Deseret News | Demos find LDS silent on issues

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Demos find LDS silent on issues

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Cry Freedom! | 9:30 a.m. Jan. 9, 2009

Um, you people need to learn to accept outsiders and not be so cruel by telling others to get out of Utah, if they do not believe in Mormonism then so what? We all have our free agency if you people rightfully remember so?

Pete | 9:37 a.m. Jan. 9, 2009

Utah belongs to nonmembers, members, in-actives and all other faiths and people 'GOD OWNS UTAH' I personally welcome EVERYONE TO UTAH who comes here legally.

elaine | 9:36 a.m. Jan. 9, 2009

Thank heaven the LDS Church does use prudance in what it says about secular matters! With the power they COULD weild in the secular world we would have another Rome another Constantin. Separation of Church and State is essential to orderly governance. The Founding Fathers knew what they were talking about!

Comments continue below

re:Jim | 9:40 a.m. Jan. 9, 2009

Ah yes, Jim. The love it or leave it philosophy.. Your principles weren't loved in NY, IL, MO and are on their way to not being loved in Utah. I think it's time the mormons learned to love the rest of us before you are yet again, looking for a new home.

On a bright note, it appears that Bountiful, BC will have some room. Maybe try Canada?

@JIM | 10:03 a.m. Jan. 9, 2009

Thatï¿½s a nice way of telling people to get out of Utah. You people never fail to amaze me with all your sneaky business of gossiping and slandering others. Certainly your so called self deity which each of you make up is totally worthless, and it will never give you claim to any celestial kingdom, as you so brainwash yourselves into believing. What kind of manic do you take god for anyway? Do you not think that god watches each of you and all your sneaky, pitiful, and mean little deeds constantly towards others? I think it is nice if people would not use god so much in doing their dirty sinful works towards others, and then justify that is was done because god would agree. You are NOT GODS to make judgments of others.

The Truth | 10:16 a.m. Jan. 9, 2009

The fact is that the LDS Church is more compassionate in their stance toward gays than many of the conservative Christian religions/churches. Their stance is basically that; 1) they support female/male marriage, 2) acknowledge that homosexual tendencies are largely genetic, 3) plead for compassion, love and understanding from members, and 4) allow openly gay members to have full fellowship as long as they do not act on their homosexuality.

That is not only a much more liberal/compassionate stance than the Church had just a few years ago, it is also much more compassionate than many fundamental churches out there. The problem is that LDS involvement in Prop 8 resulted in a huge outpouring of member donations of time and money - far more than the other groups involved produced. That's usually just the way LDS members are when asked by their church to get involved. That involvement made the Church LOOK like they are the most extreme on this issue when in reality they are not. The real extreme partners of the Church on Prop 8 in reality hate the Church and have resumed ripping it as soon as LDS member's time and money were no longer needed.

History | 10:17 a.m. Jan. 9, 2009

Re Huff & Puff | 6:47 p.m. Jan. 8, 2009
"I don't believe Brigham Young was quite as mean as you are."

Depending on one's version of history and how it is written, could Brigham Young be mean or vengefull?

The date is September 11th, 1857 at a place called Mountain Meadows.
Let's now go forward to September 11th, 2001.

Religious fanatism at it's finest.

Aaron | 10:28 a.m. Jan. 9, 2009

That's great that the legislature is seeking enlightenment on controversial issues from the LDS leadership.

But the Church remaining relatively silent on some issues is its way of honoring separation of church and state.

When the leaders simply say "its a moral issue" maybe that's an invitation to do what Joseph Smith taught:

Study it out in your mind and ask the Lord in prayer if it be right...

What's wrong is wrong. | 11:13 a.m. Jan. 9, 2009

If God says something is wrong, it's wrong. And no amount of begging, prodding, criticizing, or legislating will ever make the wrong become right. And a true follower of that God will never budge from what's right, no matter what the majority, or the minority, claim or shout from the rooftops. God says homosexuality is wrong. And I challenge all gays and their direct blood offspring from their gay partners to prove me otherwise. When they can propagate the species as well as heterosexuals, society will consider your familial rights. In my opinion, God never will.

