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Comments about ‘Was Duchesne farmer the Sundance Kid?’

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Published: Tuesday, Feb. 17 2009 12:00 a.m. MST

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Granny T.

Bottom line is that the "Outlaws", Butch and Sundance", robbed and plundered and then spent the money on booze and women. Kind of like today when cheesy druggies rob banks to support their heroine addiction. Not really a pretty picture or story but Robert Redford and Paul Newman were very good looking 'in the day' and had great sense of humors. So we continue to build the legend and stories that make them and what they did OK. I love the stories too but then I liken them to the robbers now and get a much different feeling.

Marilyn Grace

How Fun! Jerry Nickle, Mike Karr, Dr. John McCullough and yours truly have solved the mystery. We have the science and you cannot argue with science. We will continue to update you. Thanks to Etta, Diann, Jerry, Gaylen, Betty, Yvonne, and all the family members that have helped us solve the mystery. There is more to come. Thank you Geoff for doing such a great job of telling the facts of the story. It is my wish and prayer that everyone will stop fighting and start loving the fact that two families will come together that never knew they existed. Florence Viola Long and Evinda Ann Long never knew who their grandparents were or any of their relatives. They are the lost children on the Longabaugh geneology. Now they have roots and so do their children and grandchildren. Family! That is really what this is all about! Not fighting! The Florence Viola letter asks, who is my father? He was the Sundance Kid!

Much Love and respect,

On behalf of Jerry Nickle the Executive Producer, Mike Karr the Producer / Director, and Dr. John McCullough the Forensic Anthropologist.

Marilyn Grace
Creative Executive Producer of the "Sundance Kid" documentary.

Jerry Nickle

LDS in Tn
Please understand my credibility is at stake here and it is priceless, I don't have much to worry about though.
Jerry
.

Anonymous

Ghosttown Bob,
Lets see if youve done the research? Julia Ann Long Parkers daughter died in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Can you tell me what her name was?

Ghosttown Bob

To Gaylen concerning your "facts"

Fact # 1 No dispute here - all well are established.
Fact # 2 Since I have never seen said picture I cannot comment on it except, does this picture still exist? How is it identified as Samanna & Emma Longabaugh? Does it say so on the picture? Or are we taking your word for it? Are they little or grown up??? Thanks for making such an unsubstantiated statement.
Fact # 3 False: Samanna's daughters were Adella, Emma, and Bertha, not Elva, Viola and???
Fact # 4 So?? So Harry Longabaugh had a nephew named William Henry, so did at least 100,000 other people in the 1900 census, what does that prove? They are all related to William Long?
Fact # 5 the "Sundance Kid" was an alias for Harry Longabaugh. Now, where have I heard this before?

Jerry Nickle

You do like to nit pick. The outlaws generally picked an alias that was associated with something or someplace or someone they knew. Harry Longabaugh was in jail in Sundance Wyoming. Harvey Logans used the alias Kid Curry: his mentor was George Curry. Butch Cassidy was a Butcher for a time; Mike Cassidy was the first outlaw he followed.

William Henry Longabaugh was Harry longabaughs nephew. Isnt it an amazing coincidence our William Henry Long used practically the same name and was an outlaw? (I am still waiting for you to connect your William Henry Long to ours. Please hurry) Harry Longabaughs niece was Florence the daughter of Harrys brother Harvey. We do not have a Florence in our genealogy at all before Florence Viola, Bill Longs daughter. Another coincidence

Anonymous

Bob
You do like to nit pick.
The outlaws generally picked an alias that was associated with something or someplace or someone they knew. Harry Longabaugh was in jail in Sundance Wyoming. Harvey Logans used the alias Kid Curry: his mentor was George Curry. Butch Cassidy was a Butcher for a time; Mike Cassidy was the first outlaw he followed.

William Henry Longabaugh was Harry longabaughs nephew. Isnt it an amazing coincidence our William Henry Long used practically the same name and was an outlaw? (I am still waiting for you to connect your William Henry Long to ours. Please hurry) Harry Longabaughs niece was Florence the daughter of Harrys brother Harvey. We do not have a Florence in our genealogy at all before Florence Viola, Bill Longs daughter. Another coincidence

Anonymous

Ghosttown Bob,
Perhaps Julias daughter was to hard. Lets try this one, Henry S. and Julia Long Parker of Cheyenne, Laramie County, Wyoming had two grandchildren, who died in Salt Lake City, Utah, within the last twenty years. If you cant name them, then you have not done the necessary research needed to make the claim that William Long deserted the Army in 1893, roamed around the West a few years, eventually ending up in Utah.
Census Fact: 1860 census: There where 88 William Longs born between 1850 and 1860, in Pennsylvania, there where 605 William Longs nationally. 1870 census: There were 89 William Longs born between 1855 and 1865, in Pennsylvania, there were 607 William Longs nationally. 1880 census: There where 797 William Longs born between 1865 and 1875 nationally, 113 in Pennsylvania.

Jerry Nickle

Bob
Bob
#1 No dispute here.

#2 Are we supossed to take your word for it that your William Henry Long was our William Henry Long without documentation?

#3 Two of Samannas daughters were named Emma ELVA and Bertha VIOLA. Why did you leave the names Elva and Viola of your post? Did you do that intentionally? Those names are not in our family genealogy. They are longabaugh family names. Why did Bill Long name his daughter Florence Viola, both Longabaugh family names? Why did he name his granddaughter Elva, another Longabaugh family name? Why did he himself use a Longabaugh family name? Dont you recognize the amazing coincidence? Or did he use those names intentionally?
The experts have distorted and played similar games with the Pinkerton files.

#4 Yes your right there were thousands of William Henrys Including your and ours, two different men

#5You probably heard Sundance Kid was the alias for Harry Longabaugh here first.

Come on do a little better
Jerry

Jerry Nickle

I have received several emails asking if we have the results of the DNA tests yet. We do not have the results yet.
Jerry

Ghosttown Bob

Jerry (Anonymous): I don't know what Florence has to do with all of this. I would think you would be more interested in finding out what happened to Julia Ann and finding her obituary. Oh, by the way, if we are playing the family name game William Long's niece was Florence too, what a coincidence, Oh and wait, Julia's middle name was Ann, wow, another coincidence. Oh, and another one, in the 1900 census there were 76950 Violas and 16799 Elvas, they must all be related too. I don't see how any of this has to do with connecting William Long with Harry Longabaugh, either you have the evidence or you don't. Your the one that has to prove the relationship.

Ghosttown Bob

Jerry: Hey did you hear that Donna Ernst's new book is coming out on Sunday? It might be interesting to see what she has to say. I understand that she sides with you that Harry Longabaugh was not involved with the Belle Fourche robbery. It might be interesting to see what her reasoning is.

Ghosttown Bob

#1 No dispute here
#2 You expect me to take Gaylen's word without documentation, where's your's?
#3 Middle names for children who died at birth, how convenient.
#4 And your point? Name association is a game.
#5 The use of the Alias of "Sundance Kid" for Harry Longabaugh has been around longer than you have been, but using that alias for William Long, well now that is recent.

Ghosttown Bob

Now about the DNA results, Marilyn should never have said that you'all had "solved the mystery" and "We have the science and you cannot argue with science." Jerry, you don't have the results of the DNA tests yet. You do not have the science.My sources tell me that poor Dr. McCullough was unable to get enough Y-chromosome DNA to make a direct match. So now the family is scrambling around trying to locate female descendants of the Longabaugh family willing to give DNA sample for mitochondrial DNA testing. Of course this is going to be extremely difficult since all of Longabaugh's nieces either died without children. The may have to go back to the 1700's to trace someone down.

Now just how much DNA did Dr. McCullough need for a Y-Chromosome test. Sorensen will do as little as an 11 marker test. A skull, a femur, or whatever else Dr. McCullough took out this last time wasn't enough? This seems like inconclusive results to me. Or were they negative?? Which by the way I predicted back on Dec. 18th.

Anonymous

Ghosttown Bob | 7:58 a.m. Feb. 20, 2009
Gillespie and Gooldy

Jerry Nickle

You have no idea what we are doing.

Anonymous

Ghosttown Bob,
I see no difference between your claim that you can prove William Long of Fayette County, Pennsylvania and William Henry Long of Duchesne, Utah are one and the same, and Jerry Nickles claim, that William Henry Long of Duchesne, Utah and Harry Longabaugh are one and the same, unless you feel Harry Longabaugh has celebrity status, because of the published articles that have been written about Harry Longabaugh. When you posted/published your article about William Long on the blog, your William Long of Fayette County, Pennsylvania, therefore achieved the same celebrity status, and just as Mr. Nickle is obligated to provide proof, you are also, now obligated by your claim to provide proof.
Either you have the evidence or you don't. Your the one that has to prove the relationship.

Anonymous

Ghosttown Bob, doesnt know what the hes talking about. He concocted a story about William Long based solely on the 1880 census and the Army records for William Long. From the 1860 census he found they were living in Fayette County, Pennsylvania. Figured by placing William Long in Wyoming it makes his story more believable. All hes trying to do is discredit Nickle. No matter what the DNA results say, they are laying the ground work to create doubt, they must be worried. Can you imagine what will happen if the DNA comes back positive.

Jerry Nickle


Bob
Anonymous has discovered your army deserter was not Bill Long as you hoped. Sorry. So try again. Let me help you
Dan Buck made some very important discoveries that show Butch and Sundance were not killed in Bolivia. He found the Aramayo robbers that were killed at San Vacente and exhumed their remains for a scientific examination. The robbers were not Butch and Sundance. One was Enrique B. Hutcheon (Buck 269) and the other was Gustave Zimmer. They both died of gunshots. (Buck302). With Mr Bucks discoveries and the Pinkerton files (Memo dated Mar 22, 1909 and memo dated mar 26, 1910) we know Butch and Sundance returned home to the United States. Mr. Buck deserves a pat on the Back for his discoveries. Thank you Mr. Buck.
Bob, because your deserter has failed you, here is a list of suggestions for you to discover where Sundance went and what identity he assumed.

Jerry Nickle

1We know this person rode with Butch Cassidy. Try and find some document that mentions Butch Cassidy and someone else that was associated Butch. This narrows your research considerably. Newspaper articles are good sources.
#2. Look for a person that used an alias. Research the alias to see if it is a dead end. This is the first thing you want to do.
#3 If this person was Sundance he would have tried to hide his real identity and thats why you found a dead end.
#4 Determine if the alias he used had a relationship to someplace or somebody in Sundancess history, maybe his Longabaugh family. Research his descendants to see if their names have a connection.
#5 If this person had a picture of Sammana and Emma Longabaugh hanging on his living room wall or someone he believed was Sammana and Emma. That would be very good.

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