Deseret News | Reader comments: Economy dents home schooling

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Economy dents home schooling

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Slag0500 | 8:56 p.m. March 23, 2009

This is a tragedy for home schooling families and for the community as a whole. Indeed, home schooling and private schooling are the only legitimate sources of education. It is a shame that many of these families will now fall back into the public education system, which is in a state of chaos. The government has created this public education mess by interfering with this very private area of family life.

Public Schools | 12:15 a.m. March 24, 2009

Slag0500 you are proof public schools are failing. You must have gone to one.

Mom | 1:02 a.m. March 24, 2009

The homeschooling community is very resilient, many of us have always worked from home to begin with. Every cloud has a silver lining, perhaps this will also encourage others to start their own businesses and work from home too.

Comments continue below

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To each his own... | 6:06 a.m. March 24, 2009

Every parent has to decide what is right or wrong for their own child. To argue which type of schooling is best for children is fruitless. I've seen extreme failures in both public and home schools. I'm glad we live in a country where we can each decide for ourselves and then reap the consequences. To tell me home schooling is better for my children than public is controlling and arrogant. For me to tell you that public is better for your children is the same. We all have different personalities and preferences.

Reality now or later... | 6:43 a.m. March 24, 2009

In my sad experience observing homeschooled children and their parents, I find that the problem isn't the child as much as the parents. I've seen many a homeschool parent who doesn't trust their neighbors, and doesn't know how to cope with living in a civilization--they still fashion themselves as frontier dwellers and despise authority of any form. Which is why as soon as the kids can, they are outta the house and gone forever drinking in every noxious societal issue that can be experimented with... But hey, it's a free country, so whatever floats your boat.

Learning? | 6:48 a.m. March 24, 2009

But are students learning at home? What social skills do they have?

Sure there are good home schoolers, but those I know are not. We are creating a generation of kids who will not be able to function in the world outside their home with little education and little access to higher ed.

Public schools are not in chaos, they do very well, even with dysfunctional students. They are accountable, their student achievement is public information.

Parents can keep kids at home to work and support the family with no requirement to teach or learn. I pity many of these students.

3 yr old wage earners | 7:10 a.m. March 24, 2009

This article made the homeschooled kids sound like they were being exploited for financial gain. Kinda creepy, if you ask me.

lighter moment | 7:10 a.m. March 24, 2009

For some reason, Kristie Carlsons "solution" put a BIG grin on my face this morning.

Anonymous | 7:20 a.m. March 24, 2009

Uh, requirements? Have you checked out homeschooling laws lately? In my state homeschoolers are held to a much higher degree of accountability than public schools. Oh yes, and 90% of them go on to higher education - hardly "little access." I'm one of them. I had to "settle" for a Master's from BYU.

"Reality" had one thing right. It's the parents. Poor parenting will affect a child whether they go to public, private, or home school. (Don't try to tell me you've never seen a public school kid have serious trouble because of poor parenting). It's just that when a homeschooled kid has trouble, we link the poor parenting to the homeschooling, when really, poor parenting is a separate issue affecting kids all over the educational spectrum.

Reality probably knows lots of good homeschoolers. He/she just doesn't realize they're homeschoolers because the bad ones stick out and get held up as an example.

to "Learning" | 7:45 a.m. March 24, 2009

Social skills, or lack thereof,of homeschooled children, has been the rallying call for public education for years. In my experience there are children public and home-schooled who are well-adjusted socially. There are AT LEAST equal numbers of anti-social children in the public schools...go substitute at a jr. high school. It will take you 5 seconds to figure out which are the anti-social children.

to "Learning": | 8:12 a.m. March 24, 2009

What social skills do they have?

Well, probably not the social skills that are prevalent in public schools, and you know which ones Im talking about. The homeschooled kids I have met were always socially capable, and usually more so than public school kids. They just dont know how to use the same type of vulgar, crass language and inhumane treatment of others.

Anonymous | 8:18 a.m. March 24, 2009

When is the last time someone asked a home schooler, "but what about their education"? That's what we should be asking those in the public schools. Get over the "social skills" issue...it's yesterday's news.

