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LDS one of nation's largest, fastest growing churches
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Lost in space | 2:59 p.m. April 15, 2009
It was my birthday and so I decided to go to This the place heritage park in
SLC. I am not a member of the church but love "all" USA pioneer
history. However, while I was there I thought I had found a nice lady to talk to
and so I set down beside her on a bench within the park and I said hello to her
and she started to mumble right off the bat, without ever saying hello back to
me that her and her husband just got off a mission and that they had two sons
who were on a missions, and that she had an Uncle who was a mission president
and that they just were just waiting to hear about where their two nephews were
going on their missions and then she got up and left without ever say hello.
That was my encounter with a braggadocios LDS woman.
Anonymous | 3:09 p.m. April 15, 2009
You have a point EARNEST T.BASS-
If the LDS did have it all on one speaker phone it would all then be one story instead of so many makeup and different stories.
If the LDS did have it all on one speaker phone it would all then be one story instead of so many makeup and different stories.
Windriver | 3:15 p.m. April 15, 2009
1:16 Anonymous Reply
You hit the nail right on the head! Thanx for saying what so many of us feel.
You hit the nail right on the head! Thanx for saying what so many of us feel.
Comments continue below
James | 3:26 p.m. April 15, 2009
We will all find out when we die, for some of you dying will be much harder.
Anne | 3:35 p.m. April 15, 2009
Mormons sure are a self rightious group. Running around calling their church the
"one true church" is pretty heady stuff. I'll take TRUE
christianity over Mormonism's fairy tales anytime.
It's a cult just like Scientology, only weirder.
I left the LDS church at 20, some 25 years ago, and all my old "friends" and even much of my family chose that fantasyland over me.
Mormons are weak people. Being steered and controlled.
They are homophobic and judgmental and very UN Christian.
Anne L.
It's a cult just like Scientology, only weirder.
I left the LDS church at 20, some 25 years ago, and all my old "friends" and even much of my family chose that fantasyland over me.
Mormons are weak people. Being steered and controlled.
They are homophobic and judgmental and very UN Christian.
Anne L.
Re: Ernest T Bass | 3:39 p.m. April 15, 2009
Yes, it would be so much easier for the Lord to use a speaker phone to get his
message across but he doesn't. Why because everyone has their own agency
to choose what they hear and what they don't.
When Christ was on the Earth he had crowds of individuals including naysayers, such as yourself, at his meetings. He read scripture to them and such yet they still didn't believe who he was. There have been many prophets of the Old Testament that basically did the same thing as the modern day prophets. Some believed them but the MAJORITY refused to listen. Just as many have done today, they stone, ridicule and spit on the prophets of old. That even happens today.
No the Lord is not going to tell us about the economy or wars in Iraq because those are the effects of the natural man. The natural man is an enemy to God. No he is going to relate spiritual things and what will bring peopl back to him. The other belongs only to the world, not to God.
When Christ was on the Earth he had crowds of individuals including naysayers, such as yourself, at his meetings. He read scripture to them and such yet they still didn't believe who he was. There have been many prophets of the Old Testament that basically did the same thing as the modern day prophets. Some believed them but the MAJORITY refused to listen. Just as many have done today, they stone, ridicule and spit on the prophets of old. That even happens today.
No the Lord is not going to tell us about the economy or wars in Iraq because those are the effects of the natural man. The natural man is an enemy to God. No he is going to relate spiritual things and what will bring peopl back to him. The other belongs only to the world, not to God.
Curious reader of Interesting | 3:47 p.m. April 15, 2009
Re to Interesting 1:09pm 4/14/09 on this discussion
Funny to me that statistics are listed on this post/blog claiming a percentage of .002%?
The math I learned in school gave me a different result from the statistics being cited.
If the Church membership is 13 million world wide, then isn't the membership portion of the worlds population actually more accuratly represented by
0.217%
Since 13 million divided by 6 billion is .00217?
I don't trust the theological rantings of individuals who fail to properly use simple logic and arithmetic skills to solve simple fractions. I believe proficiency in those same analystic skills are essential as a foundation when trying to discuss many of the more abstract and intangible principles of religion.
Seems curious?
Funny to me that statistics are listed on this post/blog claiming a percentage of .002%?
The math I learned in school gave me a different result from the statistics being cited.
