Reader comments
Readers' forum: Reasons to be green
22 comments | Read story
Mike | 9:00 a.m. April 14, 2009
Asphyxiating? I don't think so. The air quality now is much better than
even when I was a kid back in the 60's. Kennecott and Geneva Steel were
going full bore then. During the summer, you couldn't even see the Oqurrih
Mountians from Murray the smog was so bad. My Dad has told me that back in the
30's, 40's, and 50's the air pollution was visibly bad,
especially in the winter due to coal being the prime fuel for heating. I
remember sitting in school and looking out the window in 5th grade. I thought
up new lyrics for the old Primary song, "Popcorn Popping on the Apricot
Tree".
Yes, we get our temperature inversions, mainly due to the topography of the area. We get the occasional red burn days.
Yes, we get our temperature inversions, mainly due to the topography of the area. We get the occasional red burn days.
John Redcorn | 9:31 a.m. April 14, 2009
Global warming is a hoax created by Al Gore. Period.
Comments continue below
2 bits | 10:24 a.m. April 14, 2009
In my opinion... if you need somebody like Al Gore to give you a
"Reason" to take care of your planet, you're an idiot. And if
you weren't taking care of your planet BEFORE Al Gore made his hit movie...
Your a fool and no amount of listening to or passing along GW_propaganda is
going to fix that.
We all have our own reasons for being green. We don't need some outside celebrity or government body to force us to do it for THEIR reasons or THEIR way.
The only solution for these large cities you listed with unsustainable populations (like Los Angeles, Beijing, Mexico City, etc) is to reduce the population. And you know that's not going to happen.
It's interesting that the main people who push the GW crisis live in large cities (where the polution problems are worst). But they want the people in rural America to solve the problem for them.
There's no magic pill these HUGE metropolises can take to solve their resource and polution_problems. Even if we had electric cars, etc, there would still be air polution in these cities (hint: Cars aren't the only cause).
We all have our own reasons for being green. We don't need some outside celebrity or government body to force us to do it for THEIR reasons or THEIR way.
The only solution for these large cities you listed with unsustainable populations (like Los Angeles, Beijing, Mexico City, etc) is to reduce the population. And you know that's not going to happen.
It's interesting that the main people who push the GW crisis live in large cities (where the polution problems are worst). But they want the people in rural America to solve the problem for them.
There's no magic pill these HUGE metropolises can take to solve their resource and polution_problems. Even if we had electric cars, etc, there would still be air polution in these cities (hint: Cars aren't the only cause).
Derek Monson | 10:54 a.m. April 14, 2009
I appreciate your letter, Daniel. I agree with you that pursuing renewable
energy sources is a good thing...just like pursuing coal and nuclear energy
sources are good things. With growing demand for energy in this state from a
growing population, we'll need every source we can find. Wind, solar, coal,
nuclear, geothermal, hydro...let's use them all because we'll need
them all.
What we shouldn't do is use the heavy hand of government to limit the use of our primary source of energy, based on a scientific theory that is not playing out as predicted in reality. Doing so will cost thousands of Utahns their livelihoods and will unnecessarily make living more expensive for everyone, both of which will hurt the neediest among us the hardest.
Such actions are irresponsible, wrong-headed, and represent poor public policy.
What we shouldn't do is use the heavy hand of government to limit the use of our primary source of energy, based on a scientific theory that is not playing out as predicted in reality. Doing so will cost thousands of Utahns their livelihoods and will unnecessarily make living more expensive for everyone, both of which will hurt the neediest among us the hardest.
Such actions are irresponsible, wrong-headed, and represent poor public policy.
You | 10:57 a.m. April 14, 2009
Hippee... Jk I agree.
Oh Please | 10:57 a.m. April 14, 2009
D. Monson ("What's Wrong with Toxic Substances?") and the other
industry shills at Sutherland Institute are remarkably adept at calling good
evil and evil good. They won't be satisfied until the sky is brown with NOx
and we're all sucking carbonic acid instead of saliva. Why? Because
Sutherland is funded by Rogers Corporation, a big polluter in Connecticut.