Deb | 8:26 a.m. March 24, 2009

It is so about parental rights to choose as long as they are working within the guidelines of the state and are realistic about their ability to teach. I have seen wonderful socialized children come out of homeschooling and others who are withdrawn and educationally behind. Being a part of a homeschooling network is a great support if used effectively. Being arrogant and saying "I can do it all" even though the parent doesn't have an education is sad. Public schools also have their ups and downs. Again, parental involvement is a key.

To: Anonymous 7:20 am | 8:27 a.m. March 24, 2009

I don't know what state you claim to live in, but here in Utah our Home School laws have been loosened in the last 5 years. It used to be that the children had to pass the same end of year tests that the public school children did and that the test results had to be reported to the state. Now, a parent just has to fill out a form to say that her children are at or above grade level for their age.

However you get there... | 8:34 a.m. March 24, 2009

I'm sure you've seen the bumper sticker "Education is a journey not a destination". Whether a child is educated in public schools or at home the difference is the parent's attitudes towards LEARNING. If a parent is close-minded, overly restrictive, suspicious and has a lack of curiosity about our incredible world - the kids suffer. It doesn't matter whether those kids are sent to school or home-schooled. The lack of inquisitiveness and joy in the world in their parents will translate to these kids. Someone also said kids will get into every "noxious societal issue" and, yes, that can be a result of some of them too. Home-schooled kids by parents with positive, open minds do very well and do achieve very high academic goals. Don't sell them short. Bottom line: it's all about the parenting.

Another broken system | 8:44 a.m. March 24, 2009

Socialization = name of the Public School Game.
My children are home schooled and know how to be social with children of all ages as well as adults. I almost always receive compliments on how well they are all behaved and how bright they are, and yet people are still worried that the home school child will not find into the mold that public school children conform to. For me, Individualism is the way to go.

home school educator | 8:52 a.m. March 24, 2009

Having taught in public school and college for years before having children, I assumed I'd send my children to school. As my children grew, I recognized needs my children had that couldn't be met in public schools. What started as a temporary solution has become a life long choice. My youngest will be entering BYU next year.
What I've learned:
*All children do better when they are loved and cared for by interested parents.
*The more choices available to parents the better our community will be.
*The best homeschooling takes place when we take our children TO something rather than FROM something. *There is no "one-right-answer" for all families. *Socially, the teen years are a struggle for all children, not just home-schoolers.

It's been interesting to watch people who don't know our educational preference. I am often asked what I did to make my children so polite and amiable. One older couple on a trip to our state asked if they could "adopt" my children for grandchildren. It's true homeschoolkids don't dress like others or talk like others, but diversity enriches our community; it doesn't weaken it.

No one is adequate | 8:52 a.m. March 24, 2009

I strongly feel that no parent is qualified to home school their children for one simple reason--they represent only their own world view. Of course many are qualified to teach reading, math, science, and art, but the bias (which we all have) always comes from one side--yours. In life we all have to deal with bosses, university professors, or customers (if self-employed) that are arrogant and we still have to deal with that. Having teachers that rub your kid a little against the grain is a good thing. I know I certainly don't feel capable of home schooling our kids (and I have two Master's degrees and am working on a PhD)

Hope | 8:57 a.m. March 24, 2009

What is the difference between children who take some time to go earn some extra income cleaning somewhere and others who work in the lunchroom? IN my opinion, both are learning great skills one is just earning a little extra money because his parents do it alongside them. As the economy gets a bit tougher, both parents and children will need to work as a team. Some parents will have to make big sacrifices to meet all the demands of them. I am encouraged by the homeschoolers around me. Many have taken life by its throat and simplified enough to fit in the important stuff. It is interesting to see how they are trying to become self reliant and learning so many lost skills. I see very intelligent children who are not only book learned. They are learning skills to be responsible adults. Whether we are public, private or home schoolers, being able to work as a team to overcome life's struggles will only strengthen our families and give us the peace we so need amid these difficult times. I hope we can create a support system that works for us just as the homeschoolers have created.

