Reader comments
Schools worry about budget cuts
50 comments | Read story
85 % | 8:30 p.m. Jan. 20, 2009
Of the supposed 85% spent on teachers, how much is actually for bloated
administrations that don't contribute to the classroom experience.
Paula | 9:22 p.m. Jan. 20, 2009
Good thought Mark. However in my school parent teacher conferences are held
after school hours so as not to disrupt learning. Maybe some schools are
different-I don't know. And email and text messages are great if the
community in which you teach has access to computers (many of the parents where
I teach don't) as well as working phone numbers (again, a challenge in a
very low income area). Thanks for your input, though!
Comments continue below
NOT ALONE | 9:23 p.m. Jan. 20, 2009
I am thankful I am an educator in Utah.
There are many citizens who have lost their jobs who make sacrifices everyday.
I am ready to sacrifice whatever the elected representatives of this state deem necessary in order to balance our budget.
I KNOW I AM NOT ALONE.
There are many citizens who have lost their jobs who make sacrifices everyday.
I am ready to sacrifice whatever the elected representatives of this state deem necessary in order to balance our budget.
I KNOW I AM NOT ALONE.
Administrators.... | 9:38 p.m. Jan. 20, 2009
their salaries should get a trimming down too. I think that would be more than
fair...
Struggling | 10:35 p.m. Jan. 20, 2009
in the case of NOT ALONE, it's easy to forget about the littler guys. My
mother is a music teacher in a Utah County elementary school. If the budgets are
cut any higher than that 7.5 percent, she will lose her jobs. When money gets
tight, schools are forced to get rid of their specialty teachers which make
school worth while. It will be especially hard on our family if the budget is
cut because my mom's "secure" teaching job after 15 years at the
same school will have nothing.
Midwest Member | 5:52 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
To Not Alone: Before you give away what little you have, remember that Utah is
at the bottom of the nation in per-pupil spending. That didn't improve
when Utah was flush with cash a few years back, but now, when money is tight,
it's one of the first places they look to cut. I find it strange that Utah
places such a low value on it's schools. The LDS Church promotes
education, but it frequently seems, in practice, that the GOP ideology is more
important than religion to the citizens of the Beehive state.
Lean already | 6:26 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
The Utah education system is already the leanest in the nation. We spend less
per child than any other state, with large class sizes, few teachers, few
administrators, few support staff, etc. Obviously it will get leaner by cutting
bone and muscle (no fat to cut). Service to students will be reduced with any
cut. For the sake of the children, I hope that cuts will be shallow and short,
not deep and long.
Not Good | 7:54 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
I am a teacher and I currently have a classroom with 28 desks yet my smallest
class is 31 students. I have one class that is 35. Utah already treats our
teachers poorly and now they are going to make it worse. I love Utah but I am
already sending application to Wyoming and Nevada.
Legislators give Utah the shaft | 8:23 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Why isn't anyone talking about why this shortfall in revenues is as large
as it is?
Our economy has not gone done 15% in the last year. Unemployment is not up more than even 1 point in the last year.
The only thing that has changed dramatically since last year is tax cuts.
Our state Legislators in their desire to give tax cuts at all costs have screwed us.
Now they are concerned about balancing a budget that they have slashed to pieces.
My local representative told me they vote on the dollar amount first and then figure out what to fund. Doesn't that sound backwards in times like these? Why not figure out how much we need to spend to save basic services and not slash and burn every agency and dept. and then set a dollar amount and adjust taxes according to our basic needs?
Utah's Health care and education are already given sub par spending and now it will be worse.
I hope Huntsman stands up to the Crooks on the Hill.
Our economy has not gone done 15% in the last year. Unemployment is not up more than even 1 point in the last year.
The only thing that has changed dramatically since last year is tax cuts.
Our state Legislators in their desire to give tax cuts at all costs have screwed us.
Now they are concerned about balancing a budget that they have slashed to pieces.
My local representative told me they vote on the dollar amount first and then figure out what to fund. Doesn't that sound backwards in times like these? Why not figure out how much we need to spend to save basic services and not slash and burn every agency and dept. and then set a dollar amount and adjust taxes according to our basic needs?
Utah's Health care and education are already given sub par spending and now it will be worse.
I hope Huntsman stands up to the Crooks on the Hill.
Get it right | 8:29 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
The 85 percent salary issue is correct. In Grantie District administrative costs
are less than 5 percent of the total salary budget, and district office
administraters about .5 percent of that. Utah is last in the nation in
expenditures per student -- the national national average is $174; Utah $60. So
stop bleating about high administrative costs -- and no, I am not a school
administrator.
in a sorry State | 9:04 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
What is that the Lousyslature has against providing a high quality education to
our Children?
If they need to reduce spending they can suspend giving sweetheart deals to lobbyist, friends, special interests and campaign contributors. Spread the cuts throughout all departments. Even the legislature!
If they need to reduce spending they can suspend giving sweetheart deals to lobbyist, friends, special interests and campaign contributors. Spread the cuts throughout all departments. Even the legislature!
Insider | 9:15 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
I don't think people are railing on administrative costs. What they are
saying is that there are some ineffective administrators in education, why not
get rid of them. Additionally, many of them that perform poorly are simply moved
to another school or district position and are allowed to coast at a very large
salary until retirement.
Most want to get rid of the "bad teachers" well it should go both ways but never does. It is a definite double standard.
Furthermore, teachers are leaving the profession in Utah because of continual loss of funding year in and year out.
Most want to get rid of the "bad teachers" well it should go both ways but never does. It is a definite double standard.
Furthermore, teachers are leaving the profession in Utah because of continual loss of funding year in and year out.
Jess | 9:36 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
It is interesting that so far none of the comments so far mention cutting the
most wasteful "educational" expense: Interschool Sports. Thousands
of dollars could be saved if money spent on these activities which have
absoultely nothing to do with education was put into reducing classroom size,
purchasing new textbooks or supplies, etc. If interschool sports were
eliminated state wide it would send a message that Utah is really interested in
improving education even in tight budget times. Now is the time to send that
message.
The Weight | 10:25 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
RE: Jess | 9:36 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
High school is a time to make friends, get good grades, participate in activities and prepare for the future. Unfortunately, due to budget cuts, some schools have opted out of high school sports, believing that money would be better spent on academics. I understand that academics come first, but sacrificing high school sports lessens every child's high school experience, their ability to perform at optimum academic levels and develop into a well-rounded adult.
What many administrators, teachers and parents fail to realize is that high school sports offer teenagers an outlet. Participating in high school sports is important for motor skill development, maintaining a healthy exercise program and provides for a release of anger when the academic stressors become overwhelming. When youth participate in high school sports they release endorphins which helps decrease depression and increases energy. Most high schools, if not all, require at least a C average to participate in these sports, which provides the child with accountability.
Let's get rid of all P.E while were at it.
Honestly, people should think before they post such ridiculous points of view.
High school is a time to make friends, get good grades, participate in activities and prepare for the future. Unfortunately, due to budget cuts, some schools have opted out of high school sports, believing that money would be better spent on academics. I understand that academics come first, but sacrificing high school sports lessens every child's high school experience, their ability to perform at optimum academic levels and develop into a well-rounded adult.
What many administrators, teachers and parents fail to realize is that high school sports offer teenagers an outlet. Participating in high school sports is important for motor skill development, maintaining a healthy exercise program and provides for a release of anger when the academic stressors become overwhelming. When youth participate in high school sports they release endorphins which helps decrease depression and increases energy. Most high schools, if not all, require at least a C average to participate in these sports, which provides the child with accountability.
Let's get rid of all P.E while were at it.
Honestly, people should think before they post such ridiculous points of view.
DMH | 10:30 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
I think that the legislature needs to take a real good look at the programs that
need to be paid for with education being at the top of the list. Then charge
the citizens of Utah the appropriate amount of taxes to cover these expenses. I
do not have a problem paying my taxes as long as they are being spent wisely and
I can think of nothing that is more important than educating our children.
Jonas Sister | 10:47 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Please, please, please use some of the rainy day fund and some bonding on roads,
etc. to lessen the impact of the cuts on schools! 7.5% and 15% are way too high.
These types of cuts will hurt for years to come. Realistically, we should be
looking at 4.5% and 9% max.
Doug S | 10:53 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Midwest Member writes:
"I find it strange that Utah places such a low value on it's schools"
To which I reply:
What on earth are you talking about? Fully 40% of Utah's budget goes to K-12 education. That's a higher percentage than any other state in the Mountain West, and also significantly higher than California. Combine taxes and fees, and Utahns wind up contributing more of their income to the State than residents of virtually any other state in the Union.
