Comments about ‘Was Duchesne farmer the Sundance Kid?’

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Published: Tuesday, Feb. 17 2009 12:00 a.m. MST

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Jerry Nickle

#6 Try and find his obituary and see if there is a connection there. Maybe it will mention Wyoming or better yet the Big Basin of Wyoming. Of course we know Butch and Sundance were very familiar with Wyoming and the Big Hole Basin.
#7 Search for a document that would show he was born in 1867 like Sundance was. If your candidate was born in early part of 1867, that would be even better because we know Sundance was a 1867 spring baby.
#8 If there is a photograph of your subject and it resembles Sundance thats very good.
#9 Interview the subjects family and find out if they believe he was an outlaw that rode with Butch Cassidy and if they have any outlaw stories. Maybe some of the family is mentioned in Kellys book such as Jerry Jackson on page 150.

This is just a partial list of suggestions. I could possibly give more if you would like.
No need to thank me I am glad to do it.
Maybe your sidekick expert will come out from hiding and help you.

Sincerely Yours
Jerry

Jerry Nickle

Sundance was not one of Belle Fourche bank robbers so Donna Ernst is correct. I received a notice this morning they shipped my copy. I hope this one comes autographed like the last one did. Maybe this one will have my name not some cousin I dont even know. I hope this new interest in Sundance, I have created, will help Donna Ernsts book sales. When the documentary is released that should help her book sales too.

Ghosttown Bob

Ahh Anonymous you seem to know so much, even what I am thinking. I think you ought to do a stage show. You can call yourself the "Great Anon Y Mouse." Now, seriously, I came on here after Jerry came out saying that all he wanted to do was help his family find their roots. Which I gather is originally what some of his Aunts were interested in. I have given a plausible case of who William Long was in hopes of helping the family. Now all of this vitriol comes out because certain family members are hoping to make a bundle of cash and fame over this. Now I am not particularly opposed to this if they can prove their case, but they haven't, and I don't think they will. Their case relies solely on the DNA evidence which appears to have some of the family worried, otherwise why the mad dash for a mitochondrial DNA test? Everything else is only conjecture. Anonymous, by attacking me you are diverting attention from the main issue.

We've been down this same road before with Hiram Beebe and Harry Longabaugh Jr.

Ghosttown Bob

Jerry, I know you won't believe it, but I agree with you when you said: "The experts have distorted and played similar games with the Pinkerton files." This has been going on for quite some time. Yes I personally know of misrepresentations of both the Pinkerton files and of some other sources that have been used. This seems to have been standard practice of some researchers in earlier days in an attempt to protect their sources. These misrepresentations have been subsequently passed down as fact. Maybe after this has all calmed down and decided one way or the other we can get together and collaborate on a project that I have been working on, which you have given me a great idea of a title for. I think I will title it: "The Odd Case of Butch, Sundance, and the Wild Bunch: The use and misuse of the of the Pinkerton Detective Files."

Cats

Dan Buck is the guy I talked to a few years ago who was so sure that Butch and Sundance died in Bolivia. He was also the one who thought that Butch's sister was lying, or at least wrong, about her brother returning to the U.S. Is that true that he has now changed his position? Does he now believe that Butch did return to the U.S.? If so, that is quite a change from the position he took when I spoke to him. He said that even though the bodies they exumed weren't Butch and Sundance, he believed they were still there buried somewhere in that cemetary.

I stated in an earlier blog that I met an old professor at Dixie who was from Circleville who told me that he knew FOR A FACT that Butch was buried on the Parker Ranch near Circleville. I believed his story and at that time felt that Buck was so married to his position that they had been killed in South America that he wasn't willing to even believe Parker family members.

I'm hoping for positive DNA results.

Jerry Nicckle

Cats
Dan Buck never admitted the persons he dug were the Aramago robbers. I wanted to give him a little of his own medicine by distorting what his book stated like he does the Pinkerton files. Even though I believe he did actually dig up the Aramago robbers. Both men were killed by gunshot (Buck 302)and a locale pointed out the grave as the robbers. Buck dug up those graves because he believed they were the Aramago robbers, which I believe they actually were. I was also hoping to draw him out of hiding so he would correct my distortions but it didnt work. Why is he running from me?

