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Comments about ‘Was Duchesne farmer the Sundance Kid?’

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Published: Tuesday, Feb. 17 2009 12:00 a.m. MST

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Ghosttown Bob

I have been offline for a while, it seems my computer crashed right in the middle of a reply to Anonymous. It looks like I have missed a lot. Jerry: What fake document do you refer to? Are you accusing me or Dan Buck? I have not used any fake documents.

Horse Creek Cowboy

Randall,

I like your idea. We are all taking ourselves too seriously. But do you have something against the Diner? Can you stay on for eight seconds? I am afraid that with age, I probably can't.

In all seriousness, however, I have other commitments for the week. How do you look in pink for the 3rd?

Ghosttown Bob

Anonymous: I also have newspaper articles, Obituaries, and Death certificates. Julia, William and Minnies mothers name was Mary Jane according census; Mary Ann Stafford according to family sources. Born in either Fayette County, or Alleghany Co. Pennsylvania. Julia Ann Long was born in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. Julia Ann Long Parkers husband was Henry S. Parker he was born in Keene, Cheshire, New Hampshire, he was wagon master at Camp Carlin. Julia Ann Long Parker died 25 Dec 1936. One of Julias grandsons was named after her brother William Long. I also have Much, Much, More I have done the research, what you are doing is trying to play catchup. You were completely unaware of this family before I mentioned it. You will always be one step behind.

So what was Camp Carlin? Do you know? If William Long worked with his brother-in-law hauling freight, where would they have gone?

Ghosttown Bob

So has anyone other than Jerry read Donna Ernst's revision of her book? In her new section on Etta Place, she has Etta returning to New York in July of 1905 on the ship Seguranca. Signing the ship passenger list as Mrs. E. Place, complete with a copy of the actual list (page 156). H'mmm It seems she takes credit for this discovery, which is funny, since I was the one who gave her the tip on this. She also. She also tries to link Etta to an Ethel Matthews in Texas (page 176), I have corresponded with the person that did this research for her and she said that it came to a dead end. Again she gives no credit to the person doing the research. Too bad, Donna Ernst is wrong on both accounts. If she had shown a little more interest, I could have shown her just when and where both Sundance and Etta returned to the US and what may have become of Etta.

Anonymous

Ghost town Bob
You lost give it a break

Anonymous

Ghosttown Bob,

Thats very interesting, in every census, it clearly shows Mary J. Long or Mary Jane Long, on Julia Parkers death certificate it shows Mary Jane Stafford, at least one Parker family researcher agrees her name was Mary Jane Stafford. Yet you chose to suggest that according to family sources, her name was Mary Ann Stafford, a name, that conveniently fits your theory. Henry Sylvan Parker was a Frontier Contemporary of Buffalo Bill and was Located at Camp Carlin for Years. Camp Carlin was established in September 1867, as a supply depot between Fort D. A. Russell and the city of Cheyenne. Named after Capt. Elias B. Carling, Asst Quartermaster. Officially designated as Cheyenne Depot. The camp was abandoned in 1887, dismantled in 1890.
Bob, I first started researching Mr. Nickels claim in 2004. William Long, of Fort A. D. Russell, was logically one of the first William Long I researched. Yes, I did revisit William Long after you made your claim, and there is nothing that I have found that would support your theory. Would you like to know what happened to Minnie Long? You always seem to be a week behind on your responses.

Jerry Nickle

Donna Ernst
In your book on page 132 you state on Feb 4, 1901 Butch purchased a beautiful gold watch for Etta for $40.10. Your source is an Email from Dan Buck. There is no documentation for this purchase. It never happened. You should not assume all of Dan Bucks information is factual.
Dan
If there is documentation for this purchase produce it for pier review.

Horse Creek Cowboy

Camp Carlin was the supply station for the various forts to the north including Forts Fetterman and Laramie. It was located about twenty miles south of Horse Creek.

Anonymous

"You should not assume all of Dan Bucks information is factual."

Now that is trully a shock! Why would a comment like that be made?

Jerry Nickle

Ghost Town Bob
Congratulations.
I believe you have found the only documentation for Etta Place other than what the Pinkerton files refer to. That is a great find and you deserve credit for it
Thanks for sharing it.
Jerry Nickle

Ghosttown Bob

Anonymous: I do believe I said in the Census her name was Mary Jane. As far as family sources: In the Ancestral File, which I consider family sources it states Mary Ann Stafford, but I think you already knew this.

Go ahead and tell us about Minnie Long, I'm interested.

HCC: thanks for the info on Camp Carlin. Yes, Camp Carlin was the supply depot for most of the Forts in Northern Wyoming and Montana, including the Big Horn Basin. All places William Long was apparently familiar with.

Anonymous

Ghosttown Bob,
The informant on the death certificate for Julia Ann Long Parker was her son M. A. Parker, he shows Julias mother as Mary Jane Stafford born Uniontown, Fayette County, Pennsylvania. I would consider her son, Marshall Andrew Parker as the best family source of knowledgeable information.

Double Eagle

Horse Creek Cowboy
I am surprized that Dan would even be willing to engage in discussion when he is belittled, made fun of and assailed.