The simple truth is, the money isn't there to give these kids the education they deserve.
"I find it strange that Utah places such a low value on it's schools"
To which I reply:
What on earth are you talking about? Fully 40% of Utah's budget goes to K-12 education. That's a higher percentage than any other state in the Mountain West, and also significantly higher than California. Combine taxes and fees, and Utahns wind up contributing more of their income to the State than residents of virtually any other state in the Union.
The simple truth is, the money isn't there to give these kids the education they deserve.
Re: Get it Right | 11:09 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Thanks for letting everyone know that administrative salaries in Utah are the
lowest in the nation. They may seem high to teachers because administrators
work 12-month And yes, I am administrator.
Roll back the tax cuts | 11:09 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Roll back tax cuts for the rich and cut the number of total deductions to 5 max.
end of budget shortfall and you will have money left over to keep public safty
staff and education staff and pay for their insurance. Why does the Legislature
only look at one way, cut, cut, cut? They say how well run and bare bones we
already run things in utah. If that is the case, you can't cut anymore and
provide for the children and citizens of the state.
Cyberian | 11:12 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Doug S:
The REAL fact of the matter is that we spend a higher percentage of our budget on education, but we spend less per pupil. The disconnect here is the MUCH higher than average size of Utah families, and the resultant large school-age population. As long as Utahns continue to have families with 4, 5, 6, 8 or more kids, the number of students per taxpayer will be larger than other states. As long as we allow the business-dominated legislature to do business as usual, wages will stay low. Low wages + large families = inadequate funding for schools (and everything else).
The REAL fact of the matter is that we spend a higher percentage of our budget on education, but we spend less per pupil. The disconnect here is the MUCH higher than average size of Utah families, and the resultant large school-age population. As long as Utahns continue to have families with 4, 5, 6, 8 or more kids, the number of students per taxpayer will be larger than other states. As long as we allow the business-dominated legislature to do business as usual, wages will stay low. Low wages + large families = inadequate funding for schools (and everything else).
Jumper | 11:13 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
I have yet to hear of any district that has successfully controlled costs by
hiring fewer teachers and allowing class sizes to increase. Shopping by mail may
eliminate salespeople, but a classroom without a teacher is not a sound idea.
It's similar to an airplane without a pilot.
Perhaps we should re-examine the key mechanisms for hiring, releasing and holding school administrators accountable?
Perhaps we should re-examine the key mechanisms for hiring, releasing and holding school administrators accountable?
priorities | 11:29 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
If we make any cuts, we should make cuts to education first. But please, hold
Utah roads blameless, we need to increase our spending on roads so that I can
drive the four blocks to my local Albertson's on smooth pavement.
That's the American way and my God-given right.
Doug S | 12:00 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Cyberian, I concur with you about family size though I don't agree with
your comments about wages. A higher minimum wage translates into fewer jobs, so
it's debatable as to whether you're really increasing tax revenues.
And even if you are, you've also got to worry about localized inflation
which means that the education budget may not buy as much in goods and
services).
Bottom line is, to get spending-per-pupil up to where it really should be you'll have to increase the average Utahn's state tax burden by (at minimum) somewhere around sixty percent.
Bottom line is, to get spending-per-pupil up to where it really should be you'll have to increase the average Utahn's state tax burden by (at minimum) somewhere around sixty percent.
The "Elephant in the Room" | 12:03 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Okay, here's the deal: Unless Utahns with large families are willing to
pay their full share of the education bill when they have two and half times the
national average of children per-tax payer, we are going to stay dead last in
per-pupil spending. The only way to increase the funding for schools is to limit
deductions to 5 or fewer on State Income Tax. If you can't pay your fair
share of your children's education costs (and if you have 5 or more
children,I guarantee you are not paying your fair share of Utah State Income
Tax.), you need to re-think the size of your family. There; the
"elephant" is revealed.
Second, we need to look at those costs which most directly affect students in the classroom before we begin to "cut with a hatchet" rather than a scalpel. Everyone is willing to sacrifice; let's just do some priortizing and not allow those legislators (Howard Stephenson et.al) who are still fuming at getting the "Voucher Bill" stuffed up their noses to use the budget shortfalls as an excuse to wage a "wholesale vendetta" on public education.