If the Church membership is 13 million world wide, then isn't the membership portion of the worlds population actually more accuratly represented by
0.217%
Since 13 million divided by 6 billion is .00217?
I don't trust the theological rantings of individuals who fail to properly use simple logic and arithmetic skills to solve simple fractions. I believe proficiency in those same analystic skills are essential as a foundation when trying to discuss many of the more abstract and intangible principles of religion.
Seems curious?
Perfection | 3:56 p.m. April 15, 2009
Since Christ is the only perfect person to ever walk on the earth, how can
anyone else state that the followers must also be perfect. That isn't
going to happen at all in this life.
Christ even stated that, "Be ye perfect even as I am perfect." Yet, he knew what his mission on this earth was. Each man, woman and child that walks upon the earth sin regardless who they are. The only difference is that those children who die before the age of accountability will see the highest degree of glory in the Lord's house.
The Lord specifically stated the THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTERDAY SAINTS is his Church. We hold to that belief and state it as a fact. Our testimonies to that effect ring true around the world. We state that all Churches on this earth hold some truths to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Come with your truth and we will add to it. Since, everyone is human, we all make mistakes. It is important for us to strive to be perfect but we will come up short. That is why the atonement is so real to us.
Christ even stated that, "Be ye perfect even as I am perfect." Yet, he knew what his mission on this earth was. Each man, woman and child that walks upon the earth sin regardless who they are. The only difference is that those children who die before the age of accountability will see the highest degree of glory in the Lord's house.
The Lord specifically stated the THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTERDAY SAINTS is his Church. We hold to that belief and state it as a fact. Our testimonies to that effect ring true around the world. We state that all Churches on this earth hold some truths to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Come with your truth and we will add to it. Since, everyone is human, we all make mistakes. It is important for us to strive to be perfect but we will come up short. That is why the atonement is so real to us.
Charles | 4:04 p.m. April 15, 2009
ETBass: can you site the source for your statistics? I like to deal with real
numbers and not some made up from your head.
@1:16 Anonymous Reply | 2:40 p.m. April 15, 2009
Your post is most comical. Maybe you should read the Bible a little more where is says that all men sin and fall short. That's the purpose of the Atonement that was just celebrated this past Sunday. Maybe you missed it. If you need more information regarding the gospel of Christ, contact your local missionaries.
As for the perfect church claim, maybe you should read WHO said that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is His church. If you want to argue about it, wait until you die and then have at it. Until then, you're just another blowhard who has an axe to grind.
@1:16 Anonymous Reply | 2:40 p.m. April 15, 2009
Your post is most comical. Maybe you should read the Bible a little more where is says that all men sin and fall short. That's the purpose of the Atonement that was just celebrated this past Sunday. Maybe you missed it. If you need more information regarding the gospel of Christ, contact your local missionaries.
As for the perfect church claim, maybe you should read WHO said that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is His church. If you want to argue about it, wait until you die and then have at it. Until then, you're just another blowhard who has an axe to grind.
Anonymous | 4:07 p.m. April 15, 2009
Curious reader of Interesting: The world's populations is somewhere around
6.77 billion. That equals 1.995%.
Anonymous | 4:11 p.m. April 15, 2009
Also, LDS are 1.96% of America population.
Ernest T. Bass | 4:21 p.m. April 15, 2009
13,000,000 / 6,000,000,000 = 0.00216
That's it. 0.00216 of the current population is LDS.
Think of parents who will only see 0.00216 of their children ever again (and the actual active tithe payers are far fewer than 13,000,000 so that percentage is even smaller).
0.00216: That is the best-case scenario for the current population who will spend eternity in heaven.
I still say if God has something to say he'll use a speaker phone and instant message everyone at the same time.
Right now, less than 0.00216 will hear his message and I believe he's more efficient than that.
That's it. 0.00216 of the current population is LDS.
Think of parents who will only see 0.00216 of their children ever again (and the actual active tithe payers are far fewer than 13,000,000 so that percentage is even smaller).
0.00216: That is the best-case scenario for the current population who will spend eternity in heaven.
I still say if God has something to say he'll use a speaker phone and instant message everyone at the same time.
Right now, less than 0.00216 will hear his message and I believe he's more efficient than that.
