Comments about ‘Groups debate Common Ground’

Return to article »

Published: Friday, Feb. 20 2009 12:36 a.m. MST

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
Chino Blanco

The more people hear from Paul Mero, LaVar Christensen, Stan Rasmussen and the rest of that bunch, the less impressed they're going to be.

These guys have been trotting out the same old arguments for years now, and they don't seem to be coming up with any new ones.

The old arguments rely on an audience that is scared to death of the word "gay" ... and that audience is shrinking. More and more folks will begin to recognize that the way Sutherland describes gay people is bogus, that it doesn't sound anything like the actual gay people that we know.

These guys want to pretend we're arguing about the definition of marriage. Guess what? Gays and lesbians who want to marry are motivated by the same things that make straight folks want to marry. How hard is that to understand? Anyway, Sutherland has already now proven that this is not about marriage. Those guys are opposed to any and all advancement in rights for gays.

Not so

I was at the debate but the reporter must not have been there. If a debate judge would have awarded points, the Sutherland group would have won on every point. They presented fact and evidence. For instance Christensen didn't say of his opinion that homosexuals are rife with disease, a UofU prof expert was quoted from scientific evidence. To every point of fact that gays offered nothing but emotional indignance. The gays in the audience were rude and that whole side was an in-your-face crown, defiant with the attitude that you'll do as we say or we'll hurt you. I've concluded that reporters long ago left the world of journalistic skills and fact reporting and certainly are not the smartest people on the planet.

Matt

I've read both sides and am strongly in support of the Sutherland Inst. The reason the "same old" arguments have been used is becuase we're not the first generation to face this issue. Other generations have simply understood better that sexual orientation is a choice and that it goes against natural laws.

The search for the "missing homosexual gene" is exactly that, still missing and uproven along with the beastiality, pedophilia, and adulter genes.

how sad

It's disgusting that this debate even had to take place. Shame on all of you who share the anti-gay sentiment in this community.

Mc

Chino Blanco: The more people hear from Paul Mero, LaVar Christensen, Stan Rasmussen and the rest of that bunch, the less impressed they're going to be.

I disagree. The more I hear from them the more impressed I am. The more I hear from gay activists and see their disgusting behavior toward those who disagree with them, the less inclined I am to support their causes.

Catchnrelease

Jesus Christ loved all people. The haters in this argument do not reflect His values.

Danny C.

Re: how sad

I could just as easily say shame on you for supporting this debauchery and societal poison.

This argument is going to go on for a looong time.

Eowyn

Um...How Sad? You just kind of proved Not So's point. Yes, this is an emotional issue, but it's primarily a legal issue, which requires evidence and sound methodology. The fact of the matter is that children do best in a traditional family with a biological mother and father - study after study has confirms this. (One that immediately comes to mind is that girls do better in mathematics if their *fathers* are engaged in their lives.) Traditional marriage is the best means society has to protect the most vulnerable population - children - and that is weakening on many fronts. This movement isn't "anti-gay," it's pro-marriage and has been seeking to reduce divorce and single parenting in addition to prevent a radical redefiniations of marriage.

Rob

It doesnt really matter who won the fact is why should anyone judge the way one lives their life? Who or what gives anyone the right to control another. If I came into someones home and forced my beliefs what would happen? Would you fight to keep your beliefs or follow mine? The LDS of all people should understand being ostracized, or are you just hippocritical, are we to judge? Why do we use what suits us from the bible and choose to ignore the things we dont like. Is it right? If a church, a private institution, doesnt like gay marriage then excommunicate them, that simple, thats the extent of your rule but to force religious belief into the lives of people that dont believe in your religion is ridiculous. Once again religion crosses its boundaries into state issues. Our religion is OUR BELIEF, an individual trait and choice. Let people chose whats best for them in their lifestyle not yours. If you think I am wrong, then invite me over to force my beliefs onto you and your family. Think about it.

Kris

The Common Ground Initiative is right on one point: I have thought about and discussed the topic of gay marriage/issues when I never really thought about it before.

However, I am tired of the gay/lesbian community's unending efforts to force me to accept them and their lifestyle. "You're going to have to accept us. You're un-American if you don't. You don't have Christlike love if you don't see our lifestyle as acceptable."

I am not a hater. I love my gay and lesbian friends. But I do not agree with their lifestyle and I do not agree that gay marriage should be legalized.

In America, you're allowed to have your own opinion. Let me have mine.

Calling the bluff

I am done with unsubstantiated claims that gay and lesbian parents are inferior to straight parents. Read a study before you lie again. Here are some:
1. Gay/lesbian parents report no greater stress than heterosexuals, and children are not adversely affected by being raised by homosexual families 2005 Lambert S. Family Journal: Counseling & Therapy for Couples & Families 13(1): 43-51.
2."Gay and Lesbian Families: What We Know and Where to Go From Here" 2004 Wainright J. Child Development 75(6): 1886-1898.
3."Psychosocial Adjustment, School Outcomes, and Romantic Relationships of Adolescents With Same-Sex Parents" 2003 Golombok S. Developmental Psychology 39: 20-33.
4."Children with lesbian parents: A community study." 2003 Millbank J. Australian Journal of Social Issues 38: 541-600.
5."From here to maternity: A review of the research on lesbian and gay families." 2002 Vanfraussen K. Journal of Reproductive and Infant Psychology 20: 237-252.

Calling the bluff3

14. American Psychiatric Association resource document on controversies in child custody: Gay and lesbian parenting, transracial adoptions, joint versus sole custody, and custody gender issues." 1998 McNeill K. Psychological Reports 82:59-62.
15." Families and parenting: A comparison of lesbian and heterosexual mothers" 1998 Parks C. American Journal of Orthopsychiatry 68(3): 376-389.
16."Lesbian parenthood: A review of the literature" 1997 Brewaeys A. Human Reproduction 12:1349-59 1997 Brewaeys A. J of Psychosomatic Obs and Gyn 18:1-16 1997 Patterson C. Advances in Clinical Child Psychology 19:235-282.
17. "Children of lesbian and gay parents" 1997 Tasker F. Journal of Divorce and Remarriage 1997 28 (1-2) 183-202.
18."Young People's Attitudes toward Living in a Lesbian Family: A Longitudinal Study of Children Raised by Post-Divorce Lesbian Mothers" 1996 Allen M. J of Homosexuality 32(2):19-35.
19."Comparing the impact of homosexual and heterosexual parents on children: Meta-analysis of existing research" 1996 Golombok S. Developmental Psychology 32 (1) p3-11.

Calling the bluff4

20."Do Parents Influence the Sexual Orientation of Their Children? Findings from a Longitudinal Study of Lesbian Families." 1996 Patterson C. Journal of Social Issues 52(3): 29-50.
21."Lesbian and gay families with children: Implications of social science research for policy" 1995 Bailey J. Developmental Psychology 31(1): 124-129.
22."Sexual orientation of adult sons of gay fathers." 1995 Flaks D. Developmental Psychology 31(1): 105-114.
23."Lesbians choosing motherhood: A comparative study of lesbian and heterosexual parents and their children." 1995 Fowler G. Family and Conciliation Courts Review 33(3): 361-376.
24."Homosexual parents: Implications for custody cases" 1995 Tasker F. Am J of Orthopsychiatry 65:203-15.
25. "Adults Raised as Children in Lesbian Families" 1995 van-Nijnatten C. Medicine and Law 14(5-6): 359-368.
26."Sexual orientation of parents and Dutch family law." 1995 Victor S. School Psychology Review 24(3): 456-479.

Calling the bluff5

27."Lesbian mothers and the children: A review for school psychologists." 1994 McIntyre D. Mediation Quarterly 12(2), winter, 135-149.
28."Gay Parents and Child Custody: A Struggle under the Legal System" 1993 Patterson C. , Annual Progress in Child Psychiatry and Child Development 33-62
29."Children of Lesbian and Gay Parents" 1992 Baggett C. Law and Psychology Review 16: 189-200.
30."Sexual orientation: Should it affect child custody rulings." 1987 Kirkpatrick M. J of Homosexuality 14:201-11.
31."Clinical Implications of Lesbian Mother Studies" 1986 Green R. Archives of Sexual Behavior 15:167-184.
32."Lesbian Mothers and Their Children: A Comparison with Solo Parent Heterosexual Mothers and Their Children" 1986 Kleber D. Bulletin of the Am Acad of Psychiatry and Law 14(1):81-87.
33."The impact of parental homosexuality in child custody cases: A review of the literature" 1983 Golombok S. J of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 24:551-572.
34."Children in lesbian and single-parent households: Psychosexual and psychiatric appraisal" 1982 Green R. Bulletin of the Am Acad of Psychiatry and Law 10:7-15.

Judgement

Catch and release, Jesus does love all but when you appear before his judgement bar and have not repented of your sins, we'll see justice and mercy in action, irregarless of how much he loves you.

Mc

Rob: You are trying to force acceptance of your beliefs on the rest of society. Of course, we can't be forced to practice homosexuality, but the demand that we accept homosexuality as normal and fine goes aginst everything we believe and it influences our children to accept things we don't believe. As it gains more acceptance we will see more public display of homosexual acts and our children will be affected. Gays & lesbians are free to call us homophobic and belittle our beliefs. They can protest against our church and businesses or individuals that dare to support traditional marriage. They can spew hatred all over the place, but if we dare to speak up about our beliefs, it is called hate speech and politically incorrect.

@calling the bluff

thank you I have been beating this same drum for months but they do not listenm they seem unconcerned by the truth.

Eric Harlow eharlow49@gmail.com

I love how much sense being infinitely punished for finite "sins" makes. You "sin" for you sixty or so years on earth? You're going to be punished for eternity. Geez

John Charity Spring

Both sides of this argument are ignoring the most important point. If our society is to remain strong, we must ignore modern media's emphasis on immediate self-gratification at any cost. Our schools must return to the teaching of old fashioned values such as patience, civility, loyalty, fidelity, and respect for others.

Anonymous

If Sutherland Institute is so intolerant, why did they host the event? Why did they invite Equality Utah to participate? I appreciated Mero's comments. His comments needed to be said. He made a lot of people uncomfortable, but in a good way, I think.

I appreciate the fact that two sides of the debate could come together and talk about the issues. What would a debate be if one side didn't really know what the other side was thinking. Why should one side tippy-toe around the issue. Let's get the issues out there and let's talk about them. And that's exactly what they did.

It was clear there was mutual respect on both sides of the debate. It was also clear that neither side agreed with the other, but that's why it was called a debate.

Cudos, Sutherland Institute!!!

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments