Deseret News | Are new 'Puritans' gaining?

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Are new 'Puritans' gaining?

Voice of Reason | 8:07 a.m. March 19, 2009

Incorrect interpretation of statistics. Makes it sound like growth in the Church slowed. Actually, the population of the country grew tremendously due to illegal immigration. Thus, the Church absolute growth had to be higher to keep up with the population. The relative rate of Church growth compared to the past is about the same.

Reality | 8:21 a.m. March 19, 2009

The Church's population growth has slowed at the same pace the internet has grown. You don't need to be a genius to know the reasons why. Knowledge = Informed Decisions.

Thoughtful analysis | 8:33 a.m. March 19, 2009

Brother Card put words to a concept I have observed for years now. I have seen this at action in my own field of study and practice. I have seen this in action in both public and private sectors. Thank you for your your thoughtful and insightful analysis of this dynamic, OSC, of what is becoming our unconstitutionally state-sponsored religion.

Comments continue below

Slam Dunk | 9:50 a.m. March 19, 2009

This is by far Card's best, clearest, most articulate, and most point-on words in print.

For a very wordy guy who has a lot in print, thats really saying something.

There are long stretches of it that are worth committing to memory.

I predict anybody who thoughtfully reads this accurate description of the militant minority will think of it countless times in the coming days, months and years.

Good Choice of Words | 10:12 a.m. March 19, 2009

Brother Card has written a Great Editorial here.

His Choice of Words is Excellent!!

The "New Puritans", very self-righteous in nature,
Are Everywhere in our society, as Brother Card said.

Puritans today(Christians) | 10:25 a.m. March 19, 2009

The greatest American Christian theologian and thinker was Johnathan Edwards a puritan, he started the great awakening. He entered Yale at 13 years old,also known for his sermon "Sinnners in the hands of an angry God". The reformed churches in america today are the remnant of Puritism. R.C.Sproul is just one of their current leaders. The second awakeining was in the early 19th century in New York area from this spawned Christian Science,Jehovah Witnesses and Mormonism.(not Christians)

brilliant | 10:47 a.m. March 19, 2009

i have always been a fan of card's and on this issue i agree with him entirely. than you OSC.

Chance | 11:17 a.m. March 19, 2009

Good job Reality, you have just promoted the "internet" as the de facto choice for information and knowledge. What a stupid remark. If anything has resulted from the internet's vast sources of "knowledge" it is confusion.

Chance | 11:22 a.m. March 19, 2009

I agree with Bro Card.

essay | 12:07 p.m. March 19, 2009

What an excellent column. I've never thought of the comparisons to Puritanism, but you're exactly right. History does have tendency to repeat itself, diffferent song but always the same dance.

timothy | 12:51 p.m. March 19, 2009

Allow me to paraphrase just a bit."Mormonism insists on its exclusive right to prescribe the behavior and thoughts of all"..I think this is a little closer to the mark..As to the infidels and unbelievers,if i remember correctly we reside in the United States of America where people are allowed to believe as they will;in contrast to the apparently longed for theocracy,wished by a great many Mormons,that would usher in another intolerant,bigoted,simple-minded government that exists whenever religious fanatics are allowed to rule..So to all of you who are afraid of truth and enlightenment,as many religious people seem to be,try to consider the other persons position..You do not have to believe or accept it, as they are just practicing,in my view,their God-given free will to chose their own destiny, whether that fate be damnation or salvation...

To Reality | 1:18 p.m. March 19, 2009

I suppose you have some data to back up your claim? Perhaps a regression analysis, or maybe even a basic chart. That is an awfully large claim to state with no proof whatsoever. Do not assume that because people are making a decision to believe that their decision is not informed.

Otis Spurlock | 2:16 p.m. March 19, 2009

To Reality | 1:18 p.m.,

I think I speak for everybody on this board when I say, "What you talkin about Willis".

Talk about being in left field and completely out of the discussion.

re: Reality | 3:34 p.m. March 19, 2009

Yeah, I found out the REAL truth of the LDS Church on the Internet ...

And then I joined the LDS Church.

Hey Reality..? | 3:39 p.m. March 19, 2009

I'm thinking you need a dose of reality. One, without the internet, information has still always been out there. Two, it's a statistical fact that over 30% of all information passed/posted on the internet is not accurate. So yes, it is possible that the church's growth could slow due to the lies that are spread, sure. But that's not knowledge, that's gullibility.

Boy in BOYCOTT | 3:52 p.m. March 19, 2009

As someone who's Mormon lineage also goes through Puritan ancestors too, my family seemed to jump at EVERY whack job repressive cult. Thankfully my Mother ended that connection when I was 4yo, (btw. it was a Mormon insurance agent trying to shove my Lutheran father into buying from him simply because he was Mormon, that made my father FURIOUS) and became a nice progressive non-pushy Lutheran.
What your strong arm Mormon business network gets away with in Utah, doesn't fly in a Midwest state you are a tiny minority.