JUDGEMENT for ALL | 4:26 p.m. April 15, 2009
I think the Mormons are going to get the surprise of their lives when they reach
the other side of life, because there will only be waiting for them a leader of
darkness. They think they know everything there is to know because someone else
told them so. Mormons are too shallow and have no reason to be so pompous and
look down on others.
Re : Charles you are a know it all who knows nothing!
Re : Charles you are a know it all who knows nothing!
Ernest T. Bass | 4:31 p.m. April 15, 2009
re: Obama Repulican
Yes, there are buildings being built. Temples too.
Did you know that wards and even stakes in Europe are closing and being consolodated?
In many areas wards are shrinking. Maybe not in Utah but outside of the western US that is often the case.
Yes, there are buildings being built. Temples too.
Did you know that wards and even stakes in Europe are closing and being consolodated?
In many areas wards are shrinking. Maybe not in Utah but outside of the western US that is often the case.
G | 4:39 p.m. April 15, 2009
Given the differences in counting members between denominations, and the high
levels of inactivity amongst baptized Latter-day Saints, the only meaningful
statistical measure of the Church's true size and growth is a count of the
weekly attendance.
I don't think we do that so the real numbers are a matter of speculation.
I don't think we do that so the real numbers are a matter of speculation.
re:Ernest T. Bass | 5:11 p.m. April 15, 2009
where did you come up with that nonsense? True growth comes from children who
get baptised (8 year olds not 9) but a HUGE amount of growth also comes from the
convert baptisms from the missionaries all across the world. Somehow you forgot
to use that figure in your calculation. If you listen to General Conference they
announce the # of convert baptisms. A convert baptism IS NOT counted as an 8
year old child who gets baptized from a member family. Those are children of
record. So Mr. Ernest T. Bass, the remarkable thing about the LDS church is the
CONVERT baptisms performed by missionaries all across the world and that number
is in hundreds of thousands. So, the LDS church IS the fastest growing church in
the world today and a large part of that growth is from Catholic and Protestants
leaving their church's and joining with the latter day saints. Finally, the
retention of convert baptisms is VERY high in the US and Japan and getting
better in South America and other third world countries as more temples are
built in out lying areas.
re:Ernest T. Bass | 5:16 p.m. April 15, 2009
you forget the thousands of converts that missionaries world wide bring into the
church each year.
re:Ernest T. Bass | 5:23 p.m. April 15, 2009
where did you come up with your data? Let me correct you on a couple of points.
First, children are baptized at 8 - not 9. If you knew anything about the lds
church you would know that. Secondly, in General Conference, the general
authorities separate out the "children of record" and the
"convert baptisms" so you are wrong there too. Thirdly, your activity
percentages are nonsense. The church ONLY builds a temple if the activity rate
and full time tithe payers for an area reach a certain level for a sustained
period of time - by your percentages there would be NO TEMPLES being built
anywhere in the world but as you should know (but probably don't) there are
many new temples announced world wide yearly. You obviously have a bone to pick
with the church but throwing a blanket of propaganda over your head isn't
the way to resolve it.
nonsense Mr Bass | 5:38 p.m. April 15, 2009
Mr Ernest T Bass, where in the wide world of sports did you arrive at those
percentages? Think for a minute Ernest about one thing ... temples. Did you know
that there are new temples announced each year across the world? Did you also
know that in over for a temple to be built the membership MUST be at a certain
level for a sustained period of time (and growing) AND the full time tithe
payers must also be at a certain level before a shovel EVER goes into the
ground. By your calculations and percentages, there would be NO TEMPLES being
built anywhere in the world. Sorry Mr Bass but the LDS church is growning with
convert baptisms faster than ANY other Christian religion in the world and the
proof is in the number of temples being built.
Ernest T. Bass | 6:24 p.m. April 15, 2009
Well according to what prophets in the Old Testament testified about, yes we
would have warnings about the economy and the mess in Iraq.
As for percentages, do the math. It's pretty simple.
And yes, activity is shrinking in England and Europe.
As for percentages, do the math. It's pretty simple.
And yes, activity is shrinking in England and Europe.
Thomas | 6:30 p.m. April 15, 2009
Perhaps the best measure of the relative strength of various churches is not the
number that they report as members but rather the number of people who identify
themselves as members. In 2008, the American Religious Indentification Survey
found that about 3,158,000 American adults identified themselves as members of
the LDS Church.
