Comments about ‘Was Duchesne farmer the Sundance Kid?’

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Published: Tuesday, Feb. 17 2009 12:00 a.m. MST

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Ghosttown Bob

Queen Ann: With all due respect I am not a spokesman or a defender of Dan Buck. I have never personally spoken with him, and other that what has been on these boards have never exchanged anything with him. I did once write an email to him which he did not answer. Actually I disagree with several of his theories. Personally I found the book the he and his wife wrote difficult to read, and lacking in proper documentation. It read more like a travel log, jumping from one subject to another than historical research. However Dan's other articles are much better written and documented.

Frankly, I am more of a dis-interested bystander in this whole Dan Buck vs the mob thing going on here. Have you actually gone back and read the things said about Dan? The attacks are personal. Then HCC gets on here, makes a few insightful comments, and the very first reply to him has more personal attacks: "Horse C C has described what makes for a good horse race... Get a grip HorseCC...good luck in the third grade." among others.

Anonymous

Ghosttown Bob,
Evidently Bob, you prefer the low ground, attacking rather than defending yourself. One such as yourself must avoid being baited into a defenseless position. Myself, I prefer to defend the high ground and bait my advisory into a defenseless position. As I expected, you jumped on the 1860 census, no mention of Camp Carlin, Laramie or Henry Parker. Its rather obvious, dont you think Bob, attacking the 1860 census is a diversionary tactic, employed several times by you to evade a legitimate question. To date, you have provided nothing, but census information. When I posted the factual information 11:34 a.m. Feb. 26, 2009, you then posted 9:52 p.m. Feb. 28, 2009 claiming you already knew it, B/S. You may have factual information about the Longs and Parkers now, you certainly didnt in the beginning. Youve once again proven some people just can not resist telling how smart they are and how dumb we are, every time you respond to my posts, it tells us more about you and what you really know about William Henry Long, than you realize.

Ghosttown Bob

You ask what Dan Buck's greatest accomplishment has been. Well, he has made public a wealth documentation on Robert Parker and Harry Longabaugh in South America using South American sources. Many of these have never been seen in English translation before. I realize that some of these documents Jerry and others have disputed as to their authenticity, that is still open for debate, most are, however public documents and can be verified. I might disagree with his conclusions in those documents but I don't think that Dan Buckknowingly used false documents. Dan has brought to light a part of Parker's and Longabaugh's lives that was largely unknown before.

Am I a fan of Bucks? Not necessarily, but I do respect him for what he has found.

Anonymous

Ghosttown Bob,
You seem to be allergic to criticism. Not wanting to cause you to blow a fuse, I agree, its time to move on.
I must say, I certainly have enjoyed our exchange, although, you provided nothing useful or factual in proving whether William Long and William Henry Long were one and the same. Your probably a decent fellow.

Jerry Nickle

This Saturday March 7, with out camera, we are going to Alma New Mexico where Butch had a salon and worked at the nearby W S ranch. We are then going to Frisco New Mexico. It was forty miles from Frisco that Pinkerton detective Charlie Siringo discovered Butch spent the winter of 1900-1901. Butch was here on Feb 4, 1901 not in New York City buying a beautiful gold watch for Etta. We will go through Wilcox Arizona and try and find where Pinkerton informant Blake Graham met Butch In May 1901. Maybe there is a historical marker there. We will travel through Globe Arizona where Butch went after he met Graham. After leaving Globe Butch went north and met up with Sundance and the gang robbed the train at Wagner Montana on July 3, 1901.

It has been falsely reported Butch was in Argentina during this time.

a non a mouse

"Am I a fan of Bucks? Not necessarily, but I do respect him for what he has found.", says GTB.

If I understand you correctly, Mr. GTB, Mr. Buck collects newspapers, he also apparently keeps records of what some relatives of our "Outlaw" friends have "reportedly" said. (THAT MEANS THEY MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE ACTUALLY EVER SAID IT) He also keeps very accurate records of his (claimed) phone interviews, as has been shown, with, was it Mrs. Charter. Last, but not least (this is what probably elavated him to the level of "foremost authority"), he was able to remove the remains of Mr. Zimmer, in his fabled trek to SO. Am., where he was successful. Now I got it.

Oh GTB, did you mean to address his "tactics" with those that might not agree with him, or you might deal with that at a later time.

It would seem to some, these comments have nothing to do with Mr. Buck's personal life, they appear to be directed at what he has done as a (professional?) historian, publishing material for sale to the public.

A N A M

Jerry Nickle

It cannot be denied Dan Buck did make some very important contributions. We that are interested in this subject should realize he is a very important part of this discussion. Maybe the day will come when we, including Dan Buck, can forget the past differences and move on.

Ghosttown Bob

Well said, Jerry.

Thanks

Anonymous

We quote the GTB. "I feel bad that Horse Creek Cowboy was chased off this comment board like Dan Buck. I found HCC's comments some of the more insightful that I have seen. He is obviously informed. I, for one would like to hear more of what he has to say."

HCC. On a previous blog out of a total of 275 posts, Mr. Buck posted 43 times, he belittled, made fun of and assailed anyone and everyone, who dared an opinion. He then continually referred to his numerous web sites, where he belittles, makes fun of and assails everyone. What goes around, comes around.

Mr. GTB, Are the above comments the ones you are referring too, that you would like to see more of?

Jerry Nickle

Dan Buck made some important contributions yes but the three 1901 Argentina documents and the Feb 4, 1901 receipt for the gold watch hurt his credibility. He made some other South American discoveries that have benefited but he should understand he is not the leading expert on the subject. He needs an attitude adjustment.
I am the first person to realize Butch did not go to Argentina in 1901. Every writer since Charles Kelly including Dan Buck believed he did. Should Dan Buck now relinquish the leading expert title to me?

