Comments about ‘Clergy seek delay in some budget cuts’

Who is this or any clergy to tell lawmakers how to spend taxes and adjust budgets? In times likes these where business has destroyed our economy and put them selves out of business this clergy should make his plea to business moguls. Everyone is suffering and the budget has to take some hard line cuts, especially in social programs and welfare programs. Sympathy is the clergies job, trying to act as politician is not. The churches have a vast amount of wealth available to them, use it to help those in real need. Stop asking government to be public benefactors and employers for the poor. The clergy has other means at their disposal to help those in need, we need hard line cuts in government spending. Government welfare is never a substitute for jobs and individual independence. Being a proud american means doing your share of sacrifices to help this country, not to become a burden and delay its recovery. Health care and welfare is not government responsibilty and its time the public and illegals learn that. Budget cuts cannot be delayed and requires immediate actions regardless of any federal spending. Being an american means sacrificing and always has.

In some respects I agree with "to gov't dependents" but the reality is that the business community (which did cause this mess with alot of help from a gov't looking the other way) cannot provide these services. We have to decide if we really are a Christian society or not. Jesus Christ said "inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these, ye have done it unto me". He fed the hungry, healed the sick, raised the dead. The least we can do as a society is to make sure that people don't die of a lack of insulin. Come on...

As far as Churches, well, theres a good point. There is a Church in this area (unnamed) that, if they wanted, could do ALOT more than they are currently doing to help feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. But they are busy using their excess charitable contributions erecting a shopping mall and luxory condominiums.

I am hoping some of these legislators will personally invest in my "do it yourself home surgery kits." Just because you can't afford normal healthcare doesn't mean you can't amputate your own legs. "Government dependents" used our lobotomy kit and he's doing great.

The attitude of entitlements is a major part of the problem which has created the symptoms we now face with loss of jobs, reduction of income, businesses closing their doors and bigger and bigger government. The casualties are real people who may have in many cases embraced this popular view of the role of government and care for the people or socialism because they have depended on it not seeing the end result because of their skewed vantage point. To support the continued efforts of those in government who want to save us from ourselves and promote or support the enormous stimulus package as something which will correct anything is like fixing the muffler on your car and then run the engine without any oil, in the end you will have a new muffler but you cannot go anywhere because the car will not run. The casualties I feel great sympathy for are those who have done everything in their power to be independent and new this would happen.

Well, a fair share of sacrfice. How about means testing for social security and Medi-care? If you are rich, why do you need to receive subsidized health insurance paid for by a payroll tax?

Tekakaromatagi

The "clergy" and any other citizen have not just a right but a responsibility as citizens to appleal to the legislature regarding issues about which they have strong feelings. If budget cuts have to be made, then the legislature should be careful that the cuts are in areas will not affect the poor and needy and those less able to help themselves. This should be especially true in a state like Utah that has so many Christians who profess concern for the poor and downtrodden. Ther is plenty of fat in the budget (eg. cutting out high school sports could save millions of dollars) that could be removed before we take medical care from those least able to pay for it.

It's pretty easy to be outraged when your organization (church) is tax-exempt. To fund these programs, we should tax churches before we raise taxes on individuals or business.

It's time churches started pulling their own weight. Before you say "but churches do a lot of welfare", ask yourself what is more important than creating jobs, which is what businesses do. Yet businesses pay a a boatload of taxes.

And not everything that a church does can be accurately described as welfare or educational.

I'm afraid I don't understand this story. Why not go to the church for the money for the insulin, why not walk into a doctor's office and ask for the insulin, why not go to an emergency room and get the insulin? Why not walk into a pharmacy and ask for the insulin. Why not go to the neighbors and ask for the money for the insulin? Why not go to your extended family and ask for the money? Why not sell something to get the money? I believe it would have been given by any number of people of business, if the woman had asked.

Health care is expensive by design.

The AMA limits the number of people that medical schools admit to reduce the supply and keep profits up.

Government regulations also needlessly drive costs up.

Malpractice insurance accounts for %20 of the nations health care bill. Defensive medicine adds another $20 (doctors ordering tests only because they may need it as evidence if they are sued).

If the AMA would admit all qualified students into medical school, we had tort reform, and the government went with reasonable regulations the nations health care bill could be cut by up to %50.

Send the illegal aliens back home and stop forcing emergency rooms to treat everyone and it could drop further. (Allow emergency rooms to refer non-emergency cases to an outside medical clinics. The ER is the most expensive delivery system, send those who do not require the resources of an ER to a more appropriate delivery system.)

Start healthshare organizations. These can cover a family of 4 for $225 a month. (Utah kill the only one in the state.)

Lots of options. So little intelligence.

I want to ask the clergy if they have asked the congregations to donate more to their church's welfare fund? I always thought that churches helped the poor, instead of asking the government to help the poor.

Government dependents,

"Who is this or any clergy to tell lawmakers how to spend taxes and adjust budgets?"

He is a voter and a leader for those who attend his congregation and as such he has a responsibility to speak out and to advocate for those who follow him. Failing to do so would be un-Christlike which is the position you advocate.

"Everyone is suffering and the budget has to take some hard line cuts, especially in social programs and welfare programs."

That is your personal opinion and others die because of it which makes you [a voter] a murderer and your vote the cause of their deaths. You are therefore an evil person and you cannot take your vote and decide to sever it from its consequences.

" Being a proud american means doing your share of sacrifices to help this country, not to become a burden and delay its recovery. Health care and welfare is not government responsibilty and its time the public and illegals learn that... Being an american means sacrificing and always has."

I guess American children who die should just accept that it is their duty as Americans to die so we can save.

Re: "To Gov't Dependents,"

"As far as Churches, well, theres a good point. There is a Church in this area (unnamed) that, if they wanted, could do ALOT more than they are currently doing to help feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. But they are busy using their excess charitable contributions erecting a shopping mall and luxory condominiums."

Churches would be unable to do anything else if they were to spend all of their resources on helping the poor, feeding the homeless, providing health care to their congregations and members. It would be almost impossible for any Church regardless of how wealthy and prosperous to do so. This is why this [unnamed Church] has decided to focus its efforts on helping its own members, and providing humanitarian aid to those who are victims of natural disasters.

Fast offerings are routinely used to help people. In my ward alone each year we spend close to $108,000 helping those in our ward who need financial support to pay their rent, bills and provide medical support and then that doesn't include food donations. If this holds true across Church we spend 2.7 billion a year in wards.

Lionheart,

"I'm afraid I don't understand this story. Why not go to the church for the money for the insulin, why not walk into a doctor's office and ask for the insulin, why not go to an emergency room and get the insulin? Why not walk into a pharmacy and ask for the insulin. Why not go to the neighbors and ask for the money for the insulin? Why not go to your extended family and ask for the money? Why not sell something to get the money? I believe it would have been given by any number of people of business, if the woman had asked."

That's what you think but you are wrong and I know this for a fact because my family did exactly what you said for food, clothing and an inhaler for my brother who had asthma but no one helped because it wasn't possible. You think that it is easy but it isn't. If my neighbors came and asked me for $90 I would look at them and say "I'm sorry but I can't" and if they did hundreds would be at my door.

the church you speak of donates millions of dollars inn food , clothing, medical aid etc every year. Wouldnt it be a novel idea for all churches to donate to the poor and needy and not the taxpayer.

Keep in mind that these unnamed church memebers donate a large share of their income yearly also. How many other churches can say the same.

Help is always out there. As lionheart said, ASK

Lionheart, point well taken. There is a shared responcibility that includes the person involved, family, neighbors,the church, and yes, government. One can agrue the percentages and priorities but it is still shared;. I worked in public health for decades and later I avocated for basic health care for the real needy. Often it took some work but if a person realy needed something we could put a package together to provide that health or dental care.
When one speaks of "church" one is really speaking of the people in the church not the organization. All of us (if we are able) need to pitch in just a little more during these times. I know my wife and I are doubling our fast offerings. That may not be much but if everyone did this it would make a big difference.
So for those complainers...stop complaining and do something to help. Donate money, services, or time. Everyone can do something.

My feelig is that the business leadership in our country, this includes Utah,is the one that is causing the problems. They have these absolutely astronomical wages, do little to earn them and expect their employees to take the cuts. This is not right. Democrat, republican or otherwise are overpaid. All these so-called denominations are run by over-paid men and women. The leadership of the LDS Church does not receive paychecks. Employees of the Church do. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does more for people outside of our church than any other. We not only take care of our own but have reached out world-wide to people all over the country.

These are tough times. I for one am glad I do not live in a state like California where all they can do is argue and not get a budget balanced. What Utah is trying to do is balance a budget, and they will. Balancing the budget helps all of us. Who wants to be like the pathetic Federal government with no discipline and racking up debt by the trillions? Like Reagan said in his first inaugural address: "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." And with Obama in power government is becoming even more of a problem.

Rick I still love living in California. I've only lived in my birth state Utah and here so, my opinion is skewed. I could have transferred to Utah a few years back. Why digress?

Voters are a big part of California's problem. Talk radio attacked Davis for trying to solve the budget issue. The conservative's answer was Arnold. We had a 15 billion dollar problem under a democrat and under a republican it's reaching 45 billion. Conservative call Arnold a RINO. They never accept accountability.

California can be hijacked by extremist because of the two thirds requirement. One third can shut our state down. This is Limbaughian government at its finest.

With term limits, California no longer has real political talents needed to run the world's fifth largest economy.

Will the LDS Church weigh in on this issue, or is alcohol prohibition all that matters to them?