Deseret News | LDS observe Jewish Passover

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LDS observe Jewish Passover

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Gordon H | 6:12 p.m. April 11, 2009

Catholics learn about our Savior Christ from the Mormons.

hey mormons | 6:33 p.m. April 11, 2009

learn about christ from us holy rollers come to K2!!

Warren Kay | 6:38 p.m. April 11, 2009

Indeed we are all sons and daughters of Abraham....

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 6:43 p.m. April 11, 2009

Yarmalkas ---------------Perhaps the Mormon Rabbi got his tallis caught in a yarmulka. Shalom alachem.

S Ahiwlsa | 6:59 p.m. April 11, 2009

I've attended several Seder services at BYU and enjoyed the learning and the experience very much. I've also enjoyed services at K2!

This area benefits from a great diversity of wonderful people.

A. Nony Mouse | 7:45 p.m. April 11, 2009

If this is the "seder" I've heard about, considering that none of the foods used were kosher for Passover, that the story of Passover and the Exodus from Egypt were warped into self-fulfilling Mormon prophecy, then I'd say the people didn't truly experience a seder. Carrot cake, for instance, is NOT kosher for Passover. How do I know this? By having participated in seders since I can remember, which is over 50 years.

One of the joys of my life | 11:47 p.m. April 11, 2009

was to participate in a Passover Seder (and I, too, am LDS). It was a very sacred experience for me and I certainly meant nothing but respect to God and to my Jewish friends and acquaintances by attending the celebration of a holy day that has been reverently celebrated for thousands of years.

Anyone whose religion is grounded in any way in the Old Testament and/or the New Testament shares in that religious heritage. Surely, and respectfully, the meaning of the day is broad enough for all of us.

zulu | 12:51 a.m. April 12, 2009

"learn about the Jewish Passover and its rich symbolism from an LDS perspective," -- Well intentioned, but how about dropping the "LDS perspective" -- LDS want to appropriate everything from Egypt to Israel and Baptists...

kind of pathetic

haha | 12:53 a.m. April 12, 2009

What prophecy that happens can't be considered a "self-fulfilling prophecy"?

Cats | 6:07 a.m. April 12, 2009

Zulu: It is so sad to see people who just have to spend their lives trying to find ways to be nasty. I hope you'll find some happiness someday and don't have to keep this up.

Christ in the passover | 9:01 a.m. April 12, 2009

I have been to several Passover Seders,but the most enriching one ,was when I went to the one held by Jews for Jesus, it all pointed to(Yeshua) the Messiah,they said there are thousands of completed Jews today,maybe as many as in Jesus day,those who beleive Jesus(Yeshua) is the Messiah.

Arie Noot Jr | 9:24 a.m. April 12, 2009

I was there and what a celebration it was! The song and music was certainly an highlight and there were a lot of smiles and happiness. All surely enjoyed it. It seems that there was a large wating list and there were many who were not able to get tickets. It seems that they are going to have one in SLC next year as well so that all can celebrate.

theologian | 1:32 p.m. April 12, 2009

After 70 years of study of Joseph Smith I have had to conclude that much of his theology came from both Jews and Muslims, so carry on LDS.

Phoebe | 1:49 p.m. April 12, 2009

What a heartwarming way to reach across the religious divide! Kudos to those who arranged this event and to those who attended.

Nothing new | 2:04 p.m. April 12, 2009

My children "observed" the Seder every year in Seminary....here in the East....and they loved every minute of it.

Participant at Passover | 2:42 p.m. April 12, 2009

Having attended the "Passover for Joseph and Judah" and experienced as much feeling and emotion for this key biblical event as I have at the purely Jewish Passover Seders I have attended, I am appalled at the unhappy souls who make disparaging comments about an event they were not even at so as to know what they are talking about--as if they alone are the arbiters of what passes as Jewish or biblical.

Sorry, but there was no "Mormon rabbi," no "self-fulfilling Mormon prophecy" or "carrot cake," etc. I applaud the gentle souls who have made positive comments. The world is a better place because of you.

Chutzpa | 4:59 p.m. April 12, 2009

Mormons are pathetic in their attempts to be accepted by other religions and be seen as legitimate. What's next, a story about Mormonism and the Quran? Funny how they superficially embrace judaism now and shun the FLDS. Reminds me of a junior high school girl who is attempting to become popular and join the "in crowd."

Chris in Texas | 7:17 p.m. April 12, 2009

I read two or three of you critics on here use the word "pathetic" to describe this event. No, you are wrong. What is pathetic is your hatred and intolerance toward the Mormons. There is nothing wrong with a group of people wanting to bridge the gap between themselves and another group and better their understanding of another culture. As far as your criticism of them doing it "from an LDS perspective" goes, there is nothing wrong with that all - since everything any human being does is filtered or clouded by his/her own perspective. The key is to make the attempt - to take the first step. I applaud them for doing so.

Chaplain vs. Chutzpa | 7:24 p.m. April 12, 2009

Chutzpa, in answer to your question - as an LDS chaplain serving in Iraq in 2007, I indeed led a four-month weekly study on the Koran - along with the Iraqi Army's first chaplain. We had 30 students attend the class and all came away with a better understanding of the Iraqi people who are mostly Muslim through a thorough reading of their holy book. The article here is about understanding, something you seem to be intolerantly low on. By the way, I hope you eat only one kind of food, speak only your language, and attend only your church. I'd hate to see you stretch and strain yourself. Wouldn't want you to fall out of favor with your crowd.

Jon | 11:21 p.m. April 12, 2009

This observant Jew welcomes other faiths who want to learn about Jewish traditions. It doesn't always have to end in conversion. Sometimes just the intellectual discovery is the reward in itself. We are all images of G-d. When we are peaceful to each other, we redeem Creation. Happy Easter to you all.

Canuck Observer | 8:02 a.m. April 13, 2009

Chaplain and Jon: You are so right. It is all about understanding. What a better world this would be if people learned about each other and their cultures, beliefs and customs. So many people haven't a clue what their neighbours are about and judge them solely on their ethnic background or colour of their skin. Enjoy the journey.

Alan Smythe | 10:01 a.m. April 13, 2009

Did they come to a resolution on how Jews can be considered gentiles in Utah?

wrlutzow | 10:07 a.m. April 13, 2009

Sorry about posting the URL.

Checkout the webpage for the Freilachmakers.

TorahTrue Jews | 3:03 p.m. April 13, 2009

drink real wine in the passover,as well as (Yeshua)Jesus,afterall he turned water into wine, not wine into water. I cannot imagine Mormons telling Golda Meair or Netanyahu,they were not the true Jews or even Woodie Allen. kinda funny

Anonymous | 3:04 p.m. April 13, 2009

How would Mormons feel if Born Again Christians gathered to reenact the Mormon Temple ceremony "from a Baptist perspective"?

Would you think that was cool? Would you think it was done with "respect"?

You are the biggest bunch of hypocrites on the planet!

kenny | 3:23 p.m. April 13, 2009

As the ordiances and covenants found in the LDS church spread across the world then people of what is now many other faiths will embrace them,live under them and abide by them.Temples will be built where never thought possible in my life time and we as a world people will unite under this covenant and accept Christ as our Savior.Mormon doctrine is not just for mormons as they appear currently.We must accept people of all faiths as we carry this gospel to the four corners of the world otherwise it will be taken away from us and we know that will not happen.There are many who still see this as a Utah church of anglo/saxon. Its not.

to Anon. | 3:39 p.m. April 13, 2009

Hypocrites? It is nice to see you have the high road view. The analogy is a faulty one, grow up.

nathan | 4:05 p.m. April 13, 2009

In the New Testament, Christianity was regarded as a "sect of the Jews" - in other words, a Jewish religion. And the apostles kept the Jewish traditions as Christians. Therefor, there is nothing inherently foreign for Latter-day Saint Christians to do the same. If there is hypocracy, it is only in those who pretend otherwise.

RE: Kenny ,One reason why | 4:11 p.m. April 13, 2009

Moses 7:22 ...the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them. Moses 7:8....and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan,that they were were depised among all people. and of course, some of my older Mormon friends favorite"White and Delightsome" I hope I am not censored for sharing the BOM.

JW | 4:16 p.m. April 13, 2009

To Anon. You use that word all the time. I don't think you even know what it means! Look it up and you will find that the Mormons are far from it. You like to throw words around just because your parents probably used them. Broaden your vocabulary.

Anonymous | 4:19 p.m. April 13, 2009

To all non-Jews who dishonor our traditions and ceremonies, I say "Gut zol oyf im onshikn fin di tsen makes di beste" (God should visit upon him the best of the Ten Plagues) and "Er zol hobn paroys makes bashotn mit oybes krets" (He should have Pharaohs plagues sprinkled with Jobs scabies).

