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LDS one of nation's largest, fastest growing churches
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To all the haters | 10:12 p.m. April 14, 2009
numbers numbers numbers -- statistics statistics statistics -- who cares. it
means absolutely nothing. You haters out there must having nothing better to do
than sit around waiting for an article like this to be written so that you can
throw around all your negativity. How long did the church that Christ organized
while on this earth last before corruption crept in and destroyed it? How many
people were converted to his church before the wolves came in and took it over
-- probably not that many. Does that make him a false Christ or some kind of
failure. You guys focus on all the wrong things. The church is either true or
its not. If you don't think it is, then fine -- focus your time on what
you believe in instead of throwing stones at an amazing organization that brings
enormous amount of good will and value to the world and to those that belong.
Try being positive, it really does make your life and the world a better place.
MADRYBEG | 10:26 p.m. April 14, 2009
RE: Interesting 1:09pm
Hard to argue the numbers. However, it has been less than 200 years since the organization of the church. Now? Temples are dotting the earth. the more they are built, and the frequency of their building is an indication of the growth.
Hard to argue the numbers. However, it has been less than 200 years since the organization of the church. Now? Temples are dotting the earth. the more they are built, and the frequency of their building is an indication of the growth.
Chris Baddley | 10:28 p.m. April 14, 2009
i joined the LDS church April 16, 2005 at the age of 12. i helped convert my
whole family. our missionaries are constantly baptizing people. this church will
soon fill the whole world.
Comments continue below
MADRYBEG | 10:44 p.m. April 14, 2009
Re: Mr. Bass
You should stick to the Jazz comments. At least there your bigotry means nothing...it is just sports. Religion? It effects all of us, member or not of one organization or the other.
You should stick to the Jazz comments. At least there your bigotry means nothing...it is just sports. Religion? It effects all of us, member or not of one organization or the other.
Parable of sower dead on | 10:51 p.m. April 14, 2009
the naysayers only prove what is already written in the Bible. As for the
California convert who left the church and made NO STATEMENT regarding a
disbelief in the gospel but rather a disdain for the members, well join the
club, why do you think they are going to church, because they are perfect?
Duh:)
So you don't like your fellow sinners? Big freaking deal, call the wambulance.
Duh:)
So you don't like your fellow sinners? Big freaking deal, call the wambulance.
sbc | 11:17 p.m. April 14, 2009
Funny. No one is "quoting" numbers about other faiths. The LDS faith
knows about our numbers so tell me, what are your numbers? Last time I checked,
there are many churches going bankrupt because there are not enough active
members to sustain them. They are also losing pastors because of less and less
people going to school to become a priest or pastor. On the other hand, the LDS
faith is building like we have never built before. Especially temples. Of
course there will be those that are not active but there are those that are.
Those that are offer tremendous strength to the Church. You may never know, but
those that are not active may become active later in live. I personally know
some of these members. They were strong, active members until the end.
Anonymous | 1:48 a.m. April 15, 2009
I served a mission in Japan. In one remote area, where my senior companion
served as the Branch President, there were over 600 listed members. We had
church services in our house. 4 people came each week.
Anonymous | 1:55 a.m. April 15, 2009
Apparently the membership records office for the church is overwhelmed by the
number of resignations they are receiving and processing, spiked by the
church's recent support of prop 8. Many blogs who encourage people to send
in their names so that those resignation numbers remain public, report extremely
slow response time. This necessitates repeated faxes and letters. When phone
calls have been made to this office they have indicated this as well although
they will not comment on the actual numbers.
Must do more | 1:56 a.m. April 15, 2009
Elder Perry is over missionary work and has reminded us of President
Hinckley's challenge to double baptisms. I feel bad that we had a decrease
in 2008. I baptized my fair share before I came home in 2007 but I must not have
taught others how to do it very well.
When I go back to work on Thursday I will work harder to help missionaries to focus on their purpose and teach people not lessons. I need to be better and do more.
For those who criticize, don't! I know my life has been much happier because I make an honest effort to follow Jesus Christ and I hope you will do the same. I'm sorry that you're experience with the church hasn't been as positive as mine but as others have said the church was perfect until Jesus let us join it.