Economy is denting Public School | 9:13 a.m. March 24, 2009

What about the cancellation of all field trips in the Alpine School District except those like Space Center or Science Camp sponsored by the district? What about the hiring freeze and the supply budget issues? The public school is also having to take on adjustments. Fortunately those who have simplified to what is important will have less of an adjustment.

just me | 9:18 a.m. March 24, 2009

I have kids in both homeschool and public school. All my kids are just fine socially and academically. They go on dates, work, and church. It isnt what education they get its what they and thier parents make of it. Sorry but most problems kids have they would have regardless of where they learned. The big difference with homeschool is GENERALLY the parents are very connected to the kids THUS the kids get more time with parents. All the same characteristics that child has will still be there. You can just tailor it more individually when you present curriculum in a homeschool environment. Teaachers are restricted by time, resources and availability among 25 kids. There are awful homechool teacher/parents and teachers. This is called life. I do oppose the stereotypes people have on both sides of the fence this is negative and rather mean-spirited.

Shaun McC | 9:23 a.m. March 24, 2009

In the thirty years since my wife began home-schooling our children (while I taught in the public schools), we have seen a great change in the type of people who home-school. It is very seldom that you now see "isolationist" home schoolers like John Singer. Most now work with other home-school parents in co-ops or commonwealth schools. The children are usually very social but less peer dependent and more adult in their thinking and social styles. Most of the children go on to college or technical schools and are successful. I also see the children in public school succeed whose parents are involved, either at the school or with the children at home, working with them on their assignments and knowing what they are doing. Sadly those are in the minority and the kids without that parental involvement are by and large not doing as well either socially or intellectually.

Matthew | 9:29 a.m. March 24, 2009

It is so funny to read non-homeschooler's perceptions of homeschooling. If done even remotely right, a homeschool education is going to be better. But it does take a lot of time, money, and effort. There is no tax break and some days I do wonder if it is worth it. On the other hand, so many of our friends desperately search for a private or charter school solution to avoid the abysmal middle school that serves our neighborhood. But they won't consider homeschooling because of the social stigma attached to it.
Public School is an essential service to those in society that need it, for whatever reason. Just dont try and stereotype homeschoolers, you will just come off looking much more ignorant than you try to portrait homeschoolers as being.
As to socializing, when else in ones life does one spend all day interacting only with people ones own age? The answer is never! Homeschool kids definitely tend to be more socially versatile.

San Diego | 10:18 a.m. March 24, 2009

I recently gave in to my wife's desires to do home school. I have been getting to know many other home school families, and for the most part, they all come across as arrogant and elitist (and rather strange).

One home school mom pretty much confirmed this when she told me, "Well, other families attend public schools because they don't know any better."

The result is that my local public school is deprived of kids who could be there setting a good example, of parents that could be contributing to the teacher-student-parent community. Good families can have a leavening effect on their peers, and be doing missionary work in the process. Instead, they remain cloistered around the kitchen table as if it were a monastery, refusing to let their lights shine to the world.

Anonymous | 10:23 a.m. March 24, 2009

Poor kids. They are chattel in their parent's war with reality. You have parents forcing their bias views of what should be taught on kids who will enter a world that their parents didn't design.

This would be another source of conservative humor if kids were going to pay the price. In education, its hard to learn more than your teacher knows. Your teachers bias filter what you learn. At least, being taught in a real school, you change teachers giving you balance. You can elect to take courses with greater specificity or difficulty.

If mommy doesn't do calculus you won't.

JP | 10:27 a.m. March 24, 2009

If these women want to suffer and teach their own children--go for it. Save the rest of us taxpayers money. But frankly, I think they are crazy, and have witnessed a few too many strange results of "home schooling" to ever be comfortable with it or its results.

Society is competitive, society forces inclusion. Ability to deal with that competitiveness and the pressures involved is a needed skill. If I was hiring someone for my business and they lacked those skills, I wouldn't hire them.

Hopefully, these Mom's pool their efforts and work to create environments where their kids do get some socialization time.

Reformed Utahn | 10:47 a.m. March 24, 2009

If you're raising your kid to enter the Y and live in a bubble, home schooling is perfect. If instead you want your child to live in the real world, get them a real education.

Ogden UT | 10:56 a.m. March 24, 2009

I volunteer to translate what "Anonymous and Learning have to say.
Anonymous: Since you parents have a formal education, attend church and really care about your kids, you should send them to public school to make up for the parents who don't get involved and care. Its your civic duty to make up the difference.
Anonymous: Since home schooled kids don't get to experience fights, drugs, nasty dress, vulgar language, and blatant disregard for authority on a daily basis they will not be prepared for real life. You must send them into the world of junior high "real life" so they'll be prepared for future experiences.
Hmmm...compelling arguments. I think I'll keep homeschooling my kids.

observations | 11:00 a.m. March 24, 2009

I have friends who home school and their children are academically equal to my children who attend public school. However, there is one glaring difference; these home schooled children have difficulty adjusting to a situation when it doesn't suit them. They are so used to everything being tailored to meet their needs that when they are expected to do something that they don't want to do outside of their home, they sometimes refuse to cooperate. They dont seem to understand that the world outside doesnt give a darn about what they want or need. Obviously this is not true of every home schooled child or parent, but I am surprised at how many of the families I know personally have trouble with this notion that if they dont like something, they can demand changes or refuse to cooperate. In a public / private school, kids learn quickly they dont always get their own way and most learn to deal with it. We dont want blindly obedient kids, but learning to accommodate other peoples desires occassionally would be nice.

Keep them out of public school | 11:14 a.m. March 24, 2009

Please don't put these kids in public school. When these kids enter public school they are a bunch of social misfits. I really is a sad state, there social skills are often extremely poor, and contrary to perception are often a grade or two behind. I don't know how many times a parent enrolls their kid and convinces the counselor how smart they are only to have them fail or struggle miserably. Then the come back and blame the teacher and public schools.

However, the thing they are good at is starring at their feet when you talk with them. It is surprising to me how many people at D.I. were home schooled.

teacher | 11:26 a.m. March 24, 2009

I am a public school teacher, and I have to say that my school is NOT in a "state of chaos" as some have stated on this board. Students are kind to each other, they work hard, teachers are professional and take their jobs very seriously ensuring a quality experience for all students, and our test scores are off the charts. The media has a propensity to report the worst in everything--many, if not most schools, are working wonderfully.

SRJ | 11:26 a.m. March 24, 2009

I was home schooled for every year except 8th grade. I know that there are frequently problems, especially social problems, with home schooled children. When home school is done right, however, there is no better form of education. I am so grateful that my parents cared so much about my education. I'm currently in my third-year at BYU, and I haven't been "behind" in any way. I function normally socially and I have no more problems interacting with my peers than anyone else does. Home school has always been an advantage for me in every way. I plan on home schooling my children, as well. Anyone who thinks that home school can't work is in denial. It doesn't always work, but it certainly can. I think it's ridiculous that home schooling families get so much flack. People ought to stop being critical and start thinking about how to best educate their children.

mamafirst | 11:26 a.m. March 24, 2009

Regarding Anonymous... "In education, its hard to learn more than your teacher knows."

This is an absolutely false statement, unless you're talking of public school. If this is YOUR world view, then I certainly don't want it taught to my children. If yours WAS a true statement, then there would be no Michaelangelo, Einstein, Edison, Ghandi, etc. for they would have never learned anything past their own teachers' knowledge (which in Einstein's case, wasn't much, was it?).

A great MENTOR (not teacher) actually provides opportunity and inspiration for their students to stand face-to-face with these great men & women of history, and to learn from THEM (no filters here). Why would I teach physics, when I can let my children learn from Einstein? A great MENTOR knows the student WELL (impossible for PS) and gently helps that child find DEPTH in their studies as well as BREADTH. We don't stop learning about something because its a new week and we have to learn something new. If we don't know Calculus, we find someone who does. Very simple. Education is not complicated. Only bureaucracies make it so.

Its about true EDUCATION, not schooling.

kjh522 | 11:38 a.m. March 24, 2009

"Ignorance is bliss." Their are many parents who are truly doing a bang-up job of educating their children at home. These parents are usually highly-educated and want the education of their children accelerated and enriched. The rest "don't know what they don't know". In rural areas many times, it is a game of "cat and mouse". Many irresponsible parents pull kids out of public school when they are being referred to the courts for educational neglect (not sending their children to school). The public schools get them back a year later . . . .and a a year farther behind. Who is looking out for the welfare of these kids?

