Comments about ‘Was Duchesne farmer the Sundance Kid?’

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Published: Tuesday, Feb. 17 2009 12:00 a.m. MST

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Horse Creek Cowboy

The intriguing thing about Tap Duncan is that persons who allegedly knew Duncan positively identified the corpse at Parachute as Tap Duncan. As indicated by Geoff Dobson, Tap lived to 1944 and thus the eyeball witnesses in Parachute were in error. That also indicates the frailties of eyeball witnesses and identifications. Tap, however, was not necessarily as pure as the driven snow (which is still falling in Horse Creek). In 1889, his older brother Dick Duncan slew a family with the proverbial blunt object near Eagle Pass and stole their wagon and household goods. Court records suggest that Tap may have been at least indirectly involved. After appeals to the Texas Court of Appeals and the US Supreme Court, Dick was the star performer at the only legal hanging in Maverick County. Tap was the nephew by marriage of Tom Ketchum. Again, the significance of Tap is the doubt as to Harvey Logan's death raised by the misidentification, something we are still debating as undoubtedly we will be debated as to Sundance one hundred years from now.

Kid

Dan,
About thirty or more years before you ever heard of Butch Cassidy and Harry Longabaugh, I was listening to men retell their personal experiences and memories of Butch Cassidy, Harry Alonzo, The Wild Bunch, Jack Ryan, Ora Haley, Noah and Albert Reader, Jeff and Mike Dunbar, David Gillespie, Wilcox, Tipton, Winnemucca, etc., etc. I knew Tom Vernon, John Gooldy, David Gillespie, Ed Wren, etc. I knew a man, who not only was there, but participated. When Charles Kelly tried to interview him, he threw him out of the house, told Kelly, Ill never tell you what I know, if you ever come around again, Ill cut your lying tongue out. He once told me never tell a newspaper man or writer what you know, theyll screw it up. Something, Ive tried to remember when dealing with authors of western outlaw history. Fortunately for me, I did not, nor do I intend to write a book. As a descendant of two members of Cassidys outlawry, I have every right to challenge your or any other version of events, when I find evidence contrary to what yourself and others have written, or said.

Gaylen Robison

Kid.
Would you please tell us what you know about Harry Alonzo Longabaugh? Some of us out here sure would thank you kindly if we knew more.
Thank you.

Daniel Buck

Kid,

Challenge away, but don't pass up the opportunity to write up what you know. Share your knowledge, it's part of history.

Dan

A C

Mr. Kid:

My hat is off to you. You state what, more than likely, are facts, without running others down. A friend of mine, Mr. Harv Murdock (Grandson of Elza Lay) sounds a lot like you. Doesn't blow a lot of self promoting wind, just says what was.

Thank you. If you ever (which I don't think you will) write a book, pleasse let me know. I have a couple of so called "Western History" books I would like to trade in. A pleasure reading what you have to say. And I don't seem to hear you blowing your own horn. Don't quit now!

AC

Kid

Dan,
My grandmother would rise from her grave and kick my rear end, if I ever wrote a book, Shes probably not very happy with me, as it is. Write a book no way, Im to old for fame and fortune, besides, most of the authors Ive talked to say, theres very little fortune to be made. If the fame includes defending your book for the rest of your life, no thanks. As for the historical aspect, historians will still be trying to sort out fact from fiction two hundred years from now. Its time for me to take a break, and let you people get back to Henry Long, Im plumb tuckered out trying to keep you in line Dan.

Kid

Gaylen Robison
Let me put it this way, Bert Charter and Harry Alonzo Longabaugh were close friends as early as 1893. Bert worked for Charlie Perkins at Dixon, he may have known Harry as early as the late 1880s. Their friendship. Documented.
Bert Charters step-father was quartermaster agent at Fort Duchesnse, Utah, 1893 to 1896. Documented.
Did Harry Alonzo accompany Bert when he visited his mother at Fort Duchesnse? At the very least, Bert knew or met Henry Long at Fort Duchesnse. Probable. Did Harry Alonzo become Henry Long at Fort Duchesnse? I guess the DNA will have to answer that question. No one ever mentioned the name Henry Long in association with Harry Alonzo in any conversation I can recall. Harry Alonzo Longabaugh, (seldom referred to as Longabaugh or the Sundance Kid), was extremely well liked by those who knew him. The old timers, said that after his visit with Bert in 1908, nothing was ever heard of Harry Alonzo again.
Sorry Gaylen, Thats about all I dare say without getting into the hearsay, double hearsay, and triple hearsay, business.

Daniel Buck

Kid,

I'm sorry I've tuckered you out. You are right that there's neither fame nor fortune at the end of most literary trails. There's an old joke in writing circles that the only books that sell are those about cats, sex, or Nazis, meaning that a sure-fire best seller would be The Sex Life of a Nazi Cat.

Nonetheless, you might consider something briefer than a book, for example, an article in the Journal of the Wild West History Association summarizing what you know. Most people, including myself, would read it with interest and appreciation.

Dan

TM

Kid... For the sake of history... I implore you to please write down what you know in a journal or simply a outline that included what you know to be true followed by stories and then hear say for the sake of future researchers. I don't know who you are or your age...but what you have shared has been very good reading to date. Your information will be appreciated by those seeking historical facts.

Curious

What gives this Dan Buck the credentials to be known as the "Foremost authority" on anything- Who is Dan Buck?
"Kid " seems to have more going for him than Mr. Buck.

Anonymous

"Kid " seems to have more going for him than Mr. Buck.

Mr. Curious, are you insulting the Kid, or trying to compliment him? Did you notice the Kid does not rely on reported information, nor does he insult those that may not agree with him. Big improvement.

Keep up the good work Kid.

The Kid does seem to lack the ability to direct us to "items" his wife has written. (Different and nice.) One other thought, he isn't afraid to answer "all" questions.

Kid

TM
Youll be happy to know that I have it all in writing. But its of little use to factual history. I can document names, places, dates, and events through Civil War pension files, legal documents etc. As it has been repeated several times on this blod, the Pinkerton files, newspaper articles and Seringo are unreliable sources. Unfortunately, that puts my story in the hearsay, double hearsay, triple hearsay category. Its a fascinating story, but its just a story.
However, I can and have revealed bits and pieces of the story, along with research material, that has and will benefit others in their research. I have convinced at least a couple of fellows, that I know at least a little bit about the subject. Although, one fellow still disagrees with me, about Grubbed the Left Ear. Following my grandfathers advice, I have not revealed everything I know, yet.

Anonymous

"Following my grandfathers advice, I have not revealed everything I know, yet."---From the Kid.

And then there are those that try and "reveal" more than they really know. Almost seems like, if you know what you are talking about, you don't have to retell it over and over. Sooner or later, folks will figure it out for themselves. Right, Mr. Buck?

Horse Creek Cowby

Kid,

Even hearsay, double hearsay, and triple hearsay is useful in giving leads to follow. That's why I suggested that the leads in Baggs bore following.
Right now, I am interested in the connection between Tap Duncan and the Kilpatricks and the Sheffields. As I understand it, Tap was married to Ben's niece; Boone was married to Truda Sheffield; and in 1913 Truda's brother Dan killed Felix Kilpatrick. The town of Sheffield, Texas is named after Will Sheffield allegedly Truda's father. Additionally there was a Jim Sheffield and a Gus Sheffield who raised horses. What I am looking for is a connection to Martin Sheffield and to the Perry's and Crocket's from Ozona, Texas. Those connections, if they exist, may explain a missing link involving the so-called "Wild Bunch."

Anonymous

It was meant as a definite compliment to KID- He is very good at saying what he believes and puts it way more plainly than some/most of the others

TM

You guys crack me up! You have to admit this is a great Blog!

Kid

I never could make the Sheffield connection to the Wild Bunch. Bige Duncan and Jim Sheffield were mentioned in one article.

George Taplin Duncan was married to Ollie Ann Binnion, daughter of Robert G. Binnion and Amanda C. Brown.
Abijah Elam {A. E. Bige} Duncan, older brother of Tap Duncan, was married to Nancy B. Ketchum, daughter of Green Berry Ketchum and Temperance Katherine Wydick.
Truda Eugenia Sheffield, daughter of William Franklin Sheffield and Virginia Judson Hopkins, was married to Daniel Boone Kilpatrick, son of George W. Kilpatrick and Mary G. Davis.

Kid

From THE LAST GASP OF THE WILD BUNCH
Ben Kilpatrick at Baxter's Curve,
March 13, 1912
C.F. Eckhardt
There were others involved and suspicion centered around Ben's brother Felix Kilpatrick and Outlaw Dan Sheffield, brother to Ben's sister in-law (Boone's wife , Truda Sheffield).

William Frank Sheffield Jr. May 24, 1876, Brown County, Texas, Feb. 18, 1953, Sanderson, Terrell County, Texas.
Daniel Pinkney Sheffield, Oct. 22, 1877, Brown County,Texas, July 29, 1938, Van Horn, Culberson County, Texas.

Odessa American, The
Wednesday, December 10, 1958 Odessa, Texas
Last Rites Set For Iraan Man
IRAAN (Staff) Graveside rites for Daniel Boone Kilpatrick, 87, former Iraan constable who died in General Hospital here Tuesday, were to be held at 4 p. m. Wednesday in Iraan Cemetery under direction of Moore Funeral
Home of McCamey. A resident of Pecos for over 60 years, Kilpatrick had served as a constable at Iraan for many
years. Survivors include the widow; three sons, Wright Kilpatrick of Barnhart, Buster Kilpatrick of the U. S. Air Force in Turkey and Billy Kilpatrick of Mapleton, Ore.; a sister, Alice Kilpatrick of Christoval; and three grandchildren.

Anonymous

GHOST HI ?
TEXAS PMAM??

Horse Creek Cowboy

Kid,

Thanks. Will continue to work on Perry connection.

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