Comments about ‘No shock: We're last in per-pupil spending’

It just goes to show money spent has nothing to do with results. What is the most important result of education? Quality of life, and Utah is #1 in that area. Our economy rocks the rest of the country. Enough said. The other states spending more gets them no observable benefit. California spends nearly the most per student, and look at their worthless economy. Their government is nearly bankrupt, and their cost of living is out of control. Utah is the best at everything apparently. Including thriftiness. And that is smart.

Last again.

We make excuses but we could fix this problem if it really mattered to us.

Instead we buy more SUVs and build more McMansions.

Pathetic.

We hear this at least four times a year, once at least from

- National Center for Education Statistics
- Census Bureau
- Utah Foundation
- Somebody else

Stack Em' Deep and Teach Em' Cheap!! Utah buys a Yugo, gets a Buick, and complains it's not a Cadillac.

We won't move back to Utah due to this very fact. Class sizes are larger than most states and "accepting" the fact that Utah underfunds education exposes the myopia of the legislature and Board of Education. Park lands and other non-revenue generation areas? Give me a break. Utah has gotten by on so little for so long that they don't want to re-evaluate how education is funded.

Just once I would like to see one of these funding studies take into account that we have a large percentage of our students out one period a day for released time religious instruction. If the funding studies took that into account Utah would likely not be last. As a great man once said, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Shame on people who knowingly use this legerdemain. Some of us are not fooled.

Rand, yes we would.

And we are not #1 in results. We are about in the 48th percentile.

The reason we don't do better is because no one wants to hurt the feelings of our neighbors - the teachers. It's not about the teachers. The teachers do a fantastic job with what they have and what they give out of their own pockets (SHAME). What it's about is a legislative base who has consistently under funded our schools. That's all there is to this.

As much as we hate the idea, we also need to have more kids in private school. The nation is at about 10%. We are far below this. That makes a world of difference. But, the good people of Utah were handed a load of garbage regarding vouchers....and ended up stabbing themselves in the foot there.

We have a mess.

But, as I home taught my kids for so many years, I was told over and over that school is about the social....I was ridiculed constantly. So, why are y'all worrying about the education? It's really just about the social, right?

The hypocrisy from our elected LDS leaders BLOWS my mind. Always has, always will.

How do they figure the amount spent per pupil? Do they just use the WPUs or do they take into account district level property takes and such? Why don't they report on how the figure is calculated?

We might be the last in the nation in per-pupil spending.

But we are #1 in bankruptcy rates!

We are the best of the best when it comes to economic failure.

A connection between the two statistics?

Rand, I think you have it backwards. If we were to eliminate release time from the schedule, it would in fact necessitate the hiring of about 10-12% more teachers or increase class size to far past the rediculous numbers we already have. Essentially, what release time does is takes about 60-70% of the grade 9-12 students out of school for a class period and puts them where someone else pays the teacher's salary. Release time actually saves Utah an incredible amount of money, allowing us to take our $5,963 and spread it over 5 classes instead of 6.

Good for Utah, keep it that way. Most of the education dollar is wasted anyway. And most of what is taught in the public schools is wrong anyway, so that "learning" has to be later undone. Keep the per pupil amount where it is, and bring back the vouchers. Why do we kowtow to public education anyway, it is so bad, and controlled by everyone but the parents.

. . . we get, it sounds like we are spending about the right amount. What's all the fuss?

I'm sure UEA will use this figure to attempt to shame us into spending more. But that would only enrich them without any particular benefit to the system.

Like I said, saounds like the amount is about right.

And just where does Utah rate in academic achievement, college graduates, etc. Some things just don't take money.

You are all ignoring the second assertion of the article, that ELL students are rapidly increasing. Utah has been able to do more with less because we were not experiencing the problems brought on by multicultural issues. Well, that day is ending.

ELL students cost MORE to educate than the average student. They increase the load on teachers and require much more individual attention than traditional students. And I will get booed for this, but certain demographics of ELL students are connected with increased crime, drug abuse and teen pregnancy.

Vouchers, home schooling and WPU discussions are just whistling in the dark. Our culture and society is about to undergo a catastrophic shift and no one is braced for the impact.

What do the LDS leaders have to do with this?

We buy more SUVs and more McMansions? Quit trying to steal my money!!!! Yes, we have a lot of children in Utah families. Instead of looking at one statistic -- the amount of per pupil spending -- why not look at a more honest statistic -- the amount of per capita spending in the state. Then use the per capita spending as a percentage of the average income in the state. Compare all states and see what percentage of our income is spent on education.

I'm tired of the teachers being the only ones that write a response to this. Yes, they do a fantastic job with what they have and they spend their own money. However, money doesn't grow on trees and we are spending a good deal of our money on education. You will ALWAYS find it convenient to look at the per pupil spending as a way to ask for more money. However, let's see how much we are spending per capita and how that stacks up percentage wise against other states. We will always need dedicated teachers that understand our situation with large families.

Anybody that says we are getting it right and is satisfied with the results we are getting, needs to wake up.

We have a very large amount of teachers closing in on retirement.

Our Universities are training enough new teachers if those teachers would stay in Utah. Unfortunately they don't.

Each of the last few years the shortage has become worse. If we don't boost starting pay by about another $10,000 we won't keep seeing the results we get now.

I'm not saying all teachers need that kind of raise but beginning teachers sure do if we are going to fill the gaps.

This article would worry me if per-pupil spending were an indication of educational success.

Fortunately it is not.

It's amazing how parochial schools, particularly Catholic schools can do so much better with a fraction of the money the public schools get. What is amazing is how little of that $5,963 is spent on direct classroom expenses. A class of 21 kids generates over $125,000. And some classes are larger resulting in more revenue. But the individual classroom receives little of that money. Say a teacher makes $50,000 in salary and benefits, what happened to the other $75,000? School lunches, administrative, other support staff and busing, although I wonder how many kids need busing. Keeps parents away from their kids school when students travel a distance to attend. The parents are still expected to pay fees for tech and books on top of all that, not to mention school supplies...

No, we should not keep it that way.

We should look at what other states are doing. Specifically those states that are out-performing Utah.

Utah does not have the corner on the market for academic success.

Vouchers are not the answer. If you don't want your kid to attend public school. Pay for it yourself.

I don't work in public education, but I see the societal value in a solid public education system.

The problem is that Utah does not invest in infastructure, and I count education as an infastructure investment. Utah has slid in academic performance just as spending has slipped.

The best comment of the day:

"Utah is #1 in Bankruptcies!"

That has got to be the best comment ever!