Deseret News | Reader comments: ABC News focuses cameras on LDS Church

Reader comments
ABC News focuses on LDS

30 seconds? | 11:17 a.m. Jan. 10, 2009

How can you adequately cover ANY topic in 30 seconds?

Otter | 11:24 a.m. Jan. 10, 2009

The caravan is moving; antis get outta the way!

American Fork | 11:27 a.m. Jan. 10, 2009

The Nightline interview with Elder M. Russell Ballard and Quentin Cook helps the unenformed to understand the position of the Latter-day Saints on Proposition 8, polygamy, and the reason and use of temples. There is a lot of misunderstanding among people not of the LDS faith about various issues that continues to be perpetuation by some in and out of the media that brings unwarranted ridicule and abuse of the Church and its members by various activists.

Comments continue below

STOP IT! | 12:15 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

Another bad idea. Stay out of the media, it does no good but continues to discredit any progress we have made into the mainstream over the past 30 years.

Chino Blanco | 12:15 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

In the Nightline segment, I particularly liked the part where Elder Ballard claimed he could command the weather, but also his comment (about Prop 8): "When something needs to be done, we know how to do it."

Muscogean | 12:29 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

Brethren, stay out of the mainstream. With the black marks on our frontage its
best that we maintain the isolation we once knew "In Deseret's Sweet Peaceful
Land." 2008 was bad enough with PR bloopers...

Mr Bret | 12:37 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

Keep going Brethren...Samuel was not afraid to get on that wall either, even with arrows flying his way...he got the word out.

All you nay sayers...show some faith! May some of you should go stand on top of a wall too!

Good for the media involvement | 12:38 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

The LDS wanted to play in big times politics.

As often quoted "with each actions comes consequences."

Face it, outside of a few states in the West the church is liked or trusted.

I agree | 2:47 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

I think it's great to be in the media with a positive message. Present the information and let the people decide. I think the media is more sensitive now after the outrage after the slanted "hit piece" on PBS a couple of years ago.

And I've lived outside of Utah for 20 years in three different states. The church is very well respected everywhere I've lived.

However, I agree with earlier posts that if the church is "mysterious," it is only because of all of the misinformation out there. Why people go to non/Anti Mormons for answers about Mormonism is beyond me.

Re: Chino Blanco | 3:58 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

Weren't you on the ABC Blog before your anti-Mormon tirades were removed? I particularly liked that part.

soakblue | 5:18 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

I wouldn't call the PBS documentary from a few years back a "hit piece"--I thought it was reasonably fair. As long as the church is able to get its message out without unfair attacks and distortions, that's pretty much all you can ask for. Including honest critics' views is certainly not out of line. Anything's better than the garbage evangelicals tend to spew about the church.

JJ | 6:08 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

LDS think their church is perfect, yet they get things wrong sometimes. Therefore, it's not perfect. That's all anyone needs to know

Perfect? | 6:28 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

Since when has anyone in the LDS church claimed to be perfect? If they did, they were probably joking. The doctrine, I would have to say, is perfect, but only because the doctrine is taught by Christ Himself, the only perfect person to walk the Earth. I have never understood why the LDS church is attacked so frequently. Do we stand up for what we believe in? Yes. Is that a Constitutional right? Yes. Do I believe that the LDS church is led by a Prophet who receives direct revelation? No, and do you know why? Because I KNOW it is led by a Prophet who receives revelation. I only know it because I learned from the source of all Truth that that is true.

RE: JJ | 6:37 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

So what?

LDS don't equate inspiration with perfection. That's what other, uninformed, people do.

LDS don't think their church is perfect. Nor do they think it has to be in order to accomplish the work of God and service to others.

Imperfect, but inspired, people run an inperfect, but inspired, organization so that LDS members may help ohter members become disciples of Christ and so that LDS members may serve others in need.

Get informed.

David in CA | 6:56 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

I just viewed the ABC News video on the computer. I feel this was done in a "Fair" way. The photography was good too. The newstory did show brief "footage" of the Polygamous Fundamentalists, but the video did emphasize that they were and are a "breakaway" group of roughly 100 years ago. The Fundamentalist leadership does NOT "report to" or "acknowldge" the mainstream LDS Salt Lake City headquarters or leadership. I think the video got that point across. Analogy: That would be like the
Lutheran Church still reporting to the Roman Catholic headquarters. It's simply Not that way.

For a mainstream media story, I feel they (ABC) did do an objective/"no spin" job. It looks like the two LDS Apostles were a little "nervous" doing the interviews, but that's true of most people being interviewed by the National media. The late President Gordon B. Hinckley got pretty good at dealing with the mainstream media, but then he got a numbers of times to "get good" at it with the likes of CBS' Mike Wallace and CNN's Larry King and others.

God Bless the Apostles and the Presidency of the Church. God Bless America.

Anonymous | 6:58 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

So many of the comments are misguided, biased opinions of the church, based on hearsay from uninformed "haters" who seem to take pride in their vises.

thinkin out loud | 7:06 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

My belief is that there is only one person that ever lived that can get me into the promised land(heaven)not josepth smith not billy graham not oral roberts,not brigham young etc,etc,etc but JESUS CRIST only and no one else.if anyone has other beliefs then that is your problem.HAPPY NEW YEAR.

ROBERT | 7:33 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

I would have to agree with "Perfect?"'s post at 6:28pm. I don't think I have ever heard any LDS claim to be perfect.

But the gospel in the Book of Mormon does teach that you must become sinless (which would make you perfect) before a person can receive God's grace.
Moroni 10:32, "Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and IF ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness...THEN is his grace sufficient for you..."

Have you denied yourself of all ungodliness?

Do you know anybody that has denied themselves of all ungodliness?

RE: ROBERT | 8:36 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

I don't think "deny[ing] yourselves of all ungodliness" means you are perfect. I think it means having a change of heart, sincere repentance, a desire to do good rather than a desire to do evil. It doesn't mean we of ourselves are perfect, but rather we are "perfected in [Christ]" as we come unto him.

ROBERT | 8:51 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

The gospel in the Bible is much different than that of the Book of Mormon. Could be why ABC is focusing their cameras on the LDS Church?

The Bible says that God's grace is free and doesn't have to be earned or worked for, so you don't have to deny yourself of all ungodliness before you can receive God's free gift of grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9 says, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I believe that this is one of the reasons why Christian churches have such problem with the LDS faith is because God's grace is earned in the LDS faith and in the Christian faith God's grace is received through faith and not works.

Re: thinkin out loud | 9:11 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

You know what? I agree with you - and I'm an active member of the LDS church. Do you know what further? Most LDS believe believe this as this is what is taught in our church. If you heard otherwise from a LDS member then they do not understand the doctrine of the church. LDS do not worship Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Abraham, Issac, Noah, etc., etc. Members of the LDS church do not believe that these men intercede with the Father or Jesus Christ on our behalf. That is solely the work of the Savior Jesus Christ and it is only through his sacrifice that anyone can enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

LDS only revere Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and others who we consider Prophets for the work they did while on this earth to restore the Gospel of Jesus Christ and further that work here on earth.

ROBERT | 9:11 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

To re:ROBERT,

What is ungodliness, sin!

So to deny yourself of ALL ungodliness would mean to become sinless!
To become sinless would make you perfect.

Do you think that you or any person can become sinless in this life.

Not according to the Apostle Paul in Romans 3:10 & 23, There is none righteous, no, not one...For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Hoosier Coug | 9:20 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

Robert, again, you are mischaracterizing our beliefs. We agree with Ephesians 2:8-9. Grace is, indeed, a gift from God. There is not a one of us that can earn our way into Heaven. However, we believe that we must accept this gift from God through repentance. Those who have not accepted Christ would not desire to live with Him again. Conversely, someone who truly believes in Christ would do as he asked, namely to do his work and to repent.

ROBERT | 9:54 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

Thanks Hoosier Coug, I do appreciate your comments but the LDS church clearly spells out thru it's teachings and scriptures that God's grace has to be earned by the recipient before one can receive grace.

2 Nephi 25: 23 says, "...for we know it is by grace that we are saved, AFTER ALL we can do."

That means that grace comes to the recipient after all they can do and not before.

The LDS Bible dictionary page 697 states, "This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation AFTER they have EXPENDED THEIR OWN BEST EFFORTS. Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequesnce of the fall of Adam and ALSO because of MAN'S WEAKNESSES and SHORTCOMINGS. HOWEVER, grace cannot suffice without TOTAL EFFORT on the part of the RECIPIENT.

A gift means it is free not earned.

Has anyone ever asked you for the money they spent on your birthday gift they just gave you. If so then it wasn't a gift!

Grace and Works | 10:33 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

If grace was all that was needed, then every single person ever born would return to God and live with Him forever. That would include the mass murderers and those who don't believe in God and spend their lives fighting against anyone who does. Those people wouldn't be comfortable in His presence. Why would a just and fair God full of grace want people to suffer in His presence for eternity?