Second, we need to look at those costs which most directly affect students in the classroom before we begin to "cut with a hatchet" rather than a scalpel. Everyone is willing to sacrifice; let's just do some priortizing and not allow those legislators (Howard Stephenson et.al) who are still fuming at getting the "Voucher Bill" stuffed up their noses to use the budget shortfalls as an excuse to wage a "wholesale vendetta" on public education.
Re: priorities | 12:09 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Roads and bridges are Obama's/Huntsman's way to get some serious
infrastructure going on out there.
Don't blame ObamaHuntsman's for protecting our God given rights to infrastructure projects. Jerk.
Don't blame ObamaHuntsman's for protecting our God given rights to infrastructure projects. Jerk.
Dave from Midvale again | 1:16 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Folks. . . I believe the last place we should cut is our schools. The art
especially.
But for you folks that rely so much on the "Dollar per Pupil" formula for educational quality; compare that to our students test scores. Our kids excel over most of the nation in spite of the fewer dollars spent. This is due to the quality of teachers we have and the students parents (as well as their overall environment).
Wise placement of funds is more of what our schools need. But I propose we DON'T cut a red cent from the schools.
But for you folks that rely so much on the "Dollar per Pupil" formula for educational quality; compare that to our students test scores. Our kids excel over most of the nation in spite of the fewer dollars spent. This is due to the quality of teachers we have and the students parents (as well as their overall environment).
Wise placement of funds is more of what our schools need. But I propose we DON'T cut a red cent from the schools.
They should worry | 1:50 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
They've become bloated, ineffective bureaucracies that engage more in
babysitting than in education and have higher administrator/teacher ratios than
teacher/student ratios.
The greatest generations of American history were educated at home or in one-room schoolhouses. If students weren't interested in education, they were free to go to work.
Educators changed all that. They were the prime movers in passing laws that block meaningful contribution to society by anyone under 18. And now they whine that there are too many uninterested kids in school, suggesting that spending more on nurses, psychologists and security personnel is the solution, whether kids learn or not.
Cut the budget. Make administrators teach or find other employment. Shutter non-performing schools. Stop forcing uninterested kids into troubled classrooms. Acknowledge learning occurs outside classrooms. Let kids work if they want to. That'll do more to solve the illegal alien problem than 10 divisions of infantry on our borders.
If a kid's old enough to join a gang and commit murder when he's 12, he's old enough to hold a job and contribute to society.
The greatest generations of American history were educated at home or in one-room schoolhouses. If students weren't interested in education, they were free to go to work.
Educators changed all that. They were the prime movers in passing laws that block meaningful contribution to society by anyone under 18. And now they whine that there are too many uninterested kids in school, suggesting that spending more on nurses, psychologists and security personnel is the solution, whether kids learn or not.
Cut the budget. Make administrators teach or find other employment. Shutter non-performing schools. Stop forcing uninterested kids into troubled classrooms. Acknowledge learning occurs outside classrooms. Let kids work if they want to. That'll do more to solve the illegal alien problem than 10 divisions of infantry on our borders.
If a kid's old enough to join a gang and commit murder when he's 12, he's old enough to hold a job and contribute to society.
Tre | 1:58 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
We should NOT be considering where the cuts in education should take place; we
should be thinking about our priorities. We should be thinking about the
long-term effects of today's decisions. It is much more expensive to
incarcerate an individual, than it is to educate that same person. Why are we
so short-sighted? Do you really want illiterate, uneducated, ignorant people to
be our future engineers, doctors, lawyers, teachers, firefighters, police
officers, nurses, politicians? Come on folks -- common sense!
Re: worry | 2:08 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
I wish, as an educator, I was paid babysitting wages. I would make $3 per hour
for 7 hours with 30 kids in my room for 185 days. That's $116,550 a year
salary...three times what I make now. You know what...I will throw in teaching
them math, reading, history, interpersonal skills, manners, love, science,
respect, and cooperation for free. Pony up worry, you have a deal!
Can You Say "Dark Ages?" | 2:24 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Thanks, "They Should Worry." You are absolutely right: It was
educators who did all that. And I suppose if you want to return to the days of
the wild west, we could have it all undone. Remember that if you choose part of
the dog, by nature, you end up with the whole dog.