When I go back to work on Thursday I will work harder to help missionaries to focus on their purpose and teach people not lessons. I need to be better and do more.
For those who criticize, don't! I know my life has been much happier because I make an honest effort to follow Jesus Christ and I hope you will do the same. I'm sorry that you're experience with the church hasn't been as positive as mine but as others have said the church was perfect until Jesus let us join it.
Missionary | 5:03 a.m. April 15, 2009
We're here in South America re-activating endowed members who are less
active. I have yet to meet one who says the Church is not true, or that they
don't want to return to the Temple.
The cultural thing is one problem. In the Catholic Church, you're an active member if you attend on Christmas and Easter. Why do only 3 percent of the French population attend church?
Tithing and economic conditions are other issues preventing people from being active. When you are existing on $250 per month and walking miles to church, some of the logistics get in the way of activity.
In earlier years, over-zealous missionaries were baptizing new converts without a bishop's interview or attending church 3 times prior to baptism. Activity rates should improve as missionaries adhere to these rules.
The cultural thing is one problem. In the Catholic Church, you're an active member if you attend on Christmas and Easter. Why do only 3 percent of the French population attend church?
Tithing and economic conditions are other issues preventing people from being active. When you are existing on $250 per month and walking miles to church, some of the logistics get in the way of activity.
In earlier years, over-zealous missionaries were baptizing new converts without a bishop's interview or attending church 3 times prior to baptism. Activity rates should improve as missionaries adhere to these rules.
Anonymous's anonymous | 5:54 a.m. April 15, 2009
At least these forums give people who would otherwise sit at the back of a room
and twidle their thumbs the appearance of speaking up. Hiding behind funny
pseudo names or "anonymous" and submitting comments based more on
emotion and heresay than fact must give one some type of boost to help them make
it through their otherwise depressing daily lives - at least enough of a boost
to make them feel like they are worth something and beneficial to the general
population.
Actually, now I too feel better and feel like I've donated something to mankind. Time to go back to playing second life on the computer now.
Actually, now I too feel better and feel like I've donated something to mankind. Time to go back to playing second life on the computer now.
Carole Knowles | 5:57 a.m. April 15, 2009
I joined the church at the age of 25, eyes wide opened. Twenty-nine years
later, I know that this is the best decision I have ever made. My husband and I
raised eight responsible and contributing children. They know who they are and
act as such. I do agree that when one joins the church for the wrong reason,
they will not last. Unless you know it is true, you will not last.
Zadruga Guy | 6:16 a.m. April 15, 2009
Jennifer, once a person is baptized, they thereafter a member of the Church for
the rest of their lives unless one of two things happens -- they resign their
membership or they are excommunicated. If, after being baptized, they then
become a member of some other faith, they are then members of both the LDS
Church and the other church unless they tell the LDS Church that they no longer
want to be member (resignation), or until the LDS Church tells them that the
Church no longer wants them to be a member (excommunication).
So, basically, Jennifer, there is no point in the LDS Church using information from polls such as such as the one that the Pew Center conducts because people answer them based on what their perception of reality is, instead of what the facts actually are. Except for Church members who have died without the Church knowing about it, the total Church membership released at the April conference is in fact the total membership as of the end of 2008.
So, basically, Jennifer, there is no point in the LDS Church using information from polls such as such as the one that the Pew Center conducts because people answer them based on what their perception of reality is, instead of what the facts actually are. Except for Church members who have died without the Church knowing about it, the total Church membership released at the April conference is in fact the total membership as of the end of 2008.
Church is growing... | 7:55 a.m. April 15, 2009
I've had the unique privilege of being associated with LDS church
construction all around America for the better part of my life (38 years). I
really don't care what anyone's "statistics" say, I know
PERSONALLY that the number of churches being built each year have grown steadily
as well as the temples. I cannot by any logical reason believe this is because
we're losing members. They only approve new buildings in areas when the
CURRENT ATTENDANCE reaches so high. The LDS church WON'T build a building
that isn't necessary . They are only approved for construction if they can
be filled. (Note the words "current" and "attendance"
there.) Just having so many members records won't compel them to build one.
