Deseret News | Leaders discuss axing one school day to save money

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Leaders discuss axing one school day to save money

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Anonymous | 11:29 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Interesting that the headline for a story announcing the possibility of a shorter school year is grammatically incorrect. It should read: One FEWER day of school proposed to save money. Perhaps cutting education is not the answer.

The public | 11:54 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

should ask their legislators to cut some of the extremely high salaries in admin. rather than cutting programs, or teachers.

Not being a state employee, I will be mildly amused at how the state legislature leaves intact some of the astronomical salaries in state gov't. and then sits around and wonders "how they can make ends meet" in state gov't.

i.e. class sizes get increased while administrators at the state stay at 120k per year or more.

WHATS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE?

And | 12:10 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Perhaps the legislators who pocket their hotel money even if they sleep at home should give up that practice. And Anonymous is absolutely correct.

Comments continue below

jenny | 12:31 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Let's keep dumbing down the kids of tomorrow and let the fat cats keep raping Utah. Is it not time to say no to illegal children being educated at the expense of the citizen. Times are tough and if we are going to cut programs for citizens that need it then no more hand outs to those who are not legal. But to cut education is below the belt.

tlafuller | 12:35 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

One day fewer of school is not going to kill a teachers salary! They can cut back on a few luxury items like non essential drinks, a few less outings to the movies, less luxury items, etc. My kids complain about having to attend their last week of school because they already took their finals the week before, etc. So then they just sit around and do much of nothing for a week. While I was in school, they started finals the Friday before school was out. We had one to two finals a day, so we could better prepare and study in the other classes and not cram. Every job and school should go to a longer day and four day week to cut back on the car gas, utilities at work, etc. Schools also only have a five minute break between classes and a thirty minute lunch, that barely allows the kids to get lunch and go from one class to the next and not enough time for potty breaks. I'd like to see the schools pay our kids urinary/kidney infections for that. Not to mention the meals they serve are unmentionable!!

Ex teacher | 12:37 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Start at the top for budget cuts. Demand that school districts eliminate some of the "specialist" positions created when times were good. I know in Washington County, there are entirely too many overpaid and under-producing "specialists" at Malfunction Junction (the district office). Let's look there first!

I take that back. Let's start with the state legislature first. Lead by example, folks

Really Smart Move | 12:49 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

We're already behind most of the other industrial countries when it comes to educating our children. We're in a budget crunch, but education has other places to cut funds rather than eliminating one day from the school calendar. If anything, I believe we need more days in the school year. If memory serves, so does Governor Huntsman.

Cut educational funds -- okay. Cut number of school days -- you've got to be kidding.

Jay | 12:54 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Once again, go after the Teachers..... Wrong answer Mr. Haws.
They could balance that budget tomorrow by going after a couple of high priced administrators.
Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians

Only one day | 12:52 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Yes, it is only one day, but you know in a year or 2 they will want to slice off another day. It will get down to 140 days eventually.
Why not use hotel taxes to pay for education instead of a soccer stadium?

Shecky | 1:27 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Keep teachers...cut administrators. Why don't you go to four day weeks. You'd save much more money that way. Isn't that why the State did that?

MOM | 1:34 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Trust these idiots to do some damage to children. Many of them want to do away with public education anyway. The Utah school system has been so weakened as to be worse even than the old standard for poor education, Arkansas.

Our children mean everything. Right.

Yep | 5:16 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Start by doing away with the state office of education and the state school board. We've got perfectly good useless people at district levels. Why waste all that money at the state level? Then, when the state rot is gone, let's talk about balancing the budget on the backs of students and teachers.