Even if I spent my life in the service of God continually, I still wouldn't be able to stand in His presence--as much as I might want to--because I would be a sinner. Everyone is. And sinners can't be in the presence of God. This is why He sent Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden. But I can repent. I can follow the commandments of God. When I do that, I have done all I can do. I have expended my own best effort.

But after I repent and live a good life as best I can, what allows me to be in the presence of God forever? God's grace does. By grace we are saved after all we can do.

To Grace and Works | 10:52 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

Well said.

patty | 11:02 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

Robert, would I assume then that you believe it is ok to do the typical temporal/worldly bad deeds, and then say, "Oh, well, I was only being human.God will forgive and save me anyway thru Jesus." I know you don't believe its that simple.

patty | 11:04 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

So, the next step in progressing in growth as a Christian (yes I said Christain!) is to realize that we must make the effort to be good, to resist evil, and to focus our all on being more like Jesus; then when we have a human failure, which we all have from time to time even with our best intentions, we repent and are heartily sorry for our misdeeds, and then give our best effort to not repeat that mistake again.

patty | 11:05 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

That is where the statement "AFTER ALL WE CAN DO, that grace is there before and during and after our weakness and human actions. As parents, we discipline our children with the same grace, we rebuke them in the moments of their misdeeds, and "love them up" soon after, extending an extra measure of love and acceptance to them as children of ours and of Heavenly Father, at the same time. That is us following the example of God's and Jesus' concept of grace as parents. It builds us up in humility and we know His amazing love for each of us thru that Grace. That is what the Lord does for us in his ability to forgive us thru grace for our shortcomings. Our efforts are important as we repent our misdeeds, continue to demonstrate actions in our lives of being more Christlike; (works) AND His Grace is ever present. Maybe rambling a bit but I hope you see my concept.

Nobody in Particular | 11:10 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

The whole grace and works thing is made complex or rather made to seem complex by comflicting dogma taught by rival churchs. If everyone is saved by Grace then why are we commanded to love our neighbors? Why if we were saved by Grace alone we could all stay at home and just sit there watching evil men laugh as they ruled the world, watching hungry children cry into the darkness.

But we are commanded in the New Testament to "Let our light so shine before the world, that they may see your good WORKS and glorify your father which is in heaven."

ROBERT | 11:17 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

To Grace and Works,

God's grace is all that is needed, "For by grace ye are saved THROUGH FAITH; and that not of YOURSELVES. (Ephesians 2:8)

Grace is all that you need but not every one will be saved because not everyone has faith in God.

Hebrew 11:6 says that without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE
To please God.

Jesus said in John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is comdemned already"

The Apostle Paul said in Galatians 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith in Jesus Christ, even we [the apostle Paul] might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Paul is saying that no one can be justified by keeping the commandments only by faith in Jesus Christ.

So the Apostle Paul is saying you can't be saved by grace after all you can do!

Anti-PC Infidel | 11:24 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

>The gospel in the Bible is much different than that of the Book of Mormon.

The gospel in the Bible is much different than that of most modern-day Christian churches.

There. Fixed it for you. The Catholic Church as well as Protestant churches are more Greek philosophy than they are New Testament doctrine.

Anti-PC Infidel | 11:33 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

>God's grace is all that is needed

Not only is that complete misreading of the scriptures evidence of an incredible degree of intellectual laziness, it is very good Buddhist philosophy as well. Congratulations. You're a Pure Land Buddhist!

ROBERT | 11:43 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

Thanks Patty, I do truly understand your concept but what happens if you repent of, lets say, lying and then later down the road you lie again?

D&C 58:43 says, "By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins-behold, he will forsake them."
President Kimball said, "The forsaking of sin must be a permanent one. True repentance does not permit making the same mistake again.
And D&C 82:7 says, "The Lord said: Go your ways and sin now more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return."

So if you say you have repented and then repeated that sin then according to these verse you truly didn't repent.

Another problem is that if you have lied many times in your life and repented each time and then lied again, then all your former lies will return to you.

So can you remember ever time you have lied in your life because you will have to repent of each of those lies again the next time you lie!

For by grace you are saved by faith, alone!

Growth continues | 3:40 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

This is why the LDS Church continues to grow, as people realize that the common perception of the Mormons is false and is based upon some popular rumors that are incorrect and, in many cases, lies that are spread about them (sometimes by religionists who should know better).