I got into building churches because of the prophesies about the continual
growth of the church in the last days. Looks like I got some job security.....
WOOHOO!!!! =)
Pete in Texas
Pete in Texas
Inflated numbers | 8:17 a.m. April 15, 2009
Half of those are kids who don't even know they are LDS.
A large part are people from 3rd world jungles.
If LDS was such a great thing, everybody would be LDS.
LDS is the Detroit Lions of religions.
Jodi
A large part are people from 3rd world jungles.
If LDS was such a great thing, everybody would be LDS.
LDS is the Detroit Lions of religions.
Jodi
In Jerusalem | 8:19 a.m. April 15, 2009
Bass:
For every book/article that you read that depicts the "truth" about mormon history, you need to read an article on the same subject from LDS FAIR. There's been a lot of Anti-literature that has since been proven wrong, and many members have left the church based on what formerly sounded correct. If you hear something "bad" about Joseph Smith or Brigham Young, double check it with other sources from both sides before you believe it. The Church will try a lot harder to make sure they don't publish false info, but the Anti's won't.
For every book/article that you read that depicts the "truth" about mormon history, you need to read an article on the same subject from LDS FAIR. There's been a lot of Anti-literature that has since been proven wrong, and many members have left the church based on what formerly sounded correct. If you hear something "bad" about Joseph Smith or Brigham Young, double check it with other sources from both sides before you believe it. The Church will try a lot harder to make sure they don't publish false info, but the Anti's won't.
To Gail at 11:00 | 8:28 a.m. April 15, 2009
See? That's why people don't like you.
You are so full of yourselves and your cult.
Mike
You are so full of yourselves and your cult.
Mike
numbers that count | 8:35 a.m. April 15, 2009
I like to review the numbers of stakes, wards, and buildings. The Church
doesn't always announce the numbers of buildings, but when they do, it
always seems to indicate tremendous growth. I recognize that many who are
baptized leave either temporarily or for the rest of their mortal lives, but I
also know that some choose to remain members of record because they believe, but
due to situations at home, peace is best kept by staying away. The Lord looks at
the heart, and I'm comfortable with leaving judgement to him. For those
who choose to live the gospel, we understand the blessings. We've heard all
the same things about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, and we are comfortable
letting the Lord also judge them. But no other person, event, or claim by those
who say they have greater knowledge can remove the event in my life that changed
me forever - and that is when I prayed to know for myself the truth, and in an
undeniable way, I received my answer. Every day of my life, God testifies to me
of this truth. I am grateful for the truth of this principle.
numbers | 8:45 a.m. April 15, 2009
Numbers are numbers. That much is true. Yes, there are many inactive
members.Yes, there are many who are mormom by name only. But, there is sustained
growth in the LDS church. There is growth in attendance as evidenced by the
building of Churches and Temples. You can argue numbers all you want. The church
is growing. This blog is like arguing with a 3 year old or a teenager. They
usually use the same logic.
To Jodi above | 8:55 a.m. April 15, 2009
Perfect analogy! The Lions! LOL!!!
Well done.
Carly
Ex Mo and happiest woman on Earth
Well done.
Carly
Ex Mo and happiest woman on Earth
Sam | 9:14 a.m. April 15, 2009
I came into the church in 1963. My membership and the faith that I have
developed have been a strength and blessing to me for the last 46 years. After
a mission, many callings including gospel doctrine teacher, scouts, Young mens
advisor, and president of the priests quorum, I remain active and currently
teach primary. I love my Savior, I love the gospel, and I am grateful for my
membership in this great church. I am inspired by its teachings, I feel closer
to my Savior when I read and put into practise the principles and teaching of
the scriptures (including the Book of Mormon). I have made a lifetime of study
of the history of the church and have come away with many eye-opening
lessons...However, the fact remains that the spirit verifies this work and
confirms to me that it is of God and the mistaks that are made are mistakes of
man.
re: Interesting | 1:09 p.m. | 9:33 a.m. April 15, 2009
"Interesting stats -"
Yes, I agree, interesting statistics.
but, what is also interesting is that not one of the religions you mentioned, and I suspect those that you didn't include - has a GOD that is DIRECTLY guiding the affairs of his or her religion.
they are all controlled by humans.
