Comments about ‘Quality teachers are key to reform, state report says’

Like all this is a surprise.

I waited for education to be energized after 1991's national "Education at Risk" report. It turned out to be a bust.

I hear the same "it's not my problem" tango when I read phrases like "we can't do everything now."

We would have had more for our long-term buck had we invested even half of the money for that hideous war into education.

What a shame.

How does the new program, Alternative Route to Licensing, in which a person with a bachelor's degree in ANYTHING can go into a classroom, with no education training, no child development courses, no student teaching experience, and no iota of educational background, work ("teach") for a few years and get a teaching license qualify as "quality teachers", the keep to reform? It's a nightmare! Everybody suffers--especially the students who are at the mercy of this poorly conceived experiment. Does anybody ever think about the children anymore?

I think a stable family life goes even further, but no one wants to mention that reality. It is not politically expedient to remind the public of their common failures.

Same old story will produce the same old results.

We know that it requires good teachers. We know that we will get good teachers if we pay a decent salary. We won't pay a decent salary for some reason.

How many committees do we need coming up with the same conclusion? This same story must appear 5 or 6 times a year.

The legislature likes to experiment with education every year. Unfortunately they haven't yet tried the one experiment that will produce the desired results....Pay a GREAT salary and get our best people into education.

It is that simple.

Instead we try to give the least possible and hope for the best.

Insane.

The problem they are facing in this state is a on-going increase in the birth rate with education not being valued in this state. You can talk about it all you want but your best teachers don't stay in the classroom unless they have a spouse earning a great job (and their income is secondary). Instead they move into either administration or they move into district positions because both pay so much more. A principal should only make more because of the amount of hours they work, not because we value them more than a teacher. If this state wants quality teachers it will cost them around $50k to $55k. Won't happen because people in this state don't value education.

Is that most people in this state don't understand that teachers are paid on a contract of around 180 days or so, for 7 hours a day, period. The prep, grading and other commitments they do not get paid for. People say teachers are paid well for what they do. Sure. If you have a bachelors you can go get a starting job from $40k to $50k starting a year (depending on the job). You get a MBA or other masters and that jumps up to $60k to $100k. In teaching a masters with around 15 years of teaching pays around $45 to $50 and it takes 10 years to break even on the investment. It's basically worth an extra $1000 a year or so. Yep, that drives quality. Bottom line, we wont' get top students wanting education unless you pay them and allow them to have time off from teaching, it is a very draining job in every way and they need time to refresh and prepare.

I teach at a University and I can tell you that the students at my school who pursue teaching are the worst of the lot. I wish these Republican legislators would apply the same business model to education that they do to other positions of government: To recruit and retain the BEST teachers, you have to pay them a competitive wage. Sadly, that model only seems to apply to government positions the legislators deem worthy of funding.

I finished at BYU with my Elementary Ed degree in 1997 and could not find work in the state. I was willing to start at the bottom of the pay scale, at that time $22500. But I wasn't hired. I thought I was a shoe-in since I was male and wanted to teach in an elementary school. Once I was not hired I pursued a tech job; now I'm earning Five Times what I would be had I remained in a classroom, and that's just a shame to me. I would love to renew my credential and teach but there's no way I'm going to mortgage my future and my family's future by leaving my current salary. I'd have to sell my modest home and limit the activities my children could participate in. Worst of all my wife would probably have to start working too. It's just a shame that things sit like they do.

Thanks for your vote of confidence Anonymous. The fact that $$ are low in teaching just means you get those who really want to be there. Underachievers go work a manual labor job somewhere else.

I just recently went back to school to get my teaching license. The reason I didn't get the license in the first place was because of the money I knew I would be earning as a teacher. It was only after a couple of years in the work force that I realized teaching was for me and I decided to pursue it even if I wasn't going to make as much as I wanted to. How many people, who would be incredible educators, have done the same thing but did not eventually go into education? I think that there are a lot of really good teachers out there, but not enough. If we want more, we need to pay more and drop the lame argument about how much teachers actually work. Fair doesn't always mean equal, and if you want good teachers you are going to have to pay them a lot more even if they have the summer off. Isn't education worth that?

We do not have to pay teachers more because they are willing to work for those wages. It is a short term job for many till they start a family and can be supported by a real wage earner.

So how did we get here?

Women are not as aggressive as men and can be paid less for equal work. They run the Union which has done little to keep salary on pace with inflation. The low wages are the fault of complacency and the lack of a unified labor force demanding change.

Do I see things changing?

Absolutely not.

Schools want complacent, timid teachers that won't give them trouble. They are not looking for smart, outgoing or dominant personalities. That is why the above male teaching certificate holder could not get hired. He was too dominant and administrators fear that.

