Comments about ‘Texas lawmakers forming panel to examine FLDS raid’

All I know is, when the authorities get a call from a panicked teenager who says she is being held in a gated, presumably armed compound and being raped and abused the State has a DUTY to act. The fact that only a few under aged Girls were pregnant is indicative of nothing. Not every sex act results in a pregnancy.

The call was a hoax that was made not only to Texas, but in states from Washington to Florida. Every other state discounted the anonymous call as a hoax but Texas. Texas knew too, but was dying to go into the YFZ community and see what they could find. They waited 5 days after the supposed cry for help to go in, which indicates the Rangers didn't believe it was either authentic or serious.

And when they went in, even if they did correctly identify the one underage pregnant teenager (not 26 as they alleged to the whole world) that was there, that could not have warranted carting off 460 children and their mothers, with the subsequent separations and foster care for every child under 18.

Walther and Voss must be held accountable for their gross misjudgments, and abuse of human rights.

I'll rephrase your comment for you: "We know those FLDS are dirt bags, even if there is no evidence of it! Persecute them to the death for their religion, they deserve to die!"

You and your fellow persecutors are so funny, just assuming a crime though even CPS (the tools used to perform the raid) even admits now that there was none! The State of Texas still has no witnesses of any crime, nor any evidence, yet they issued indictments (which are only accusations), and you still want to hang on to the lie. Well, bless your soul if you can be blessed, but I think you live a miserable hateful life.

Did you know hate will attack your liver? Usually hateful people don't live long. Scientific facts will plainly state that fact.

Forgive and live! I'm sure you've never been hurt by the FLDS, so why are you so willing to believe the evil about them? I wouldn't want to be guilty of believing anything about anybody that isn't true. It can only hurt yourself, as Texas has only hurt themselves by believing the lies about FLDS.

I haven't heard anything about Washington or Floria receiving calls (are there FLDS compounds in those states, too?) What is your source on this?

If you want to talk about abuse of human rights, Texas CPS released their report that 12 girls from ages 12 to 15 from this FLDS cult are confirmed victims of sexual abuse and neglect. There were 43 girls removed from the ranch from ages 12 to 17 which means that more than ONE OUT OF EVERY FOUR pubescent girl on the ranch was a victim of sexual abuse.

262 other FLDS children were subjected to neglect due to being exposed to sexual abuse committed against another child within their household.

Now if only they would have witnesses from the FLDS to tell the horrors of the raid, so it cannot be sugar coated...AND if they could invite other parents/children's rights advocates like Robert Muchnik, Glenn Sacks, Ned Holstein, Dale Harapat, and
Bill Butler...They would learn how to clean up the
corrupt family court system nationally. When judges
violate and do not follow the law, they should not
be able to hide behind the judicially created and unconstitutional cloak of immunity.

DL,

"All I know is, when the authorities get a call from a panicked teenager who says she is being held in a gated, presumably armed compound and being raped and abused the State has a DUTY to act."

The state does not have a duty to ACT instead it has a duty to INVESTIGATE such calls. A simple trace of the call would have resulted in the fact that it did not originate in the state of Texas.

Warrants of this type are routinely issued to cell phone and land-line providers all the time. A cell phone trace would have pinpointed the call down to the nearest tower which would have shown that the call did not originate on the FLDS ranch or even in the state of Texas.

"The fact that only a few under aged Girls were pregnant is indicative of nothing. Not every sex act results in a pregnancy."

That may well be but the fact remains that the call was a hoax and the police finally did find who was responsible for the call and it wasn't any GIRL on the FLDS ranch. That's all the evidence we need to indict Texas

re: Joey,

"Texas CPS released their report that 12 girls from ages 12 to 15 from this FLDS cult are confirmed victims of sexual abuse and neglect."

When you compare that number to the percentage of the general U.S. population which are confirmed victims of sexual abuse and neglect you will find that it is less. That comes out to 3.2% of children at the ranch being victims of sexual abuse compared to over 11% of the general population who are the victims of sexual abuse. You take a city the size of the FLDS ranch and you will find that there is a higher rate of confirmed sexual abuse then there was at the FLDS ranch. That doesn't mean that members of the FLDS religion aren't molesting children since they are going to have their fair share of pedophiles just like Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, and every other religion. The fact that a significant number of Catholic priests molested children and their parents covered it up doesn't mean we take all the children of Catholics and say "you are guilty until proven innocent" and deny due process of law.

Joey,

You have to understand the mindset of those who defend the actions of Texas. It is "guilty until proven innocent" and every member of the religion is guilty because a few are guilty of crimes.

They don't apply that to their own religion or their demographics.

The fact that 54% of child abuse victims are white doesn't mean that the government should take away the children of all white people until they can prove that their race doesn't make them inclined to molest their children or beat them until they are dead (approximately 4 children die from child abuse each day). Why? Because they are white too.