Re: Weight | 2:30 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Your point of view, in reality, is the ridiculous one. To defend high school
sports on arguments about endorphins, motor skills, etc. that improve learning
and augment the high school experience is naive. In a high school of 2,000 kids,
perhaps 15-20 percent of them will play high school sports, and that might be a
very generous estimate. For example, a total of 25-30 will play JV and Varsity
basket ball for 3 months. 100-120 will play football, and most boys on the
basketball team will be on the football team.
The reality is, most high school kids participate in high school sports from the bleachers. If endorphins and getting energy and healthy lifestyle are your arguments for keeping high school sports, then we already have P.E. classes, which Jess wasn't arguing that we cut. Everything you're arguing about is available in PE. The reality is, high school sports is a huge waste of money. They can boost morale and school spirit, but that's not your argument. So, before you offer an rude post, think clearly about your arguments. Kids can get everything you've claimed is important in PE.
The reality is, most high school kids participate in high school sports from the bleachers. If endorphins and getting energy and healthy lifestyle are your arguments for keeping high school sports, then we already have P.E. classes, which Jess wasn't arguing that we cut. Everything you're arguing about is available in PE. The reality is, high school sports is a huge waste of money. They can boost morale and school spirit, but that's not your argument. So, before you offer an rude post, think clearly about your arguments. Kids can get everything you've claimed is important in PE.
Re: WoRRy | 3:21 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
You should put a name and address so we can dump off a few of those gang members
in front of your house. Your a bright one Mr. Grinch (I think those are the
words. but most of these bloggers are...
Science Teacher | 3:39 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
What's that sound?!?!
Oh, that's the sound of applications being filed in other states.
What's THAT sound?!?
Hmm... sounds like footsteps of recent graduates getting cheap educations in Utah and hitting the road in search of a good job elsewhere.
People. A sad fact of life is you get what you pay for. NOT paying for education means you won't get any. You can try to squeeze blood from a turnip all you want.....
I also agree wholeheartedly with a head tax. If you can't afford them, stop having them!!! Exemptions should be phased out over the next generation and should be immediately cut after X number of rugrats.
Oh, that's the sound of applications being filed in other states.
What's THAT sound?!?
Hmm... sounds like footsteps of recent graduates getting cheap educations in Utah and hitting the road in search of a good job elsewhere.
People. A sad fact of life is you get what you pay for. NOT paying for education means you won't get any. You can try to squeeze blood from a turnip all you want.....
I also agree wholeheartedly with a head tax. If you can't afford them, stop having them!!! Exemptions should be phased out over the next generation and should be immediately cut after X number of rugrats.
To Re: worry | 2:08 | 4:28 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
You're on pal!
$116,550 is about half the $7,500 per pupil (X 30=$225,000) we're now paying!
You've eloquently made my point. A bloated bureaucracy that collects $225,000 from us, then pays the guy at the pointy end of the spear only $30,000 of it is seriously flawed.
Particularly when there are guys like Re: worry out there that are more than willing to care for and educate our kids better and cheaper.
$116,550 is about half the $7,500 per pupil (X 30=$225,000) we're now paying!
You've eloquently made my point. A bloated bureaucracy that collects $225,000 from us, then pays the guy at the pointy end of the spear only $30,000 of it is seriously flawed.
Particularly when there are guys like Re: worry out there that are more than willing to care for and educate our kids better and cheaper.
JT | 4:58 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
To "Not Good" and "Science Teacher":
You two threatening to file applications in other states ought to read the Las Vegas Sun newspaper. Nevada is axing it's teacher salaries by 6%! The incremental pay steps? They are on hold. I'm sick of hearing teachers threaten to pack up and go to Nevada. If you think that is bad, try California, their educators fear layoffs! Look up the Utah teacher and administrator wages on the web. Amazing how many administrators make over the $90,000-$100,000 a year mark! Check out how many teachers make over $50,000 a year! Put administrators in the classrooms with 34 students part of the day until the economy improves! It makes me sick that the first people they cut are the Aides (down to 3.5 hours a day). I say give every administrator a 15% pay cut! Keep the teachers, aides and lunch ladies. Don't forget educators, the entire state is facing %15 cuts, not just you sacred cows.
