Deseret News | BYU, Utah seemed to play in slow mo

Reader comments
Brad Rock: BYU, Utah seemed to play in slow mo

mwc >>> big east | 7:09 a.m. March 22, 2009

It's just a fluke that the mwc teams are out of the tournament. We play much better ball in our conference than any other conference in the nation! Head to head we would beat anybody, anywhere, at anytime. Just wait till next year. Same thing goes for our football program. Best in the country, hands down.

Anonymous | 7:21 a.m. March 22, 2009

I've said it before, including on this website, speed kills, and BYU and Utah don't have it.

Dream On | 7:52 a.m. March 22, 2009

Fact is- the speed,athletism, and quanity of quality is not here in this state. I have been commenting all season about the lack of quality compared to the bigger schools around the nation. This is just fact, and every once in a while, like every 10 to 15 years we will get a competitive team in a sport to compete. Live with it and quit dreaming it's been the same forever.

Comments continue below

sob | 8:42 a.m. March 22, 2009

they also looked like they were playing wearing boxing gloves, could not hit the bottom of the well if their lives depended on it.

What about the SEC? | 8:50 a.m. March 22, 2009

SEC goes 1-3 in the tourney with their highest seed #8 LSU. Is this the same SEC with Kentucky and Florida that have won multiple national championships?

Listen, chalking up a whole season based on a few games in the tournament creates a lot of biases. Admittedly, this was a very down year for the SEC and that was very evident during the year. However, the MWC was solid this year with some big wins out of conference. The MWC had wins over tourney teams like Louisville, LSU, Gonzaga, Mississippi State and Arizona. So obviously they have the ability to play with these teams. Western Kentucky, Clevland State, Siena, Dayton have all won games in the tournament as well. It comes down to matchups, preparation, execution and heart. Wake Forest beat 2 #1 teams during the season but got kicked to the curb by a #13 seed. Don't tell me that it is all about speed and athleticism. How else do you explain Harvard beating Boston College?

How Silly! | 9:19 a.m. March 22, 2009

BYU showed plenty of speed and quickness against ASU and Wake Forest.

They haven't played well in the NCAA tournament since the early 1990's. But that's not a speed problem -- it's a coaching and attitude problem.

I'm beginning to think Salt Lake writers are getting lazy. Speed is the easy (though incorrect) answer. Dig a little deeper.

Slow Mo Utah > Colorado teams | 9:46 a.m. March 22, 2009

It was collectively a great season for basketball in the state of Utah. Five D1 teams won or shared four conference championships. SLCC won a national championship and Westminster did very well nationally.

At least, we are not Colorado-where their three D1 teams were all under .500

TK | 9:58 a.m. March 22, 2009

This article definitely speaks to my frustrated side. The Utes looked so slow and out of sync in their loss I didn't know what to do with myself. This is the first tournament Ute squad that is full of players that I can't point out a favorite. Meaning, there's no Mark Jackson, no Britton Johnson, no Andrew Bogut, no Van Horn, no Andre Miller. Sorry but Nevill doesn't cut it for me. I've really struggled with the personnel the last few years and I look forward to Boylen hopefully getting some good recruits in here that can get this fan excited again.

How Silly-2 | 10:03 a.m. March 22, 2009

BYU has been barely getting by for the last month. Shots haven't fallen, traveling calls, and people stepping on the out of bounds lines...

Unless the pressure started helping them actually hit shots, we all knew what was going to happen.

seadit | 10:09 a.m. March 22, 2009

Unless you've played with or against college players (or pros), the biggest difference absolutely is speed & athleticism, just like in football. It translates into every aspect of the game - faster on the dribble, quicker jumps, faster to defend...

Rock is right, and you can see it every time Utah or BYU play the better hoops conferences in bball - generally speaking they just don't match up in speed and athleticism, especially this year!

slow? | 10:19 a.m. March 22, 2009

I don't think everything was slow with BYU and Utah. They were very quick to be ousted from the tourney! Great job MWC, next time send real college teams, not your Junior High school champs.

Meridian Coug | 11:19 a.m. March 22, 2009

Overall team speed and quickness has always and will always be a problem for BYU. The reality is that we are an LDS all-star team - usually minus the very top LDS players. Every now and then a very fast, quick and athletic kid will fit into our recruiting pool but we will NEVER have a bunch of those kids at any given time.

