Deseret News | Reader comments: High school refs have difficult job

Reader comments
High school refs have difficult job

Open your EYES | 4:58 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

To the Utah High School Activities Assoc.

Dear Gentlemen
You want good officials, then pay them. I have heard from the UHSAA that officials should not be in it for the money. Get Real! I don't any official that is there because they just want to be a part of the sport. Oh you will here officials say they are not there for the money, but that is all eye wash, you know the correct thing to say.

Here is an example: Football officials are required to be a game site 1 1/2 hours before the game, they are paid $50.00 for the game fee. Travel time from either home or job is not included. Officials will put in 6 hours total to officiate that game, during football season gas was $4.28 per gallon, that is just a side note.

You want good officials in all sports, PAY THEM. Another thing, quit using the same officials over and over again for your tournaments, quit protecting the good ol boys. Mr. Petty, you are a good ol boy, its time you open your eyes.

Clueless | 6:33 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

You must be kidding, you want to know why you can't get good officials and officials to stay. This is not 35 years ago when good official were around and they stayed, officials like Ball, Bero, Toole, Busico, Mendini, Burke, Hale and the list goes on. Times have changed, now its about MONEY. You require officials to attend summer camps and pay for it, out of their own pocket. Summer camps are run by coaches that have teams pay to play. The officials that work these camps should be graded and learn something from them, but they should also be paid for it. You want more officials, believe it or not, its a JOB, pay them for it.

From an official | 6:57 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

I am an official now, and while I can truly say that I love the sports I oficiate, the money is definitely an issue. I also definitely believe there is a good ole boy problem, especially with football and basketball. The same guys do get all the good games. But one real problem is that there really is no mentoring program set up where the experienced officials work with and train the newer officials. If an experienced official was paired with a newer official (even for several games) the newer official would gain confidence and perhaps even the desire to stay with it as he or she learns to handle difficult situations, fans etc.

Comments continue below

Wake Up Utah | 7:32 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

At 34 cents per mile and 50 dollars a game your not going to get good refs or refs that want to stay. Times have changed. I wonder what the UHSAA gets paid when they travel. Its lucky the gas prices came back down or you wouldnt have any refs that wants to travel. When gas was 4.20 dollars a gallon, the price of travel wasnt even talked about. Do you think that rural Utah is going to get good refs. No, when region play begins all the top notch refs will stay in the city areas, the new ones will have to be forced to travel. Utah wakeup do a survey from other states findout what the refs are paid for games and travel and bring Utah up to that average. Every year its the same debate about officials but nothing is ever done. Go ahead Utah keep losing refs, its the kids that are going to pay. The schools and the UHSAA have to put on their big boy pants and start paying the officials.

knowwhat | 7:49 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

I thought soccor was such a nice sport. Thats what parents tell me, because they don't want thier children playing football.

Leprechaun | 8:40 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

...and where do you think all this money will come from, my pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? In case you have not noticed, schools are broke.

In it for the money | 9:17 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

All involved with youth sports should be compensated for their time at a fair rate. Coaches should receive compensation for spending time after school coaching the teams. Officials should be fairly compensated for their efforts as well. We always hear that club coaches are only in it for the money, they also should be compensated as they have to pay for gyms, insurance, etc.

If we want qualified people dealing with our youth's sports we need to adequately compensate them.

where do we get money? | 9:19 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

I agree that officials aren't paid enough. I'm a high school coach who officiated for a couple of years. I've been involved in athletics for 16 years. One thing that many of you don't know is that the high schools pay for the officials. Some sports such as soccer or baseball don't even take gates. Freshmen/sophs rarely charge to see their games but it still costs to pay the officials. I know in our school for one year it cost $36000 to pay for just officials which is about what the school took in for gates. Football brings in the most money but they don't see the gates because other sports don't make enough to pay for their officials. I agree totally that officials aren't paid enough, I also have seen the other end. I'm just not sure what the solution is.

Leprechaun | 9:46 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Schools are broke......get real.....look at the miles spent on sending teams all over the state to play, the new gyms and score boards, look at the sports new uniforms, plus the hiring of people in the school systems that are not needed. The list is endless, instead of whining about the game last nite and how the officials took it away from you, do something to make it better. Three person crews, or better yet donate your time and go and officiate. Hey I have one for you instead of sending 3 or four coaches to coach a team, plus the wage to hire a substitute teacher while they are gone, lets cut that back and pay the official.

NorCal | 10:22 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

I am a fan that had kids in the system, that ran football operations, that officiated before my kids participated.
1) The school(s) find the money if they want. They spend extra with money coming out of the gate, snack bar, fundraisers. When officiating becomes a priority over sweats, shoes, camps, etc - the money's there.
2) Once the officials enjoy it again, they will be back.
3) You will still have problems with calls, some parents, etc. How the school deals with it will make it work or not. Our school typically has 3-4 administrators at basketball games and they police both fan bases. Once the fans realize it is happening they mellow. We have seen 5-6 ejections over the years and it definitely mellows the crowd out.

Now we just watch and enjoy. We know the officials and their tendencies. Our favorite crew is a bald, tattooed ex-player who loves to tweak the home team's coach. Home team gets very few calls in the third quarter. His partner is the great equalizer, losing team gets lots of leeway. The other prominent ref here is by the book and always uses an obscure rule or two each game.

Anonymous | 10:42 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

I officiated high school basketball for eighteen years. I finally got out because of the politics. It is ridiculous to have officials evaluating officials. Just how good of an evaluation am I going to give another official when it is my spot that he might be taking. Get rid of the majority of the politics and you will retain more officials.

Use officials for the state tournaments who have earned the right to be there, not because they are one of the good ole boys. The teams have to earn there tournament berth, officials need to do the same.

Money | 11:01 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Where does the UHSAA get their money to operate? Do the schools pay into the program. If the schools pay into the UHSAA to pay for people like Mike Petty then the money should be there to pay for officials. I know schools have money to pay teachers to be at the games, and the teachers don't even stay the whole game. Truth is the teachers make more money than the officials do at the game.

The officials need to band together and just tell the schools what the cost will be, not the schools telling the officials what they are willing to pay. Maybe its the officials that need to wake up. Instead of worrying that you might not get a game, stand up and say this is how much money we are willing to work for, and quit brown nosing to get games. You officials have all the cards, play them.

Retired official | 11:06 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Mike Petty

Are you getting any of this.

Not worth it | 11:31 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

I refereed high school football and had enough. No matter what you call on the field 50% of the fans are not going to be happy. I had unhappy fans follow me to my car questioning my calls on the field of play and was called plenty of names walking off of it.

Being a spectator in the stands the last few years, I feel sorry for those who ref games. Most high school fans are ignorant of the rules and think every call is a plot against their school getting the win.

Getting good referees should be a priority over sending schools on away to trips to Christmas B-ball tourneys.

Compliments to Amy | 11:58 a.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Good piece, Amy. I coach and officiate high school soccer and enjoy both most of the time. 90% of the soccer officials I have worked with are good people and do a good job. Kudos.
As a coach, I will not schedule games with teams where the coach exhibits bad behavior. As an official, I will not take an assignment to a school with a reputation for poor behavior.
I think a significant problem for soccer is recruiting new officials. I have seen no evidence of the UHSAA implementing an effective recruiting plan. They occasionally ask us to find new officials, but there is no method, outreach or plan. It would help if did some real marketing.
Soccer fans aren't perfect but are usually less abusive than football and basketball. Recently, the high schools have had an administrator present at soccer matches. That has helped.
As to the money, while it could always be better, there are just so many demands on the school budget it is hard to take from Peter to pay Paul more. The schools are making a good effort to improve.

Retired Soccer Ref | 1:43 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

It may not be all about the money, but the money is important. So is crowd behavior. Why am I retired? It just wasn't worth it anymore. I miss the game, but not the bad behavior. I've seen players cringe at what their parents yell, but it seems that very few want to do anything about it.

Amy, great article!