You two threatening to file applications in other states ought to read the Las Vegas Sun newspaper. Nevada is axing it's teacher salaries by 6%! The incremental pay steps? They are on hold. I'm sick of hearing teachers threaten to pack up and go to Nevada. If you think that is bad, try California, their educators fear layoffs! Look up the Utah teacher and administrator wages on the web. Amazing how many administrators make over the $90,000-$100,000 a year mark! Check out how many teachers make over $50,000 a year! Put administrators in the classrooms with 34 students part of the day until the economy improves! It makes me sick that the first people they cut are the Aides (down to 3.5 hours a day). I say give every administrator a 15% pay cut! Keep the teachers, aides and lunch ladies. Don't forget educators, the entire state is facing %15 cuts, not just you sacred cows.
JO JO | 5:00 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Re: Get it Right | 11:09 a.m. Jan. 21, 2009
First off administrators are NOT on a twelve month contract so there goes that theory.
Second the gap between administrative pay and teacher pay in Utah is indeed one of the largest in the nation.
Finally, please show documented proof that Utah school administrators are the lowest paid in the nation. That simply is not true.
Get it right, now that's laughable!!
First off administrators are NOT on a twelve month contract so there goes that theory.
Second the gap between administrative pay and teacher pay in Utah is indeed one of the largest in the nation.
Finally, please show documented proof that Utah school administrators are the lowest paid in the nation. That simply is not true.
Get it right, now that's laughable!!
Anonymous | 5:11 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
If they cut teacher pay down to fair market value (20K+ full time benefits) the
jobs will still be filled. Teaching has been a pastime, not a career for most
in Utah as women teach till they start a family. We have plenty of would-be
teachers that would jump into the profession if many of the hoops were removed.
Anonymous | 5:13 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
JT,
California laid off 10K teachers last summer.
California laid off 10K teachers last summer.
Jess | 5:27 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
I attended a large high school where a few conceited kids participated in high
school sports. I wanted to but my 98 pounds didn't qualify me for the
football team. At one time the basketball coach promised me that if I reached a
certain goal, he would put me on the basketball team. After I met the goal, the
coach reneged. I learned a lot about honesty from that coach. The actual fact
is that most boys in high school who don't make the team envy those who do.
It's a lot of money spent on a few athletically gifted or large guys who
get their already inflated egos boosted while the rest of the students feel
jealous and daydream of being Mr. Touchdown.
As a former school teacher and principal, I saw this in action. It just cost a lot of money that could be better used elsewhere and often interfered with other more important educational experiences. Intamurals, on the other hand had a lot of participants, were a lot of fun and cost almost nothing.
Lets replace interschool sports with a good P.E. program and intramurals. It's a win/win.
As a former school teacher and principal, I saw this in action. It just cost a lot of money that could be better used elsewhere and often interfered with other more important educational experiences. Intamurals, on the other hand had a lot of participants, were a lot of fun and cost almost nothing.
Lets replace interschool sports with a good P.E. program and intramurals. It's a win/win.
The Weight | 5:35 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Re: Weight | 2:30 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
You miss the point. The objective of school sports is the enrichment of the high school experiences of students within the context of the educational mission of schools. As such, school sports should be educational and contribute to the overall education of ALL students, NOT athletes only. Therefore, it is important to the overall moral of each school. It would benefit all involved to look at making cuts in other areas.
Other objectives of school sports logically follow from the educational mission: citizenship, sportsmanship, fair play, teamwork, respect, and health and welfare of ALL students not only during the school years but continuing into adulthood. YES, adulthood!!!
Furthermore, the cost of sports is actually minimal when compared to administrative salaries. In fact, coaches pay in Utah is pathetic at best.
Finally, nearly half of all students and 75% of high school students do not attend any physical education classes after they have completed their requirements for graduation. MMMMMMMMMMM!!!
So you see they cannot get everything you claim in P.E.
Speculation on your part...talk about rude!!!
You miss the point. The objective of school sports is the enrichment of the high school experiences of students within the context of the educational mission of schools. As such, school sports should be educational and contribute to the overall education of ALL students, NOT athletes only. Therefore, it is important to the overall moral of each school. It would benefit all involved to look at making cuts in other areas.
Other objectives of school sports logically follow from the educational mission: citizenship, sportsmanship, fair play, teamwork, respect, and health and welfare of ALL students not only during the school years but continuing into adulthood. YES, adulthood!!!
Furthermore, the cost of sports is actually minimal when compared to administrative salaries. In fact, coaches pay in Utah is pathetic at best.
