responses. I do projects, field
studies, and research, write papers, and take quizzes and exams. My classes are
regionally accredited, and nowhere on my transcript does it differentiate
between online and traditional instruction. Online higher education is by far
the more valuable of all my college experiences.
To Cosmo 10:35 | 9:48 a.m. April 23, 2009
Homeschooling is not always the answer either. Parents cannot be experts in
math, art, music, English/language arts, science, theatre, chemistry etc.
I also noticed that some of those home schooled have a difficult time socializing with their peers. They have a strange shy quietness. Just my opinion based on what I have seen.
I also noticed that some of those home schooled have a difficult time socializing with their peers. They have a strange shy quietness. Just my opinion based on what I have seen.
To Anonymous | 9:59 | 10:05 a.m. April 23, 2009
Just so's you know, my four years in Academe were one year as a teaching
fellow and three as an associate professor. Before that, I was awarded a
bachelors in biology/chemistry, a doctorate in law and a masters in law (LL.M.
-- master of laws -- comes after Juris Doctor in law). That adds up to some
eight years of college education, though with indecision regarding a major,
working my way through school, and a couple dropouts for missionary and military
service, it took me 14 years, during which time I was never far from an academic
setting.
I know what I'm talking about. And I can easily justify my "sumptuous" characterization, comparing my associate professor office, even my teaching fellow office, to my first cubicle in industry. And I stand by my 6-hour productive workweek characterization, as well.
You can hide your head in the sand all you want, but the university system is already dead. It just hasn't started stinking bad enough yet for the taxpayers who fund it to bury it.
But that's coming. Soon.
I know what I'm talking about. And I can easily justify my "sumptuous" characterization, comparing my associate professor office, even my teaching fellow office, to my first cubicle in industry. And I stand by my 6-hour productive workweek characterization, as well.
You can hide your head in the sand all you want, but the university system is already dead. It just hasn't started stinking bad enough yet for the taxpayers who fund it to bury it.
But that's coming. Soon.
PhilC | 10:28 a.m. April 23, 2009
Providing education is so very broad that it is bound for continued exploitation
and change by market forces. I am here at a major Mid-Atlantic institution as an
IT staff professional. We resonant with the need for change and have taken some
major steps to join the revolution. We also have about a century and a half in
which we built strong expectations and even stronger alliances with alumni,
government and business. We do things very differently and can adapt to create
value on several fronts. Competition to provide more innovative methods to
deliver education is critical for the improving in the future and I balance the
change paradigm with my opinion that a bricks and mortar institution will always
be useful as a cultural experience. Finally, our desire to provide what
I'll call proper accreditation is what will ultimately allow us to prevail
in whatever form we choose.
Lamont Cranston | 12:42 p.m. April 23, 2009
I can see where an institution where critical and/or rational thought as well as
exposure to new & different ideas might not be thought of too highly by
someone tenured in Happy Valley.
Blind conformity works so much better or so I've been told.
Seriously, there needs to be more people interested and receiving degrees in the humanities, arts, & Sciences (social, physical, etc...).
Its depressing to think that institutions have become conformity factories for people who think an MBA, MD, DDS, or a JD is the way wealth and happiness.
Blind conformity works so much better or so I've been told.
Seriously, there needs to be more people interested and receiving degrees in the humanities, arts, & Sciences (social, physical, etc...).
Its depressing to think that institutions have become conformity factories for people who think an MBA, MD, DDS, or a JD is the way wealth and happiness.
To: K | 12:43 p.m. April 23, 2009
The reason universities abroad only have their students take classes in a
concentrated area (Math, Science, etc.) is because students choose what
'line' they will study when they start high school. In essence, they
begin their college preparation at age 16. That way, they can be more focused
once they're actually at a university. They also have the option to quit
school at 16, go to trade school, etc. Maybe an option for our less motivated
students? It would certainly improve the learning environment for those who are
motivated.
To Look Ahead: Microsoft looks down on academia? Yeah, that's why they require new hires to have MS and PhD degrees in Computer Science.
The greatest things I gained from my university education were an ability to think critically and the opportunity to associate and learn from individuals with backgrounds vastly different from my own. I do not believe that these valuable skills could be learned sitting at home in front of my computer. With no faculty mentors or fellow students to challenge my thought process, or show me a different way to think about the world?!
To Look Ahead: Microsoft looks down on academia? Yeah, that's why they require new hires to have MS and PhD degrees in Computer Science.
