Comments about ‘Institute goes to bat for marriage’

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Published: Friday, Feb. 6 2009 12:34 a.m. MST

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@svoboda

and your observable evidence that any of your beliefs are true is? We should follow your unsubstantial beliefs why? Thanks but I will stick with the facts based in the observable world and those fact just dont support your vitriol.

unicorns and green grass

"Svoboda," your equating your beliefs about right and wrong based on no evidence to an observable fact like the sky being blue, why? I could just as easily claim that unicorns are real just like the grass is green it does not mean anything other then of course that I seem to think erroneous comparisons make for good arguments, is that what you think?

Albemarle

The question of same-sex marriage isn't about whether homosexuals should marry. It is about whether Christians, Muslims, and Jews should give up their freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and parental rights so that homosexuals can marry.

Our laws come from our "world view." Both world views (God's vs. liberal humanist secular progressives') can't inform our laws, as they are directly opposed to each other.

Hence, the "culture war," which is likely to escalate into a civil war.

Bill F.

"If you love a religion and believe in it, no one can take that from you as well." Actually they can and will. If not in this life most certainly in the next. This moral relativism that you push is the scourge of our day and you would like it enforced by the courts

yeah.

just so everyone is clear there are THOUSANDS of different opinions WITHIN the predominant church here, and utah is growing faster than most states, what will you do when you can't throw words around like, "our predominant church lets us be the hate-filled people we are".

Robert Oh

Protecting Families & Children

What we really need is a law prohibiting children and teenagers from being alone in closed room with a middle-aged man asking them about their sexual thoughts and behavior.

What are parents thinking?

Interesting use of the word hate

Hate, as defined by the dictionary is to "dislike intensely or passionately" and although there are other similar definitions, I can see absolutely no place where it says that denial of a "right" is hatred. I don't hate you because you choose homosexuality. I don't believe that your choice of sexuality gives you certain rights.

That isn't hatred. You, like I, have a choice. Make it. The hatred that is spewing seems more to be coming from that side than going to that side of the argument.

Anonymous

To the 10:07 poster who wrote:
"I will stick with the facts based in the observable world"

If that is your standard consider this. Darwin proposed evolution as nature's way of improving the species. Those who do not engage in natural procreation between male and female, base on Darwinism, would be nature's attempt to weed out a undesirable trait in that particular species.

That is part of the observable world based on a notable scientist, whose theories are accepted exceptionally well.

I think we can all draw the conclusion from Darwinism that a homosexual life style is not approved by nature. Thus the description "unnatural".

LDS4gaymarriage.org

"Good for you. My family and I are so grateful for others who stand up for marriage as God intended it to be..."

Isn't that what the traditional Christians said when Congress outlawed polygamy? We sure screamed and hollered about discrimination then, but now it is us LDS who are now the persecutors rather than being the persecuted.

D&C 134:4 says that believers are in compliance with God.."unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others.."

Liken this quote unto Civil Same-Sex Marriage -

"Although the boundaries of individual moral rights are complex and controversial, as we have seen, vague notions of public interest cannot be relied upon in a utilitarian sense to extinguish individual rights.. While the majority of the community may find polygamous marriage relationships repugnant, repugnancy unassociated with entitlement claims cannot invalidate the rights of believers to practice polygamy.." (Mormonism, Philosophical Liberalism, and the Constitution by R. Collin Mangrum, BYU Studies, vol. 27 (1987), Number 3 - Summer 1987 131.)

Why are we being hypocritical and violating our own doctrine?

@10:49 AM

Really you want to try this same tired and false argument all over again? how many times do you have to be told the same thing? People try this same argument on every thread about homosexuality. I will say this once homosexuality is a normal part of nature observed throughout nature not just humans. If homosexuality was part of the evolutionary process to eradicate an unwanted trait it would have done so millions of years ago. Please actually study science before trying to use it to support lame comments. Please also understand when I ignore your next post it is simply because I refuse to engage in this lame discussion yet again.

Kevin

@Svoboda | 9:50 a.m. Feb. 6, 2009

"Why does the GLTB community think that those who espouse something virtous, but at odds with their stand - then that is wrong, hateful, mean spirited?"

I'll try to answer that question.

I'm seeing someone new. He has a 6 year old boy, who he adopted a few years ago because, like most human beings, wanted to be dad and have a family.

If he and I were to become serious, there are numerous obstacles we'd face.

1. If we moved in together as homosexuals, under Utah law, he could lose custody of his child.

2. There's no legal construct I'm aware of that would allow me to also become a parent to the boy. If something happened to his dad, the child would go to the state.