Derek Monson | 11:13 a.m. April 14, 2009
To Kevin @7:23-
I guess this begins my "daily regimen of posturing"...whatever that means. The point you're missing is that if you want to make the air cleaner, there are much better ways to do it than fighting global warming.
For example, for decades we have been reducing air pollution by scrubbing smokestack emissions for particulate air pollution. Consequently, we've seen drastic reductions in air pollution emissions over that same time period.
Certainly we could attack air pollution by attacking carbon dioxide via global warming policies. Unfortunately, we would destroy the jobs and incomes of thousands of Utahns in the process, particularly impacting the poor.
This begs the question of why we should attack carbon dioxide when better methods, with fewer negatives, exist that we can use? In this light, reducing air pollution via global warming policies is irresponsible and nonsensical way to attack air pollution.
At its root, the reason for this outcome is because global warming and air pollution are separate issues, even though they are related. There are ways to deal with them separately, and those are the responsible ways to handle them.
I guess this begins my "daily regimen of posturing"...whatever that means. The point you're missing is that if you want to make the air cleaner, there are much better ways to do it than fighting global warming.
For example, for decades we have been reducing air pollution by scrubbing smokestack emissions for particulate air pollution. Consequently, we've seen drastic reductions in air pollution emissions over that same time period.
Certainly we could attack air pollution by attacking carbon dioxide via global warming policies. Unfortunately, we would destroy the jobs and incomes of thousands of Utahns in the process, particularly impacting the poor.
This begs the question of why we should attack carbon dioxide when better methods, with fewer negatives, exist that we can use? In this light, reducing air pollution via global warming policies is irresponsible and nonsensical way to attack air pollution.
At its root, the reason for this outcome is because global warming and air pollution are separate issues, even though they are related. There are ways to deal with them separately, and those are the responsible ways to handle them.
Hatuletoh | 11:14 a.m. April 14, 2009
To Mike @ 9:00 AM: my grandparents tell the same stories, and I am thankful
things have improved since then. Are you arguing we shouldln't continue to
improve the quality of our environment? I'd like my kids to have a better,
healthier world than the one I grew up in. Don't you?
BH | 12:29 p.m. April 14, 2009
I couldn't agree more with Daniel's arguement.
If you believe in global warming or not, we all need to do more, much, much more, than has been done in the past to reduce pollution, use resources more wisely, and seek means to clean up the damage we have already done.
It is amazing to see and hear comments by so many, justifying continued excess waste of natural resources because of nonbelief in global warming. Such a poor excuse for not being a better steward of our earth.
If you believe in global warming or not, we all need to do more, much, much more, than has been done in the past to reduce pollution, use resources more wisely, and seek means to clean up the damage we have already done.
It is amazing to see and hear comments by so many, justifying continued excess waste of natural resources because of nonbelief in global warming. Such a poor excuse for not being a better steward of our earth.
Kermit | 12:39 p.m. April 14, 2009
It ain't easy being green
Reason | 12:43 p.m. April 14, 2009
Re: Derek Monson: Thanks for your well-reasoned, insightful comments. I agree
with your logic.
RedShirt | 1:11 p.m. April 14, 2009
Where is the nuclear power plant discussion. If we want to eliminate the
pollution associated with power production for large cities, nuclear is the best
way to go.
Rusby | 1:57 p.m. April 14, 2009
A thought about environmental issues:
Maybe there is an unknown hand guiding all this environmental stuff, which is trying to streamline the earth's resources so that the earth's population can continue to grow. It could be similar to the industrial revolution, and the development of all the efficient agricultural methods that have been developed.
I think that it is pretty obvious that people who are GW deniers, do so mainly because they don't agree with the ideology of the proponents of GW.
I for one would think it incredibly ironic if the population control/humanist side of environmentalism led a movement that allowed the earth to support an even larger group of people.