Seven years earlier, an estimated 2,697,000 adults so identified themselves. According to that figure, the LDS Church grew by about 17 percent in seven years, about the same as the rate of increase in the adult population.
Of course, if children were included, these numbers would be different.
From this, we can draw two conclusions. First, there are probably a lot of people on the membership rolls of the LDS Church who no longer consider themselves members. Second, the church is growing at a respectable, but not stellar rate in the United States.
Seven years earlier, an estimated 2,697,000 adults so identified themselves. According to that figure, the LDS Church grew by about 17 percent in seven years, about the same as the rate of increase in the adult population.
Of course, if children were included, these numbers would be different.
From this, we can draw two conclusions. First, there are probably a lot of people on the membership rolls of the LDS Church who no longer consider themselves members. Second, the church is growing at a respectable, but not stellar rate in the United States.
The great one | 7:24 p.m. April 15, 2009
Who cares how fast the LDS is growing. The prophecy's also talk about the
great abominable church as well. It would make sense then that it would grow at
fast rates. It is easier to be evil than it is to be good.
church growth in France | 8:53 p.m. April 15, 2009
Why no temple yet in France? almost 35,000 members there. ???
John D | 2:36 a.m. April 16, 2009
Figures are a guide - these provide the Church an opportunity to compare one
year with another. Way more important than figures are the people that they
represent. Just as some come into the Church only knowing a very small amount I
fear that some leave the Church also having been exposed to small amounts of the
negative stories. The easiest thing in the world is to create half-truths that
confuse or to interpret truths inaccurately.
We all must find truth for ourselves. My only hope is that no-one misses out on whatever blessings there might be simply because it was 'cool' to find fault; easier to ridicule and pull down than to honestly and prayerfully search.
We all must find truth for ourselves. My only hope is that no-one misses out on whatever blessings there might be simply because it was 'cool' to find fault; easier to ridicule and pull down than to honestly and prayerfully search.
Jeanne | 8:03 a.m. April 16, 2009
No kidding...What's with the Mormon ego? Thinking that they are the "1
true church".
It's not even a real church...it's a gigantic business. The "prophets" are just telling you they're prophets. As kids we are always admonished to "follow the prophets...follow the prophets" They started to brainwash us way back then.
It's a big cult/scam/pyramid thing.
Ex LDS J
It's not even a real church...it's a gigantic business. The "prophets" are just telling you they're prophets. As kids we are always admonished to "follow the prophets...follow the prophets" They started to brainwash us way back then.
It's a big cult/scam/pyramid thing.
Ex LDS J
To Jeanne at 8:03 | 8:25 a.m. April 16, 2009
You are right, sad to say. And sadder yet, is that they will blindly defend
their "church", too brainwashed to see further than their BOM or any
orders sent down from their "leaders". Most Mormons can't do a
thing without direction. There is no allowance for free-thinking or anyone even
1 inch outside the lines. My husband was told that he "asked too many
questions', and was told in many matters that "the thinking had been
done".
That's not a church. It is INDEED a big pyramid scheme.
the 12 and the 2 70's are getting rich. But then the flock will tell you that they work for free...blah blah blah.
Glad we're no longer part of that zoo.
Celia
That's not a church. It is INDEED a big pyramid scheme.
the 12 and the 2 70's are getting rich. But then the flock will tell you that they work for free...blah blah blah.
Glad we're no longer part of that zoo.
Celia
re: jeanne | 8:28 a.m. April 16, 2009
they think they're the number one true church because they are told,
starting at four years old, that they are, in fact, the number one and only true
church.
the caveat is provided that "all religions hold some truth." but that's like being a red sox fan and saying "all teams win some games." you still think the sox are the only thing that matters, and that everyone else is a total idiot.
i'm starting a new nickname for mormons right now, in fact. the celestial sox.
the caveat is provided that "all religions hold some truth." but that's like being a red sox fan and saying "all teams win some games." you still think the sox are the only thing that matters, and that everyone else is a total idiot.
i'm starting a new nickname for mormons right now, in fact. the celestial sox.
To Re; J at 8:28 | 8:45 a.m. April 16, 2009
Or the "Celestial Detroit Lions"! Ha
Too funny!!!
