Having been there done that, there is a simple solution that public schools
refuse to implement - just require an academic competency exam for all
extra-curricular participants. Homeschool is all about competency - public
school is about comparing a classroom full of children to each other. I know of
exactly ZERO homeschooled children whose parents allowed them to slide by with a
2.0. And I was on the board of a homeschool-charter school that had five
Well said.Tax payers pay for the right to attend school and receive
an education. Choosing not to attend is a choice.Athletics is
extra-curricular. Additional fees and revenue from gate receipts from football
and boys basketball carry most of the rest.If anything, tax dollars
only pay for the building, utilities, and a few bus rides.
I am a coach of a girls athletic team, and we are mainly funded by participation
fees and fund raising for our program. The district gives us only a $3,500
budget to pay for all of our expenses (which doesn't last very long now a days).
The majority of the tax dollars go to education and facility fees. We get most
of our athletic budget from the deals our schools and districts make with
vendors of soda, candy, chips, etc. (ironic). Stop saying that you have paid for
the "right" to play in after school activities! You haven't! You have paid for
the protected right for every child in our country to attend school and get an
education! I have not heard of a talented player being turned away for being
homeschooled. This is a fallacy! If you child can play hard and has talent, they
will make a high school team! Hands down! If your child is used to being a star
in your backyard homeschool athletics, they probably don't have the talent to
play at this level. We are becoming a tee-ball nation more and more everyday...
This is so not about home schooled children participating in high school sports.
They can do that today on the same terms as any other Utah student, public or
private. Everyone admits that. This is about putting home schooled children
ahead of every other kid. And, as Madsen said at the meeting, it's really about
the fact that he has been turned back by the legislature in his efforts for
years. He should lose again this time. Everyone on the same terms.
Let's clear the air...no one accepts parent notes as evidence of eligibility.
There has to be more evidence than just a note. I've worked in
several schools/athletic programs and never seen home school athletes become
eligible on "a parent note only." The principal has to approve it and he/she
must be convinced...he/she is the one who ultimately determines eligibility.
Any departure from the ethical line would be called to the attention of district
officials and the UHSAA.
Take a pick of the following: A fee waiver student that does not pay any fees
for anything at school and plays sports for free. Driving up the cost for
non-fee waiver kids. OR A kid who costs the local school nothing, but pays
taxes for the school to operate, and pays in full for all school activities.
Here's a perspective from someone who is actually affected by this issue first
hand. As a coach I follow my local youth leagues (in my school boundaries) and
getting to know as many kids as possible. As the kids get to high school age I
care only that they are achieving academically and are trying out for my
program. Home schooled or not! I don't know a single coach that would turn a
homeschooled kid away from his program if the athletic talent was there. Some
of you are so far out of touch with reality it's embarrassing.
This is some of the most pathetic and embarassing comments I have ever seen on a
posting board. Homeschool is a right guaranteed to any individual
who wants to take that path. No one should be punished by society for this.
They should have every oppotunity to participate in High School sports just the
same as they would participate in society as a whole. Public
school advocates need to realize that their way is not the only way. That is
probably the biggest problem with public school. "Our institution is the only
one capable of preparing people to be positive citizens of our communities."
This is not a battle!!! You could do yourself a favor and instead of always
looking to protect and defend; assimilate some new ideas and realize that yours
is not the only way. This is a very selfish attitude that is overly prevalent
in the public education system (and yes I see this first hand almost on a daily
It appears he has something against public education. Every day it seems like he
is putting up bills taking shots at public education. No one is disputing
letting home schoolers play, the issue is accountability in keeping up with a
2.0 GPA. Just having your parents say you are keeping up is creating prefered
If people are not aware of the rights they already have to participate in school
sports then we need to have some kind of public awareness campaign to let these
people know of their rights. If this law passes who's to say that people (on
either side) will be any more informed?The last thing we need is a law
that in the end will certianly seek to place blame, at some point, and
criminalizes people who were just not aware of the rules. This law is jumping
the gun quite a bit.
How do guys like this get elected? People in those districts should be ashamed
that they are not better educated on the candidates when they go to the polls.
I didn't misunderstand, I just wanted to add to your post. Thanks for your
I agree with the points you made. You may have misunderstood my original blog.
I warned both groups not to stereotype. I work in the public schools and my own
children attended and graduated in the public schools. I am a proponet of
public schools. I have a good friend who did homeschool her
children for some time while her husband worked in the services. The base
schools did not meet her needs. She had a teaching degree (English/History) and
had taught in the public schools previously. Her husband was in the medical
field in the military. The two of them had great backgrounds and they took the
task seriously. Their children thrived because of their efforts.They may be the exception...which is why I warned against stereotypes.
I'd like it to be stated that this goes for public ed students as well. I'm a
little upset by the pro-home school folks dissing on those of us in public ed.
It's the student that makes the education, not the system. If you
want to get a good education then you can do it in public school; the teachers,
opportunity, and ability is there. I did it and now have a full-ride to the
university of my choice as my reward, not to mention a high school diploma I can
be proud of as it represents all the work I put in to get it. Those who choose
not to take advantage of this and just float their way through public ed are
hindering themselves. If you don't want us to stereotype
homeschoolers, don't stereotype us. Test scores after all, are irrelevant.
They are rarely, if ever, an adequate measurement of person's intelligence.
They are a great measurement of a person's ability to memorize and spit back
answers on a multiple choice exam.
Those who choose homeschool as their method of schooling represent a wide
variety. Labeling them as religious zealots is not accurate just as labeling
public schools are failures is not accurate. No one can use such a broad brush
to paint the actual picture.Sure, there are some in both cultures
who are on the extreme right or left. Granted, there are examples of success
and failure in both. The only common thread I have seen that
provides success in each are those who support the education and enrich the
education of their students.
I am not sure that this bill is necessary. Homeschool students are welcome to
participate in extra-curricular activities now. Parents or
homeschool instructors must present a report card that represents the courses
the student is taking along with the description of the course or textbook
associated with it. They also must provide evidence of a current grade.
Homeschool students are expected to prove that they have a full load and possess
a 2.0 GPA. There is no need for this bill. It is up to each
principal to decide whether all students are academically eligible and are
considered full-time students.
Homeschoolers are a very diverse group. We homeschool for a variety of reasons.
Very few of us are "religious zealots", although we're happy homeschooling
allows us to include our beliefs in the curriculum. We're also happy to be able
to choose our own curriculum, matching it to the learning styles of our
children. We're happy to help our children go at their own pace, whether that's
accelerated or slowed down. We're happy to be able to accommodate gifted areas,
work around learning disabilities, avoid bullies and drug abuse, and keep our
children close. You are much more likely to find children with special needs
among us, because we could not get the schools to adequately address those
needs.As for our education levels, studies have shown that even with
just a high school diploma by the parents, the kids score on average at the 75th
to 80th percentile on standardized tests. And all the homeschoolers I know
continually network with each other, to find the best methods and curriculum and
for social opportunities for their kids. Colleges actively recruit
homeschoolers, and find that they do at least as well as their public-schooled
I see why you go by an alias. :/ Sharing your knowledge anonymously is the only
way to go. Visit the library or something.
Wow, East Coast and others---why the vitriol against home schoolers? What is it
about homeschooling that makes you mad? I agree with Shaun. If the parents want
to keep paying taxes and yet remove their kids from school leaving more school
resources for everyone else, why is that a problem? Let the kids do the
extracurricular--they paid for it! And what's all the fuss about
whether they have a 2.0 GPA or not? This is not a hard problem to solve, people.
Make them take a competency test. Guess what--the homeschoolers will on the
whole knock the socks off the kids in public school. I find this
particularly disturbing to hear the anti-homeschoolers on this issue because
people against homeschooling always argue that homeschoolers do not get enough
social interaction. And yet when parents want to put their kids in after school
activities for, say, social interaction then they get turned away? What is the
Neither. It's the truth.
Are you referring to all student athletes? If not...Before anymore embarrassing comments are made, please look at the
statistics/facts...this is from Wikipedia ("homeschooling")"John Taylor later found, using the Piers-Harris Children's Self-Concept
Scale, "while half of the conventionally schooled children scored at or below
the 50th percentile (in self-concept), only 10.3% of the home-schooling children
did so." He further stated that "the self-concept of home-schooling
children is significantly higher (and very much so statistically) than that of
children attending the conventional school. This has implications in the areas
of academic achievement and socialization, to mention only two. These areas have
been found to parallel self-concept. Regarding socialization, Taylor's results
would mean that very few home-schooling children are socially deprived. He
claims that critics who speak out against home schooling on the basis of social
deprivation are actually addressing an area which favors home
I believe most Athletic programs raise most of their money through a fundraiser
or a banquet through out the year, maybe you should have a banquet and raise
some money for enlish, science, history, math? Athletics don't deserve to get
cut, and either does any classes. You guys against athletics are killing me, do
you know how many kids athletics actually keep kids from going a stray.
Probably not because your kids are perfect, well not everyones kids are perfect
and this is what they need to keep their education
going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!As far as this story, I
don't like mommy signing a note either and there should be a better way of
making sure they fall in that 2.0 category!
Is that an attempt of satire? or an example of true ignorance?
I think they should have to pass a social competency exam as well.
For those of you who think homeschoolers are discriminated against with high
school activities, you may be right. Homeschoolers are also discriminated
against by American society in general because the only people who homeschool
are religious zealots, uneducated parents who don't know better, or the tiny
percentage who may go on to Harvard because they are geniuses (a TINY percentage
of homeschoolers). If you homeschool and don't want to be discriminated
against, then join the rest of the world and contribute to society. Go to
school, get into a university, graduate, and have a meaningful career that
actually contributes something. Don't be shocked that discrimination happens
behind your back. This bill is another worthless, meaningless waste of
the next bill will be no cuts of home schoolers from any team, regardless of
athletic ability.Be fair to all students and allow all parents to sign
eligibility, thereby taking it out of educator's hands completely. That should
make things fair for all and very interesting.