Sorry | 2:41 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

I have been one who does yell at times. I am not sure if it the money thing or not in having quality refs. The one thing that I am sure of however is that the rural schools in girls basketball has the poorest quality of refs doing their games. I will do better at not complaining. My remarks can use some quality improvement.

continued | 2:51 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Money is not the problem here. Parents are the problem for our officiating crisis. These people who pay $3-5 (or even free at many events) to get into a high school game think they can check their humanity in at the door. I love high school sports but when I attend a game I am forced to sit as far away from the parents as possible. Paying officials more is not going to give them thicker skin. We need consequences for parents and fans that can't control themselves. We need administrators with thick skin and require them to get in the stands and keep their fans under control. Instead, we let the parents run out officials and coaches.

Solution | 5:10 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

If finding refs is a problem and this article is geared toward solving this issue; shouldn't we be talking about the benefits/requirements for joeschmoe like me of becoming a ref?

What does it take?
How much does a ref make per game (each sport)?
I know a B-ball ref can call a T on the fans, but what about other sports? Is there a punishment/incentive for a coach/school to keep their fans in check?

At least the crowd is not throwing batteries at you like they do in some countries.

Where do I sign up?

tried it | 6:35 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

I officiated basketball at almost every level for many years. I finally left it after the good old boy deal got to me also. One time we used non official, unbiased observer crews to rate officials, but when the old timers (good old boys) didn't rate well the system was scaped (do you remember that era Mr Jim Gilbert)I would love help out, because I was a pretty good ref, but not until that all changes and it doesn't sound like it ever will

Well paid | 7:47 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

I disagree that officials aren't paid enough. Actual payscales can be viewed on the UHSAA website.
Football and basketball officials get $55 per game plus mileage. Very few games last much over 2 hours. That's an average of $27.50 per hour plus mileage. What other part time job pays that well. No they are not required to be there 1 1/2 hours early. In fact I often see officials show up late (especially wrestling officials). I think they are being paid the appropriate amount, however, no amount of money warrants the abuse they often receive by the fans.

fdg | 8:21 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

I worked football and b-ball for 26 years here in Ariz. and to hear WELL PAID say that the Ref is paid wel. I would sometimes travel 150 miles one way to work games. Non was less than 1hr. away. If you were paid on a round trip for the 55.00 and 6hrs. travel you would make 8.33 per hr. + the wear and tear on your car. For both sports I put between 5and 6 thousand miles on my vehicle.I realize that Az. is diff than Utah.with the pay but I never got 55.00 per game. It is harder now because the team play a different type of game. The kids are bigger and faster and parents are feeling that they know the game better. They watch way to much pro ball and the rules are different and people go nuts over every call. Hang in there REFS of America things may get better and I appreciate the job you do. The kids need you to do the best you can do under trying conditions.

Stand Up | 9:57 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Come on UHSAA, stand up and make the call here, it sounds like you are being trashed here. Who is in charge of this organization? Mr. Petty, lets hear from you, how about what these readers are saying, is this true or our people just blowing smoke. This is the best reading, straight from the people and not the reporter, all though give the reporter credit for the information.

It sounds to me that there are many problems, not only in finding and keeping good officials, but in the management of how officials are graded and assigned games, and just what do people mean by the "good ol boys." Mr. Petty, can you explain just what that means. I am sure there is more than one person that works for the UHSAA, what do you do there, and where does the money come from to support your organization, if its the schools, just how much do schools pay to belong to your organization.

The Refs sound like they need more of a voice, but on the other hand it also sounds like they can't trust each other. Anyway, lets hear from the UHSAA.

Texas Official | 10:17 p.m. Dec. 29, 2008

Just completeed my 12th year of officiating football. Here is Texas the offcials are payed by the gate. A typical 4A or 5A football game is $125. Hard to believe schools are broke at least out here where most districts are building $30 Million dollar football stadiums. We have over 600 football officials in Dallas alone. Politics will always be a part of the assignment process. Here we conduct a coaches draft which allows the coaches to mutually agree on the crews to work the games. Of course you still got crews whining why they can't get games. Officiating is a great way to stay connected with the game, if you love the game give it a try.

Mark | 1:20 a.m. Dec. 30, 2008

For the official who thinks refs are 'well paid', yes we are, paid with grtitude that you benifited some young peoples lives. Officiate, coach, mentor, teach, do it for them, do it for yourself, but do it.
Mark Ojai, CA

Howard Wilkin | 9:57 a.m. Dec. 30, 2008

Some of the comments here are unbelievable. "Good old boys?" Is it possible that the same officials who get the "good" games are the most qualified refs? Is it possible that those who complain the loudest are the same ones who can't or won't look in the mirror and see what they lack in their officiating ability? Are they the same ones who get fair and unbaised evaluations and still never change the way they ref? Is it possible that they are the reason that they don't get the "good" games and that it has NOTHING to do with Mike Petty?