To observations | 11:46 a.m. March 24, 2009

May I offer a different viewpoint to your observations? First, know that we ARE raising our children to stand up, take notice, and make the changes that need to be made. Funny how an earlier poster mentioned that HS'ers need to learn how it feels to go against the grain, yet you are saying that you don't like it when HS'ers do that.

We are not chattel, or cattle, for that matter. We are leaders who have the courage to stand up and be unpopular because we have a different view and want that heard. Funny how we get accused of only having one world view, when you are saying the opposite... that you want homeschoolers to CONFORM to what you want, to your "desires". We want freedom to choose, and freedom to learn so that we can make the best choices. Yes - PS kids do learn to just sit down and shut up because they aren't going to get their way. Socialism is counting on them! But don't be afraid, because there is a generation of leaders being raised to shout "NO" and hold up that banner of liberty again. We are not afraid.

Anonymous | 11:52 a.m. March 24, 2009

To Anonymous who "settled" for a Master's degree...

I went to a public school that really wasn't a very good one. We had some serious problems. Of course, at the time, I thought it was just fine. I only say it was not very good in hindsight... looking back after having completed my PhD.

To: Keep them out of PS | 11:54 a.m. March 24, 2009

Are we to seriously believe that one such as yourself, with such obvious spelling and grammar mistakes, would be in a position at a public school to even know WHAT transpires between a parent and school counselor? You write as if you are "in the know", but give no credentials. However, your spelling errors are a tell. You must have been public schooled yourself.

Shaun McC | 12:39 p.m. March 24, 2009

To those who cry "What about the socialization of our children?", I say, "I don't want my children to be socialists!" It's a joke, but as with all good jokes, look for the truth in the humor.

from observations - follow up | 12:52 p.m. March 24, 2009

No, you missed my point entirely. These kids refuse to bend to anyone. They are spoiled. They want their own way. They will not go along with simple things, like taking their turn and letting someone else choose the activity or simply raising their hand in class at church. Your snarky little comments helped me make my point! Thanks you!!! Perfect! You showed exactly what I was trying to point out. What is that saying?? "Me thinks thou doth protest too much!" The kids I know are not leaders, they are not followers. They are just a royal pain in the butt when they don't get their own way. Please reread my original post I was specifically speaking of people I know, not you specifically so I suggest you get over it and stop taking things so personally.

Kids are far worse off ... | 1:04 p.m. March 24, 2009

"Home schooling is very important to me," Roberts said. "I just feel that it is a more nurturing environment for my children. Public school is very competitive and impersonal in comparison."

When I hear parents make comments like this I wonder where their heads are. There is NO WAY kids that are home schooled will be prepared "SOCIALLY" for life after school. What home school parents fail to understand is public school is SO SO SO IMPORTANT for the normal social development of kids. Kids who go to public school learn to mingle and associate with other kids. They learn to compete in the class room. They learn so many valuable lessons from group activities and clubs to the tremendous life lessons of athletics. Also, they learn proper boy-girl relationships in high school that home school kids are short changed with. Robbing your kids of the fun and great memories of high school is a shame. Finally, I would rather have my kids being taught by certified teachers who have college teaching degrees! The home schooled kids that I have know have ALL had difficult times adjusting as they get out on their own.

just me | 1:06 p.m. March 24, 2009

I have lived alot of places. Homeschool is not what people here think it is. Time to get out of your head in the sand thinking. The world we are living in is a place of change and is never going to be the same as our granparents grew up in. I prefer my kids learn to learn for themselves. Love of learning translates to love of life. I grew up in Public education and it was fine. It was also tough. Homeschooling allows me the freedom to turn my kids on to the wonders of knowledge. I rarely got that at school. My kids are well adjusted and rather popular thank you very much! My kids that went on to High School also take additional online classes and can hold summer jobs down. Oh dear poor wee homeschool misfits I turned loose on society! Time to loose the streotypes and open up your thinking people! Public schools are good and are just one more option. I will agree homeschoolers are a rather independant minded lot but guess what thats good too.