What a circus is the whole LDS thing.
Cheers,
Lori
Too funny!!!
What a circus is the whole LDS thing.
Cheers,
Lori
Mike | 8:56 a.m. April 16, 2009
History can and is manipulated all the time. Mostly to put the best spin on
things. Boo to all of you that think that just because the Church doesn't
publish all the history, warts and all, that you won't go to church or
leave the church. Keep building your houses out of straw.
So what if Brigham was a tyrant. At times he had to be based on the circumstances. You have to learn how to separate the human being from his church calling at times.
History is what one makes. Michael Quinn has an agenda and it is obvious when you read his material. His bias shows. Same with others both in and out of the church. That doesn't make the church any less true.
So what if Brigham was a tyrant. At times he had to be based on the circumstances. You have to learn how to separate the human being from his church calling at times.
History is what one makes. Michael Quinn has an agenda and it is obvious when you read his material. His bias shows. Same with others both in and out of the church. That doesn't make the church any less true.
re: Mike | 9:16 a.m. April 16, 2009
Quinn was a fully active Mormon and employed at byu when he wrote his books.
What exactly was his agenda? Objectivity? Objectivity isn't an agenda, but
subjectivity is.
The fact that he didn't sugar-coat history and ignore less than perfect fact doesn't mean he has an agenda. In fact anything published by D-book has the agenda.
The numbers show this isn't the rock rolling forth out of the mountain to encompass the entire world.
The fact that he didn't sugar-coat history and ignore less than perfect fact doesn't mean he has an agenda. In fact anything published by D-book has the agenda.
The numbers show this isn't the rock rolling forth out of the mountain to encompass the entire world.
Charles | 9:22 a.m. April 16, 2009
@judgement for all: thanks for the laughs. You provided nothing to the
discussion but your lame opinion.
@ETBass: please provide your sources for all of your plainly stated statistics. And I'm not talking about the world population numbers I'm talking about everything else you seem to know.
Do you come out of the hills and run the financial wing of the LDS church?
You claim a lot of things but offer no proof or sources.
@ETBass: please provide your sources for all of your plainly stated statistics. And I'm not talking about the world population numbers I'm talking about everything else you seem to know.
Do you come out of the hills and run the financial wing of the LDS church?
You claim a lot of things but offer no proof or sources.
Rough Stone Rolling | 9:38 a.m. April 16, 2009
Richard Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling is an excellent biography of Joseph
Smith that is both fair and very scholarly. I think he gives an excellent
portrayal that nobody can claim is biased. Reading that has really strengthened
my ideas of who Joseph Smith was and why he was such a great man. Nobody has
ever claimed Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or any other church leader is perfect.
They are only trying to become perfect.
I'm amused by all the people who think their comments will get censored. What makes you think so? The Deseret News already reported the Catholic Church membership, why would they censor a comment on it. The church is very scholarly, members are very intelligent, and there is always a healthy, smart discussion of history. I admit some of this is frosted over for younger members, but the church doesn't try to hide anything. President Hinckley made sure that the church is open.
As for the conversion rates all of you mention, bless all of you in your work. I am a ward mission leader in Korea, and we have less than half of 35 baptized active, but the work still rolls on.
I'm amused by all the people who think their comments will get censored. What makes you think so? The Deseret News already reported the Catholic Church membership, why would they censor a comment on it. The church is very scholarly, members are very intelligent, and there is always a healthy, smart discussion of history. I admit some of this is frosted over for younger members, but the church doesn't try to hide anything. President Hinckley made sure that the church is open.
As for the conversion rates all of you mention, bless all of you in your work. I am a ward mission leader in Korea, and we have less than half of 35 baptized active, but the work still rolls on.
Questions in the Church | 9:44 a.m. April 16, 2009
Where on earth did all of you attend church? Crazy land? I was born and raised
in Utah and found a very open, question-answering culture there. That is what I
loved most about the church, it has an asnwer for everything, a lot of which are
drawn off of logical conclusions. For example: was Jesus married? He set a
perfect example in everything else, and we know he would have been obedient to
all of God's laws, qhich require marraige to attain the highest degree of
the celestial kingdon. So, he had to have been. Does a Heavenly Mother exist?
Obviously she does, because where did children come from?
