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Geography is a major cause of our dirty air
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Sid Vic aka Fred X | 5:51 a.m. Jan. 25, 2009
If I breathe into a plastic bag, I'm gonna suffocate.
Yes, blame Mother Nature! | 6:00 a.m. Jan. 25, 2009
Got to love it! Let's blame Mother Nature for our pollution! Thus,
instead to attempting to deal with things we can control, let's just throw
our hands up and say, "Geography is at fault, and we can't do anything
about that!" Thus, I guess we should just not breath till March...
Comments continue below
Malthus | 6:48 a.m. Jan. 25, 2009
Geography EXACERBATES the pollution, sir, but clearly human activities are the
SOURCE. The bit about ammonium nitrate from the cattle in Cache Valley is
interesting, but it doesn't explain the massive degradation of air quality
in the Uintah Basin; if anything, we have fewer cows because of increased
residential development and less farm acreage.
Occam's razor; the simplest, most direct explanation is probably the correct one. When you see the fumes spewing from a vehicle, and then note how many vehicles are thrumming along the highways, and then notice the increasingly foul air, what's the simplest explanation for it? Geography is not a "major cause of our dirty air", but instead traps the dirty air we create. It's a significant difference, in that it doesn't allow humans to escape the blame as the ultimate cause.
Occam's razor; the simplest, most direct explanation is probably the correct one. When you see the fumes spewing from a vehicle, and then note how many vehicles are thrumming along the highways, and then notice the increasingly foul air, what's the simplest explanation for it? Geography is not a "major cause of our dirty air", but instead traps the dirty air we create. It's a significant difference, in that it doesn't allow humans to escape the blame as the ultimate cause.
BotchedExperiment | 7:38 a.m. Jan. 25, 2009
I'm pretty sure pollution is the major cause of our dirty air.
Geography only shows us the pollution we're creating.
Geography only shows us the pollution we're creating.
Gopherus | 7:56 a.m. Jan. 25, 2009
"The main problem, of course, is geography. The valleys of northern Utah
form bowls that lend themselves to temperature inversions, where high pressure
traps cold air on valley floors, with warm air far above. That's a
frustrating answer, of course.
Cars, factories, fireplaces, cows and chickens certainly add to the problem. There may be reasonable restrictions to consider. But the unfortunate truth is you can't outlaw geography."
This of course is a cop out. That's pretty much what I expect from Jay Evensen. The problem in Utah is a combination of the environment and our activities. We can of course control our activities. The issue is that our environment means that we might have to control our activities to a greater extent than those in a different place. So be it. We can either accept that our location influences our choices or we can accept the consequences of denying that idea. I'd prefer the former. Evensen would seem to prefer the latter. This is typical of the lack of responsibility seen in among Utah's conservatives.
Cars, factories, fireplaces, cows and chickens certainly add to the problem. There may be reasonable restrictions to consider. But the unfortunate truth is you can't outlaw geography."
This of course is a cop out. That's pretty much what I expect from Jay Evensen. The problem in Utah is a combination of the environment and our activities. We can of course control our activities. The issue is that our environment means that we might have to control our activities to a greater extent than those in a different place. So be it. We can either accept that our location influences our choices or we can accept the consequences of denying that idea. I'd prefer the former. Evensen would seem to prefer the latter. This is typical of the lack of responsibility seen in among Utah's conservatives.
easy answer | 8:21 a.m. Jan. 25, 2009
we have too many people in a confined area. Population is our problem. The
area is not going to grow.
But the population is. Anyone ready to disagree with that logic?
But the population is. Anyone ready to disagree with that logic?
1930 vs 2002 | 9:42 a.m. Jan. 25, 2009
"consider that one of the worst inversion winters was 1930-31, with 42 days
of smog. That was almost identical to 2002-03, with 43."
The inversion problem remains but the cause changes.
My parents tell me that back in the 30's the fog as they called it was lower in the valley. If you got above 13th East you could see over it.
You also have to remember that all or most of the homes and businesses were heated with oil or coal.
The inversion problem remains but the cause changes.
My parents tell me that back in the 30's the fog as they called it was lower in the valley. If you got above 13th East you could see over it.
You also have to remember that all or most of the homes and businesses were heated with oil or coal.