3. All of the benefits of legal marriage in addition to those I've mentioned would not be available. You've heard the laundry list of benefits, so I won't rehash.

All I want is to have a family. We're going to have to move to Canada to live free. That's what you want.

LDS4gaymarriage.org

Wayneo - "My concern is deception in the 'active' gay community. They say they only want equality...they're not equal. A man is not a woman and the relationship is not the same."

LDS - If a traditional couple is unable or unwilling to have kids, how is their marriage substantly different than a same-sex marriage? How is the former an asset to society while the latter is a drain on society?
Gay families have kids. By refusing to allow their "parents' to marry, you are preventing those kids from getting the legal benefits that they need...probably need more than the kids of traditional marriages. There is no objective reason to deny gays marriage. We LDS are being hypocritical to our own history and to our own scriptures. How sad!

LDS4gaymarriage.org

Albemarle - "The question of same-sex marriage isn't about whether homosexuals should marry. It is about whether Christians, Muslims, and Jews should give up their freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and parental rights so that homosexuals can marry."
LDS - How are you giving up freedom of religion if gays are allowed to marry? Will we be forced to give up a doctrine or be barred from attending church, reading the scriptures or praying? NO!!
Will you be barred from proclaiming the gospel? NO!!
What parental rights will you lose? This I gotta hear.

LDS4gaymarriage.org

Interesting - "Hate, as defined by the dictionary is to "dislike intensely or passionately" and although there are other similar definitions, I can see absolutely no place where it says that denial of a "right" is hatred."

Don't look in the dictionary...look in the D&C. 134:4 denounces those who use their religious opinions as justification to infringe upon the RIGHTS and liberties of others. Obey the sustained word of God.

RE From California

your comment "Same sex marriage is in the same category as pedophilia, abuse, sex addiction, and infedility."

In all my days I have never heard such a ridiculous and uneducated comment. I have seen some ignorance in my day but this one is right at the top. Let me explain something. Same sex partnership or marriage is a joint decision by two adults who are in agreement to share their lives consensually. Liberties aren't taken away, there is caring and agreement. Pedophilia/abuse is about an adult stealing the rights, the innocence of a child, raping them or beating them, threatening them and creating major phsychological devastation, physical pain, and imprinting their sickness on a CHILD. Do you even understand the difference between rape and consensual sex? Infidelity is vowing to be loyal to a partner then going behind their back, giving away your body and love to another person. Your hatred has totally blinded you rational thinking. Would you prefer to have sex with your wife or husband or be sent to prison and repeatedly raped??? I can't believe anyone in this world could be so totally and completely out of touch with reality.

Bert

@10:49

You should take an advanced course in logic. My parents were straight. Why am I gay?

Kudos to

Vince,

I know it is tiring to continue trying to be reasonable in advocating for the equality and civil rights of ALL Americans, regardless of their religious (or sexual orientation) beliefs. So I just want to encourage you to keep it up. You do a great job and I am proud of you. You are on the side of right and goodness, and we will prevail someday.

Plubius

The great human experiment proves that when traditional family is center, societies progress. When family frays, crime, vice, and violence blossoms.

Who committed the violence (physical and economic) during the Prop 8 events? The gays. From which segments of society do the vast majority of criminals emanate? Broken families.

Anomalies can not mask the proven powerful track record of traditional family. Gay marriage, broken families, casual co-habitators are not stable units upon which society makes progress, they are counterfeits that destroy the greatest potential, happiness and satisfaction in the lives of those hurt by them or caught up in them.

Upholding pillars of stability means drawing lines against those who so hate themselves that they must destroy the happiness of others to feel better.

Adams said only a moral and religious people could handle this much freedom.

When gays use that freedom to destroy the very foundation of their freedom, our national demise will end where all others have ended--cultural, economic, spiritual dust. It's too bad such self-destructive trends don't bear fruit faster so that those who cause such destruction can live long enough to see the end points of their blind foolishness.

@Kevin

While I respect and appreciate your willingness to be such a strong advocate for reality, I would not waste your breath trying to have the same conversation with these people they really do not care about getting truthful answers or trying to understand they just want to try to convince themselves they are right despite reality, nothing the claim has not been claimed and refuted a thousand times before on these thread.

Milo Johnson

I am against gay marriage because the prophet said to be. And yes, if the prophet said to go jump off a bridge, I would. I don't understand every reason we are given certain commandments. But I accept the prophet as the spokesperson of God on earth and that's that. You "LDS for gay marriage" people are not following the prophet plain and simple.

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