D&C 104:17
Maybe there is an unknown hand guiding all this environmental stuff, which is trying to streamline the earth's resources so that the earth's population can continue to grow. It could be similar to the industrial revolution, and the development of all the efficient agricultural methods that have been developed.
I think that it is pretty obvious that people who are GW deniers, do so mainly because they don't agree with the ideology of the proponents of GW.
I for one would think it incredibly ironic if the population control/humanist side of environmentalism led a movement that allowed the earth to support an even larger group of people.
D&C 104:17
rsp | 2:30 p.m. April 14, 2009
maybe we can all start taking the emission free light rail to downtown SLC and
panhandle. I don't know of any other job I can get in the centrally planned
new world we'll be living in.
Seriously, I respect this writer's point of view. I'm not against clean air. I am against people using scare tactics like global warming to achieve an objective (that may or may not have anything to do with clean air). Follow the money....
Seriously, I respect this writer's point of view. I'm not against clean air. I am against people using scare tactics like global warming to achieve an objective (that may or may not have anything to do with clean air). Follow the money....
David Lynn | 3:55 p.m. April 14, 2009
I do not believe in human caused global warming. Climate change may be happening
but it is a natural occurrence. I am a conservative politically, perhaps closer
to a libertarian, that government it too intrusive. I am not an
environmentalist.
I also own a 7 1/2 year old Toyota Prius and I routinely get 45-50 MPG. I love my car. I didn't buy it to be green but because it is a seriously good piece of technology and efficiency. I have an organic garden and grow a lot of my own food. It is part of a philosophy of being self sufficient, and good stewards of the land and the environment.
None of the political labels so often used here apply to me at all, as I seem to be in both camps at once. The labels and name calling that fills this forum are useless. Do things because they are the right thing to do.
I also own a 7 1/2 year old Toyota Prius and I routinely get 45-50 MPG. I love my car. I didn't buy it to be green but because it is a seriously good piece of technology and efficiency. I have an organic garden and grow a lot of my own food. It is part of a philosophy of being self sufficient, and good stewards of the land and the environment.
None of the political labels so often used here apply to me at all, as I seem to be in both camps at once. The labels and name calling that fills this forum are useless. Do things because they are the right thing to do.
@David Lynn | 4:23 p.m. April 14, 2009
If you really do believe in being a "good steward of the land and the
environment," and act accordingly (as you say you do), that makes you an
environmentalist whether you like the label or not. You sound like a duck, you
walk like a duck...you must be a duck!
To "@David Lynn | 4:23 p.m. " | 5:12 p.m. April 14, 2009
@David Lynn | 4:23 p.m.
By this definition almost everyone is an "environmentalists".
The term "Environmentalist" has gradually come to refer to the more RADICAL environmentalists.
I really think most "normal" people are doing a better job every day on being green. This topic has just boiled down to a bickernig match between the more radical extreme positions.
I think if you look at it objectively... most people are doing better today than they were 10 years ago. It's just that some people won't be happy until everyone is doing it THEIR way, or to THEIR Extremes, or till everyone confesses Al Gore and Michael Moore were right all along.
By this definition almost everyone is an "environmentalists".
The term "Environmentalist" has gradually come to refer to the more RADICAL environmentalists.
I really think most "normal" people are doing a better job every day on being green. This topic has just boiled down to a bickernig match between the more radical extreme positions.
I think if you look at it objectively... most people are doing better today than they were 10 years ago. It's just that some people won't be happy until everyone is doing it THEIR way, or to THEIR Extremes, or till everyone confesses Al Gore and Michael Moore were right all along.
An Observer | 5:24 p.m. April 14, 2009
Actually fossil fuels are a replenishing source, albeit slowly.
NO one is saying we don't have pollution problems that need fixing,
but we can do that without destroying individual liberties, economic freedom, or states rights.
The left wing nuts want solutions that take power from us and give it to them (the state), that confisticate by force our money and our businesses,
They want solutions that are disasterous to our economy, and catastrophic to our country.