I still just don't get who you know or what ward you were in that gave you such a negative view on intellectuall conversation in the church. THere is plenty of it. I live outside of Utah and have for 10 years, and if anything, there is less of it outside of Utah. Did you know that statistics show that the more educated someone is the stronger their faith tends to be and the higher chance there is they stay active? But only in the Mormon church.
I still just don't get who you know or what ward you were in that gave you such a negative view on intellectuall conversation in the church. THere is plenty of it. I live outside of Utah and have for 10 years, and if anything, there is less of it outside of Utah. Did you know that statistics show that the more educated someone is the stronger their faith tends to be and the higher chance there is they stay active? But only in the Mormon church.
Scholarly?? | 10:02 a.m. April 16, 2009
The scholarly members end up fealing the heat for being scholarly.
Sept Six
Sept Six
Charles | 10:21 a.m. April 16, 2009
@re: Mike | 9:16 a.m --- the numbers don't show what? What numbers would
you like to see to say that the stone is still rolling?
Somehow I think I'll stick with the words of the prophets and not the words according to you. The gospel is going to more and more nations each year until it is preached in every land. I'd say that's a fantastic stone rolling all over this world.
The numbers are irrelevant because the gospel will never be accepted except by those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.
You need to study your Bible just a little bit more....
Somehow I think I'll stick with the words of the prophets and not the words according to you. The gospel is going to more and more nations each year until it is preached in every land. I'd say that's a fantastic stone rolling all over this world.
The numbers are irrelevant because the gospel will never be accepted except by those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.
You need to study your Bible just a little bit more....
soft skulls | 10:49 a.m. April 16, 2009
ONLY IN UTAH.. What a shame.
Anonymous | 11:05 a.m. April 16, 2009
Being "scholarly" in the Church is very easy. All you have to do is
decide that your scholarship will always reach a pre-established,
"faith-promoting" conclusion!
Simple.
[but not scholarly]
Simple.
[but not scholarly]
where does it state ... | 11:20 a.m. April 16, 2009
in the KJV Bible and the BOM that Jesus was married and that God the Eternal
Father (Jehovah) has a wife? Please show me where the verses are. I am
interested to read them. Thank you and God bless all who posted here. A very
interesting discussion indeed.
To Long Time Member | 11:26 a.m. April 16, 2009
I too am a long time member of the LDS Church and was touched by the honesty of
your remarks. I have studied Church History and read extensively on this
subject both from sources within the Church and from the outside. I was raised
by member parents who were not active in the faith. In studing ancestrial
history I learned that my ancestors lived the history we both have studied.
They knew personnally the prophet Joseph Smith and his family. These ancestors
were good humble folks mostly from the state of Pennsylvania. They joined the
Church early on, some in 1830 and some in 1831. They travel with the Pioneers
and endured their hardships. You aren't mentioned in the D&C or in
Church History books but I have their personal histories. My great-great
grandfather as a boy walked seven miles a day to bring food/supplies to Joseph
Smith when his was in the Richmond jail. Another time Joseph and Hyrum stayed
at the home of my great-great-great grandparents. I have copies of their
journals and have pondered them. I have no doubt that Joseph Smith is a prophet
of God!
Prometheus | 11:33 a.m. April 16, 2009
I find two comments very humorous: 1) That the church will soon disappear - it
hasn't 'disappeared' for almost 200 years with a membership
growing from six original members to over 13 million, and; 2) That if we Mormons
read the 'true' church history we'd find it different from what
we've been taught. Anyone can make up an Anti-Mormon book and call it a
true history. The only way for anyone to know absolute truth is to ask God the
Father. I've done that - and I absolutely know that the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-Day Saints is true.
PS. A lot of the negativity here is recycled sermons from pastors that preach hate instead of 'love thy neighbor.'
PS. A lot of the negativity here is recycled sermons from pastors that preach hate instead of 'love thy neighbor.'
Ernest T. Bass | 11:39 a.m. April 16, 2009
re: Anonymous 11:05
EXACTLY!!!
There is no need for the entire story, only the faith-promoting parts.
EXACTLY!!!
There is no need for the entire story, only the faith-promoting parts.
Another Life-long Member | 11:48 a.m. April 16, 2009
To 11:26 a.m.
You believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God because your ancestors did?