When a God decides to make his or her prescence known and this is the religion to follow, then that is the church I'll follow.
Yes, I agree, interesting statistics.
but, what is also interesting is that not one of the religions you mentioned, and I suspect those that you didn't include - has a GOD that is DIRECTLY guiding the affairs of his or her religion.
they are all controlled by humans.
When a God decides to make his or her prescence known and this is the religion to follow, then that is the church I'll follow.
always surprised | 9:48 a.m. April 15, 2009
It is always surprising to me at how negative people are when writing in about
an article about the Mormon church. I guess that means satan is alive and well
in our lives. Lets get over our differences and move on in life. I really
don't think any of this is worth arguing about and our time would be better
spent in living Christ like lives. It really is frightening to me to hear so
many people that have such ridiculous views of Mormons. We are people that are
trying just like any other group of people to be good. And just like everyone
else, mess up and try to do better. We have high standards, but we don't
always reach them. That is no reason to feel that we are rotten people. We are
just trying, and we are not perfect.
Been there - follow-up | 10:15 a.m. April 15, 2009
To clarify: I joined the LDS church for all the wrong reasons: I did not believe
JS was a prophet, I did not believe that men could become gods; I did not
believe there was a need to "restore" a church. I was young &
impressionable. The self-righteous LDS folks in UT were hard to take; they were
the last straw & I began to seriously study the LDS beliefs. The more I
read, the more I know that I did not belong in the LDS church. I returned to my
original church/faith. I do not hate the LDS church or its members. I lost many
Mormon friends when I left the LDS church. The action I took, I did for myself
& I know I did the right thing. Please print my comments.
Re: comment @9:33 | 10:20 a.m. April 15, 2009
WOW!!! You're gonna follow the religion AFTER God comes down and personally
speaks at their General Conference? You're amount of faith astounds me. No
sense in asking Him any earlier on your own though, huh? Yeah.... prayer is
probably overrated. Well, keep your eye on the news channels... I'm sure
they'll report the truth just as soon as it happens. On a side note....are
you familiar with your geneaology? I'd be interested to know if you're
related to anyone from the new testament... name of Thomas? What's that you
say? You "doubt" it?
LOL
LOL
to: always surprised | 10:25 a.m. April 15, 2009
people don't like mormons because they don't live by the tenants of
their own faith. They not only mix religion and politics in Utah, they puree
it. They want to dictate morality to people not of their faith. They
don't follow "Judge not, lest ye be judged". They don't
follow "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". They are
consistently on the wrong side of history for social issues and use manipulated
scripture to justify their bigotry. Just a few reasons for you. Go ahead and
live your lives as you see fit, but please leave the rest of us out of your
delusions.
Typical LDS Man | 10:36 a.m. April 15, 2009
As for me:
-Born to parents members of church
-Baptized at age 8
-Served mission at age 19
-Have my own testimony of Jesus Christ as my savior and redeemer
-Never been less-active
-Pray every day to my Heavenly Father
So, if it worked for me, must have worked for many others, since there are over 50,000 missionaries out for the church!
-Born to parents members of church
-Baptized at age 8
-Served mission at age 19
-Have my own testimony of Jesus Christ as my savior and redeemer
-Never been less-active
-Pray every day to my Heavenly Father
So, if it worked for me, must have worked for many others, since there are over 50,000 missionaries out for the church!
Re: to: always surprised | 10:36 a.m. April 15, 2009
Please...get real. that's a lame thing to say. we are trying. god
didn't give this faith because we are perfect, he did it to help us be
better.
Gradual/Steady growth | 10:44 a.m. April 15, 2009
Don't expect the Church to convert billions. It's happening just as
prophesied of old.
1 Ne. 14: 12
And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were a few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.
1 Ne. 14: 12
And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were a few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.
Anonymous | 10:54 a.m. April 15, 2009
Why do mormons always jump to the bizarre conclusion that whenever someone
disagrees with them it's because "satan is alive and well in our
lives". Then they like to follow it up with a good dose of mormon
swearing: "get real", "get a life" or "get a
clue".
Tim | 11:09 a.m. April 15, 2009
All I know is that we(LDS) are the only truth known to man living today and
it's available to those who choose to humble themselves. More power to the
righteous. We will prevail! We will eventually take over the earth.
Cats | 11:15 a.m. April 15, 2009
To all the haters who feel guilty about the way they live and are trying to
justify it by attacking the Church: Everyone feels sorry for you. Could it be
that your vicious attacks are due to the fact that you are having doubts about
your doubts? Do you actually think you are fooling anyone?
You don't have to be so unhappy, you know. You can find peace. Those who are wise come back. You are welcome and loved by the Lord and by the Church. NO ONE who leaves the Church EVER finds happiness or ever will.
If you want to find true peace and happiness, come back and be healed. No matter what the cost, it is SOOOOO worth it.
You don't have to be so unhappy, you know. You can find peace. Those who are wise come back. You are welcome and loved by the Lord and by the Church. NO ONE who leaves the Church EVER finds happiness or ever will.
If you want to find true peace and happiness, come back and be healed. No matter what the cost, it is SOOOOO worth it.
re:Long time member | 12:41 p.m. | 11:26 a.m. April 15, 2009
Many people who have "looked into the origins of the church" and find
it "didn't happen they way we were led to believe" have chosen
instead to believe the half-truths or distortions told by critics of the church,
defectors from the church, or those with a moral or financial motive to cast
doubt.
It is funny that people think they can look back 180 years and have a clearer view than those who were actually there. Thousands of those who knew Joseph Smith personally, followed him. They weren't duped, they weren't deceived, and they weren't less intelligent than people are today. They built a society, businesses, settled the wilderness - no minor feats.
Many of those people sacrificed their possessions to follow the church from Europe to Ohio, to Missouri, to Nauvoo to Salt Lake, others lost their lives along those routes. They did so because of their deep conviction, earned through earnest seeking for the truth, and furthered by their intimate knowledge of the founders and early leaders.
It is funny that people think they can look back 180 years and have a clearer view than those who were actually there. Thousands of those who knew Joseph Smith personally, followed him. They weren't duped, they weren't deceived, and they weren't less intelligent than people are today. They built a society, businesses, settled the wilderness - no minor feats.
Many of those people sacrificed their possessions to follow the church from Europe to Ohio, to Missouri, to Nauvoo to Salt Lake, others lost their lives along those routes. They did so because of their deep conviction, earned through earnest seeking for the truth, and furthered by their intimate knowledge of the founders and early leaders.
Anonymous | 12:02 p.m. April 15, 2009
The people in the church may not be perfect, but the Church is.
As for any of you that are wondering...
READ THE BOOK OF MORMON!!!!
You WILL find your answers.
As for any of you that are wondering...
READ THE BOOK OF MORMON!!!!
You WILL find your answers.
re:JJ | 12:17 p.m. April 15, 2009
I made the mistake of joining a multi-level marketing company, and decided it
wasn't for me. Since I left it, I don't follow it, don't bad
mouth it, and rarely think about it. I wonder why you and others spend so much
energy on the LDS church?
As to the good things "to advance their empire:" The LDS church organization does many things you never hear about, and the church membership does many more. They aren't PR stunts, they are acts of kindness and charity.
The leadership of the LDS church does not enrich themselves, all local leaders work as volunteers, so this "empire" notion is just you and others projecting motives on others which sheds no light on them but does reveal the way you think.
As to the good things "to advance their empire:" The LDS church organization does many things you never hear about, and the church membership does many more. They aren't PR stunts, they are acts of kindness and charity.
The leadership of the LDS church does not enrich themselves, all local leaders work as volunteers, so this "empire" notion is just you and others projecting motives on others which sheds no light on them but does reveal the way you think.