Finally, nearly half of all students and 75% of high school students do not attend any physical education classes after they have completed their requirements for graduation. MMMMMMMMMMM!!!
So you see they cannot get everything you claim in P.E.
Speculation on your part...talk about rude!!!
Suzi | 6:01 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
RE:JT | 4:58 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
I like your idea of putting administrators in the class room.
Please remember teachers making over 50K have taught for over ten years and have Masters degree.
My point is this...it is alot of hard work and schooling to get to 50K.
Other points well taken.
I like your idea of putting administrators in the class room.
Please remember teachers making over 50K have taught for over ten years and have Masters degree.
My point is this...it is alot of hard work and schooling to get to 50K.
Other points well taken.
To: JO JO | 5:00 p.m | 6:02 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
First off, every administrator I know and have worked in my 13 years of teaching
has had a 12 month contract. I have lived and taught in 3 different states (NV,
UT, and AZ)and that is the case in every school I have worked in. Get a clue
before commenting
Anonymous | 7:10 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
So it came down in Davis. They said to expect teacher layoffs and 40+ students
in class. Can't wait... if I'm still there.
Anonymous | 8:12 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Cutting sports has the least impact on education because athletes in the major
three sports of football, baseball and soccer can go join a rec league to have
those needs met. Girls and other types of athletes would be mostly out of luck
though. However, I don't think that axing cheer and sports will actually
get districts all that close to the eventual 15% cutting threshold for next
school year, or the 4.5-7.5% needed this school year.
Cutting days of school seems like a good idea as well. So does ending bus service. These ideas also have costs associated with them. More kids die walking to school, and cutting school leaves the child further behind (ask any teacher how bad it is when a child takes a two week vacation in the middle of the school year).
The obvious answer is so simple it would never work. Change the law to allow kids to opt out of public education sooner, say 14 or even 12 with parental consent. If school were optional it would be more effective.
Cutting days of school seems like a good idea as well. So does ending bus service. These ideas also have costs associated with them. More kids die walking to school, and cutting school leaves the child further behind (ask any teacher how bad it is when a child takes a two week vacation in the middle of the school year).
The obvious answer is so simple it would never work. Change the law to allow kids to opt out of public education sooner, say 14 or even 12 with parental consent. If school were optional it would be more effective.
RE:Hoops | 9:44 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
Yeah let's get rid of the hoops. Start with College degrees, this is
education who needs degrees!!! Second anyone can do it and everyone wants these
jobs...that's why we had zero qualified applicants in our district for a
math teacher and hired a Shop teacher with a level 2 math endorsement to teach
High School math!! Third, Macdonalds pays more shall I go on.
JO JO | 10:37 a.m. Jan. 22, 2009
To: JO JO | 5:00 p.m | 6:02 p.m. Jan. 21, 2009
First off...WRONG!!!.
School principals work 260 days. Meaning they are on a ten and a half month contract. Vice principals roughly 206 days and teachers 188.
Additionally, the perks of the job are outstanding. I won't go into that here because you'll just twist that information as well.
You say you have been teaching for thirteen years and yet you do not even know about administrative contracts in your respective school district...so sad that you tell others to get a clue when you haven't one yourself.
I can tell your special and misinformed.
I am glad I'm not in your class!!
First off...WRONG!!!.
School principals work 260 days. Meaning they are on a ten and a half month contract. Vice principals roughly 206 days and teachers 188.
Additionally, the perks of the job are outstanding. I won't go into that here because you'll just twist that information as well.
You say you have been teaching for thirteen years and yet you do not even know about administrative contracts in your respective school district...so sad that you tell others to get a clue when you haven't one yourself.
I can tell your special and misinformed.
I am glad I'm not in your class!!
Science Teacher | 11:23 a.m. Jan. 22, 2009
A 6% chop off of another states' pay is still a lot more than Utah teacher
pay.
When Wyoming can start a teacher at 10 grand more than any district around me, I question myself why I still hold on to hope that Utah will come around.
When Wyoming can start a teacher at 10 grand more than any district around me, I question myself why I still hold on to hope that Utah will come around.