Mike Petty is a stand-up guy. He is doing a GREAT job. Games are covered according to need and officials have never been better assigned in this state.

Those of you who want to lay this all at the feet of Mr. Petty had better take a long and honest look at yourselves first. Officiating HS sports is often a thankless job, but those of us who have done it for years and love it do it to give back to a game we love.

CurrentRef | 11:03 a.m. Dec. 30, 2008

It is trulely a thankless job, but I don;t consider it a job, if it is something you love.

If you do the best you can, then you shouldnt have to worry about what the fans say. It wont matter if every call you make is correct, 1/2 the fans will always disagree.

1/2 or more of the refs who dont like getting yelled at, are probably also the fans at other games who are also doing the yelling, LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

Granted, the coaches and refs do need to do a better job of setting an example, and evaluations of refs need to be done, but done correctly, honestly, and continually. Better games should be given to the most qualified, not by simply by the years of service.

If you cant move up and down the court because of any reason, you shouldnt be out there. Be fit, in position, and give it your all.

Again, look in the mirror.

Parents should be tossed if need be, and should be there to enjoy the game and support your child, not belittle the refs. If parents can do better, DO IT.

CurrentRef | 11:21 a.m. Dec. 30, 2008

Further note

So many problems now a days are created because there is no self responsibility taken, which is passed down to their children which take no responsibility for their actions.

Every one blames everyone else for what they themselves did.

Law suit this, law suit that, pull the trigger, then plead not guilty, just in the hopes of getting off.

If you do something, OWN UP TO WHAT YOU DID, or DONT DO IT.

Be honest, be responsible, lead by example, and do your best.

Sooner or later your skills diminish, (if you ever had skills), just like every pro athlete, and there is a time to move on.

How would the fans in the stands like it if they are at work, and in front of all of their peers, their boss yelled at them and belittled them for every mistake they made.

Think about it! Humans do make mistakes, and see things differently from each other.

sports fan | 11:57 a.m. Dec. 30, 2008

As a coach and parent of high school athletes, I know refs aren't perfect. But what bothers me the most is the "holier than thou" attitude officials have. I really apprectiate those refs who are apporachable during the game and acknowledge mistakes or will take a look at something for me. So many refs put on the stripes and it is all about them. A great refereed game, is when after the game no one is even talking or thinking about the refs.

CurrentRef | 12:27 p.m. Dec. 30, 2008

Totally agree. I appreciate comments and questions from coaches and even players when they are directed in a professional manner.

But any fan, player, or coach who thinks every call should go their way, or that calls should be equal, is mistaken.

A properly called game is equally officiated, with no advantage to either team. One team will most likely have more fouls, because they are more aggressive.

And there will be calls that might look incorrect, but the teams that continue to play through the good and bad calls, will more than likely win (or feel better about how they lost).

Most refs will not make an improper call on purpose, they will just interpret the call incorrectly, and mistakes will be made. We are human.

There is no replay, and with two (or 3) refs on the court to watch 10 players and listen to the coach, not everything is or will be seen. (SORRY)

Refs that think the game is about them, should be evaluated and corrected on their actions, and appropriate action taken.

The game is about the players and for the fans, refs are there to try to keep the game under control.

The CHief From Cali | 2:26 p.m. Dec. 30, 2008

I started out working games in college. Lucky me, I worked with some top officials on the west coast.
Officiating is one of the more difficult advocations a person can undertake. It requires study,hard summer camps (used to improve) time away from your work ,family and the cost of equiptment. I have learned that you can only work your best and let the players work the game The best games I have worked are the ones where no one remebers your calls. Oh and for those who think it is easy, please give it a try!
This is my 26th year and I have had a wonderful time working high school and college games. I have worked at the Big Ten level, talk about crowds at fever pitch! Too bad there are places that still do not see the need for qualified referees.