Obama Republican | 12:50 p.m. April 15, 2009
The church is awesome! Sadly members are not in many cases! (not all)
Regardless of what people claim the retention numbers to be the church is
growing!
How do we know? By what people complain about most "the wealth of the church". If the church was shrinking as some on this board suggest why would they build so many new chapels, temples, colleges, seminaries, farms, ranches etc.etc..... Hello they cost money to run & maintain, obviously the revenue from members is growing not shrinking.
Outside the US people see the church for what it should be, a vehicle to help one change their life, both spiritually & temporally. New members fall under 8020 rule. 20 percent will run with their new faith and contribute, the rest drift away. How do people find that shocking?
Most new members in the US come to church and meet wacko Mormons like many that post on this board.
Wackos that think the world is coming to an end. Wackos who live their lives buying guns to protect their food storage and listening to Rush.
Thank goodness their are great Christians in most wards and stakes, that live what the living prophet teaches.
How do we know? By what people complain about most "the wealth of the church". If the church was shrinking as some on this board suggest why would they build so many new chapels, temples, colleges, seminaries, farms, ranches etc.etc..... Hello they cost money to run & maintain, obviously the revenue from members is growing not shrinking.
Outside the US people see the church for what it should be, a vehicle to help one change their life, both spiritually & temporally. New members fall under 8020 rule. 20 percent will run with their new faith and contribute, the rest drift away. How do people find that shocking?
Most new members in the US come to church and meet wacko Mormons like many that post on this board.
Wackos that think the world is coming to an end. Wackos who live their lives buying guns to protect their food storage and listening to Rush.
Thank goodness their are great Christians in most wards and stakes, that live what the living prophet teaches.
Anonymous | 1:16 p.m. April 15, 2009
To Obama Republican,
The Church IS the people!
If the people are not "true" then neither is the Church.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
The Church IS the people!
If the people are not "true" then neither is the Church.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
Happy To Be LDS | 1:23 p.m. April 15, 2009
To JJ:
There is enough scientific evidence to support the Book of Mormon for what it is claimed to be.
My question to you is - given that it can be proven intellectually, will you read the Book of Mormon and test it for what is says it is?
There is enough scientific evidence to support the Book of Mormon for what it is claimed to be.
My question to you is - given that it can be proven intellectually, will you read the Book of Mormon and test it for what is says it is?
Republican with a brain | 1:24 p.m. April 15, 2009
To- Obama Republican, You sure are an angry hostile, judgmental sort of Mormon.
I hope God has given you the right to say this stuff? I would never join your
church anyway because of people like you and your so called wacko group of LDS
members.
The Deuce | 1:29 p.m. April 15, 2009
I can't say that I know alot about the LDS Faith but I do read reports like
the PEW report as these typically report on trends in society. You have to
understand that they take a cross-section of people to interview. You have to
also understand what your definition of "active" is when it comes to
religion. From what I see and understand from my LDS friends, they are typically
more "active" on a daily and weekly basis compared to my other friends
from other faiths. I can only judge their level of commitment based upon what I
see of their character and how they interact with others. Religion is an
interesting topic to Mormons and ex-Mormons. Both seem to be very fixed and
bashing the other. Is this just a Utah thing or is there something about this
faith that holds people's attention who are on both sides of the fence?
Cats | 1:54 p.m. April 15, 2009
To "Been There-Follow up" I'm so sorry that you lost faith and
courage. The Church is true and that we are lead by prophets. How do I know
this? Because I have received personal revelation that it is the truth.
It is very obvious that neither you not any of the detractors on these blogs are happy with their decisions. They have to keep attacking the Church because if it turns out that the Church really is true, they have made a terrible mistake. So they have to keep attacking to feel better about themselves. No matter how happy they claim to be, NO ONE IS FOOLED.
I promise you that the only way to find real happiness is by accepting the truth and putting our lives in order with the Savior. I have known many people who have been bitter and alienated but have come back to the Church and have found true peace. I am one of them. You can do the same.
Don't throw away the fullness of the truth for something that is less just because it is "easier" to live. There is SO MUCH real happiness to be had.