To Anonymous | 3:04 | 4:19 p.m. April 13, 2009

Just for the record, Pesach (Passover) is for all people. "The message of Passover is that no one is free until all people are free." Rabbi Micah Greenstein.

Quoting the American Jewish World Service's "Passover for All" intitiative:

"Fulfilling the promise of Passover for all people requires that we protect the stranger, particularly those strangers in our midst. Next year, may we all be free."

I suspect you qualify as strange, so, consider yourself protected. And I suppose that'll be you reenacting the temple ceremony at the next General Conference, huh?

Here's hoping you can free yourself from the self-hatred that makes you strike out at anything kind or decent, so, "Next year, may we all be free."

matt | 5:41 p.m. April 13, 2009

Nice, very charitable.

Anonymous | 6:17 p.m. April 13, 2009

matt,

If LDS people have ANY understanding of charitable behavior, they will cease and desist immediately from mocking our sacred religious ceremonies!

Anonymous | 6:18 p.m. April 13, 2009

For a non-Jew to PERFORM a Seder is extremely offensive. You Mormons do not have the authority or permission just as we do not have the authority and permission to perform your Temple ceremonies.

It is NOT a way of understanding; it is a way of MISunderstanding because you completely distort the meaning of the Seder and the Passover. You do NOT understand our history. You do NOT have the right to do this! It is extremely offensive.

First you baptize our deceased ancestors in your temples, now this. When will you cease your arrogant, syncretic appropriation of all other religions? When will you stop being so arrogant and thinking you have the right to do these things? Why can't you leave others alone and allow them the privilege of worshipping in their own way without you twisting and distorting everything to match your own views?

This is OUR tradition, not yours! This is OUR ritual and ceremony, NOT YOURS! This is OUR faith, NOT YOURS!

Leave us alone!

Robert Kohen | 7:00 p.m. April 13, 2009

To all the "Anonymous" comments

I am a Jew and was one of the people who helped to coordinate this event. We have a very healthy and growing Jewish community here in Utah. Many from our community attended this Seder in an attempt to reach out to the LDS community to help them experience the richness of our Jewish culture and beliefs.

As I helped to put the Seder together, I find it interesting that you are so offended at reaching out to others to help them begin to understand and appreciate the holy days. It also enabled both LDS and the Jewish community here in Utah begin to understand one another. There are differences that must be respected, but it would be foolish and arrogant to not share those things we do have in common.

Since you were not there and do not know the nature of the Seder we performed you really have no foundation upon which to render any valid judgement. Condemnation before investigation does nothing but lead the world into darkness.

Shalom

Thank you Robert Kohen | 9:58 p.m. April 13, 2009

Thank you for your kind words. There are a few that visit this website each evening in an effort to tear down the Mormon church. "Anonymous" spews his hate each evening. It is largely the same person that I have come to know through writing style. It is hard to imagine such bittnerness still exists in this world.

Deb | 7:26 a.m. April 14, 2009

Thank you Robert Kohen for your wonderful perspective. I also live in a university town in the east. Our Campus Ministry Assoc sponsors a Passover Seder each year coordinated by the local Rabbi and his cogregation. They are excited to share this spiritual occasion with the community and we love them for it. It has opened up better understanding between different beliefs and makes me more comfortable to ask questions.

Anonymous | 9:20 a.m. April 14, 2009

To Robert Kohen,

A Jew who has converted to another religion is no more a Jew than Barack Obama is a Muslim!

Jews for Jesus, Messianic Jews, and other groups have officially lost the right of return to Israel.

I have attended these Mormon Seders and they are a complete distortion and mockery! They need to stop.

Ben | 9:22 a.m. April 14, 2009

Would Mormons like it if Ex-Mormons for Jesus sponsored an event like this? "In an attempt to reach out to the LDS community to help them experience the richness of the Baptist culture and beliefs?"

Would you like for Ex Mormons for Jesus to portray your Temple ceremonies, and then reinterpret them all in the name of "reaching out to others to help them begin to understand and appreciate the holy days?"

Do you think that such an event would help both LDS and the Baptist communities here in Utah begin to understand one another?"

This is disrespectful of the Jewish faith.

Anonymous | 9:51 a.m. April 14, 2009

The Jewish religion does not embrace the idea of Jesus Christ as Christian do. If they do , then the are not Jewish, period.

The truly celebrate , they should have stayed with true tradition. why try to accomodate another religion in your own when you are trying to show who you are. I do not understand "not kosher" being observed. Carrot cake?