LINDA IN VA | 6:38 a.m. Jan. 1, 2009

I REALLY ENJOY DOING GAMES IT THE BEST THING I HAVE EVER DONE AND I ENJOY IT VERY MUCH. YET IT
SEEMS LIKE MOST OF US HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM
IT A GOOD OL BOY CLUB I WORK BASKETBALL AND SOFTBALL
AND IF YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THE""GO OLE BOYS YOU GET THE CRUMBS FROM THE TABLE
SOME GUYS GET GAMES EVERY DAY AND THE REST GET NOTHING. YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TO BEG TO GET GAMES
FROM THE MAN IN CHARGE.IT REALLY HARD TO BREAK INTO THE ""GROUP"""

Bobby T from NC | 10:30 a.m. Jan. 1, 2009

I've read all of this very intensely and have come to one conclusion IT IS THE SAME EVERYWHERE! We have the same problems that everyone else has with Pay, GOOD OLE BOYS,FANS,COACHES, ADMINISTRATORS,and what is the solution. All I know there is no real solution that will work for everybody one will always say that not fair to us. I've been Officiating for 27 years Football, Basketball, Baseball, and Softball from youth league to college to semi-pro and have enjoyed it for the most part. But lets dont kid ourselves" it wasn't for the money" but what I do get it helps. To the person that said we get payed well let's see for starts we have to register with the state or organizations or conferences and associations that is roughly about a thousand dollars. Than there are the books or study materials and studying time which is about 2 hours a day plus each organization has it own books so that is about 15 different books. Then there is the uniforms and equipment, transportation the car, gas, tires, and insurance thats free{joke}. Lets dont forget laundry, ironing, polishing of shoes and cleaning of equipment. That is just for starts.

Bobby T from NC | 11:10 a.m. Jan. 1, 2009

I travel about 30 thousand miles a year if I got payed a perdiem that would be 10200 dollars but i don't. Now lets see I work third shift so that i can officiate high school and college games so I usually start off about 1 1/2 hours getting ready and heading to games than depending on the game arriving to the game early for pregame conference between officials than doing the game than I have the drive home. Lost time from family can't even figure into this so you think we get payed well it is less that minimum wage would you work for this? So to say that the love of the game has to figure in would be right. That's just my part not everyone does it like that but it is my choice. Now lets talk about the fans the worst thing that has happened to sports are the pro sports bar none. They have totally different rules than the books that I have to study. Then I have to listen to your ignorance for the rules and when you bash me for not knowing yours. I have to take a HUGE DEEP BREATH

Bobby T from NC | 11:39 a.m. Jan. 1, 2009

To keep from lashing back but I try to treat the same way I would like to be treated but you have to be willing to listen when I try to explain you the rule. BUT IT IS VERY HARD SOMETIMES. BUT what everyone forgets we are out there for the kids/ young adults. Just remember rather they are 5 or 21 they are kids who pay attention to what their parents do so your actions are being watched and will guide them in the future "IS YOURS WORTH COPYING." But one word to officials "TREAT PEOPLE THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED OR YOUR CHILD TO BE TREATED WE ARE NOT GODS AND IT ISN"T ABOUT US" Now to the Good Ole Boys and the booking adjents I booked and I can tell you that Good Ole boys that kept my but out of the sling they were ready to work anytime,anyplace without griping also kept the complaints down and they were good friends but i will have you know it cost me in the long run. I wish I would have done it more fairly worked people more evenly. You just have to keed plugging along.

Bobby T from NC | 12:06 p.m. Jan. 1, 2009

keep calling or emailing your booking agent and asking why am I not getting games make him explain or give you a reason. If he is truthful or truely doing his job he will talk to you. Remember BOOKING AGENTS you are paid by the officials {the same} for you to book them so be honest with treat them the way you would like to be treated. You can keep officials or drive them away so be fair and you will find out they will be true to you. Officials if you have a problem with booking agents talk to them dont just go behind their backs it doesn't make it good for anyone it just undermines it all. One more problem evaluations should be dore by a group not just one person and to those getting one use it as a learning experience to better your skills not as a tool to make you mad{ check your feelings at the door} be the bigger person improve by what they give you to work on in the long run you will be a better official. Thanks for listening

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.