Tara | 8:53 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009
I THINK MANY SPECIAL-ED PROGRAMS ARE A JOKE. I KNOW i USE TO BE A TEACHER. i
WATCHED THESE CHILDREN (THEY ARE SUFFICIENTLY TESTED) AND DETERMINED TO BE WAY
BELOW GRADE LEVEL AND THEN THEY SEND THEM TO A CLASS FOR 30 MIN. WITH 8-15 OTHER
CHILDREN ALL ON DIFFERENT LEVELS WITH 1 TEACHER...YEP 1 TEACHER AND THAT IS
SUPPOSE TO HELP IMPROVE THEM...OH MY GOSH ITS A JOKE!!! I WATCHED PARENTS JUST
GIVE AN EXTRA 30 MIN ONE ON ONE WITH THEIR CHILD IN THE EVENING AND GAVE THEM
SUPPLEMENTS AND THESE CHILDREN IMPROVED GREATLY.. I THINK HOW THEY HAVE IT
STRUCTURED IS NOT IMPROVING CHILDREN..I'M SURE THERE ARE SOME THAT DO BUT
THE MAJORITY..NO WAY!!! THESE CHILDREN NEED ONE ON ONE....I KNOW ONE TEACHER WHO
SAT ALL HER RESOURCE KIDS AT ONE TABLE...MIX THEM UP SO THE OTHER CHILDREN CAN
HELP THEM, OR SO THEY CAN LEARN FROM THEM...JUST MY OPINION!!!!!
Anonymous | 1:54 p.m. July 5, 2009
How are you. After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no
monument than why I have one. Help me! Could you help me find sites on the:
Washington dodge dealers. I found only this - dodge dealers cochranville pa.
Ford dealers ankeny dodge dealers ankeny jeep dealers ankeny ford dealers iowa
dodge dealers iowa jeep dealers iowa ford I twurled news beta. Our davie, fl
dodge dealership always has a wide selection and low prices. THX :eek:, Rick
from Morocco.
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
- Haws playing like a veteran 12:36 a.m.
- Hot Rod behind mic for Lakers 12:35 a.m.
- Jazz go up against 'the best' 12:33 a.m.
- Sports on the air 12:26 a.m.
- Bobcats stun high-flying Nuggets 12:23 a.m.
- Utes finally get to host Michigan 12:18 a.m.
- Flash apologize, offer refund 12:12 a.m.
- Editorial: Leave the economy alone 12:12 a.m.
- Dishonest global warming scientists 12:12 a.m.
- Tensions in Ceuta 12:12 a.m.
- BYU football: Bronco weighs in on Hall
- Yet again, we learn BCS is a big joke
- Snow brings big chill
- Cougars in better mood about bowl
- Andersen apologizes for Jordan hoax
- Williams' late jumper tops Spurs
- Ranking the bowl games
- $2M error could mean layoffs
- Witness: Mitchell stalked victims
- Expert calls Mitchell delusional
- Y. profs: Beck not all-knowing
278 - Letters: Global warming a lie214
- TCU to play Boise in Fiesta Bowl205
- BYU football: Bronco weighs in on Hall164
- Cougars going back to Vegas148
- Utah/BYU rivalry can be more civil143
- George lost in rivalry hatefest119
- Andersen apologizes for Jordan hoax110
- Harpring's NBA career is over99
- Ed Smart 'appalled' at testimony99
For the latest news in the health care debate and how it affects you...
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette writer Joyce Gannon offers the following advice...
Latest comments
GO UTES!!!
@David B 6:42 p.m. Dec. 8: "That is so dumb! I think I will listen to 98%...
i don't get it. whose fault is it? i think it's the children's fault. wanting...
What next, Mr. Bender, a call for folks to dig holes in their sandboxes and...
I still believe in U
I'm glad that the boy was not seriously hurt. Curiosity sometimes hurts a...
years ago, I accompany a friend of mine who is a profiler in law enforcement...
Wow. 102 - 40. Thats incredible.
Wasn't David Nixon on the roster for Oakland this week.
This is embarrassing...
Advertisements
Cut parent-teacher conferences. In most districts, four are scheduled throughout the year, for which teachers receive two days of pay. This does trim teacher salaries, which is not a good thing, but it ends a largely ineffective program that was developed when many parents and teachers didn't have access to a phone, much less e-mail or text messages. Some districts around the country have stopped the practice, with no appreciable ill effects. And most teachers despise the PT conferences for being such an unproductive use of time and tax dollars.
Cutting off the last few days of school, because they are not as educationally productive, is like cutting off the end of a rope, you will just create a new unproductive end.