History Professor | 4:03 p.m. March 19, 2009

Orson Scott Card is famous for writing fiction. That is exactly the genre of this article. It is fiction. It either shows that Card is willing to distort and lie in order to support his religion, or it shows that Card is completely uneducated. Which is it, Orson? Liar or idiot?

"Puritans" was the name given in the 16th century to the more extreme Protestants within the Church of England who thought the English Reformation had not gone far enough in reforming the doctrines and structure of the church. They wanted to "purify" their National Church by eliminating every shred of Catholic influence.

In the 17th century many Puritans emigrated to the New World, where they sought to found a holy Commonwealth in New England. Puritanism remained the dominant cultural and ecclesiastical force in that area into the 19th century. Its legacy today include Evangelical Churches and movements, and Baptists, among many others, including Mormonism according to most historians!

I strongly recommend to all you faithful admirers of Orson Scott Card that you avoid taking this article as truthful in any way, shape or form. It is not truthful nor accurate. Beware.

Otis Spurlock | 4:40 p.m. March 19, 2009

To Reality,

Then how do you explain the Church's declining new members?

kenny | 5:11 p.m. March 19, 2009

My ansestors jumped off the Mayflower. No wonder I'm not having any fun!!!!!!!!!!

Re: History Profressor | 5:20 p.m. March 19, 2009

While maybe the metaphor used by Mr. Card is not exact, his point is pertinent. There are many people in this country whose opinions are ruled invalid because they are based in religion. I don't feel this is just. Must only those experiences that have been experienced universally by all be valid for argument? Must we also subject everything to a intellectual method before it can be ruled valid? In my opinion those who demean religious viewpoints do so because religious opinions make them uncomfortable.

Anonymous | 5:46 p.m. March 19, 2009

What Orson seems to miss the fact, not every religion is the fire breathing gay haters the Mormons, Baptists, Orthodox Jews, and Catholics display.
There are very devout church going people who WELCOME their gay and lesbian members. There is MCC which was founded by gay men, which has HUGE congregations across America, as well as United Church of Christ. These open and affirming churches look NOTHING like Puritan sects, quite the opposite, they welcome EVERYONE as EQUALS.

Anonymous | 7:47 p.m. March 19, 2009

To 5:20 p.m.

As long as the metaphor supports your ideaology, who needs accuracy and truth?

Sheeesh!

Anonymous | 8:14 p.m. March 19, 2009

To 5:20

As long as the metaphor supports your ideology, who cares about truth and accuracy?

Rusby | 10:08 p.m. March 19, 2009

To 7:47 & 8:14 PM

Fiction may well be used to support an ideology. Think of all the great fictional stories used to make a point or teach a lesson. Just to name a few: "The Good Samaritan," "Fiddler on the Roof," "Mr. Smith goes to Washington", etc. Fiction is very effective to teach or explain an idea.

Also, to History Profressor,

Pretty sly of you, stating Mr. Card's statements about puritanism are false. Then trying to prove the falsity by stating facts about puritanism unrelated to puritanism in England. You only name facts about puritanism in the Americas. I'm willing to accept your premise, but I need more proof that Mr. Card was wrong in his comparison.

Fact is a FACT-sad but true | 8:37 a.m. March 20, 2009

All the complaints or adorations about this article aside,

WHO CAN DISPUTE THE FACT OF THIS STATEMENT????????

"Today, the New Puritans embrace a hodgepodge of dogmas drawn from feminism, environmentalism, gay activism and militant atheism.

They bristle at the slightest sign of Christians laying hold on the machinery of the state -- while having no compunction about using the power of the state to establish their own dogmas in the schools and in the courts.

Believing in no god, they have no law to check them; whatever they think to do, they will try to do, and their fury when they are resisted knows no restraint."

Anonymous | 9:06 a.m. March 20, 2009

Rusby,

You need as much of a history lesson as Card does!

Where do you people go to school? BYU?

boy in BOYCOTT | 9:11 a.m. March 20, 2009

Belief in a god or goddess, has absolutely ZERO significance in the Laws of America....ZERO.

and btw....do you really want government selecting which god?...remember outside Utah, Mormons would LOSE that definition in 49 states.

The heavy handed Christian Right school and library boards are the ones INTERFERING and CENSORING books and class materials which are perfectly LEGAL and FACT BASED information. There is NO scientific rationale for pushing Creationism into a science class. There is no legal reason to ban groups such as Gay Straight Alliance from EQUAL access to schools facilities. There is no reason books on gay subject matter are kept in stacks where students have to go request to read them, when NO OTHER subject matter is treated that way. Would these bigots keep Jewish, or Native American, or Feminist books in stacks, or out on the shelves where anyone could browse through them FREELY.

RE: boy in BOYCOTT | 4:33 p.m. March 23, 2009

You say alot about the heavy handed christian right (with any subtantiation of alleged fact).

WHy are you not EQUALLY concerned about the heavy handed Godless Left?

Extreme views of the left imposed cannot be a good thing either.

Perhaps it's time "boy" should man up.

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