Re: tlafulluler | 5:50 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

It would be sad if the world of public education was as you describe it. Fortunately, hardly anything you said even comes close to reality. Try spending some serious time as a volunteer at a school, get to know some of our good teachers, actually visit a cafeteria and have lunch. Visit a school during the last week and help out (c'mon, I dare ya). I guarantee you'll be surprised and, if you're even half-way honest, you'll change your tune.

tlafuller | 6:16 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

re:tlafulluler comment at 5:50pm 1/12/09.... This is coming directly from my students, other students and even some of their own parents. My husband and I go and eat lunch with our kids once or twice a year and yes the meals are unmentionable. These schools were Syracuse Jr. and Layton Hg and WillowCreek Middle and Lehi High to be exact. My children more often than not get undercooked meals and are turned away during 1st lunch, because they have to have enough for the 2nd lunch, and yet both Lehi schools refuses to do anything. I have volunteered at schools and at the end of the school year myself many times. So I do have firsthand knowledge of these schools. I know many excellent teachers and administrators at these schools. Their work has nothing to do with school lunches, breaks or even the doing not much of anything at the end of the year or the days before Easter, Thanksgiving or Christmas breaks. I speak of personal experience, knowledge and understanding.

Unbelievable | 7:37 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Already dead last in funding, now Utah is going to get further behind the rest of the country with these cuts. Doesn't anyone in this state get tired and ashamed of how Utah treats its children? These lawmakers will pay for a soccer stadium and their own per-diem desires, but won't fund schools properly. Maybe if Utahns were better educated with better careers, the state would have a bigger tax base. They should charge a head tax on all the families that have lots of kids and no money. They drain our public school resources. This is shameful.

Mark | 8:02 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

How much could we save by cutting athletics completely from the school program? Buses, coaches, maintenance of facilities cost millions. We could then fire all of those imcompetent teachers who keep their jobs by coaching.

Make parents responsible for the health and physical activity of their children. Make all sports community-based rather than school-based.

The Future | 8:39 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

1. Cut sports
2. Prohibit any salary/benefits for school board members (5 members X 41 districts X $14,000 (full family insurance and $3,000/yr. plus travel and other perks).
3. Four day week with extanded hours.
4. About 1/2 as many mandated tests

Science Teacher | 9:04 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Wonder who will start the lawsuit for violating contract...

Never mind that we are already seriously pushed past the limit for time. Now, they want better results with less time.

Get real.

Wyoming looks better everyday. Heard today that AK hires at 50k.

Re: tlafuller at 6:16 p.m. | 9:14 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

I happen to be a teacher at Willowcreek. You must have had the unfortunate experience of coming to our school on an off day. It is not my fault the schools are way over crowded. We do the best we can with what we have. Maybe Utahns shouldn't be so grouchy when they want to raise taxes to help pay for education. If we actually had some money then your precious kids could food. If you don't like school lunches that much...then why don't you have your kids take a sack lunch?

Oh...and by the way...in my years of working there...I have yet to see a parent come and eat lunch with their kids at school...so I think you are just blowing a bunch of hot air.

Legislators should take cuts... | 9:17 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Why don't we cut a day from the legislative session. They don't do anything productive as it is.

Or maybe the legislators should stop taking pay raises and cut money from the budget that way. People out in the real world they supposedly are "working for" are struggling and legislators are pocketing money left and right.

I'm a teacher too | 9:43 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

How many wasted days are there in the school year? Days when teachers are not able to accomplish anything? The last week of school is a waste. Halloween is a waste. How about all those days when the teacher is out of the classroom for training or meetings? When teachers leave the class in the hands of a substitute who may be a capable person but doesn't have any background knowledge of how the class works how much gets done?

I say if you must cut a day make it Halloween in the future, everyone hates teaching that day anyway. If its $ you want to save stop pulling the teachers out of the room for every little thing and give us a chance to actually teach the children.
More time in the class room with the teacher = better educated children. Never a bad thing.

WHY STOP? | 9:44 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Why stop at 1 day? At the K-12 level, we are one week or so into the second semester. Why not stop school now? We could save around 80 or so days of expenses. At the end of May, maybe we could see that we realy don't need school at all. There would be a tremendous savings to taxpayers due to this inspired ending of the K-12 public education system.

Next stop, the University System!

We could balanced the budget simply by doing away with all vestiges of the educational system.

We can do this!

Clare | 10:07 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

As a teacher, I can tell you that there will never be a four day school week at the elementary level. Parents depend on us to watch their chldren and we do need the time for teaching. Elementary children can only go so long before they poop out.

I believe the Federal Government pays for the school lunch program, so that won't impact the state budget. If you cut the school year shorter, the same thing with students not be taught as much on the last week of the school year still will happen, but just sooner. Teachers have to get the grades done by the last day of the school year. Many students actually just go off on vacation on the last week of school. I'm proud to say that there has never been a day in my classroom where we haven't learned at least one new concept. I even give homework on Halloween!

I agree with the waste of my time at workshops and the incredible amount of money that is wasted on testing. Did you know they burn the tests from the year before so we don't cheat. It's an insult and a waste of money!

K | 10:09 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

As to nothing getting done the day or days before breaks, there will always be a day before the break even if you take one day away off the school calendar.

Z | 10:37 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

K, the answer to your dilemma is easy! Just don't tell any that you have taken a day away from the school year until they show up the last day and find the doors locked until next year.

Re: Mark | 5:36 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Mark at 8:02pm suggested: "We could then fire all of those incompetent teachers who keep their jobs by coaching."

How about also firing all those incompetent teaches who keeping their jobs by masquerading as teachers????

Clare | 7:31 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Who is going to replace these terrible teacher?

Clare | 7:32 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Who is going to replace these terrible teachers? (Oops, forgot the s!

salty dog | 8:32 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

get rid of busing like they did in California .....except for the federally mandated ...but not federally funded buses for special need students...yeah and get rid of the hotel reimbursement for legislators ...you would get fired for this expense in the private or corporate sector.

mr.noot | 8:35 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

less school less money!

The Weight | 9:35 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Re: tlafuller at 6:16 p.m. | 9:14 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009.

Hey tlafuller did you have a bad school experience growing up? Were you jealous of other students success because you couldn't cut it in the classroom. Couldn't make in school or sports and now your angry at the entire system.

The point is you have had no experience of any kind with students (unless they are your own, who are more than likely following the same path of destruction), teachers, administrators, lunch employees...you really haven't a clue.

Take some responsiblity for your failures instead of pointed the finger at others.

Poor Baby!!

5 kids | 9:35 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

I've got 5 kids in the public schools and here are my two cents: 1) Get rid of all-day kindergarten -- we don't need babysitting provided by the State (Gov Huntsman) 2) Get rid of 2 - 5 days of school --there are PLENTY of wasted days where the kids do nothing (watch movies). I can flip movies on or hold play time at home -- I don't need it done at school. The current school system is ridiculous.

Ridiculous | 9:42 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

My parents are teachers. They both work hard, but they already barely make enough to support a family If the cuts take their health benefits, then they might as well quit and go back to school so they can get higher-paying jobs. They love teaching school, but not if it forces them or their family to starve.

And as for the idea of cutting back to four days a week! That's preposterous!! What if both parents work, like mine? Then these people would have to pay for child care, further slicing their already miniscule pay.

Solution: get rid of No Child Left Behind. That would save a ton of money that schools are required to use on some unnecessary items. Utahns can't afford to take money away from education. We already see enough imbecile children wandering the streets these days. And if you take from education money, then the good teachers will leave; and who will be left? The terrible teachers.

Get real, people!

Frank | 10:18 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

I have a serious idea. We could cut days from the school year without cutting class instruction and teacher prep time. How?

Cut parent-teacher conferences. Four are scheduled throughout the year, for which teachers receive two days of pay. This does trim teacher salaries, which is not a good thing, but it ends a largely ineffective program that was developed when many parents and teachers didn't have access to a phone, much less e-mail or text messages. Some districts around the country have stopped the practice, with no appreciable ill effects. And most teachers despise the PT conferences for being such an unproductive use of time and tax dollars.

Cutting off the last few days of school, because they are not as educationally productive, is like cutting off the end of a rope, you willl just create a new unproductive end.