Inmyopinion | 1:09 p.m. March 24, 2009

I am planning to send my children to public school. There are so many ways to be involved with public schools as a parent and to be involved with your children and their learning. I don't feel like every parent is cut out for homeschooling and that it doesn't make them a bad parent for not choosing to do so. Homeschooling is not the only good option. I can supplement what they learn and if it varies from what we believe then it is an opportunity for my child to learn to discern what is true. It's not an easy decision either way you try to educate your child. Education requires a lot of effort no matter where they get their learning. I admire public school teachers and homeschooling parents alike. I just know what works for me.

Easy cure | 1:11 p.m. March 24, 2009

Well there is an easy cure for this one ... DON'T HOME SCHOOL YOUR KIDS!! I have known many home schooled kids and all of them had DIFFICULTY adjusting socially when their home school days were over. If you want to prepare your children for "real life" I know of no better way than to teach them from an early age how to compete with other kids as well as how to mingle socially. Public school provides the BEST opportunity for kids to learn how to compete as well as how to mingle socially. Home schooling robs kids of so many valuable life lessons that they will need as they become adults.

to f.o.follow up | 1:13 p.m. March 24, 2009

And you don't know kids like that from public school? Mellow out and check your kool-aid. There are kids that are troublesome from both camps. I just see less of them from the home-school side.

Home Schooling Bad | 1:21 p.m. March 24, 2009

Unless you live in the middle of no where with no access to public school or you live in the ghetto I see absolutely NO good reason to home school. Why would you want to rob your children of normal social development as well as all the incredible life lessons of how to compete in the class room and the athletic field? Why rob your children of all the fun and memories of high school dances and school plays? What about school clubs and group activities? Home schooled kids are sheltered and simply don't develop normally from a social stand point nor do they have the opportunity to reach their full potential in other areas of life such as athletics. My kids learned SO many valuable lessons from high school athletics alone that served them so well on LDS missions and college. No way they learn those lessons hidden away in their living room!

mark | 1:31 p.m. March 24, 2009

Interesting debate.
"To: Keep them out of PS" You obviously are not noticing the spelling and grammar mistakes of the home school supporters.
"To observations" You are the best argument against home schooling on this board.
"mamafirst" You will not be able to teach your children more then you know, you said as much yourself when you stated that if your kids would learn calculus you will have to find someone that can teach them calculus. Sorry reading Einstein's works will not teach your kids physics.
I am reading much anecdotal evidence supporting the superiority of home schooling over public schooling, can someone point me to some statistical analysis of home schooling? I have a hard time believing that 90% of home schoolers go on to higher education.

Jan | 1:33 p.m. March 24, 2009

I'm disappointed that the state of Utah doesn't monitor home schooled kids better. When I was a teacher in Nevada, I had a side business monitoring home school students. Nevada requires tests and requires that home school students be monitored by a certified teacher. This way the students are following the state core curriculum and on grade level. Since I have moved to Utah, I have seen some parents with great success in teaching their children at home, however, I have seen the other side of the spectrum. I watched a mother of six let her children play all day with the occasional book report on a Bible subject. The mother claimed the public elementary school was evil, but we are in a small town in Utah. I felt these children were really falling behind. I think all Utah kids need to pass yearly academic exams and make sure they are learning the state core curriculum for their age and grade.

Jan | 1:38 p.m. March 24, 2009

This article points out that economics are causing mothers to give up home schooling and enter the workforce. I think for too long, mothers who work are accused of working for "luxuries" for the family. Wages have been stagnant for too long for men and two income parents have bid up the cost of everything from health care, food to housing. It's very difficult to live on one income.

horrid generalizations | 2:05 p.m. March 24, 2009

from observations... homeschooled kids have parents who sell Amway (or something of that ilk), are self-agrandizing big-talking primadonnas, prefer third-party politics, don't trust the government, don't trust their neighbors, don't trust the schools, don't trust traditional medicine, don't trust their teens to date, don't want their children to grow up, study the apocalyptic scriptural passages above all others, favoring homeopathic solutions, that play obnoxious musical instruments like bagpipes or accordians, and are always involved in pet projects that don't really involve the children but are going to change the world... other than that, they're great.

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