Dana | 8:16 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Robert,

As you said - faith is required. And "faith without works is dead". Faith is exercised, not simply had. You can believe in Christ and call that faith, but exercising faith implies acting on that belief. I can believe in Christ all I want, but when I cheat my neighbor or act in some other dishonest or impure way then say "Well I've accepted Christ, I'm saved"- that faith in Christ is pretty meaningless. Christ's atonement does not and cannot rob justice - it can only satisfy it.

If I'm working to live a Christ-like life, that faith enlivens and strengthens. I'll still make mistakes, of course, despite my best efforts to become Christ-like. But by exercising that faith in Christ - his grace makes up the difference - mercy can now satisfy the demands of justice. His atonement allows for a reconciliation between what is required to live with God and what I've actually been able to do.

This is immediate - as soon as I begin exercising faith in Christ through repentance that atonement is effective in my life - there is no waiting - he's there every step of the way as often as necessary.

To Robert | 1:39 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

I invite you to read James chapter 2. In part it says:

14-What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15-If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16-And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17-Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
19-Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20-But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

We could share scriptures back and forth without convincing each other. Instead we contradict each other, which drives away the very Spirit we both want in our lives. What it really comes down to is praying to God to know what is true.

I want to thank you for sharing your beliefs and point of view and allowing others to do the same.

ROBERT | 3:56 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Thanks Dana and "To Robert" for your comments,

I agree with both of you that faith without works is dead.
Maybe the question should be which comes first, is it that your works create your faith or is it as James says that your good works is a product of your faith.

Jesus said in John 15:5, I am the vine ye are the branches. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: FOR WITHOUT ME YE CAN DO NOTHING.
Jesus is saying that without faith in Him you can't do anything good.

The same goes with grace and works. Works wouldn't earn you grace but after receiving God's free gift of grace you will produce good works.

Infact the apostle Paul states in Romans 4:4-5 that if you try to gain grace through your works it is no longer grace.
"Now to him that worketh is the reward NOT RECKONED OF GRACE, but of debt. But to him that WORKETH NOT, but believeth on HIM that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Thanks to all of you for your kind words!

Chino Blanco | 7:15 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Re: Chino Blanco | 3:58 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009:

"Weren't you on the ABC Blog before your anti-Mormon tirades were removed? I particularly liked that part."

Yeah, you really enjoyed that, didn't you? Nothing like a little censorship to put a smile on your face.

In any case, considering that my "tirades" were not obscene, profane or even the least bit rude, I'm completely stumped as to why ABC would delete my comments. It's still legal to express an opinion in this country, isn't it? Or is somebody worried that my opinion might hurt your feelings? When did you become so fragile all of a sudden?

M-- | 9:36 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

I hope I'm not interrupting or anything, I just wondered- there seems to be the usual reading,here, of Paul's use of the term "works". He usually references, moderately specifically, the rites and rituals of the Jewish faith. And when he discusses grace, his descriptions tend towards using it as the impetus for charitable behavior- that if one has accepted Christ's grace in one's life, then one must act in accordance with that grace. James describes the same thing, just from the opposite angle; that one's behavior is what allows grace to take effect. The point that both make, is that charitable behavior (or desire, if actual behavior is impossible for whatever reason) acts together with the grace offered by Christ's atonement to provide salvation. Again, hope I haven't stepped on any toes...

Anonymous | 12:29 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Mormons have no business commenting on the "grace-vs-works" debate until they have become knowledgeable of the Biblical commentary of John Calvin. Without that understanding, you are speaking ignorantly into the wind and making fools of yourselves.

M-- | 12:53 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm more conversant with the early Christian and early medieval theologians than I am with reformation theologians who were primarily interested in countering 16th and 17th century catholic dogma...

M-- | 4:54 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

And now, having read the suggested commentary, I stand by my statement. A thorough critical analysis of Calvin's argument would be inappropriate here, but suffice to say that Latter-day Saints have a different interpretation of the relevant scriptures than the commentary cited above.

Help me understand | 1:29 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

So...God has been giving commandments from the beginning of time. Jesus spent his whole life doing good and being a perfect example of righteous living only to tell us that we're saved by grace and so we don't actually have to do anything or keep the commandments. Just say this little prayer and you'll be saved forever.

That just doesn't make sense.

Who do you think wants you believe that keeping God's commandments is optional, Jesus or Satan?

Now, since Jesus knows we can't possibly repent for each specific sin we commit, he puts us under covenant through baptism for the remission of sins. The covenants do not require immediate perfection, but require that we make a constant effort to always remember Christ in all that we do. As we do this, we retain the remission of our sins that we received at baptism.

Anonymous | 5:46 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009

To Help me understand,

Nobody said "keeping God's commandments is optional."

Go read Calvin, then come back and try again.

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