Quantcast

Comments about ‘Was Duchesne farmer the Sundance Kid?’

Return to article »

Published: Tuesday, Feb. 17 2009 12:00 a.m. MST

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
Daniel Buck

The troopers name was Merrill Johnson, and the incident took place, according to Johnson, on July 17, 1941. Youll find the story in Patterson (1998), pp. 235-37. If the visit is true, Butch Cassidy was alive four years after his sister Lula said he had died.

I think the Johnson story first appeared Butch Cassidy Lives? Harold Schindler, Salt Lake Tribune, October 10, 1993.

Another ramble through the Butch resurrection maze is Did Butch Cassidy Return? His Family Cant Decide, Daniel Buck & Anne Meadows, WOLA JOURNAL, vol. VI, no. 3 Spring 1998. You can find the text online with an assist from the baqueanos at Google.

Cheers,

Dan

Jerry Nickle

Dan
Do you actually believe your WOLA articles will be accepted by the public as more credible than the Pinkerton files?

Around my house my family cannot agree on what to have for dinner. The same is true for Bill Long. It means nothing if the Parker family cannot agree about Butch

Ghosttown Bob

Dan: Some of the Morrells, Longs, and Parkers Don't like to be reminded of your article. They prefer to cover up the fact that not everyone in their families believe Butch and Sundance came back. Particularly hard for them is the assertion that Max Parker intimated before he died that Butch never came back from So. American, let alone visited the family.

Anonymous

"The troopers name was Merrill Johnson, and the incident took place, according to Johnson, on July 17, 1941. Youll find the story in Patterson (1998), pp. 235-37. If the visit is true, Butch Cassidy was alive four years after his sister Lula said he had died."------As stated by Buck.

Now I am confused. You (whether you admit it or not) accused Lula of having a "corroded" (due to age) mind. I also understand you wrote Dora Flack, asking if she thought Lula was a liar.

Now all of a sudden, to back up your dis-credit of the Johnson story, you want to use someone you don't believe told the truth, Lula Parker Betenson. Which way do you want it Daniel? Apparently, "shall we say"--Both!

I think I read somewhere that Lula also said, her brother Butch, was really Zimmer. But who would believe Mrs. Betenson!

Jerry Nickle

Dan
You say Mike Bells Buenos Aires discovery is excellent. You making that statement takes my breath away. Lets start with the first page.

The article was supposed to have been published April 17, 1912. This is four years after you say B&S were killed. Why did it take four years after their deaths before this article was published?

Where is Powder Springs Nevada?

The Winnemucca bank robbery happened in Sept 1900 not 1902 as the article states.

Who is this leader the Napoleon Flat Nose George Carver the Colonel who had a military appearance?

After we cover this lets go to the second page.

Daniel Buck

Jerry,

You didn't read my post, and you certainly have not read Mike Bell's essay.

All of the issues you raise in your 1:52 p.m. March 31, 2009, post are discussed in Bell's essay. That's the entire point of his essay; it's a rumination on the Buenos Aires Standard article.

Bell goes into who might have written the article, how it got published in 1912, the errors contained in it, etc.

Best,

Dan

Ghosttown Bob

Jerry: I don't think that Dan has commented on the veracity or accuracy of that article. He has left that to Mike Bell. I am sure you have read Donna's transcription, there are many inaccuracies and exaggerations, there are also many things that can be collaborated. I thought it sounded like a souped up version of stuff that James Horan wrote. (style and tone, bot individual stories) Why don't you get Mike's articles as well. He does a pretty good job of noting what is accurate and what is not.

I'm still trying to get a copy of this for you.

Anonymous

May I be allowed to use "reportedly said" info? I would think so, as Buck does.

I speak of a fellow I knew, who had a brother that worked with Merrill Johnson for a number of years. He claimed Johnson was one of the most truthful men he ever knew. I believe they were Utah State Police officers, or similiar positions. As I never met the brother or Johnson face to face, this is "reported" infomation.

Am I the only one to notice how the "foremost authority" will use "any & all" information. (whether it is true, matters not) Only requirement is, it must agree with what he puts out.

But the first word spoken or written, that does not agree with Buck, oh my, there is no way that can be correct. Family doesn't agree, Zimmer does not agree, all the hearsay that Buck has, does agree (of course there are equal amounts, if not more, that do NOT agree), that you won't hear about.

Mr Buck, for someone who only proved you can have a hole dug and collect what others say, you sure make a lot of noise.

Jerry Nickle

This is the introduction to Bells discovery as written by Donna Ernsts in her book.

The Standard of Buenos Aires related the story of the Winnemucca (Nevada) bank robbery, as told by the Sundance Kid to an acquaintance in Argentina, three years after the deaths of Sundance and Butch in Bolivia, the unnamed acquaintance wrote the account for this English-language newspaper in Buenos Aires. The article was discovered by British Wild Bunch researcher Michael Bell, who later wrote pieces comparing the many new, finds with the few inaccuracies.

That statement is breathtaking. She states Sundance is the source for this article. What are the many new finds and what are the few inaccuracies? She does not include Mikes Bells analysis and because of that she left the readers with the impression the article was mostly accurate. I wonder if the University of Okalahoma is happy with her by her doing this? Where can I see Bells analysis?

Dan
Please use words this cowboy can understand without using a dictionary.

Jerry Nickle


Because the Parker family and mine do not have complete agreement on Butch or Sundance does not mean much. They cannot all be dismissed as Dan Buck has done. Different people have a different perception or a different reason or motive for their beliefs. I would think the experts would have the ability to understand this, but I guess not.

Jerry Nickle

In 1912 Buenos Aires there were only a few people who ever heard of B&S. Why would a newspaper publish an article that would not sell? Dan Buck, Donna Ernst and Mike Bell say this article was published which I doubt. I would like to see the original 1912 article. Dan please show me where I can see this original article and the receipt for gold watch.

Ghosttown Bob

Jerry, I don't have a problem that different family members have different perceptions or opinions. That is how it should be. What is disconcerting is when it is presented or intimated that the families are presenting a united and unanimous front when in actuality the family is not.

A C

"Then there are the impersonators, like William T. Phillips, or the pranksters, like Butch's brother Dan, who WAS SAID to have joked around that he was Butch." Words of wisdom: dbuck!

In the last month I have had the pleasure of becoming friends with the above mentioned Dan Parker's grandson. I have not met him (so this may only be reportedly said) but we have spoken on the phone and have exchanged some emails. A quiet, sincere gentleman. I wish I could share with all of you his comments and thoughts on our "in house expert", dbuck. That won't happen here. You can imagine what he had to say.

Isn't it a real shame, that someone like Mr. Parker, has no desire to become involved, when he would (like many others) be subjected to buck. As we all know, there have been a number of people who could share "real factual" family stories. Buck has denied us this, with his know-all arrogance.

I am glad my friend, Mr. Parker, will not allow himself to join that group.

That is quite an accomplishment Mr. Buck. Be proud, it's your only one!

A C

Jerry Nickle

This may seem unusual to some but I quite enjoy Dan Buck and Ghost Town Bob. They are not going to intimidate or discourage me. I know this subject better than they do and I get pleasure when I trump them.

Gaylen Robison

Hi Sheri. You are very close. Harry Alonzo Longabaugh (AKA William Henry Long) was born Feb. 1867. Luzernia Allred Morrell Long was born April 27, 1857. Ten years difference and she was thirty eight when their first daughter was born. Apparently it was a marriage of convenience. For him, it was the perfect hideout. For her, she was a widow with children and no money. If it wasn't for him the whole family would have starved. The whole time he was gone she had money and purchased property with cash. When he finally came home, he stayed home. If we had all the details now, somebody could write the perfect romance story.

Anonymous

"Dan
Please use words this cowboy can understand without using a dictionary."

It has been said, "if you blow enough smoke, it will take some time before anyone discovers--there isn't much fire under the smoke".

Sheri

Gaylen:

You say "Luzernia Allred Morrell Long was born April 27, 1857". Why does her grave marker say 1854? I can understand Harry/William changing his birth date, but not Luzernia.

Gaylen Robison

Sheri:
I don't think Luzernia changed her birth date. There are genealogy records of the same person that has different dates. I'm assuming somebody made an error. I really made an error when I didn't ask my grandma more questions about her parents before she died. I never thought it would come to this. I'm glad it did.
I appreciate the questions.

Sheri

Thanks Gaylen!

Now one more question to anyone out there that has a constructive answer...I read "Digging up Butch and Sundance" a long time ago, and know that Sundance's brother Harvey was exhumed to get a mtDNA sample to compare to the body exhumed in South America. I'm sure someone has Harvey's mtDNA profile that could be compared to to that of William Long. Why isn't that being made available so that we can put all this to rest one way or another?

Horse Creek Cowboy

Snow and ice fog. Out of boredom, looked in again.
Nothing has changed except for the comments relating to handwriting. Sundance was literate. Had a library card in Pennsylvania, wrote his family from South America. Jerry continues to dismiss any comments contrary to his preconceived conclusion. Dan is a glutton for punishment.

When the forensic examination was made of Long's skeleton, what was his indicated height? Has anybody bothered to do a computerized overlay of Long and Sundance to triangulate the distance between eyes, nose, ears, mouth, etc., i.e. look at the differences rather than the similarities.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments