Deseret News | Reader comments: Activists calling for uprisings for causes

Reader comments
Activists calling for uprisings for causes

James Hovland | 11:45 p.m. Feb. 14, 2009

It's not always easy to get someone to walk a mile in your shoes. As we have recently learned, sometimes the shoe needs to be thrown.

Thus, the Israel/Palestine conflict should to be put into perspective. What if Britain had agreed to give half of California to the Zionists for them to establish a "Jewish State"? Take note that prior to UN involvement the Zionist's stated goal included all of California plus Nevada. Would Californians have agreed to the UN partitioning their land even if Nevada got to keep theirs? What if we didn't and the Zionists took it by force anyway? What if when we resisted we were bombed by an advanced military, and then labeled as "terrorists" for fighting back? What if the world sat back and just let it happen? The high mountain desert where I am would be our occupied West Bank, and LA our war torn Gaza strip. How would you explain sanctions and occupation to your kids? What if a nation like America funded and supported it? How do you explain that? What about the displaced people from San Fransisco, Sacramento, etc, do they ever get to go home?

Re: James Hovland | 12:44 a.m. Feb. 15, 2009

Wow. Quite possibly the worst analogy you could've come up with. Basically every detail of your analogy was twisted to make it look like Israel is completly unjustified. You're not comparing apples to oranges, you're comparing apples to beer bottles.

Here, let's continue your analogy to improve it: let's assume that Zionists have been returning to California for centuries, have been upstanding citizens and have improved the business, agriculture and resources of the land to make the area relevant again. Let's also pretend now that the remaining California 'natives' refuse to work and are living off the gov't, while the hard-working Zionists now pay for many of the California natives' homes. But if that isn't enough, the California 'natives' treat the Zionists like scum, bully them individually, commit acts of murder and terrorism to the point that if it were happening anywhere else in the world, a nation would be considered extremely foolish to not retaliate, and that the Zionists people were extremely upset with their leaders that their safety wasn't being assured. And the int'l community somehow sympathizes with the terrorists. I'm out of room...

Dave | 1:00 a.m. Feb. 15, 2009

They clearly know what we fear the most when they say their strategy is to "not leave"...talk about the tactics of terror!

Comments continue below

Terrorists in the USA | 7:07 a.m. Feb. 15, 2009

The actions that the conferance participants advocate are terror and fascism.

The true face of the left is, once more, revealed.

Dave | 7:50 a.m. Feb. 15, 2009

A handfull of activists get together to pat each other on the back, and the think they have tons of public support. In fact the public thinks they are just a bunch of kooks.

Dayne Goodwin | 7:55 a.m. Feb. 15, 2009

We've been winning our way for decades by wearing you people down using these strategies. We know you are too caught up in your own Utah lifestyle to catch on.

Anonymous | 7:57 a.m. Feb. 15, 2009

So if you don't get your way, if the will of the people, the voters, goes against you--you get violent? You some how force the world to do your bidding? Get these fascist/communist/gestapo types off our planet. They disgust me, frighten me, and threaten our freedom. Plus, anything Rocky Andersen is involved with, you can be assured is wrong, bad, and should be avoided.

Matthew | 8:25 a.m. Feb. 15, 2009

If these kinds of people have their way, freedom of choice for individuals will become meaningless. I too think they're a bunch of kooks who just want to feel important. The actual change that is effected isn't as important as the power they feel in accomplishing it. If people say they're pro-palestinian and pro-women's rights, their opinions aren't worth listening to.

Mob Rule | 9:38 a.m. Feb. 15, 2009

Some folks just have too much idle time in their lives. Throughout history the youth of the world have needed some cause to rebel against. I guess it is just human nature.

Even our country's 60s radicals, for the most part, eventually symbolically laid down their idealogical weapons and conformed to the reality of the norms of society. Also mommy and daddy stopped funding their lifestyles after college - that makes a big difference too.

To the youth, don't take yourselves so seriously, this too shall pass.

Make love - not war!

Get a job ... | 11:11 a.m. Feb. 15, 2009

and get a clue. Real work takes real work. Recent protesting takes real hallucinating -- like global warming, population explosions and change-you-can- believe-in. Eventually real people grow out of the childish nightmares and face reality. Focus on the real solutions -- increase productivity, decrease government. Reward productivity, not welfare. Decrease taxes and increase charity. Life gets better.

re: Get a job... | 11:33 a.m. Feb. 15, 2009

well said my friend!

Just Imagine | 12:00 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

If all of us who disagreed with Obama advocated this. Can you imagine the outrage by these people? They would tell us were being unreasonalbe and the people voted and we need to live with it. We need to go along with program. Hmmm...sounds like a double standard to me. I guess that the sooner I realize that all their values are right and my morals are wrong the better off I'll be.

Nick | 1:25 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

The Panel that I attended was good I especially enjoyed the story of Long Island, and what Paul Said on coalitions , sorry I missed out on the Strategy Session, But I would raise my hand If I were there. Keep up the good work!!
Cheers Nick

Laguna Niguel Ute | 1:30 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

Why does any news organization pay so much attention to 150 goof balls? The radical left will never change. They have their man in Washington giving billions away and calling it a stimulus program with more on the way.

From now on just understand that if the meeting is being held at the U and Rocky Anderson is in attendance you can write the entire matter off as a socialist, communist event. Rocky really needs to see a good doctor.

rsp | 1:38 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

Have an "uprising" in Sandy 'cause I got somethin' fer ya!

Aggie | 2:28 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

I went to college with one of those career activists. Some of the time Dayne stood up for real progress, and often we admired him for taking an unpopular stand.
BUT, while we supported his right to his stand, he never expressed gratitude to live where we all can express our differences peacefully.
He only showed contempt, took every advantage he could, and criticized the majority on every issue. We were always wrong, and we got tired of him. Kinda like Rah-rah-Rocky?

Jon | 2:48 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

A few comments on the commenters...some her are already using the offensive and discredited tactic by calling names when they have no effective argument to make...For example, since when is civil disobedience "terrorism" or "fascism." It is neither so you must assume these commenters are either ill informed or dishonest.Other epithets hurled include "violent" "kooks" with "too much idle time in their lives." Of course these little word games are simply silly attempts attempts to paint people whose ideas you commenters are afraid of as so outside the mainstream that they have nothing to offer society. That is where these alleged thinkers are wrong. Ideas that start off as "fringe" often become accepted by the mainstream in future generations ie the labor movement, civil rights, peace, environmental movement. Remember Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Cesar Chavez, and Martin Luther. They were referred to as the kooks of their day. MLK was accused of being a communist. None who are reading these comments should fall for the trickery of those who selfishly try to hold back progressive ideas that if adopted will help protect future generations from the consequences of ecological catastrophe.

Enough already | 2:52 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

Big deal. 150 people are having an "uprising"???

Oh wow I'm glad that made the news. Guaranteed 90% of the 150 either have noise rings, VW Buses, Marijuana stickers, or dread locks. Makes me want to do the exact opposite of whatever these nutcakes are protesting for.

Hans G Ehrbar | 3:11 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

Needless to say, the person signing his name as Dayne Goodwin above was not "the" Dayne Goodwin who has been tirelessly promoting social causes for many years, and who organized the conference together with a hard working crew of activists of all ages. We don't intend to "wear down" anyone. Our goal is to pass on to future generations a hospitable planet and a fair social order which allows everyone to flourish.

Anon2 | 3:21 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

I appreciated the comments by Jon and the historical examples used. While I might disagree with him about some of the tactics used by the groups mentioned in the article I appreciate his focus on ideas versus name calling. I do not believe that a minority has the right to bully others into submission with their tactics or to hijack our democratic systems when they believe they are misled. Real progress invovles real respect, even for a majority whose views we might disagree with. I believe that we live in a very different world thanks to people like MLK, and Ghandi. A world where we can work through our democratic systems to make a differnce. At our last mass meeting to choose delegates for our precinct's poliltical representatives we had about 26 out of 1000 registered voters from our partie's precinct show up. 150 people may not be a lot, but 14 people in our precinct could have elected anyone they wanted.

Shaybay | 3:21 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

I think it is interesting that we no longer hear about poverty and hunger. Some think global warming is the issue because eventually there is no globe to live on so hey....who needs to fight for poverty, hunger, HIV/AIDS, housing, gangs, joblessness, UNFAIR barriers to health care....then let's just forget all that (oh yeah and killing babies too) and grow vegetables and stop driving cars and start using renewable energy and then we won't be hungry and poor anymore. Whose issue is it? What about the word no one will utter here...God!!! The God of the Bible. ahhh forget that and worship the Creation instead of the Creator. See where that ends up.

RE: Jon | 3:27 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

Do a little research,

Chavez was nothing but a murder and a thug, someone who was only interest was was in warring and power, a communist trying impose his will, his ideology by force,

he took away the freedom and the lives of the people of cuba then went to south america to it someone else,

he should NEVER be mentioned in the same company of those other men,

especially Gandhi and Martin Luther,

mlk was vastly over-credited, outside his speech-giving and marching in front of parades or protests, he didn't seem to have much character.

Trump | 3:40 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

There is an urgent need for drastic change and we all should get behind the movement for better representation, better government and stronger regulation, organized labor, credit unions, cooperatives, and other grass root community programs to help return power to the people and change the ruling class in america and the world. Big international corporate business and corrupt politicans are posioning and killing people all over the world.

30 people. . . Wow! | 3:42 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

Don't their numbers, while not conclusive, tell us something?

jon | 4:07 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

There you go again. Another failure of right wing thinking is what "enough already" demonstrates ie. stereotyping. Lets see, so supposedly since these people (the protesters) have piercings in the "wrong" places and are probably Black Rastafarians traveling in God Forbid VW (read hippie) buses anything they say is discounted by the way they supposedly might look? Next time you get the urge to stereotype protesters go down and look around and see who shows up. Most likely it will look pretty much like a cross section of America. The last protest I went to had ministers, priests, politicians in suits, an ex-green beret officer in uniform and maybe even a few pierced noses...oh flip, I think even one girl with a cute tatoo on her ankle was allowed to march along with the suits. Shameless! This is what happens when the left that "hates America" shows up on the streets. So do the opposite of "nutcakes" and start a campaign to turn the Arctic into both an oil field and a Caribbean resort. All my best to 'ya ;)

Clem | 4:11 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

Enough Already is correct. People must respect the laws of America if they are going to live here. If the radicals won't honor the law, they should get out.

Lets Uprise | 4:15 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

Pretty soon, there will be plenty of uprisings. Problem is, the uprising may not be what these activists think.

As Obama causes hyperinflation, and people begin to truly mourn, they will remember today as part of the glory days-and the people will not be happy.

The majority of Americans will become economic slaves. Then will come the proper exercise of second amendment rights against a tyrannical government.

Moral of the story?
Get out of debt, and get some food storage.
Oh yea, and keep your guns handy.

Mike | 6:53 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

Why in a time of economic turmoil, are we focusing on the so called "climate crisis" when we have real many far more important issues, like AIDS, Poverty, Jobs? Those should be our focus. For those who would disagree there are a few words you should ask Mr. Gore about at his next speech: The Historical Glacio-Eustatic Curve/Flux, Transgressive and regressive sediment depositional sequences. Milankovitch cycles, Climate is driven by many complex variables and there are journals filled with evidence that warming and cooling have occurred countless times over the history of the earth. The first real thermometers were created in the 1600s, Accurate records of short time frame climatic variation have only really been around in this century. To state that the warming trend in the climate is representative of the future and not a largely nature driven cycle cannot be made at this time with the data available; to state otherwise is making huge scientific leaps to conclusions. In a time of far more pertinent social issues, for the Democratic Party to use this "crisis" as a catalyst for votes is shameful.
Maybe its used as a distraction to keep real issues from extensive debate.

RE: Trump | 7:24 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

No question that capitalism has its flaws, but the socialism you're suggesting has been failed again and again and again throughout the world and throughout history. Learn your history and you will also conclude that THAT is NOT the kind of change we need or should believe in.

Can you name any socialist country that has risen to greatness and created world-leading prosperity for its citizens? (Don't try China, it's the capitalism that's succeeding there, that's finally rescuing their economy from communist/socialist ruin)

If you want to have our standard of living drop off precipitously, let's just do what Europe has done and move further and further away from the true capitalism that has brought us to where we are.