Pardon my saying so, but isn't that simply following "the traditions of your fathers"? Isn't that condemned in the Book of Mormon?
Long Time Member's point is that many people leave the Church for valid reasons, NOT because we "couldn't handle it" or because we were sinners and bad people.
I have ancestors who gave their lives for their testimonies of the Church, too. So what? There are more Islamic Fundamentalists who have family members who gave their lives for Islam than there are active members of the LDS Church! Does that make Islam true? No.
We have prayed and studied and come to a different conclusion than you have done. But your conclusion is based on fallacious (and unrighteous) reasons. Through study, faith, and prayer, I have no doubt that Joseph Smith IS NOT and NEVER WAS a prophet of God.
You believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God because your ancestors did?
Pardon my saying so, but isn't that simply following "the traditions of your fathers"? Isn't that condemned in the Book of Mormon?
Long Time Member's point is that many people leave the Church for valid reasons, NOT because we "couldn't handle it" or because we were sinners and bad people.
I have ancestors who gave their lives for their testimonies of the Church, too. So what? There are more Islamic Fundamentalists who have family members who gave their lives for Islam than there are active members of the LDS Church! Does that make Islam true? No.
We have prayed and studied and come to a different conclusion than you have done. But your conclusion is based on fallacious (and unrighteous) reasons. Through study, faith, and prayer, I have no doubt that Joseph Smith IS NOT and NEVER WAS a prophet of God.
Bill | 12:22 p.m. April 16, 2009
To Another Life-Long Member:
Your judgement of the of the lady is very sacreligious in my opinion. She didn't state that her testimony is based entirely on what her ancestors did. She used those examples as a means of strengthening her testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith.
I'm sixth generation Latter Day Saint, yet that doesn't mean my testimony is based upon my ancestors. My history goes quite deep as it relates to Amanda Barnes Smith. Sure I could cite all about her accomplishments and that of her family but I won't. Why, because my testimony wasn't borne from her fame but from a night in 1984 when I asked sincerely for the truth. I've read the Book of Mormon through and through. I continue to read it and have gained a strong testimony of this marvelous book. I've walked every place where the prophet has walked. I grew up in the KC metro area and around the historical sites. I've stood and knelt in the sacred grove and on the Hill Cumoruah. In every place the Spirt has borne witness that Joseph Smith IS a PROPHET of God.
Your judgement of the of the lady is very sacreligious in my opinion. She didn't state that her testimony is based entirely on what her ancestors did. She used those examples as a means of strengthening her testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith.
I'm sixth generation Latter Day Saint, yet that doesn't mean my testimony is based upon my ancestors. My history goes quite deep as it relates to Amanda Barnes Smith. Sure I could cite all about her accomplishments and that of her family but I won't. Why, because my testimony wasn't borne from her fame but from a night in 1984 when I asked sincerely for the truth. I've read the Book of Mormon through and through. I continue to read it and have gained a strong testimony of this marvelous book. I've walked every place where the prophet has walked. I grew up in the KC metro area and around the historical sites. I've stood and knelt in the sacred grove and on the Hill Cumoruah. In every place the Spirt has borne witness that Joseph Smith IS a PROPHET of God.
Oh, so special-my my | 1:27 p.m. April 16, 2009
I'm an 8 generation LDS, and so who cares? It means absolutely NOTHING
WHATSOEVER! Everyone will be judged by their OWN personal acts upon this earth.
YOUR ancestry is not going to save any of you rather you are related to some
prophet or whatever out there, and it doesn't make you any more special
then anyone else on this earth. I am related, and descend down from many wicked
kings and queens. BIG HAIRY DEAL!!! Their status in history means NOTHING! All I
know is that they were some of the most wicked people on earth because of the
countless people they had murdered even though they are NOW famous. IT DOES NOT
make me feel well being related to any of them. Some people just need to get
over themselves.
LETS BRAG......BUT | 1:56 p.m. April 16, 2009
Who is the so called famous Amanda Barns Smith? I have never heard of this so
called famous person? I am a 7-gen Mormon and her fame is news to me. In which
history books may I find this very famous woman in?
truth | 2:01 p.m. April 16, 2009
I descend down from Joseph Smith's great grandfather, so can I be included
in all the special wonderfuls on here?