It is very obvious that neither you not any of the detractors on these blogs are happy with their decisions. They have to keep attacking the Church because if it turns out that the Church really is true, they have made a terrible mistake. So they have to keep attacking to feel better about themselves. No matter how happy they claim to be, NO ONE IS FOOLED.
I promise you that the only way to find real happiness is by accepting the truth and putting our lives in order with the Savior. I have known many people who have been bitter and alienated but have come back to the Church and have found true peace. I am one of them. You can do the same.
Don't throw away the fullness of the truth for something that is less just because it is "easier" to live. There is SO MUCH real happiness to be had.
Obama Republicans | 1:58 p.m. April 15, 2009
I am not hostile nor am I wacko, though many people on this board LDS or NOT
have proven themselves to be so! I am sure you can find plenty of nutty
Baptist, Catholics, Jews etc? When you get a large population together you are
going to have your misfit toys.
My point missed by you Republican with a brain and Anonymous. Is sadly their are many Utah Mormons (thank goodness most Mormons live outside Utah now) Who cling to radical yes Republican ideas! Hawkish ideas that really lead you no where but a bunker in your backyard!
The world is an amazing place and the Church is growing regardless of all the nay Sayers on this board.
My point missed by you Republican with a brain and Anonymous. Is sadly their are many Utah Mormons (thank goodness most Mormons live outside Utah now) Who cling to radical yes Republican ideas! Hawkish ideas that really lead you no where but a bunker in your backyard!
The world is an amazing place and the Church is growing regardless of all the nay Sayers on this board.
Re: anonymous@1:16 | 2:12 p.m. April 15, 2009
You are partially correct in your saying of "by your fruits ye shall know
them" and then blaming it on the religion. That is where I jump in. Are any
of us perfect? Obviously the answer is no. So you are telling me that because of
the imperfections in the LDS individuals life, you're ready to condemn the
church? Dang. That seems kind of brutal. I just bought a Dodge truck that is
having it's share of mechanical problems. Do I cuss the truck? Absolutely.
But does it mean that Dodge is a terrible company? No it is not. (Depending on
the day and the breakdown.) =) I would hope that you wouldn't criticize my
religion because of my own faults. The church is designed to eventually MAKE us
perfect individuals. It doesn't turn us away for being imperfect already
and then tell us to come back when we've achieved perfection to be called a
member. I would hope you can lighten your standards up a little on the
judgements. True, mormons like anyone else, aren't perfect, but that
doesn't necessarily mean the doctrine isn't.
Pete in Texas
Pete in Texas
Charles | 2:30 p.m. April 15, 2009
For those new to posting here, ETBass is a member of the LDS church; at least he
claims he is.
Love your comment TN. I've said that numerous times about Bass's comments....He just doesn't get it.
Love your comment TN. I've said that numerous times about Bass's comments....He just doesn't get it.
1:16 Anonymous Reply | 2:40 p.m. April 15, 2009
Pete,
Your post reflects the typical copout ALL Churches and religions take. "Are any of us perfect?"
Well God IS perfect, and therefore any Church claiming to be HIS Church MUST BE PERFECT. Any PEOPLE claiming to be GOD'S people MUST BE PERFECT. If it is NOT perfect, then it is not God's Church or people. Simple. True. Undeniable.
And, by the way, a defective Dodge truck DOES mean that Dodge, the company, is a terrible company! Try a Japanese model! Far superior.
I absolutely WILL criticize your religion because of your own faults! Stop claiming to be "the only true Church upon the face of the earth with which God is well-pleased" until you can PROVE it and SHOW it by being a group of people who are WORTHY of it!
In the mean time, as you have admitted, LDS people are "no different than other people" - exactly! So stop claiming to be more than that! Your Church and your people are just another religious club. Your "fruits" prove it, and your confession admits it!
Your post reflects the typical copout ALL Churches and religions take. "Are any of us perfect?"
Well God IS perfect, and therefore any Church claiming to be HIS Church MUST BE PERFECT. Any PEOPLE claiming to be GOD'S people MUST BE PERFECT. If it is NOT perfect, then it is not God's Church or people. Simple. True. Undeniable.
