Comments about ‘Budget capsule: Public education’

I understand we are in a bad economy and that many have lost jobs, so there is little sympathy for teachers. However, I find it interesting that there is a consistant cycle. Teachers are given raises and promised bonuses only to have them immediately cut. It is always big news when teachers get more money, but never a headline when their pay is cut. This is just another example. Cut school days so teacher pay can be cut back to what it was before the raise of two years ago. Now the students will also get less educational days as well.

No budget cuts for transportation, nice to know we have our priorities straight here in the state of Utah. Education takes a 5% hit, granted, it could have been much worse, but shouldn't education be the #1 priority, not just in word, but in deed?

Cutting the quality teaching block grant only affects classroom teachers, is administration going to be held harmless while teachers take another hit?

I heard on KUER that the Federal Stimulus package saved 2000 Utah teacher jobs for one year. I am glad for them, but I am sorry that my job is gone. The school program I work in was cut. I had the choice of taking retirement now or going back into a classroom in a subject I am not qualified to teach by No Child Left Behind standards. I would have to take more college classes and take the PRAXIS test to prove I can teach the subject. I would have felt guilty that a young teacher with a mortgage and a young family would have lost her/his job, because I had the years of experience to bump someone else. I will retire five years sooner than I planned, and I will lose my insurance coverage. I wanted to go back to work in a paraprofessional position in the same school district, so I could have insurance coverage until I reach Medicare at age 65. I live in a rural county. I cannot go back to work for the same district for six months. The students will lose my years of experience and I will miss the students.

Can someone clarify this for me...

"The value of the weighted pupil unit, a per-pupil funding method used to dole out state money to school districts, will remain the same: $2,577."

How do anti-public ed people always say we are spending around $7,000 per student but here it states that it is $2,577?

Neither the $7,000 number nor the $2,577 are accurate. The $2,577 number is what the legislature reports, but there is a lot more money going to public schools than that. I don't know if it is quite $7,000, and it is debatable whether the things that are included in the $7,000 number should all be there, but the $2,577 number is completely misleading, if not outright false.

As an aside, I assume that you are talking about voucher supporters when you talk about "anti-public ed people." In case you care, I know a couple of people in that camp, and while they likely disagree with you on how public ed should be run, they aren't anti-publi ed. That sort of derrogatory labelling doesn't really help the debate, in my opinion.

The WPU is what every district receives per student enrolled on Oct. 1. Each district is also able to tax us on our property taxes and so they get money from that. Then they also get federal money- a per student amount, a transportation amount and a school lunch amount. Every student who is a Special Needs student and has an Individual Education Plan(IEP) receives extra money because they need a specialist.

When you add up all that money and divide by the number of students enrolled in district schools in the State, you get the real number of $6,353 per student average.

What is not taken into account is that not every student in every district receives $6,353. For example in 2008, Alpine district spent $5,777 per student, Daggett spent $20,959(highest in the state), Granite spent $6,213, Jordan spent $5,761, Park City spent $8,964, and Morgan spent $5,730(lowest in the State).

Charter schools in 2008 spent an average of $5,572 per student. Summit Academy spent $2,769 per student(lowest) and Itineris Early College High spent $18,759 per student(highest).

Hopes that helps.

The WPU, Weighted Pupil Unit, is what the State uses to make sure that there is some funding for every student in the state. In addition there are monies from the Feds, District taxing on your Property Taxes, and other State monies for things like Special Ed., Transportation, Lunch/Breakfast programs, Textbooks, class size reduction, reading programs, etc.

By using the WPU, the state has guaranteed that every student will be minimally funded. The WPU number of $2577 is an accurate number. Last year the State average of per student expenditures was close to $6400, I would have to look it up again to be accurate, but you can find it in the USOE's annual report.

Anonymous | 1:29 p.m. March 13, 2009

Where does one find those numbers? I have been looking for that sort of data for awhile now.