To Another Life-long Member | 2:04 p.m. April 16, 2009
Your question: You believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God because your
ancestors did? My answer: Of course not, however, I believe the Church's
version of the history, since, it matches the personal histories of my ancestors
who lived it. Your question: ...isn't that simply following "the
traditions of your fathers?" Answer: As I stated in my first post I was
raised by inactive parents who taught me virtually nothing about the Church. I
gained a testimony of the Church on my own after much study, fasting, faith and
earnest prayer. I know that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God.
My question: Have you ever felt the loving embrace of the Lord, Your Redeemer and Savior, even Jesus Christ? Do you know in all sincerity that He loves you? Have you felt the Savior's eyes see right through you, see all your sins and short comings and still know that He loves you with a love more marvelous and perfect than mortal flesh can comprehend? I know He loves you. Come to Him who loves you.
My question: Have you ever felt the loving embrace of the Lord, Your Redeemer and Savior, even Jesus Christ? Do you know in all sincerity that He loves you? Have you felt the Savior's eyes see right through you, see all your sins and short comings and still know that He loves you with a love more marvelous and perfect than mortal flesh can comprehend? I know He loves you. Come to Him who loves you.
Gotta Jump In | 2:20 p.m. April 16, 2009
To all those who have left the Church:
I'm sorry that many of you feel abused. Most of you describe negative experiences that I have never seen in the Church. If true, that is sad, but that simply means that some people are far from imperfect - in and out of the Church.
I would challenge you to read the Book of Mormon. I have many times and I believe it to be God's word. I know this from the spiritual witness I have received and also from the intellectual research I have performed.
Intellectually we can prove the book of scripture to be what the Church claims it to be. There are enough points that prove this beyond a doubt: such as the statistical analysis on authorship that shows at least 25 distinct authors, the detailed and accurate descriptions of olive tree horticultue, the use of complex Jewish chasmistic poetry, the abundant ancient semitic grammar rules used, and correct use of zif and scheum as untranslated words, etc. etc.
I strongly recommend that you read the book and pray about its contents and then your past feelings will more than likely change.
I'm sorry that many of you feel abused. Most of you describe negative experiences that I have never seen in the Church. If true, that is sad, but that simply means that some people are far from imperfect - in and out of the Church.
I would challenge you to read the Book of Mormon. I have many times and I believe it to be God's word. I know this from the spiritual witness I have received and also from the intellectual research I have performed.
Intellectually we can prove the book of scripture to be what the Church claims it to be. There are enough points that prove this beyond a doubt: such as the statistical analysis on authorship that shows at least 25 distinct authors, the detailed and accurate descriptions of olive tree horticultue, the use of complex Jewish chasmistic poetry, the abundant ancient semitic grammar rules used, and correct use of zif and scheum as untranslated words, etc. etc.
I strongly recommend that you read the book and pray about its contents and then your past feelings will more than likely change.
St. Georgian. | 2:30 p.m. April 16, 2009
It doesn't matter what the statistics say, whether other people or joining
or leaving. It comes down to what YOU do. Somebody cannot decide if a church is
true or false by the statistics. Go find out for YOURSELF. I have a great
testimony, and that is all that matters. I know what I know, because I have
tried full heartedly to see the truth. I am happy to say that I have found it.
I find it in the Book of Mormon, the Bible, D&C, Pearl of Great Price. I
hear it at church, and at General Conference. I live it because it makes perfect
sense, I live it because it makes me happy. Jesus Christ and his church are
perfect (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints). However, it is a
well known fact that God's children are not perfect in there earthly
life's, and it doesn't matter what religion or non-religion they
belong too.
Ernest T. Bass | 2:41 p.m. April 16, 2009
I once thought that "knowing" and "believing" were the same
thing.
Then I realized that 'believing' is NOT 'knowing'. Far too many people 'believe' and incorrectly think that means they 'know'.
There is a huge gap between belief and knowledge.
A person can believe just about anything. Bringing that belief to a knowledge is an impossible task when we're talking about a philosophy.
Then I realized that 'believing' is NOT 'knowing'. Far too many people 'believe' and incorrectly think that means they 'know'.
There is a huge gap between belief and knowledge.
A person can believe just about anything. Bringing that belief to a knowledge is an impossible task when we're talking about a philosophy.
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