The greatest things I gained from my university education were an ability to think critically and the opportunity to associate and learn from individuals with backgrounds vastly different from my own. I do not believe that these valuable skills could be learned sitting at home in front of my computer. With no faculty mentors or fellow students to challenge my thought process, or show me a different way to think about the world?!
Online HS a joke | 12:53 p.m. April 23, 2009
My sister went abroad as a nanny for half her junior year and had to take high
school classes online--she almost didn't graduate (a year later)! When she
was supposed to be working on her online classes, she ended up chatting with
friends, looking at YouTube, etc.
One of the most important aspects of the school system is STRUCTURE. How many employers let you come and go as you please? Let you do your work if you feel like it? The problem is, as others on this board have mentioned, that many kids don't want to go to school. They go because they have to. If someone gives them an easy way around it, they'll take it--there are plenty of more fun things to do.
There are so many distractions nowadays, and parents seem to be very willing to let their kids participate in anything and everything their hearts desire. What this leads to are wishy-washy individuals who can't stand to do the same thing for 5 minutes, let alone 5 years. To me, that sounds spoiled.
More accessible information and education? Yes, by all means. Free ticket to failure? No thanks.
One of the most important aspects of the school system is STRUCTURE. How many employers let you come and go as you please? Let you do your work if you feel like it? The problem is, as others on this board have mentioned, that many kids don't want to go to school. They go because they have to. If someone gives them an easy way around it, they'll take it--there are plenty of more fun things to do.
There are so many distractions nowadays, and parents seem to be very willing to let their kids participate in anything and everything their hearts desire. What this leads to are wishy-washy individuals who can't stand to do the same thing for 5 minutes, let alone 5 years. To me, that sounds spoiled.
More accessible information and education? Yes, by all means. Free ticket to failure? No thanks.
Anonymous | 1:06 p.m. April 23, 2009
Hmmmm...well, weberly is now adding degrees to his pedigree, but, since this is
the anonymity of cyber-space, I guess we'll just have to take him or her at
his/her word. You don't really sound much like a lawyer.
I can only say that my experiences and impressions are diametrically opposed to yours. Including the "sumptuous" comment and the "6 hour" workweek, particularly given that professors are some of the most highly trained professionals and the central 'producers' of the products (learning and scholarship) in the academic industry. By the way, you do realize that "surgeons" go through a great deal of schooling before they ever pick up a knife - the idea of "on the job training" here is ludicrous.
As always, people seem to feel the need for gross hyperbole in order to make their point.
I can only say that my experiences and impressions are diametrically opposed to yours. Including the "sumptuous" comment and the "6 hour" workweek, particularly given that professors are some of the most highly trained professionals and the central 'producers' of the products (learning and scholarship) in the academic industry. By the way, you do realize that "surgeons" go through a great deal of schooling before they ever pick up a knife - the idea of "on the job training" here is ludicrous.
As always, people seem to feel the need for gross hyperbole in order to make their point.
Wally West | 2:18 p.m. April 23, 2009
re: The Marriage Factor | 6:59 a.m. April 21, 2009
I knew it! The M.R.S. is the most popular degree @ the Y.
I knew it! The M.R.S. is the most popular degree @ the Y.
Doodles | 4:01 p.m. April 23, 2009
I think online education is fabulous. I, for one, learned more reading all the
points of view in the comments on this article than I did reading the report
created by the professional journalist who interviewed the professional
educator. So much for insisting that face-to-face is the only model that is
viable.
LazyProf | 5:23 p.m. April 23, 2009
A few things happening in Higher Ed:
1.Exponential increases in university budgets, all of which go to administration
2.Mushrooming class sizes that prevent meaningful interaction with students ("Hey, you can do SO MUCH with clickers")
3.Grade inflation that has made "A" at best the equivalent of "Pass"
4.Ubiquitous availability of, and unethical copying from, solution manuals
A few reasons why online will succeed in some form:
1.University presidents will want it because (they think) it will reduce expenses
2.Students will demand it because of flexibility, quality, and adaptive content appropriate for various backgrounds and learning styles.
3.Industry will demand it because activity reports will provide much better details of student work habits and competence than transcripts.
Regarding disparaging comments about "Ivory Tower" employees, I have no problem conceding my "parasitic" role in society. Still, I hope that the incrementally improved salaries of graduates will lead to state revenues that will offset my salary. In spite of my threats to ride on my tenure and work only 9 hours per week, I still work long hours developing, among other things, online courses that anyone with some motivation will be able to take for free.