Leaders are citizens | 11:24 a.m. Jan. 9, 2009

Church leaders are voters too. They'd be hypocrites if they weren't active participants in the political process as they ask their followers to be. I don't see this as a gay/church issue. It's a gay hetero issue. And in the case of California, or anywhere else for that matter, if the majority rules, live with it, or actively work to change it. Don't blame any single entity for the majority of voters voting against your lifestyle. Blame the voters.

re: B. Young | 11:28 a.m. Jan. 9, 2009

Expect to take what you dish out. What goes around comes around.

Sheeeeesh! | 12:08 p.m. Jan. 9, 2009

What does this article have to do with gays? The gays are not the only ones shunned by members of the lds church, so are members and Non-members who don't fit in the lds mold. Quit giving all the gays so much attention. No body cares whatsoever about them, as long as they leave us normal ones alone. The gays can go start their own religion and then they can say to everyone that god told them to do it.

John Pack Lambert | 12:26 p.m. Jan. 9, 2009

To the 12:08 commentator,
It may be true that some members in Utah "shun" other people.
However in light of talks given in general conference by Gordon B. Hinckley and M. Russel Ballard to claim that this shunning of people is encoraged by the church itslef would be to put up a false claim.
The Church over and over again encorages its members to be good neighbors and reach out to other people.
The theories of colective guilt and uniform action advanced in some comments here are not supportable by a real analysis of situations.

RE: JPL | 12:35 p.m. Jan. 9, 2009

Why don't you just move to UTAH permanently and find out for yourself what it's like living here meaning you know everything!

Viper | 3:44 p.m. Jan. 9, 2009

Well as see it John Pack Lambert, you might as well be running for the highest church calling you can. Others do and do a much worse job about it then you do. I can just see it now---WE want to welcome Bishop John Pack Lambert to our newly called GA system. Wow, politicking is so much fun in the church.

Gma | 9:42 p.m. Jan. 9, 2009

30 second memory has it so confused I am wondering if he/she is living in the same country I am?
If homosexuals want to marry, and apparently some do, then they should live where it is legal.
Using the donation lists to Prop 8 to send unkind and ugly mail and telephone calls just proves what I have suspected all along.
The people demanding tolerance are intolerant and, in this instance, unbelievable crude.

RW | 9:42 a.m. Jan. 10, 2009

Respectfully, I submit that separation of church and state does not mean a church cannot speak out on what some may consider "political" issues. I think it means than neither a church nor a government may dictate to the other what they must do. That is miles away from prohibiting churches from making "political" statements. I submit that speaking out on "political" statements falls more under the "freedom of speech" part of the first amendment.

I believe that the Mormon church is actually quite reserved in speaking out on these kinds of issues. The article states, "Democratic state legislative leaders came out of their annual luncheon with LDS Church leaders this week with 'really great feelings personally', but little further enlightenment on church leaders' stands on specific issues to be dealt with in the 2009 Legislature, . . .".

I believe the church is intentionally reserved as it recognizes it's moral obligation to do so rather than speak out on every issue. Many other denominations are actually quite vehement and activist when it comes to "political" issues.

What I mostly hear from the pulpit is to vote! And that we should vote for wise and honest people.

One person's "God" | 9:58 a.m. Jan. 10, 2009

isn't another person's. This is the problem...other people don't believe that "God" actually tells you these things. We have as much right as anyone to think that way in fact more. The secular world is taking over fast and you had better learn to live with it. SLC UT is small compared to the rest of the world. And yes, it is fast taking over the Catholic world too.

Jude31 | 1:29 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

I would like to know why people say "if you don't like it here leave." I have lived here my entire life, I was raised mormon. I do not believe in the LDS church's teachings. So I should move? Very Christ like behavior. You preach love thy neighbor. You don't live it.

wesmanlv | 3:15 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

if the LDS church wishes to remain intolerant as usual (except with blacks the pressure finally got to them)they should find a new place to go - that wouldn't be a first for them - imagine that the once untolorated has become the intolorant -what a concept

Patricia Alberson | 6:29 p.m. Jan. 10, 2009

I live in Jacksonville Fl. I have been a member for over 15 years and not once have I been told by any church member or church authority how to vote or what party to join.
We vote our conscence. As a believer in Jesus Christ I can only support things that are conservative , things that support Christian values.
We live in a country where we can and hopefuly vote conscence.
Is not Harry Reed a Democrate and a Latter Day Saint?