...teachers will be taking pay cuts next year, probably about 5 to 10 percent. And don't believe the legislators, there WILL be larger class sizes next year. Despite that, as a jr. high school teacher, I still have the best job in the world.

the bottom line for teachers... | 5:18 p.m. March 13, 2009

Goodie Gum Drops...you still have the best job? Obviously a second income comment. That type of just take it attitude is why teachers take hits from our beloved legislators year after year. The idea of hard work for little pay will pay the bills and put food on the table...NOT!!!

I don't see your principal (generally they make six digits per year) stepping up and taking a cut nor does the legislature expect them to. Yeah, so lets make the teachers buck up even more!!

Now get back to those 35 soon to be 50 junior high kids and love it you optimist you!!!

P.S. Learn how to throw a good old fashion strike...in other words GET SOME!!

Principals don't make 6 figures.

Still, the above attitude does explain why we are at the bottom in the nation.

Teachers Don't have it that great. Just cutting a "little" from what is already the lowest pay in the nation isn't a good thing.

RE:Science Teacher | 6:37 p.m. March 13, 2009

Check out Utahs Right to Know and you will find some high school principals do indeed make six figures. They also have an annuity as well as other perks teachers do not have.

The vice principals for the most part are in the 90K range!!!

Their starting wage is much higher than that of a teacher as well.

Don't believe me still? You can also look on school websites and the salary schedules are posted there.

Check it out!!

I searched the entire database and didn't find a single principal making 6 figures.

I don't know about the annuity, but I do know that principals are on a longer contract. They are often found (required) to be at school activities late into the night and work through most of summer.

They deal with the public and really abusive people on a daily basis.

I don't even know half of what they do, but I know I wouldn't do it for the pay they get.

Oh baloney...try again but if you cannot find them here are a few taken directly off Utahs Right to Know with the names excluded. However, all school employee salaries and is public information. You can even find yourself on there if you really are a teacher?

The information below is from Granite School District. I'll even throw one in from Jordan.

Note: Some make more and some make less but to say you searched the entire database is just well laughable.

I found these salaries from two school districts within ten seconds!!! Again, Utahs Right to Know!!!


Principal, Secondary Supervi TAYLORSVILLE SR. HIGH - $110,446

Principal Granite Hs GRANITE HIGH SCHOOL - $108,586

Principal, Secondary Supervi HUNTER SR. HIGH - $107,273

Principal Jordan Tech Center JORDAN TECHNICAL SANDY CAMPUS $102,555

Note the assistant principal pay.

Assistant Principal P.E. RECREATION & DR. ED. - $103,939

The list goes on and on!!!

"They deal with the public and really abusive people on a daily basis."

And teachers don't?

And the debate rages on - - -

In the meantime, thank a TEACHER for teaching you how to read, write, do math, use technology, enjoy the arts - - - along with the MANY other subjects and skills you've learned in school.

What is there to debate?

Administrators and principals make THE BIG BUCKS plain and simple.

Teachers well, that is another story. It takes them nearly ten years and a Masters Degree to earn a livable wage. Unless of course teaching is a second income. Nonetheless, pay is just one tiny component of why morale is so low. The overall treatment that is another story.

Science teacher is off on this one and like most in education or pretending to be they just refuse to face the honest facts.

Consequently, teachers in Utah fall further and further behind year after year!!

Check out the bottom line for teachers... | 5:18 p.m. March 13, 2009 comments.

Just keep on taking it!!

So Sad!!

Why are we at each other's throats. It makes absolutely no sense. The fact is, most administrators are former teachers that made the decision to go into administration. That option is open to everyone. I know many teachers who have no desire to go into administration. Utah has one of the lowest administrator ratios in the country. The fact is we need good administrators and we need good teachers. To attract both you need good pay.

Most of us went into education knowing full well that we weren't going to make the money that other professions enjoy. I agree that we ought to fight for higher pay and to improve our profession, but let's act like professionals in the process.

Let's also consider some of our fellow state employees who did not do so well when it came to budget cut and be a little sensitive to their plight.

Teachers aren't organized.

Yes they have a union. But the union has little backing by its members. They were too weak to form a strike during the good years, and too fearful of job loss to do so now.

They are a lot like a farm animal that no longer gives. They know they are going to wind up on the dinner plate, but are powerless to do anything about it.