Jerry Nickle

GTB
If Anonymous had not been in my corner you would have beat me to death with your army deserter. I dont have the ability to do genealogy research like you do. The best way to handle you and Dan Bucks criticism is know the subject better than you two do. We are doing pretty well.

Anonymous

Someone said, "Dan Buck needs an attitude adjustment." A more astute diagnosis has never been made.

Now would anyone care to venture (roughly) when this "adjustment" will take place?

Ghosttown Bob

Anon I was referring to Horse Creek Cowboy, not Dan Buck. Why did your comments always revert back to Buck? Do you feel that the only way your theory can succeed is by completely discrediting Buck? If you want to discredit Dan's research, discredit his research, don't just sit and trade insults with him, it will get you nowhere. It just makes you all look bad.

Have you gone back and really looked at Buck's comments and what others have said about him? It looks to me like you all have been rolling around in the mud and are all in need of a good shower.

Maybe with spring approaching the rains will come and wash you all clean.

Ghosttown Bob

Jerry
Well you do have the advantage of having a full time researcher on your side. Since I have a life, I don't ever spend more that a half hour a day or so on this. I am blessed however by having access to a plethora of sources. Anon. has little or no idea of how much I have collected. We could debate for a year and not run out of material. I suspect, though, that it has been more fun for me than it has been for her.

I know with the construction business down you must have a lot of extra time on your hands and you can direct your resources to your project. I just hope that you realize that in the end it will all be in vain. With what little you have to go on, without DNA evidence your hoped for "peer review" will never materialize. The critics will eat you alive.

Pier: "Sitting on the dock of the bay. . . wasting time hmmm . . . wasting time." (Otis Redding)

Ghosttown Bob

Jerry
You said: "Dan Buck made some important contributions yes but the three 1901 Argentina documents and the Feb 4, 1901 receipt for the gold watch hurt his credibility."

I think this is an important area of inquiry that needs to be followed up on. Not to necessarily discredit Dan, but to find the truth. It should be made the subject of honest historical inquiry. As for Dan Buck or you being the leading authority. That is not decided by either you or him, but by others as you present your findings and gain credibility. Jerry, I don't intend for this to be insulting or derogatory, but as advice, please, if you go about this in the wrong way you will just be seen as another crackpot, documentary and all.

Anonymous

"It looks to me like you all have been rolling around in the mud and are all in need of a good shower." Mr. GTB sayeth.

Then he follows with: Pier: "Sitting on the dock of the bay. . . wasting time hmmm . . . wasting time." (Otis Redding)

Do we see a "follow the leader" pattern here? You say others need a cleansing shower to remove the mud, then you choose to point out the spelling error by Mr. Nickle. Real class.

Be sure and use soap GTB Iver.

Jerry Nickle


GTB
I Completely agree with you. I hope we can all move forward together and discuss or differences in friendly terms. I dont have all the answers, but maybe I can contribute something. Lets have fun not a war of words.

We are off to Alma tomorrow to take a few pictures and see if we can find the WS ranch. I am going to take this newspaper article and use it to become squinted with the locals there. I am hoping they will show us the area. When I get back I will report what found here.

Ghosttown Bob

Thanks Jerry, I think there is much that we can discuss in a fruitful way that will help everyone arrive at the truth. Sorry about the Pier/Peer allusion - I was using it to prove a point.

Anon. This is a good example of what I have been talking about here. I made a good-natured jab. You then jumped all over it and was offended when no offense was intended. You expect from others what you do not expect from yourself. You seem to take yourself too seriously. I seem to remember that when I left the Ft. off of Ft. Laramie, you jumped all over it trying to prove your point. You could have just asked did you mean Laramie, or Ft. Laramie? Then the discussion could have continued. Instead it cut off any chance of a good discussion.

Anonymous, I feel no ill will towards you or any of Jerry's other supporters. I may think you are dead wrong however.

By the way I use Irish Spring, what do you use??

Anonymous

Ghosttown Bob
You would have been better served having a full time researcher. Your access to a plethora of sources, failed you miserable. Ft. D.A. Russell, near Laramie, Wyo.???
Henry Parker in 1880 was working as a Freighter and wagon master, hauling freight out from Laramie.??? 18th Infantry was transferred from Northern Montana to Ft. Leavenworth Kansas. Their route took them through Laramie, Wyo. and Ft. D.A. Russell to the railroad.??? Etc. Etc. Etc. Revision to my last post 10:49 a.m. March 5, 2009,
you provided nothing useful or factual, period. No doubt probably a slipmouth.

Anonymous

Mr. GTB, do you have a clue as to how many different folk have posted on this babble board, under "anon"? This "one" was unaware of your "Ft" Laramie comment. I have tried to avoid your "information", which you have been "jabbing" Jerry with. Some feel your "jabbing" had the sole purpose of showing how wrong Jerry is with his claim. Over and over.

You have put a lot of effort into showing how wrong Jerry is. Wrong he may be. But don't you feel the entire hand should be dealt, before you grab the pot?

If you think "soap" will wash off your defending one who has made a career of bad-mouthing those who disagree with him, may I suggest "lye" soap.

There have been numerous comments made, suggesting you give Jerry a chance. If he is wrong, the facts will determine it, not you or Buck. As has been shown, Buck has proven something. What he is, what he knows and what he doesn't know. Why not allow Jerry the same courtesy? That is all I ask.

If you locate the correct Ft. Lar "anom", jab him. Better wait for DNA though.

A Non

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