AKA | 10:28 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

More teacher bashing here in Utah...imagine that. No wonder the good ones are leaving and no one is entering the profession.

Anonymous | 10:48 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Let's see, my kids take the end of level CRT tests during the first week of May. That leaves 3 more weeks of wasted time.

Give the test the last three days of school and you will eliminate any wasted time.

Seriously why do they take these tests so early? The state doesn't get the results back to the teachers before school is out anyway. Why do they cut out almost a whole month of instruction time?

Re: Ridiculous | 10:58 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

If both of your parents are working full time as teachers, perhaps the inability to make ends meet stems more from poor financial planning than salary. I know of several families supported by one teaching income. They have no problem making ends meet because they live in modest homes and live within their means. They do not lack "extras" such as family vacations or other entertainment because they carefully plan. I am sick of teachers whining that they don't make enough. Compare their salaries with other State employees doing important jobs, such as public safety. You will see that teachers aren't any more underpaid, yet education was held harmless in the last round of State budget cuts, and will likely get a lower cut than the rest of the agencies this time around.

re: Mark, The Future | 10:57 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Cut sports? Are you serious? You two were obviously not athletes.
Getting rid of High School sports would not improve the quality of our children....I actually think kids would suffer if High School sports were cut off.
Sports teach many things that you can't get any where else.
Sports also help get kids through college who otherwise would probably not have made it through.

Anonymous | 11:34 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

You start cutting education, your puting kids at higher risk in every way. Their not going to have activities to keep them out of trouble. The percentage rate of kids using drugs and other crime is going to go up. Make the class size bigger more and more kids are not going to be successful in life. You have to have education in order to survive.

Four-day school week | 11:36 a.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Why don't we allow local districts to have four-day school weeks? They could add just a few minutes to each day and still reach their 990 hour per year expectation. I think Rich is doing this now and Duchesne will start this next year. Why not make it easier for more districts?

Tre | 2:00 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Decreasing education increases incarceration.

It is much less expensive to educate than incarcerate an individual.

During the 90s teachers went ten years without a pay increase. Most of us stuck it out. Then came NCLB and disrespect for education and educators. Fewer are staying. More than half of our new teachers leave within the first five years of teaching. What does that say about Utah?

Teachers don't need to be bribed with $15,000 housing loans to keep us here. You pay an appropriate salary and there will be better candidates applying for teaching positions.

Increase the behavioural expectations (and accompanying consequences) of students and you will see more teaching -- and learning -- taking place.

A state constitutional change is necessary to pay for properly fund education: full deductions for child 1 and 2; half deductions for the rest. Paying for education is a community responsibility, however, those who use the system the most should shoulder more of the financial responsibility.

We should be thinking of INCREASING, not descreasing the number of school days. We should be investigating ways to help our teachers obtain advanced degrees, instead of keeping it unaffordable.

Education is NOT an option!

Re: Re: Ridiculous | 2:56 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Why can't you come up with your own unique comment instead of bashing on mine?

My dad lost his teaching job for health reasons, and was only able to find another job as a teacher in a place where he doesn't receive benefits or retirement of any kind. Lots of the extra money is going into their retirement.

Teachers in Utah are, or are close, to the least-paid teachers in the U.S. If you don't treat teachers with respect, how can you expect them to even WANT to give students a quality education. They only didn't get cut in the budget last year because they weren't making enough money in the first place.

Besides, there are so many other places to cut budgets from rather than salaries and needed benefits like health care.

So Re:Riduculous don't presume to know my life. Come up with your own solution to problems rather than harping on other people's ideas.

re: re: re: ridiculous | 4:05 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

I am assuming you have personally perused the financial records of the "several families supported by one teaching income" in order to make such a bold statement.

I am a teacher. I have talked several friends and family members OUT of being teachers. My reasoning: Eeen with a PhD, the salary of a teacher WILL NOT adequately support a family. Every teacher I know who is the main breadwinner has a second job during the school year and continues working at additional employment during the summer and unpaid days off (that's right, teachers are NOT paid for the days they are not in the classroom).

My husband jokes that he supports my teaching hobby. The reality is that after ten years of teaching, my salary is still not enough to adequately support a family. We live modestly, had a small family, very few vacations. I supplement my income through private tutoring work.

I understand that the state budget is restricted; anyone with half a brain knows that. What I don't understand is the continued harrassment and disrespect of teachers. We are not babysitters. We are well-educated individuals with aspirations of assisting our students to become successful adults.

Re:Anonymous 10:48 a.m. Jan. 13 | 4:26 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Actually, the point of giving the tests early is so the state CAN get the results back to the teachers before the end of school. Computerized testing may help us push the tests more toward the end of the year. Also, if teachers are not using the rest of the year effectively, it's a teacher problem compounded by lack of support from home (i.e., the attitude that nothing important happens the last few weeks of school so why care?). I teach till the end and get tons of hassle from students and parents who want to be done in April.

Anonymous II | 5:49 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Thank you to all the great teachers in Utah who are willing to serve our children. You deserve points in heaven.

JayneB | 6:10 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

There is much wasted time and money in the middle/high school years. Students aren't learning by ability, but age. For advanced students, test them for high school courses to take in middle school. GIVE CREDIT for taking them early. Currently, kids who take high school courses early, GET NO CREDIT. In fact, they must take them again in high school. (WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY!)

There are NO gifted/advancement programs provided in middle schools. Many 8th graders are similar to 9th/10th graders 20 years ago, yet they aren't challenged. Some become disenchanted with education and go elsewhere with their interests, sometimes on less-than-desirable areas of society.

If they are allowed to begin high school early, then they will finish early, costing less money.

Similarly, sophomores/juniors who are ready to begin college are held captive taking required-courses below their ability. Many sophomores/juniors are capable of writing at college level and are taking Calc. Test them. See if they are ready for college. If so, reward them by letting them leave early WITH A DIPLOMA. If not, keep them captive. It is an easy way to save money and save them from unwanted/unneeded captivity at high school.

Anonymous | 6:12 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

I am SO glad the legislature is holding the rainy day fund harmless. It is so wonderful to know that they will have that money for whatever uses if we ever actually need it.

In the mean time, go ahead and start cutting. Blind children don't need help or funding, nor do the autistic kids. Teachers make an outrages chunk of change that makes the average NBA player wish they had been a teacher instead. We all know this to be true because the legislature says it is so.

Get rid of the senior year. | 7:02 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

Utah is all about saving money. There are lots of ways to save money. Look how they educate for less around the world. Get rid of kindergarten and 1st grade. Have students start school when they are 7. Just let everyone graduate when they turn 16. Just make kids go to school for 7 months. September, October, November, January, February, March, April. That eliminates all those "wasted days" that you are talking about. Have class sizes 45. No books or paper. Have one test only. Let the elite and college bound into one advanced curriculum. If you don't pass with a 120 IQ or higher by 3rd grade then you get out after 8 years. Make the last two years private and pay your way school for the rich. Have just a 5 match soccer season. 10 game basketball season. Eliminate volleyball wrestling baseball softball track. Only promote sports that draw a paying audience that cater to the rich and elite families.

Oh, change the name of Utah to Haiti or Sri Lanka. Maybe educate boys only and change to Afghanistan or Yemen. Have China and Malaysia set up some sweat shops here for our poor and undereducated.

Science Teacher | 7:07 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

You want more useful days during school time?

STOP TAKING YOUR KIDS OUT FOR VACATION DURING SCHOOL!!!!

That would be complaint number one from me. It is NOT me job to privately tutor your kid who went to Disneyland for a week during test review or to Mexico for the whole month of December!

Make your kids do the homework!

Bring them to school on time! Buy them paper and pencils! Let them stay after to do makeup work instead of running home to do chores.

And stop treating teachers like your houseservant. We are professionals and are quite tired of the abuse.

Utah is already at the bottom | 7:05 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

of the 50 states. We really need to look at the rest of the world to find some cheaper ways to run our education system.

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