And, by the way, a defective Dodge truck DOES mean that Dodge, the company, is a terrible company! Try a Japanese model! Far superior.
I absolutely WILL criticize your religion because of your own faults! Stop claiming to be "the only true Church upon the face of the earth with which God is well-pleased" until you can PROVE it and SHOW it by being a group of people who are WORTHY of it!
In the mean time, as you have admitted, LDS people are "no different than other people" - exactly! So stop claiming to be more than that! Your Church and your people are just another religious club. Your "fruits" prove it, and your confession admits it!
Ernest T. Bass | 2:40 p.m. April 15, 2009
I still maintain that the actual "growth" is near zero when
considering the numbers who go inactive every year and add to that the 80,000 to
90,000 who officially remove their names from the records of the church.
The church counts members as being alive until they hit 108 years old. That right there proves the number is inflated.
The only number that really matters is the number of members paying tithing.
That is truly the bottom line.
The tithe paying members amount to a few million. That's it. 2 or 3 million are actually involved the way the church wants them to be so the other debateable numbers don't really matter.
The growth of the tithe payers is pretty flat/zero.
The church counts members as being alive until they hit 108 years old. That right there proves the number is inflated.
The only number that really matters is the number of members paying tithing.
That is truly the bottom line.
The tithe paying members amount to a few million. That's it. 2 or 3 million are actually involved the way the church wants them to be so the other debateable numbers don't really matter.
The growth of the tithe payers is pretty flat/zero.
Ernest T. Bass | 2:44 p.m. April 15, 2009
re: In Jerusalem.
I research objective facts. The next time FAIR/FARMS does objective research, it will be the first time they've ever done objective research.
Those two organizations reach their conclusions prior to conducting the research. In the real world, that is NOT considered research, it is considered spin and nothing more.
I research objective facts. The next time FAIR/FARMS does objective research, it will be the first time they've ever done objective research.
Those two organizations reach their conclusions prior to conducting the research. In the real world, that is NOT considered research, it is considered spin and nothing more.
Ancestry-Angelgoddess | 2:48 p.m. April 15, 2009
When you live in a world of your own chosing,or was it chosen for us as it is
today.
Let's all try and remember we are all spirits from our Heavenly Father.[G-d].
Jesus said:
Suffer not little children, come unto me, you will see the joys of love as it was unto you before you received your earthly body.
No one had a right to judge our choices.
Only when we return on judgement-day.
Are we better than anyone else thu the eye-heart of heavenly being?
For I am not perfect nor have I ever been.
Love one another, will make another loving world today.
Adam & Eve, she fore take of the seed, making no one perfect.
Have a great loving day.
Let's all try and remember we are all spirits from our Heavenly Father.[G-d].
Jesus said:
Suffer not little children, come unto me, you will see the joys of love as it was unto you before you received your earthly body.
No one had a right to judge our choices.
Only when we return on judgement-day.
Are we better than anyone else thu the eye-heart of heavenly being?
For I am not perfect nor have I ever been.
Love one another, will make another loving world today.
Adam & Eve, she fore take of the seed, making no one perfect.
Have a great loving day.
Ernest T. Bass | 2:49 p.m. April 15, 2009
Considering that only a fraction of 1% of the world's population will ever
hear of the LDS Church, don't you think there would be a more efficient way
of having God speak to all of his children?
Using one mouthpiece horrible efficiency.
The speaker phone works better in group settings than only having one person on the line and relaying the message.
Oh and what message has been relayed lately? Anything new and important? How about a little warning regarding the mess in the Iraq war, or a warning a year ago about the current financial problems. That type of info is more important than anything we've heard in a century.
Using one mouthpiece horrible efficiency.
The speaker phone works better in group settings than only having one person on the line and relaying the message.
Oh and what message has been relayed lately? Anything new and important? How about a little warning regarding the mess in the Iraq war, or a warning a year ago about the current financial problems. That type of info is more important than anything we've heard in a century.
Anonymous | 2:57 p.m. April 15, 2009
Amen, Ernest T. Bass. Amen.
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