Collie is a prime example. He was an excellent college receiver and probably one of the top 3-4 BYU has ever had. But look at his physical measurables compared to the other receivers at the combine this year. He had some decent numbers but speed, quickness, and athleticism is probably the last thing any scout would say about Collie. And he is probably the best we have offered in years at what is a very speed/quickness driven position.

At BYU, it just is what it is - great kids overall who represent the Y and our religion well but rarely bringing top level speed, quickness and athleticism. Given that, I wish we would stop crying about what these kids don't do and recognize that they routinely OVERACHIEVE!!

next tme..NOT | 12:11 p.m. March 22, 2009

I have watched utah teams for years both BB and Football. Once in a great while they get to the top
but they are not like the teams that are there year after year.. different priority's in life and not near the muscle makeup of the top athletes in the world..mind set isn't enough....just enjoy that they make it this far (first round)..they are great kids anyway..

Re: mwc >>> big east | 1:30 p.m. March 22, 2009

Are you serious?! "Head to head we would beat anybody, anywhere, at anytime." Really? I have news for you: you went head to head and LOST.

Don't start talking about how your team (BYU or Utah) would "beat anybody, anywhere, at anytime"...you had that opportunity, and you blew it big time! Utah probably blew it bigger than BYU did, but they both stunk pretty bad.

The fact is that we CAN'T beat anybody, anywhere, at anytime.

seadit is right | 1:55 p.m. March 22, 2009

if you've ever played against real speed and quickness, you know how advantagous it is. It can compensate for alot of thing, slow and methodical compensates for nothing!

true blue | 2:25 p.m. March 22, 2009

MWC teams need to swallow their pride and start playing the good teams on the road. Yes that will translate into some losses, but it will also help get them used to playing faster. BYU and Utah don't have top end speed, but most teams don't. If you play against faster players reaction time gets a little better.

Brainy | 2:33 p.m. March 22, 2009

AFTER the tournament Utah and BYU are considered slow and average by the pundits. Utah's good wins and BYU's close losses to very good teams mean they are close, but obviously not there yet. Good season Utah teams!

UNLV | 4:17 p.m. March 22, 2009

Has the speed to compete on the National level. We don't build our teams around big men. We build our teams around fast,quick guards that can defend.

UNLV? | 7:39 p.m. March 22, 2009

If UNLV can compete, what happened in the NIT, i.e. the tournament for the regular season also-rans?

UNLV won at Louisville | 7:43 p.m. March 22, 2009

They're that good. UNLV should have been in the tourney

re: re mwc >>> big east | 9:53 p.m. March 22, 2009

Ummm....Pretty sure the dude was being sarcastic. But fabulous rebuttal big guy.

Two things left off the article: Money and population base.

While money doesn't play as big a role in BBall as it does football, the top schools will continue to pilfer from the little guys be it coaches, facilities, boosters, fan base, etc.

And how many top players is the state of Utah supposed to produce considering its population? Especially in a culture which views academic achievement higher than athletic achievement.

To: mwc @ 7:09 a.m. | 10:01 p.m. March 22, 2009

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your post of laughable comments was pure sarcasm. I'm still laughing.

UNLV | 7:51 a.m. March 23, 2009

Who cares about the NIT. Our boys hauled it in long before that game. Plus Kentucky on their own court is like playing BYU in Provo. Good luck.

UNLV | 7:57 a.m. March 23, 2009

Didn't we beat Arizona and Louisville this year? Aren't both of them in the Sweet 16? I think there is one team in the MWC that can handle the BIG BOYS. Too bad our conference sends the likes of BYU and Utah to represent us Nationally. It should have been UNLV and SDSU. Send teams that can win.

Not speed... but depth | 8:15 a.m. March 23, 2009

In a radio interview with Urban Meyer prior to the Sugar Bowl he was asked what he saw as differences between Florida and Utah. His response was related to football, but I think it also applies to hoops in the MWC. He said the first line teams at Utah could play with anyone, but the second and third lines did not have the same abilities.

When Neville hit the bench with 2 fouls early in the first half the offense ground to a halt. The drop off was significant. With a few exceptions, the top teams have very deep teams. The level of talent even at the end of the bench is considerable. Foul trouble or injuries is a setback, but not catastrophic. With a deep team the margin for error is far greater, as others step up when a top player has an off game.