The fact that the local Catholic priest and a handful of his congregation molested children as part of a sex ring doesn't result in every child of Catholic parents in that city being taken away and the argument being "prove to us that you weren't molesting your children along with your priest" because they are Catholics too. Instead, the burden of proof is "prove that we were molesting our children."

Yet, these people being religious bigots apply a different standard for themselves and others.

This is about rampant, unreported child molestation. It has nothing to do with bigotry or religious persecution, unless the FLDS is going to start claiming that child molestation is a religiously protected right.

There is no proof that the call was a hoax. The call came from a cell phone which could have been used by anyone.

The call was probable cause and the warrant was valid.

Once investigators were on-site at YFZ, they spoke with FLDS girls who said they knew of girls under 16 who were 'married' and pregnant. FLDS girls also said no age was too young to marry because the Prophet (aka Warren Jeffs) decided everything. This is what was being taught to them!!

At that point, the investigation expanded to include a learned culture of abuse against children at YFZ.

'Bout time for an investigation. Regardless of how one feels about the FLDS, they are entitled to the rights the Constitution affords them as well as anyone else.

Just keep in mind that state appellate and supreme courts have already determined that TEXAS acted improperly. This investigation will try to white wash the state for it's attempt to boil the ocean in west Texas. I suspect that the FLDS will receive a very big civil award as this mess moves it's way through the courts.

You seem have the facts a bit confused. The state appellate and supreme courts only ruled that CPS lacked adequate evidence to justify taking all of the children from the FLDSs Yearning for Zion compound. It did not rule about the warrant, which was valid or the investigation related to the evidence seized.

The Supreme Court also found that CPS has ongoing jurisdiction and it did not clear the adult FLDS members of abuse. The investigation is still ongoing and 20 indictments have already been handed down to FLDS men.

One in Four confirmed victims of sexual abuse is NOT average - you don't need to investigate that, you can just use common sense. First, how many have been investigated to be confirmed in the first place? Just because you feel strongly about the topic is not reason to go around wildly making stuff up. It also disturbs me that people can get so disturbed about the wrongs done to the parents, and simultaneously sweep the actual criminal wrong doing under the rug. I don't know what's normal in your religious community, but assigning 12 year olds as concubines, laundering money, controlling access to health care, etc., are not considered pastorial functions in mine!

Texas is either bigoted and desciminatory, or really backward.

It was clear to the Rangers BEFORE the raid that the call was a hoax. Yet, the rangers went in anyway.

It is clear that, even though any alledged abuse was FAR less than the LOCAL average, taking all those children was the product of religious persecution.

The FLDS are not angels either, but what Texas did to the US Constitution is what we used to clean out of horse stalls.

So, what are the possible reasons? Bigotry? Stupidity? Power mad? There are no VALID reasons.

Texas is BACKWARD. Remember that it was not until the early 1970's that a woman could own land in Texas. Backward. They would still be segregated if it were not for JFK.

"There is no proof that the call was a hoax. The call came from a cell phone which could have been used by anyone."

What? Have you had your head in the sand, They have the cell phone that made the call, it was in the possession of one Rozita Swinton. They also have recordings of her in hourlong+ talks discussing the YFZ ranch (with Carolyn Jessop)

DL 12:22 pm: "... when the authorities get a call from a panicked teenager who says she is being held in a gated, presumably armed compound and being raped and abused the State has a DUTY to act."

Absolutely. Would have been better, tho, if they hadn't waited 4 days before responding -- a lot of abuse can take place in that time. A little more urgency would seem called for, dontcha think?

Nevertheless, everything up to the authorities' arrival at the ranch's gate can be easily justified.

Once they knew, though, that the alleged perp wasn't on the ranch -- hadn't, for that matter, been in Texas in years, if ever -- their invasion, and the abduction of the innocents, is much more problematic.

The Law (and fellow travelers) knew the perp was under court supervision in Utah before they entered the ranch--they reached him by phone. A more competent Law Enforcement bureaucracy would have known that within a day of the initial phone call!

In my view, CPS engaged in criminal activity when it removed hundreds of children, including nursing babies, from their mothers. This was a severe punishment on the mothers and the children. It was cruel and unusual. The alleged FLDS perpetrators should have been brought to justice without infringing on the rights of the mothers and children involved.

re: Joey 1:24 pm: "... Texas CPS released their report that 12 girls from ages 12 to 15 from this FLDS cult are confirmed victims of sexual abuse and neglect."

Interesting that CPS only found it necessary to keep one of these under scrutiny.

Is Texas CPS incompetent or negligent, not to require some sort of intervention in the other 'leven cases?

Or don't they really care?

Or -- just maybe -- the original report overstated things a bit, and the actual "facts on the ground" don't support CPS' original allegations?

Inquiring minds want to know --