Jareu | 10:26 a.m. Jan. 25, 2009
Geography certainly plays a significant role in our pollution problems, but
let's not pretend that our energy consumption habits play an insignificant
role.
While 1930 may have had as bad or even worse pollution that 2002, we need to look at more than just the number of cars. I agree with the assumption that there were fewer cars in the 1930s, but I'm willing to bet that those cars were not as efficient and polluted more than cars today. I'm also willing to bet that much of the heating came from coal or oil furnaces that produced more pollution than today's cleaner burning and more efficient furnaces. It looks like any gains from improved efficiency have been negated by the increasing numbers of cars and furnaces.
Instead of finding excuses, let's look for solutions. We cannot change the geography, but we can change our energy use.
While 1930 may have had as bad or even worse pollution that 2002, we need to look at more than just the number of cars. I agree with the assumption that there were fewer cars in the 1930s, but I'm willing to bet that those cars were not as efficient and polluted more than cars today. I'm also willing to bet that much of the heating came from coal or oil furnaces that produced more pollution than today's cleaner burning and more efficient furnaces. It looks like any gains from improved efficiency have been negated by the increasing numbers of cars and furnaces.
Instead of finding excuses, let's look for solutions. We cannot change the geography, but we can change our energy use.
Anonymous | 12:17 p.m. Jan. 25, 2009
Man is the only animal that poisons its own drinking water and pollutes its own
air.
The sooner man disappears the sooner Mother Nature will bounce back.
The sooner man disappears the sooner Mother Nature will bounce back.
RE: anonymous | 4:12 p.m. Jan. 25, 2009
One problem, now of what you say is true.
Dogs do it,
cows do it,
fish do it,
birds are some dirtiest creatures that exist.
None of what you say is true,
It's just a silly nonsensical saying.
It's silly to think or believe there are people who WANT dirty water and dirty air.
There is no one that wants that!
There are just irresponsible people.
Dogs do it,
cows do it,
fish do it,
birds are some dirtiest creatures that exist.
None of what you say is true,
It's just a silly nonsensical saying.
It's silly to think or believe there are people who WANT dirty water and dirty air.
There is no one that wants that!
There are just irresponsible people.
solution | 5:35 p.m. Jan. 25, 2009
if you don't like it :move to Evanston. Plenty of land, wind and clean air.
re: it's not man's fault 4:12 | 7:17 p.m. Jan. 25, 2009
Sorry kiddo,
But I know of no animal that pollutes it's water with toxins such as mercury and arsenic and its air with carbon monoxide and heavy metals.
Would our Earth be better without man?
What do YOU think?
But I know of no animal that pollutes it's water with toxins such as mercury and arsenic and its air with carbon monoxide and heavy metals.
Would our Earth be better without man?
What do YOU think?
RE: RE: it;s not man's... | 12:46 a.m. Jan. 26, 2009
man is also the only creature that can create and use toxic things in
manufacturing, etc.
It doesn't matter whether you think earth would better without man. We are here. And it is irrelevant to any discussion.
shall we commit self-genocide just to make you happy?
Religion believes earth was created for man by god, and all things, including animals, were put here for man's use.
The real question is how do we use things more responsibly?
And there always be wicked and stupid people, who will do things destructive the resources we need and use.
What can really do about them?
And a question that is so germaine to discussion is why is it just so darn important for us to live here as long as possible? (assuming you believe in an after-life)
And for those that don't believe in an after life,
what's the point? In the big scheme of things what does it really matter?
It doesn't matter whether you think earth would better without man. We are here. And it is irrelevant to any discussion.
shall we commit self-genocide just to make you happy?
Religion believes earth was created for man by god, and all things, including animals, were put here for man's use.
The real question is how do we use things more responsibly?
And there always be wicked and stupid people, who will do things destructive the resources we need and use.
What can really do about them?
And a question that is so germaine to discussion is why is it just so darn important for us to live here as long as possible? (assuming you believe in an after-life)
And for those that don't believe in an after life,
what's the point? In the big scheme of things what does it really matter?
Anonymous | 6:33 a.m. Jan. 26, 2009
"... shall we commit self-genocide just to make you happy?
Take a look at the orange-brown air you are breathing into you lungs - looks to me that the genocide you speak of is already happening.
Take a look at the orange-brown air you are breathing into you lungs - looks to me that the genocide you speak of is already happening.