HCC. On a previous blog out of a total of 275 posts, Mr. Buck posted 43 times, he belittled, made fun of and assailed anyone and everyone, who dared an opinion. He then continually referred to his numerous web sites, where he belittles, makes fun of and assails everyone. What goes around, comes around.

AC

"HCC. On a previous blog out of a total of 275 posts, Mr. Buck posted 43 times, he belittled, made fun of and assailed anyone and everyone, who dared an opinion. He then continually referred to his numerous web sites, where he belittles, makes fun of and assails everyone. What goes around, comes around."

You know DE, there are those that are big enough to come forward, stand up and take the medicine they fully deserve. In other words, be man enough to be held accountable! Then there are those that when FACTS/QUESTIONS are presented of things they have done for a number of years, they are unable to defend what they have done. There are certain actions that really have no defense, in a decent world. Some also believe, one can run and hide just so long. When the mirror reflects what is, some refuse to look in the mirror. You are welcome to draw your own conclsions.

AC

Jerry Nickle


OK
Ghost Town Bob you just dont know when your beat, so lets try a different approach. The only record you have found for your William Henry Long is his Army record. Your William Henry Long is the source for this record. He was born in Fayette County Pennsylvania around 1857. You have not provided the census records from Fayette County, which would show his parents birthplace and names which could be compared with mine. My William Henry Long is the source for his marriage license and four

Jerry Nickle

census records. All These records show my William Henry Long was born around 1867. Your William Henry Long is ten years older than mine so they are different men. The only thing they have in Common is they both spent time in Wyoming and this is what you use to conclude they are the same man. A bit ridicules dont you think?

PS
My William Henry Longs mothers given name was Ann, just like Harry longabaughs mothers given name. But as you say there are thousands of Anns so it means nothing. What is your William Henry Longs mothers given name? Is it Ann?

Ghosttown Bob

Jerry, first of all, thank you for your kind comment about the E. Place reference in Donna Ernst's book.

Now concerning William Long. you mention that William Henry Long's calculated birth year is 1867 as evidenced from the censuses and his marriage record.

The records showing 1867 are as follows:
1910 census William Long's age is 43 (born ca. 1867)
1920 census William Long's age is 53 (born ca. 1867)
1930 census William Long's age is 63 (born ca. 1867)
William Long's marriage reocrd in 1894 lists his age as 27 (born ca. 1867).

Other records in Utah give other dates for William Henry Long's birth:
-the 1900 census give an age of 36 (born ca. 1864)
-William Henry Long's Death Certificate gives a birth date of: Feb 2, 1860
-William Henry Long's tombstone has a birth date of 2 Feb, 1860
-William Hnery Long's obituary gives an age of 76 in 1936 (born 1860)

Ghosttown Bob

You presume that all of the census data comes from William Henry Long. That is not necessarily the case. Census takers took information from whomever answered the door. The information could just as easily come from Luzernia. His age on his birth record probably did come from him. The data on the 1900 census could have come from him, or Charles Anderson, or Emery Hector those with whom he was living at the time. The date from the obituary, death cert., and tombstone all presumably come from Evinda, his daughter.

In summary, from your own records that have been presented, William Henry Long could have been born in 1860, 1864, or 1867.

Now, from the 1880 census: William Long's age is given as 21 (born 1859)
from the 1870 census William Long's age is given as 13 (born 1857)
from the 1860 census William Long's age is given as 3 (born 1857)
From his military records in 1886 William Long lists his age as 21 (born 1865)
in 1891 William Long lists his age as 26 (born 1865)

Ghosttown Bob

As you can see William Henry Long in Utah records could have been born anywhere from 1860 to 1867. William Long in the earlier census records and military records could have been born anywhere between 1857 and 1865. This looks like a pretty good overlap to me.

Now concerning his mother's name I quote your previous website material: "He never told anyone within the Morrell/Allred family circle whi his parents were other than to mention more than on one occasion that his mother was named Ann." This, and Williams Henry Long's death certificate are the only sources for his mother's name. Hardly conclusive. On the other hand William Long's mothers name in the 1880, 1870, and 1850 censuses is listed as either Mary J. or Mary Jane. The Ancestral File however lists his mother's name as Mary Ann Stafford. Just the same, hardly conclusive.

Ghosttown Bob

As for birth places. Your previous website material states: "Bill Long is born by his own stories either in Wyoming, Eastern US or Idaho." William Henry Long's death certificate lists Basin, Big Horn, Wyoming as his birth place. His Obituary lists the Big Horn Basin, Wyoming. The 1900 census lists Montana as his birth place, the 1910, 1920, and 1930 censuses list Idaho as his birth place. Hardly conclusive

William Long in the 1880 lists his birth place as Pennsylvania. In the 1870 and 1860 census his birthplace is also listed as Pennsylvania. His parent's birth places in the 1880, 1870, and 1850 censuses are also listed as Pennsylvania. William Long is listed in the 1860 census of Springfield, Fayette Co., PA. In William Long's 1886 military record his birth place is listed as La Fayette Co., PA, while in his 1891 record his birth place is listed as Fayette Co., PA.

I think this pretty well sums up the census, birthplace, and parents issue.

All the best.
Bob

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