Oh yeah... Obama is already taking us in that direction.

Scary | 9:42 p.m. Feb. 15, 2009

This truly sounds scary.

Dick of the NW | 12:21 a.m. Feb. 16, 2009

Remember folks, the left use the tool of equivalency; attempting to show items being equal when in fact they are not. Recommend for your reading "Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg. It explains how liberal fascism came to America. In this Country we now have the perfect strom brewing. We have the politics of personality in BHO; Main stream media doesn't report they just fawn; over 60 million people think BHO is a messiah and only valuable to him in so as they become foder for his machine. The stimulus will only enslave them to become constituents of the govt. trough. The left states tax cuts crated the financial problem when in fact it was the housing bill signed by Clinton which started the US down the slope into the financial mess caused by Freddie & Fannie. F & F spread the poison throught the financial industry. If you expect the truth don't look to BHO. He is just a snake oil pedler. He is bright and charming. His words disarm so watch your back and pocket book.

RE: Jon | 2:05 a.m. Feb. 16, 2009

I wanted to apologize,

for some reason I was mixing up Che Gueverra with Ceasar Chavez,

MY mistake.

From what read of he seemd him he was an okay guy.

I although I think Unions are and were beneficial on the upstart,

unfortunately they out grow the workers they represent,

and become something they were not intended be, with theitr big shiny buildings and armies of lawyers, the top people become CEOS of a sort, etc,

they end up becoming a business unto themselves.

Jenn | 1:09 p.m. Feb. 16, 2009

There wouldn't need to be an uprising if the politicians, especially in the UT legislature, believed in things like SCIENCE. Economics, hunger, and health issues are all important, but the bottom line is that we need a livable planet for any of that to matter. The coming climate changes could be truly cataclysmic, is that what you want for your kids?

Mona Robinson | 9:36 a.m. Feb. 17, 2009

I was a participant at this conference, i can attest that no one had nose (noise) rings, there were normal people, including a group of young mormon activists there, I know crazy huh? The real point of everything activists do is to try to point out another side to the stories we read about in the paper or hear about on the news. There has to be a time when we as a population stop accepting what we are told as truth and do research by hearing all sides of the story, on our own. We need to care as a population about our environment, about the real reasons for immigration (Are we not all immigrants?) What about being treated fair in your workplace? Affordable health insurance? The right to marry whomever we want to?

Ennis | 11:25 a.m. Feb. 17, 2009

In a democratic society, dissenting voices are healthy. I approve of and support healthy debate on any issue and believe that dialogue can lead to understanding, therefore I support the decision of the U of U to host such a panel discussion and I support those who participated, even though I may not agree with many of their positions. I am concerned, however, when I see that dialogue has devolved into a call for civil disorder and its concomitant chaos. According to the reporter on scene, of the 150 people attending the discussion, 16 (or more than 10%) raised their hand when asked if they would be willing to be arrested for their beliefs. Exactly what law do they intend to break to get arrested? Does not a meeting where 16 people agree together they are wiling to break public law constitute the seeds of conspiracy as well as anarchy? It is very difficult for reasonable people to support the rhetoric of those who willingly brand themselves as criminals and anarchists.

Jon | 3:54 p.m. Feb. 17, 2009

Ennis makes an interesting point by raising the question about what is "good" dissent and what is "bad dissent" and where we all decide to draw our ethical lines. Also, thanks to the commenter on my last post for realizing that Cesar Chavez was quite unlike Che Gueverra. That actually emphasizes Ennis' point about how one dissents. Gueverra used violence like our founding fathers(he was a revolutionary or criminal depending upon who is judging) while Ghandi and King broke the law but did it peacefully although they were attacked violently. They were also considered outlaws or criminals at the time because they broke the law. That is often where the debate over civil disobedience begins. As Ennis asks: "...what law do they intend to break?" In my opinion another important question is: "How do they intend to break it?" DeChristopher didn't hit anyone with his raised paddle at the BLM auction but he brought the Bush government to a halt with a clever albeit illegal act. Still I think it is exaggeration to compare breaking a law to anarchy. Also, engaging in conspiracy takes a bit more than raising one's hand, thankfully.

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