1.Exponential increases in university budgets, all of which go to administration
2.Mushrooming class sizes that prevent meaningful interaction with students ("Hey, you can do SO MUCH with clickers")
3.Grade inflation that has made "A" at best the equivalent of "Pass"
4.Ubiquitous availability of, and unethical copying from, solution manuals
A few reasons why online will succeed in some form:
1.University presidents will want it because (they think) it will reduce expenses
2.Students will demand it because of flexibility, quality, and adaptive content appropriate for various backgrounds and learning styles.
3.Industry will demand it because activity reports will provide much better details of student work habits and competence than transcripts.
Regarding disparaging comments about "Ivory Tower" employees, I have no problem conceding my "parasitic" role in society. Still, I hope that the incrementally improved salaries of graduates will lead to state revenues that will offset my salary. In spite of my threats to ride on my tenure and work only 9 hours per week, I still work long hours developing, among other things, online courses that anyone with some motivation will be able to take for free.
awsomeron | 8:10 p.m. April 23, 2009
Some times the Truly Gifted do not make it through School. Either distractions
stop them, or they fold up the first time things get hard. Because it has always
been easy for them.
My youngest Son 20 is going to Community College and doing okay with an IQ of around 90-95 and a couple of learning disabilities. Nothing has ever been easy for him. However We have never told him don't or No. With Us it has always been advice and consent from High School on.
I have always told him, work hard and you will win most, lose some and take it on the average.
Not Long ago when I went to and Graduated from Heald College, nothing was easy for me. With the exception of the Business and Marketing Classes. Math had to be taken as Review 1st and Higher Math had to be taken twice. Computer Math, Stock Tracking and Spreadsheets, I did okay.
Some Classes can be taken on the Computer. I had a really sweet teacher in Medical Transcription Class. All and all we came out in the upper 3rd of the pack.
Anything that fits and is accepted and works is okay.
My youngest Son 20 is going to Community College and doing okay with an IQ of around 90-95 and a couple of learning disabilities. Nothing has ever been easy for him. However We have never told him don't or No. With Us it has always been advice and consent from High School on.
I have always told him, work hard and you will win most, lose some and take it on the average.
Not Long ago when I went to and Graduated from Heald College, nothing was easy for me. With the exception of the Business and Marketing Classes. Math had to be taken as Review 1st and Higher Math had to be taken twice. Computer Math, Stock Tracking and Spreadsheets, I did okay.
Some Classes can be taken on the Computer. I had a really sweet teacher in Medical Transcription Class. All and all we came out in the upper 3rd of the pack.
Anything that fits and is accepted and works is okay.
University, its a wonderful expe | 8:50 p.m. April 23, 2009
For me University was a mind expanding experience. The philosophy classes, the
math classes, the history, the political science, and yes the electrical
engineering classes.
A great advantage of being taught in a classroom setting is that you tend to study subjects and are forced to hear points of view you wouldn't put up with otherwise.
Some of these views are no doubt presented to challenge the person, other times they make a lot of sense.
I wouldn't trade my education, university or self taught for anything.
A great advantage of being taught in a classroom setting is that you tend to study subjects and are forced to hear points of view you wouldn't put up with otherwise.
Some of these views are no doubt presented to challenge the person, other times they make a lot of sense.
I wouldn't trade my education, university or self taught for anything.
really? | 8:52 p.m. April 23, 2009
"Universities will be 'irrelevant' by 2020, Y. professor
says"
Yes and oil will run out by 1970, we are headed for an ice age, and the sky is falling.
Yes and oil will run out by 1970, we are headed for an ice age, and the sky is falling.
Anonymous | 10:07 p.m. April 23, 2009
Wiley is naive and his comment is irresponsible. HE is the one who is
irrelevant.
Josh | 8:37 a.m. April 24, 2009
Utterly absurd. Distance learning has been around for years and I'm not
sure we've seen any decline in college enrollment. It's simply not the
same experience and many, many people enjoy the college experience. The social
value is tremendous and cannot be replicated by the distance learning model. I
don't care if you can sit at home and have 3-D holographic images projected
in your bedroom - it is NOT the same thing as actually being there. College
ain't going away in ten years. What an absurd thing to say.
Jorge Aldrovandi | 10:46 a.m. April 24, 2009
Usted tiene toda la razn.
El conocimiento ya circula fuera de las universidades
------------------------------------------------------
Voc tem toda a razo. O conhecimento acontece j fora das universidades.
------------------------------------------------------
El conocimiento ya circula fuera de las universidades
------------------------------------------------------
Voc tem toda a razo. O conhecimento acontece j fora das universidades.
------------------------------------------------------
Mark | 10:50 a.m. April 24, 2009
If you tested every college student 6 months after they took a course, how much
would they retain (i.e truly learn)? I think a large amount of formal education
at the university level is memorization that quickly becomes forgotten.
My experience with on-line courses has been tremendously positive. I particularly like that online courses typically allow online conversations that turn out to be very thoughtful and educational - as students have the time to think before posting!
These comments are a living testament to the value of online education - imagine if all 130 of us were in one room trying to have this conversation.
The costs of a college education are far outpacing the average person's ability to pay. Something has to change.
My experience with on-line courses has been tremendously positive. I particularly like that online courses typically allow online conversations that turn out to be very thoughtful and educational - as students have the time to think before posting!
These comments are a living testament to the value of online education - imagine if all 130 of us were in one room trying to have this conversation.
The costs of a college education are far outpacing the average person's ability to pay. Something has to change.
Anonymous | 11:52 a.m. April 24, 2009
Alright, let's just close K-12 schools as well since they learn everything
via the internet and texting. They can learn virtually at the age of 14 because
we all know that they'll be focusing on school work and never Twitter and
YouTube. The average American student knows practically nothing and that's
WITH a controlled educational curriculum. Take that away and they'll know a
heck of a lot about dating and fashion and video games, but nothing about the
real world or any of the things they need to know. What 14 year old kid is
going to research things other than girls and video games anyway? For college
students it is a bit different, but I think they need a guided environment where
they can learn how to work in groups on real-world projects. Even adults need
to learn how to socialize and work together, not rely on a virtual world of
information to teach them what they need to know. I'm in college now. As
much as I hate going to class, I think it's good for me. Otherwise
I'd just sit on the computer all day every day.
awsomeron | 1:03 p.m. April 24, 2009
I think he is wrong, however the Internet and other forms of Education will
become more and more vital.
There is the factor of the Social Growth that happens when we go to College. Just like there is Social Growth be Junior High and High School.
Going to a College does not an expanded mind make. It is harder today, because we can always call people on our Cell Phones, Text, and other wise keep in touch or in some cases in control. It is hard to form New Relationships if the Old Ones do not get off the phone.
It used to be that when you where off to college you where really off to College. Now not so much.
People resist change, some people where scared of the Telephone when it was New and becoming comon in Households. Many older people where and still are scared of Computers. While some of us Ran to embrace the New World and access to the World it offered.
I know lots of kids that research things other then Girls/Boys and Video Games mine among them. My daughter has a Blog. Girls/Boys need to be explored thats Normal Behavior.
There is the factor of the Social Growth that happens when we go to College. Just like there is Social Growth be Junior High and High School.
Going to a College does not an expanded mind make. It is harder today, because we can always call people on our Cell Phones, Text, and other wise keep in touch or in some cases in control. It is hard to form New Relationships if the Old Ones do not get off the phone.
It used to be that when you where off to college you where really off to College. Now not so much.
People resist change, some people where scared of the Telephone when it was New and becoming comon in Households. Many older people where and still are scared of Computers. While some of us Ran to embrace the New World and access to the World it offered.
I know lots of kids that research things other then Girls/Boys and Video Games mine among them. My daughter has a Blog. Girls/Boys need to be explored thats Normal Behavior.
anon | 8:47 a.m. April 25, 2009
This is great as a way that people who -- for whatever reason -- couldn't
otherwise access education to more easily do so. My school offers some of its
lectures for free online in an effort to achieve that goal. (Search
"Academic Earth" + "David Blight" to watch every lecture for
my awesome History of the Civil War class.)
But whenever I hear someone complain about the fact that nothing they learned in school is applicable to their professional life, I cringe a little. College, in its best form, is only in part about the specific factual knowledge acquired. More significantly, it should be about the experience of learning -- not just seeing lectures and reading books, but engaging with smart people and engaging in activities that foster intellectual development outside the classroom. That is what is so appealing about the best schools, and what most people misunderstand. Yes, of course, you can learn all the hard facts at most any school that a student at a great school learns by knowing what to read and watch and by locking yourself in the library. But that's only half the point.
But whenever I hear someone complain about the fact that nothing they learned in school is applicable to their professional life, I cringe a little. College, in its best form, is only in part about the specific factual knowledge acquired. More significantly, it should be about the experience of learning -- not just seeing lectures and reading books, but engaging with smart people and engaging in activities that foster intellectual development outside the classroom. That is what is so appealing about the best schools, and what most people misunderstand. Yes, of course, you can learn all the hard facts at most any school that a student at a great school learns by knowing what to read and watch and by locking yourself in the library. But that's only half the point.