How can you understand the traditions of the Jewish people/religion, if you dilute them into other faiths..I do not believe it served any purpose except disrespect for the Jewish community to not hold to Jewish tradition. Call it what you will...

Beauty of religion is showing the religion as it is.. not what "you" want to make it to "fit in"...

Bill | 3:59 p.m. April 14, 2009

Mr Kohen at no place stated he was a Jew for Jesus or any of the other so called groups. He states he is a Jew pure and simple. Since he has stated that he helped to put this Seder together and has asked all those to understand it that way as a means of reaching out to the LDS Church to gain an understanding between the two religions.

I find it odd that others are totally disputing what he said and putting words into his mouth to discredit him. What a total waste of a person's time and shows the hate, hypocricy of the individual themselves. To those who say this must be stopped. Why?

It appears to have brought a better understanding between us and those of the Jewish faith. Is it that you fail to see that much of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is one of few Christian religions that refer to the Old Testament and the rites practiced there that we may actually be true? Is that you are so full of hate that you fail to see the good in this? Really look deep into your own hearts.

Anonymous /Shalom | 5:43 p.m. April 14, 2009

My mother and father were both Jewish and lived in Germany during WW,my mother was able to get out of Gemany as well as my father,but his brother stayed and was hung by the SS for smuggling people (Jews)into Holland,he was a Jewish Lutheran Pastor,My parents became followers of Yeshua,I became a Christian myself.
Shalom

John Pack Lambert | 8:01 p.m. April 14, 2009

To Bill,
I think the reason for the hateful reaction is that people reflect their own tendencies on others. If these people had ever participated in any form of religious ceremony, it would be to mock it.
They have no reverence for God or any attempt to try and better understand how he has blessed his children, so they assume that all other people go around with the same total irreverance at least when they deal with the beliefs of other religions.
Respect and reverence are so far from their minds and hearts, that they always assume irreverent and destructive intentions on the part of others.

Anonymous | 1:13 p.m. April 15, 2009

A Jew who has converted to Mormonism is no longer a Jew. Pure and simple.

Ted | 1:14 p.m. April 15, 2009

John Pack Lambert,

Yours has got to be one of the most arrogant and ignorant posts I have ever read.

Shame on you.

Tal | 2:31 p.m. April 15, 2009

Bill,

Mr Kohen is a FORMER Jew. He is LDS. He converted FROM being a Jew TO being a Mormon. That is no different than "Jews for Jesus" or "Messianic Jews". Such "converts" are no longer Jews. These people mock Seders and violate the sacredness of their FORMER faiths "a means of reaching out to the LDS Church to gain an understanding between the two religions." But that is a deceptive cover for evangelizing people of their former faith, just as Ex-Mormons for Jesus evangelize Mormons, and just as Mormons (who are ex-Methodists, Catholics, etc.) go around trying to recruit others from their former faith.

"It appears to have brought a better understanding between us and those of the Jewish faith."

Where were any REAL Jews in attendance? Have you or any of these LDS "scholars" contacted the National Council of Synagogues to ask how they feel about Mormons performing Seders? There is NO "understanding" being created, only MIS-understanding as Mormons twist the meanings, distort the stories, and warp the symbols to mean things that they do not and have NEVER meant in the Seder or Passover! It is MISREPRESENTATION, not understanding!

LDS in CA | 11:13 a.m. April 16, 2009

As a life-long Latter-day Saint, I want to be sensitive to the perceptions Jews may have. But their perceptions notwithstanding, I am offended by my fellow LDS performing these Jewish ceremonies.

From a Christian perspective, the Passover (and the Seder) pointed symbolically to Christ. I can understand how Jews would be offended when LDS reinterpret these ceremonies like that. Paul tells us clearly that we need no longer celebrate the Passover because Christ came and fulfilled it! Paul says those who perform or participate in the Passover are acting as if Christ did not come at all! That is anti-Christian! Why would a Latter-day Saint want to do something that is so anti-Christian? I think this LDS Passover Seder thing is naive, misguided, and a very inappropriate novelty among some ignorant members of the Church.

Peace..... | 9:54 a.m. April 21, 2009

be unto all of you.

A resident at Scenicview Academy | 2:20 p.m. April 24, 2009

The Jewish ceremonies happened on the campus where I live now, and it looked like a very nice ceremony. As a resident of Scenicview Academy, I was not allowed to go to the ceremony itself, but I heard many good things about it. That's what our society needs, is things like that.

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