Re: wesmanlv | 8:44 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009

We already did find a new place to go. It was called Utah.

not told to do anything? | 5:21 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

"I have been a member for over 15 years and not once have I been told by any church member or church authority how to vote or what party to join."

Church members were not only told how to vote, but how to spend their time during prop 8. It was only after the vote that the church said "we know members might vote differently based on their life experiences."

They are very good at semantics and it can be said they didn't TELL members how to vote, but any one with a 6th grade education knew what was expected. The only thing the church spokesman said before the prop 8 vote was that no one will have church action taken against them for voting against prop 8. Gee, thanks a lot.

Aaron | 9:09 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

RE: 5:21pm Jan 11,

There is a difference between being advised or encouraged, and being forced.

If you truly believed in a cause, wouldn't you try to encourage those around you to act toward that cause?

To: not told to do anything? | 9:14 p.m. Jan. 11, 2009

Wow, you mean you were actually expected to live up to your covenants and support your leaders and church doctrine? Harsh!

Come on - | 11:17 a.m. Jan. 12, 2009

No one should feel guilty choosing to take a different stand than the church leaders - particularly around a ploitical issue. It is okay and expected that members actually think. The greater sin is to live your life like a robot depending upon SLC for all your decisions. Chances are that particular stand by the Church will change in your lifetime anyway. What is that phrase - "we teach them correct principles and they govern themselves." Many members live their lives entirely dependent upon local and general church guidance.

Anonymous | 12:10 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

Re: wesmanlv | 8:44 a.m. Jan. 11, 2009
We already did find a new place to go. It was called Utah.

---------
Well your becoming outnumbered here. Try finding a new place. I hear there is an abandoned temple in Texas. Have you looked at the moon? That would be a great place for all Mormons to go!

can't we all be nice? | 12:48 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

For all the people that have come on this blog doing the normal bashing mormons thing, I think you have all hit a new low by trying to kick us out of a Utah. And for everyone throwing a hissy fit over the fact that the legislative met with the LDS Church officials it's been happening ever since Utah became a state. Heck, even Presidents of the USA have met with LDS Church officals even when our ancestors where being kicked out of other states.
For all of teh members getting on here and being un-Christ like-way to help people throw more punches at us.

**Everyone-not just non members will be judged on how we treat others, so I suggest we all get a little bit nicer.

Seattleview | 8:29 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

two things:

I dont think the "separation of church and state" phrase is part of the constitution. I believe it came from an old (1940-50) vintage Supreme Court case in which the chief justice stated that this should be the goal of the country / law. That was interesting to me.

Next, this article stated that an older daughter wanted this new class of civil unions to be made legal so she could add her ill mother and sister to her health insurance. Is that correct? Talk about a disaster for health insurance. I hope she doesnt work where I work because that would kill my companies health costs.

Don't care any more | 9:43 p.m. Jan. 12, 2009

"If you truly believed in a cause, wouldn't you try to encourage those around you to act toward that cause?"

It doesn't seem duplicitous to you to never say during the campaign "we believe members might vote differently based on their live experience" but WAIT UNTIL THE DAY AFTER and then say it? Some of us had compelling reasons for voting otherwise....based on our live experiences....we agonized over the vote...our agony didn't matter to them. They only cared about passage or not.

From now on, I don't care what they think or say.

From all the wonderful comments on DesNews during the campaign, many members pompously post "it is the weeding our process", "good riddance". To you, I say good bye as well. You have shown this convert your true colors.

John Pack Lambert | 12:34 a.m. Feb. 24, 2009

but of course, I live in Michigan and am just making my best guesses on what is actually going on in Utah.

On another note, I was so pleased to see Sean Penn win best oscar for Milk. It think this is a very important film and he was amazing in it.

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