I just don't see the depth right now in many of the MWC teams. Yes, on given nights their top players have good games and beat good teams. But in the tourney, especially as you advance, your bench is exposed - good or bad. Speed is great, but not the only factor.

Utes | 8:28 a.m. March 23, 2009

Terrible showing on Friday. We looked extremely un-athletic compared to an average Pac-10 team. Think some of that was the players, but some was the coaching. Didn't see any adjustments made during the game to counter the press. Arizona had the horses to press all game, but Utah never adapted and adjusted. Some of that is coaching, some is the fact that nobody on the team is a true point guard who can handle pressure.

Proud of the season the Utes had, especially after the Giaco years. Hoping to see what is in the cupboard for next season. Would like to see the Utes get quicker. Nice to have the big guy, but quickness wins.

I guess it's just a matter of more availability, but football has been able to get athletes comparable to the Pac-10, can basketball follow?

Nice year boys. Hopefully a foundation has been established.

re: UNLV | 9:31 a.m. March 23, 2009

You're right. If only UNLV and SDSU had the opportunity to get into the tournament. Maybe if the conference tourney was played on one of their home courts, they would have made it....Oh right, Vegas lost at home didn't they. SDSU couldn't beat the Utes in Vegas could they.

UNLV was terrible down the stretch this year. Losing to Wyoming and TCU, not to mention SDSU 3 times, twice at home? All UNLV has to do every season is win 3 straight home games to get in the NCAA tourney. If you can't handle that business, that's a you problem.

SDSU deserved a bid in my opinion. Yes they have athletes, but it didn't seem to help them against the Utes in Vegas did it?

MWC didn't pick the Utes to represent them, they won the tourney that UNLV and SDSU didn't.

Quit your whining, you sound like Cougar fans.

Didn't Utah beat Gonzaga this year? Kind of kills your argument doesn't it.

Cynic | 9:58 a.m. March 23, 2009

BYU= nice overachieving white boys (mostly) NCAA power teams = strong, quick, athletic African Americans. (mostly with few exceptions) BYU won't win in the NCAA Tournament without more of the latter.

Love BYU | 12:38 p.m. March 23, 2009

We are what we are. We have great kids, who are great athletes and have great heart and work ethic. We usually play very smart, but for the most part we are not as athletic, not as big, and we are rather slow comparitively speaking. We should always be the underdog for these reasons. In fact, I think we do extremely well given these limitations. I will always love BYU. I would rather have great kids, with good character NOT winning the chamionship, than the opposite. I love routing for the underdog. GO BYU. I love you guys...kind of remind me of myself....not super big, not fast, but give it all they got.

Confidence | 5:01 p.m. March 23, 2009

I believe that confidence is the number one reason why the local teams lost. They looked lost out there because they have not been in that situation enough times. They haven't played against more physical, athletic teams that have their backs against the wall. Sure they both played good teams, and even beat a couple, but they haven't played them when they are desperate for a win. In the top leagues, you can't take a night off. The Cougars are going to need to schedule more top teams to find out really how good they are. I believe that a battle tested team would be much more effective come tournament time.

Formula for Tourney Win!!! | 5:50 p.m. March 23, 2009

I researched BYU's team in 1993 to see why they were able to win a tournament game. Here is what I came up with:

1 - More Depth
2 - Inside Scoring Presence
3 - Tougher Regular Season Schedule

In 1993, BYU had more depth. They averaged 24 points off the bench compared to only 12 this year.

Gary Trost led BYU with 15 ppg in 1993, while Miles struggled with 7.1 pgm.

BYU played some big name teams in 1993:

Teams that made the tourney
Utah
New Mexico
Duke
Memphis St
Oklahoma

Teams that did not make the tourney:
Georgia - NIT
Arizona St - NIT
Oregon
Oregon St
UTEP - NIT

I really believe that BYU needs to schedule tougher to see where they stand. The football team seems to have learned this lesson. The players seem to prepare harder in the off-season, and they develop the confidence they need to take on tough teams in Big Time Games! We played way too many no name teams this year. If we don't make it to the tourney by scheduling tough, then we don't belong anyways!

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