Gopherus | 6:44 a.m. Jan. 26, 2009
"Religion believes earth was created for man by god, and all things,
including animals, were put here for man's use."
Careful now. You should be saying your religion, or many religions. Not all religions hold this view. Even many Christian denominations believe that animals are here for us to steward, not use. If you use your religion to justify the destruction of the planet I guess I should accept that others would use their religion to destroy our nation and kill its people. After all, its what God wants.
Careful now. You should be saying your religion, or many religions. Not all religions hold this view. Even many Christian denominations believe that animals are here for us to steward, not use. If you use your religion to justify the destruction of the planet I guess I should accept that others would use their religion to destroy our nation and kill its people. After all, its what God wants.
Anonymous | 7:14 a.m. Jan. 26, 2009
God helps those that help themselves.
I believe this includes those who take an active part in cleaning up their fouled environment.
I believe this includes those who take an active part in cleaning up their fouled environment.
Anonymous | 7:24 a.m. Jan. 26, 2009
"...earth was created for man..."
Now that sounds like another ego-trip to me.
Now that sounds like another ego-trip to me.
An inconvenient Truth | 8:02 a.m. Jan. 26, 2009
Salt Lake County's air is significantly cleaner today than anytime in the
past half-century, and it is very likely cleaner today than any time in the past
100 years.
My children breathe cleaner air than I ever did when I was their age.
That's the reality, based on real data from real measurements. I have a hard time understanding why people love to wallow in hysteria and pessimism, but since it helps push a certain political agenda I guess the real reason is obvious.
My children breathe cleaner air than I ever did when I was their age.
That's the reality, based on real data from real measurements. I have a hard time understanding why people love to wallow in hysteria and pessimism, but since it helps push a certain political agenda I guess the real reason is obvious.
Anonymous | 9:45 a.m. Jan. 26, 2009
"My children breathe cleaner air than I ever did when I was their
age."
That's funny. I don't remember the color of the air being that way until recently.
The truth is the ground-level ozone, particle pollution (also known as particulate matter), carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and nitrogen dioxide has never been higher in Salt Lake City.
No matter how much somebody prays it is not.
That's funny. I don't remember the color of the air being that way until recently.
The truth is the ground-level ozone, particle pollution (also known as particulate matter), carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and nitrogen dioxide has never been higher in Salt Lake City.
No matter how much somebody prays it is not.
Margret Posch | 11:57 a.m. Jan. 26, 2009
I just read the article "Geography is a major cause of our dirty
air".
The geography does not put the fine particulates in the air that are a public health concern. The geography however is responsible for the inversion that 'traps' the air, and as the dirt accumulates over days or weeks we end up with air conditions that can be harmful - especially for young children, the elderly, and the sick.
Since we can't change our geography and Salt Lake City is a place that values families and has a high percentage of children I consider it very important to do all we can to promote a healthy air and a reductions of air pollutants.
Margret P
The geography does not put the fine particulates in the air that are a public health concern. The geography however is responsible for the inversion that 'traps' the air, and as the dirt accumulates over days or weeks we end up with air conditions that can be harmful - especially for young children, the elderly, and the sick.
Since we can't change our geography and Salt Lake City is a place that values families and has a high percentage of children I consider it very important to do all we can to promote a healthy air and a reductions of air pollutants.
Margret P
Kevin | 6:50 p.m. Jan. 26, 2009
I believe the indians called the SL valley the valley of smoke. I used to have
a house in the Aves. that had a coal-burning fireplace. I imagine there were
some historical smog days before smog was even in the dictionary.
But consider what could happen in stagnate winter temperature inversion when there is a massive, catastrophic earthquake. The fires. The chemical leaks. The airborne chlorine from the sewage treatment plants. All this on top of what's already bad.
We are so not ready.
But consider what could happen in stagnate winter temperature inversion when there is a massive, catastrophic earthquake. The fires. The chemical leaks. The airborne chlorine from the sewage treatment plants. All this on top of what's already bad.
We are so not ready.
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But to say it's the main one is silly. Does anyone really think Utah had problems with bad air before automobiles and factories came along?
Instead of blaming what we can't control, we should focus on what we can. Otherwise, according to a BYU/Harvard study, all of us are losing months of our lives to the bad air.