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Comments about ‘Was Duchesne farmer the Sundance Kid?’

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Published: Tuesday, Feb. 17 2009 12:00 a.m. MST

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Anonymous

That could very well be the reason for what Mr. Longabaugh has on his feet. Really more interested in what Cassidy has on. Apparently he is wearing his every day boots, where the other (visible) two are not? Wonder why?

Gaylen Robison

Back to square one. The only issue here is the claim that William Henry Long of Duchesne, Utah is really Harry Alonzo Longabaugh the Sundance Kid. There are many evidences that support our claim. Here is one clue that supports the evidence: Grandpa Long had a picture of his two sisters that hung on the wall in their home. The names of his sisters are Samanna and Emma. The photo of Sundance with the Wild Bunch matches a photo of grandpa Long. Some coincidence.
If they are not the same man like the doubter's claim, why do the two men have the same sisters? That's even more of a coincidence. More yet: Grandpa Long's first daughter's name is Viola. Samanna's daughter's name is also Viola. Viola's daughter's name is Elva. She is my mother. Samanna's other daughter is Elva also. That's a fact! Now maybe all you old west historians can disprove this. But please, stop changing the subject. Good luck.

tartan cowboy

Haven't been able to access the blog for a few days.So a belated happy independence day to all you guys and gals out there.
More dumb questions:
1: re sundances declaration of barely having enough money for lodgings to David gillespie,where was Gillespie situated?
2: How did SK travel to fort worth from here 21 days later.?
The shoes question is interesting.Was it a case that the photograph was then planned by someone and that the five were told to hightail it to FW as soon as possible? if so were the suits rented or borrowed for the occasion,but shoes/boots more difficult to borrow?Perhaps that is a bit fanciful as the suits do seem too good a fit to be off the peg.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Local Yokel

TC:
1.) MacIntosh store in Slater, Colorado.
2.) Took the train at Walden, Colorado. Ft. Worth was a place they hung out and partied. Read Selcer's "Hell's Half Acre." They had plenty of money they just robbed a bank and train. They needed this type of clothes to run around down south and back east. Probably some of them just forgot to get new shoes. Or----maybe the haul from Tipton was more than from Winnemucca. LY

Kid Montana

tartan cowboy,

1: McIntosh's store, Slater, Colorado

2: by train from Wolcott, Colorado, with BC

shoes and clothes, no idea.

"Horse CreekCowboy

Tartan Cowboy:

Slater is across the Colorado line from Baggs, Dixon and Savery,Wyoming where the Wild Bunch celebrated successful holdups which they pulled off in southern Wyoming. Walden is in northern Colorado west of Ft. Collins and to the southeast of Slater.
The Wild Bunch was an outgrowth of the Powder Springs Gang which used to hide out to the west of Slater. Slater, Baggs, etc. were extemely isolated and made an ideal place to hold such celebrations.

The area to the south of Baggs is very reminenscent of the Highlands of Scotland and about as isolated.

GUE

Butch,

Wasn't there an alleged photograph of Butch in New York City sometime in 1902 or 1908? I can't seem to locate the prior comments about this on the blog.

Kid Charter

There are only two known copies of the original photograph of Harry Longabaugh and Etta (Ethel) Place, supposedly taken at the DeYoung Studio, in New York City. One was in the possession of the Pinkerton detective agency and the other in the possession of Jano Magor, now in the possession of a Magor descendant. The question is, was the original photograph taken at the DeYoung studio, or was the DeYoung studio used to make additional copies of the original photograph?

test

seriously, does this work?

GUE

Kid Charter:

That's interesting. (Your information on the Bulldog Saloon photo was also very helpful.)

What do you know about the photo of Butch and Bert Charter on page 57 in Anne Charter's Cowboys Don't Walk? Do you think it's authentic? Do you know if there are any online sites with this picture?

Just a thought

GUE- Why don't you call Anne up. She is in the Billings phone book.