Cherry | 2:55 p.m. April 25, 2009
I feel online schools can be adventitious for both high school graduates and
adults. As an online learner myself I know I enjoy the many advantages online
learning provides me such as keeping my full time job, cutting babysitting
costs, and lower tuition. I actually teach a lesson about online learning to my
classes where students are provided with both the pros and cons of learning over
the internet. Many students have never considered college, but when provided
with the benefits and costs they are looking forward to attending various online
universities.
John B | 3:24 p.m. April 25, 2009
Mr Wiley is leaving out a huge part of the equation for any large university:
research. Research is just as important as teaching in a classroom setting. Even
if universities are challenged with the new open learning opportunities that are
discussed by the article's author, university research will likely not be
affected. It is naive to think that universities will become irrelevant just
because the classroom is changing due to the availability of learning materials
and alternative school systems. Research will continue to make universities
relevant.
Karin | 2:05 a.m. April 27, 2009
I am currently a student at University of Phoenix in their MA program for
Secondary Education. As I am a US citizen living in Indonesia I did not have
many options of where I could get my degree. I have found the low quality of
student work accepted at UoP very frustrating. I graduated with a BA in English
from a traditional 4-year college in 1995. There I was pushed to think beyond
boundaries, challenged to try new ways of doing things. I thought that UoP was
a "new way" of doing things. I am trying it, but the half-baked
papers that my student teams have submitted that have received A's frankly
astounds me. Many papers are written as a group and so I do not have total
control over quality. I would have given our last team paper a B-, but the
teacher gave it 100%. This was not a one-time kind of event. It's
happened in all 6 Master's level classes that I have taken in the last 8
months. The quality of work accepted and given excellent passing scores by
professors as is shamefully low.
Anon | 10:09 a.m. April 27, 2009
1st thought: Well, of course you want your surgeon to have a degree from an
accredited institution. (Note that online degrees CAN be accredited.)
When it comes down to the final choice, though, I personally don't ask to see his or her diploma. I want a track record: How many times have you done this type of surgery? What is your success ratio?
Those questions have very little to do with where he or she got her education and everything to do with "on-the-job" training and post-educational study and training.
2nd thought: Go back to the original story and notice that Professor Wiley didn't actually say all universities will go away; he said that universities that don't adapt to a more shared, online environment won't be able to compete with those that do. (2nd and 3rd paragraphs for those of you who didn't read that far.)
When it comes down to the final choice, though, I personally don't ask to see his or her diploma. I want a track record: How many times have you done this type of surgery? What is your success ratio?
Those questions have very little to do with where he or she got her education and everything to do with "on-the-job" training and post-educational study and training.
2nd thought: Go back to the original story and notice that Professor Wiley didn't actually say all universities will go away; he said that universities that don't adapt to a more shared, online environment won't be able to compete with those that do. (2nd and 3rd paragraphs for those of you who didn't read that far.)
URLs not allowed | 10:35 a.m. April 27, 2009
No one can post the link to the "What if" Youtube video because that
would be in violation of the "No URLs" rule.
If you happen to have found it, could you post the search terms you entered?
I had some success googling: chalk calculators ballpoint pens education
I didn't get to the Youtube video, but I did find a powerpoint presentation that seems to make the description. (Third item down when I googled.)
If you happen to have found it, could you post the search terms you entered?
I had some success googling: chalk calculators ballpoint pens education
I didn't get to the Youtube video, but I did find a powerpoint presentation that seems to make the description. (Third item down when I googled.)
David Wiley | 11:15 a.m. April 27, 2009
If you Google 'fischbowl what if' (without quotes) the very top link
will take you to Karl's page describing and linking to the video.
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Nevertheless, we must concede that online schools are growing in prominence? But by 2020? Really? Traditional colleges are still filled to the brim, scholars are still producing great research and teaching (yeah, many do!) and many people actually get a great deal from their education (yes! also true!) while the online community faces some serious shortfalls in quality, talent, and legitimacy. Online teaching, in other words, still needs to grow up if it is really to be viable - I've been editing some online "doctorates," and they fall far, far short of legitimate graduate degrees. Likewise, I've taught at a for-profit college, and again, it feel far short. Online may still grow into a viable educational alternative, but then, typically, people will begin to argue that classrooms need to come back, students learn more face-to-face, and this whole tired debate will completely reverse itself. Sorry, I disagree, brick-and-mortar colleges have been around since the middle ages and will probably stay for a while more.