Let's use common sense and wisdom, be rational, and not be lemmings follong the liberal left wingnuts off a gobal climate change cliff.
NO one is saying we don't have pollution problems that need fixing,
but we can do that without destroying individual liberties, economic freedom, or states rights.
The left wing nuts want solutions that take power from us and give it to them (the state), that confisticate by force our money and our businesses,
They want solutions that are disasterous to our economy, and catastrophic to our country.
Let's use common sense and wisdom, be rational, and not be lemmings follong the liberal left wingnuts off a gobal climate change cliff.
BH | 9:15 p.m. April 14, 2009
An Observer may want to reconsider if fossil fuels are a replenishing (or
renewable) source of energy.
It seems that to be considered renewable, an energy source would need to be renewable at a rate equal to or greater than the consumption rate. Even the world's consumption of fossil fuels was reduced by 75% in the next couple decades, our consumption will still outpace any estimate of replenishment.
So, to call fossil fuels renewable is really academic, and absolutely not practical. So, as you say, "Let's use common sense and wisdom, be rational".
It seems that to be considered renewable, an energy source would need to be renewable at a rate equal to or greater than the consumption rate. Even the world's consumption of fossil fuels was reduced by 75% in the next couple decades, our consumption will still outpace any estimate of replenishment.
So, to call fossil fuels renewable is really academic, and absolutely not practical. So, as you say, "Let's use common sense and wisdom, be rational".
Kevin | 10:16 a.m. April 15, 2009
@Derek Monson | 11:13 a.m. April 14, 2009
OK. I'll buy that.
OK. I'll buy that.
Just be green! | 1:55 p.m. April 15, 2009
Just be green, and then MAYBE these people will shut up... Not likely.
Even IF we solved the problem of Global Warming they would just find another crisis to complain about and try to tell everyone else they aren't doing it right and they need to do it like them or they are wrong and evil.
Even IF we solved the problem of Global Warming they would just find another crisis to complain about and try to tell everyone else they aren't doing it right and they need to do it like them or they are wrong and evil.
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
- USU names field after Merlin Olsen 7:25 p.m.
- Tide rolls over Gators 7:19 p.m.
- Everyone wins in rival food drive 7:00 p.m.
- BYU basketball: Cougars crush Dons 6:32 p.m.
- Cougars cruise past San Francisco 6:13 p.m.
- Utahns in giving mood 5:35 p.m.
- Kirilenko will not play tonight 5:33 p.m.
- Holiday window-shopping 5:10 p.m.
- Kingsbury books 'Wedding Singer' 5:09 p.m.
- Gems losing out in box office 5:09 p.m.
- Why is Y. ignoring spew of hatred?
302 - BYU says Hall incident resolved247
- Letters: Liberal because LDS245
- 2 citations issued at Y.-U. game189
- Hate not limited to 1 in-state rivalry188
- Aggies shoot past Cougars179
- Y. profs: Beck not all-knowing179
- N.Y. Senate rejects gay marriage128
- Max Hall: a fixture in rivalry lore118
- Unbeaten BYU takes trip to Logan105
First, a big thank you to all who posted questions here for me to ask...
Latest comments
Love Kurt's music, especially Prayer of the Children! I enjoyed seeing him...
CougarKeith | 2:14 a.m. Dec. 5, 2009 Your comment seems to me to work for...
Unless you actually listened to these professors speeches you are attacking...
Why anybody would rather shout than discuss is beyond my comprehension. Must...
As a USC grad-school grad, I am depressed. As a BYU grad, I feel pretty...
Even if Nebraska does get Texas tonight, TCU will not get to play my beloved...
Look at the Kyoto and more recent proposals -- they have almost nothing to do...
I suggest they have their next meeting in Houston.
Can't wait!
Driven by any coal-fired plant lately? Seen any pollution? With demand...
Advertisements
Since uncertainty may exist regarding the causality of global warming, the proponents of this theory should just sell the idea of just cleaning up the air.