Tartan cowboy

Gue:
I've now got a copy of the Charter book,thanks to Bob.I can't say there is a very strong likeness with butch in my opinion.The two purported photos in Ed KIrbys book are more of a likeness.What you think?
Someone also blogged about the likeness between Ethel and another photo in the Charter book,i think he was refering to Maud Charter.
I have a particular interest in photographs it feeds the artistic side of me.therfor when looking at a photograph it's with the(frustrated) artists eye that ilook at them.It's worth remembering that it is amazing when we have two or more authenticated photos of one person just how unlike each other they can be.Age,angle,shadowand weight all make a difference.

GUE

Just a thought:
That's a great idea. Didn't even think of that.

Tartan Cowboy:
I'm also fascinated with the visuals. Putting a face to the exploits seems to add real life to what I've read. and I think it was Butch (or someone else) who mentioned the politics of "verifying photos" (so that they fit certain "he came back" theories), which is a little frustrating. For example, I can't find a copy of the photos in Kirby's book anywhere! These collectible books are a little pricey.

If you're interested in potentially verifiable photos, I saw one online at a site called "Liveauction.com" a couple weeks back--supposedly given from Lula Betenson to a friend in 1957. the site claims the shot was taken in Robber's Roost in 1897 or '98. Same large jawline and similar growth patterns in the moustache, but I'm just not sure ...

Anyway, I'm off to call Anne Charter. Thanks again, just a thought.

kobalt

WOW!! Seeing the lack of diplomacy and maturity in these blogs, as well as the religious intolerance, really affects the credibility of the comments for me. How about understanding something before buying into the hype and perpetuating it? let's grow up people!

tartan cowboy

Gue:
I got the Kirby book on Amazon for around 3 pounds.It's worth keeping an eye out,i waited for a while.

Horse Creek Cowboy

Kid Charter:

With regard to whether the photo of Sundance and Ethel was taken by DeYoung Studios, look at photo posted on the Wikipidia article on "Etta Place." It is in original pasteboard frame clearly marked "Bliss Bros." 358 Main, Buffalo. Bliss Bros. were in business in Buffalo New York in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century. That would indicate that the photo may have been taken on a visit to Dr. Pierce's Hospital. It doesn't change anything relating to the original issue of 1901 vs 1902 in Argentina, since the most accurate information relies on Argentine sources rather than New York sources (other than the purchase of the Tiffany watch.

Driftwood

HCC
Are the Argentina documents more accurate than the Pinkerton files?

Kid Charter

HCC
The question then becomes whether the photograph was taken at Bliss Bros. on a visit to Dr. Pierce's Hospital, in Buffalo, New York. Then later Longabaugh decided to have copies made at the DeYoung studio, in New York City, that might explain the DeYoung frame, without the studio stamp, Longabaugh then mailed copies of the photograph with the DeYoung frame to friends, then again, perhaps the Pinkerton detective had copies made at DeYoung’s??

Horse Creek Cowboy

Driftwood:

Last march the subject of the accuracy or lack thereof of the Pinkerton files was endlessly debated. The Pinkerton files make a good starting point for further research, but to a great extent are to borrow someone elses' phrase are "the sweepings of the bowels of an attic." Generally speaking, the New York files are better than the Denver files which lovingly repeat every item of gossip and rumor which came to their attention. The information as to bank deposits, brand registration, and application for land in Chubut fairly well establish that Butch, Sundance, and Ethel were in Argentina in late 1901. The name of the ship upon which they sailed and the date thereof is apparently based upon circumstantial evidence based on, among other things, the date of the purchase of the watch.

With regard to the DeYoung photo, I cannot picture Sundance and Ethel carrying the photo around with them down to Argentina, back to New York, and up to Buffalo to have an additional copy made. The Pinkertons did trace Sundance and Ethel to Dr. Pierce's. My assumption is they got a copy in Buffalo and had additonal copies made at DeYoung's.

tartan cowboy

As regard the deyoung photo didn'nt Harry send a copy to david gillespie,statingthat this was his new wife?
Horse creek cowbow:
The highlands of Scotland are very desolate indeed it must have been very harsh the conditions the guys had to put up with.
HCC.
I'm very new to all this : as i'm sure you know. what is your perspective on what happened to BC/SK ?

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