Jerry Nickle

I just received my copy of Donna Ernsts new book. It doesnt have her autograph like the last one did. And then I opened to the forward YIKES it is written by Dan Buck. It took me few moments to regain my senses before I could continue on.

Cats

Jerry,

I'm obviously not in the loop the way you are. Is Buck blogging on this?

I spoke to him a few years ago when I was living in Washington. At the time he was an aide on one of the committees in the House. Butch and Sundance seemed to be his avocation. I had seen the PBS documentary about forensics in South America and found it fascinating. But, I told him that Butch did come back to Utah because his sister had said so, but wouldn't reveal where he was buried.

Buck's claim was that she wasn't telling the truth and that other family members didn't agree with her statements. He claimed she just said all of this to sell her book. I noticed that on a later documentary by KUED he seemed to soften his position claiming that she might have "believed" she had seen him. My personal belief is that she knew whether or not she saw her brother. I also believe her motives were pure that she wanted everyone to know that he was not a hero, but a hunted man the rest of his life.

Cats

Part II

I believe that Buck doesn't understand the motivations of people here in Utah. He had a very cynical point of view that was not warranted. I believe Butch's sister told the truth.

The man I met in St. George (can't remember his name) is, or was, a professor of family counseling at Dixie. I met him about 6-7 years ago--he was in his seventies. He had known the Parker family as a child and used to go horseback riding with Butch's brothers who were older men at the time.

When I told him what Buck had said, his reaction was amusement. He told me that Butch never even went to South America. He said that he knew for a fact that he was buried on the Parker Ranch. As I said in an earlier blog, when a construction project went across the ranch and machinery was digging trenches, the whole Parker family ran down and stood on a piece of ground in front of the machinery and refused to allow them to dig. He said that's when everyone in town knew where Butch was buried.

I thought he was credible.

Fred

Hey, Ghosttown Bob, Do you know all the names of the Ghost towns in Utah? I was wondering if you knew which ghost towns that the Sundance kid and Butch Cassidy hung out in during their life time?

Ghosttown Bob

Gillespie and Gooldy - - if your going down that road you took the wrong exit

Ghosttown Bob

Jerry - What?? you didn't know that Dan Buck had written the forward to Donna's Book? It was in all of the advanced publicity.

Ghosttown Bob

Fred: Yes, I do know every ghost town in Utah. I am not going play the guess the ghost town game with you, mainly because it has nothing to do with this subject at all. If you want information on ghost towns in Utah talk to me on a ghost town site.

Jerry Nickle

Bob
Bob
No I did not read the advanced publicly so Dan Bucks writing of the forward was a complete surprise. This is what happened. When I received the book I looked to see if it had been autographed for me, which it had not been. When I flipped through the pages with list of chapters and illustration I came to the forward. When I saw Dan Buck had written it I nearly fainted. After I regained my composure I flipped to the introduction skipping the forward completely.

Jerry Nickle

Bob
Will you please tell me the name of the Ghost Town site you refer to? I would like to go there and join the discussion.

Kid

Ghosttown Bob,
The road to Belle Fourche starts here.
The "wedding" photo of Mr. and Mrs. Harry Place: A copy was mailed by Sundance to his friend David Gillespie back in Wyoming, in a letter stating that this was his wife who he had met on a previous trip to Texas. (Donna Ernst, Sundance Kin Web Page)

Anonymous

What?? you didn't know that Dan Buck had written the forward to Donna's Book? It was in all of the advanced publicity.

And this adds what?

Randall

For The Third and Final Time...Butch & The Kid were "Reported" Grazing at the Oakley Polar King last July 4th Rodeo...
Still Chasing Your "Tale's"?

LDS in TN

Jerry and anyone else reading.

Just consider this. Everyone is so concerned about making their own point and being right. But.

What will happen to everyone's credibility if they have bet on Long not being Longabaugh and then forensic evidence indicates otherwise?

Historians have long had to face the possibility and probability of being proven wrong. The good ones live with it and move along.

Jerry Nickle

Will you please tell me which publications had the advanced publicity and when?

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