People who say sports should just be done with are crazy. I didn't even play
any and that was my number 1 memory from high school. Davis '08 baby
Homeschoolers save the state money by not sending kids to school. The
homeschoolers I know chose to homeschool after some serious problems with the
public schools. Bullying and lack of differentiating levels in the classroom.
When the kids know the material, and must sit there for 8 hours learning
nothing, there is a huge problem. And the kids do act up. So parents
homeschool.Homeschoolers choose to educate their own for various
reasons-usually multiple kids to keep their schedule consistent for the
family.So these parents stay home and educate, paying taxes, curriculum,
choose not to work (It is a choice), but then they are to not get the benefit of
their taxes paid at all? Why is it all or nothing? If Trax isn't ridden
regularly, are citizens banned from using it? How about specific roads we don't
drive on? This is craziness to me.To get over the 2.0 gpa, just have
the homeschoolers take the ITBS or something, so they have some accountability
like regular students who want to do sports. If they know the stuff at a 2.0 gpa
level, it's kinda evident they are learning at home.
I have no problem allowing home-schooled children to participate in high school
activities. What I do have a problem with is that they only need a note from
Mom in order to participate.I have certain responsibilities with
extra-curricular activities in a high school. The last time this came up, we
had a young man who was a monster on the football field, but he was a weakling
in the classroom. He was not close to being eligible to play football. When
his mother heard about the possibility of him being able to play with a note
from home, she immediately pulled him out of school and wrote the note the same
day.So, you home-school junkies on this thread who see no problem
with home-schooled children participating in high school sports remember this; a
young person enrolled in public schools has to meet certain requirements in
order to participate. You want all the benefits without any of the
responsibilities. We had a home-schooled young woman play
basketball a few years ago. She had to show academically that she was on the
same level as her peers in school. That's as it should be.
I live in Florida. Our state passed this rule a while ago and it has worked out
great. Tim Tebow was home-schooled and was allowed under Florida law
to play football in the public high school. If it were not for that law, Tim
Tebow would not have that Heizman trophy now, the Gators would not have won and
Tim would not be as effective of a Christian missionary as he is today.I home schooled for over 28 years and paid property taxes all of those years
which is where the public schools here get their money to build schools,etc.
Yet, not once have we used the facilities except for after school sports. I
think that as long as home school families pay their taxes they should also be
able to benefit.
It seems that during a budget shortfall, home-schoolers that are willing to take
on the expense and responsibility of educating their children while still paying
the taxes that fund the schools, should have every advantage possible. The
number of home-schooled children in this state has made it possible for the
state to build many less schools and hire many less teachers (which is why the
teacher's union and their attorneys are so upset with home-schoolers). This has
saved the state and local districts (and taxpayers) millions of dollars. Forcing homeschooled children back into the schools full time so they
can participate in activities like sports, band, chorus, drama, debate, etc.
will cost millions while dropping the quality of education for both
home-schoolers and public school children because of increased class sizes and
less opportunities. We should encourage more people to home-school if they want
to, and save our tax dollars. My own children (we have home-schooled
for 30 years) have been discriminated against because they were not enrolled
full time. It is unfair and unnecessary. I pay taxes too.
Good on ya! Your comment really made me grin!
It seems that during a budget shortfall, the first cuts should be made within
the athletic programs.
Is it really that simple? The parents of those home-schooled children pay for
public education just like every other parent. Not to allow
home-schooled students to participate in extra-curricular activities would be
like saying that only people who ride TRAX and the bus all year can use any
service that UTA provides. We all pay for UTA services, so we should be able to
use them in part or in whole as we wish.The same goes for public
education. If a student wants to take advantage of tax funded courses,
extra-curricular activities, or anything else, then they should be able to, even
if they don't use all of the services.
The question here is whether or not home schooled children would have
preferential treatment by allowing their parents to determine their academic
standing.Some people complain that a parent could lie and say their
student is doing well, whereas at a public school there is a "third-party" who
ensures the accuracy of a report.The problem with this is that there
are also many school teachers and administrators who fudge grades to allow
"star" athletes to participate.If parents are legally allowed to
home school their children and determine their grades for graduation, then they
should be trusted to determine their student's academic eligibility. Some
parents might not report accurately, but neither do public school teachers
necessarily. They're on equal ground.
A better solution would be to remove athletics from High School and have them
I participated in sports and other extracurricular activities in high school.
If I wanted to participate, I had to maintain a 2.0 GPA, just like
everyone else. Our school did not allow home-schooled students to participate.
Why? It's simple. They did not go to the school. If you want to
participate, go to the school. It is not fair that I and thousands of other
student-athletes had to go to school and keep up a GPA only to be undercut by
some girl who feels left out because she is home-schooled. If you
want to participate, do yourself a favor: sign up for classes at the high school
and get enrolled! If you are unwilling to do that, you have
forfeited your privilege to participate--simple as that.For that
matter, I cannot stand the incompetency of our State Legislature that they
cannot understand what they are saying. I think we need to elect some new
people to fix education here at the next election based on all of this junk
opinions we're hearing.
If you don't attend the school, you shouldn't be allowed to represent it or the
community at large in inter-school athletics. This is a no-brainer. As is
typical, our legislature doesn't even qualify as understanding that simple piece