I find it disappointing that no mention of merit pay is made in the article above. Here in Utah, we have the fewest taxpayers supporting the most students because of our high birth rate. We simply don't have much more money for education. So we need to start using the money we do have much more wisely. Merit pay for good teachers is a huge step in the right direction. You absolutely can test students in the core subjects at the beginning of a school year, and then again at the end of a school year. After 3 or more years of teaching, a teacher has a proven track record of how much "value" they are actually adding. Studies show that good teachers can teach students 1.5 years worth of material in a single year, while bad teachers only teach a half of a year of material in a single year. EVERYONE AGREES WE NEED BETTER TEACHERS. The quesiton is how do we get better teachers. We don't have the money for universal raises. We do have the money for merit pay.

The way I see it, there are 2 problems with the education system.

First, and most important is the lack of parent involvement in their child's education. Countless studies show that what children learn at home is the most important and life shaping, so if education is not important at home, it won't be any place else.

The Second problem is Government. We have too many mandated testing initiatives, and political correctness forced on to our kids that they don't have a change to learn about reading, writing, math, history, art, and music. How can we expect kids to actually learn anything if their lives are spent preparing for the next standardized test?

the Public Education communities still get their marching order from the likes of BYU, USU and UVU, and other teaching Universities, then we will never have valid and lasting reform. It is depressing to see the partnerships control the local boards the way they do via the partnerships that control the Superintendents who bring that control back to the boards.

I don't find it very funny when there are those who say that we need better teachers, as if the ones we have are bad. What we need to to respect those that are already in the classrooms and teach them that there are many different ways to teach and that they, too, are valuable to us as p[arents and the community. What we need is better training teachers. Too many of our teachers have no clue to the differences in teaching styles (Instructivsm vs Constructivsm) and that they are limited by their very degrees that said that they are teachers.

report all you want .. the bottom line is what rules and reigns on a school budget .. not the staff , not the teachers, not the parents

skills and abilities of the staff, teachers or whomever else doesnt matter ... when it comes to the money .. the best doesnt/dont matter .. just the bottom line

and why are there so many superintendents and so many school districts ?? why so much overhead ?? bosses usually dont add to the teaching environment .. they usually take away from it .. cause as we all know .. the bottom line wins .. regardless the abilities of the teachers

and as a side note i cant believe the last names of my wifes students compared to the 'parental units' last name - no wonder kids of today dont do well in school .. they dont have mothers or fathers who can keep up and show up and care how their child does in school

thanks for the report .. but nothing is going to change .. the bottom line wins and therefore weather a good teacher or not ... they are out the door - bottom line always wins

I teach in a high school in the salt lake valley. There was an opening at our school for a resource teacher.(teaching the severly handicaped) Days before school started the district hired someone who had not even graduated from college yet. Nor did the person have ANY experience in that field. Why would they hire that person?... because he was the ONLY one that applied!!! If teachers were paid a decent wadge there would have been several qualified people to choose from. Instead they had to take the only person who had applied. Who suffers?.... the students!!! Lets start paying the teachers a better wadge so we can get some qualified teachers in the schools.

I have taught for 17 years. I made $65,000 last year with all of the extra duties I agreed to do (minus the merit pay...lol)

I get a nice break in the summer. I love working with the students. They keep me young and energized. Not a class period goes by that I don't laugh about something.

Teachers just can't let all the negative stories and legislators get to them. It is a great job where you can make a huge difference in the lives of the students.

I'll never get rich but I am surviving quite nicely.

The place where we really need to straighten things out is the first 5 years. The pay needs to be about $50,000 to start. It could stay at that rate for the first 5 years.

We also need to not require so much garbage the first few years. Now teachers are taking classes to pass the Praxis test all why trying to get through the first year of teaching. What a joke. Let them concentrate on teaching!

We see the constant merry go round of beginning teachers because 90% are female. Recruit some men. Yes even white men!

Teaching is great!

As long as,

I couldn't disagree more with you. Teachers are trained in learning styles. Incidentally this is an educational theory which has never been proven scientifically.

But we also know enough about learning to never limit students to learning in their "style." Not only that, but we can spell both "Instructivsm" and "Constructivsm."

Quality education..so how is this defined? With all of the money pumped into the system, our nation's learners continue to fall behind. In the late 90's the internation test of science and math ranked us at around 17th of all industrialized nations. Today, we are at 25th..several years and perhaps a 100 billion dollars per year funneled to the us dept. of education...with abysmal results. So, it is not the money, or the money is being spent in the wrong places.

First, you need professional training..college is just the beginning. Second, you need to have high standards, fail students that don't make the grade, and have a valid curriculum, not "smart boards" but rather excellence in literature..(not dopey lit.), math, and social studies..hold the candy please.

The teachers...will work hard with the right leadership..to be part of something larger than themselves..this usually does it.

Forget more dopey ed reform notions..just look at some of the best private schools and do a Peter the Great.

We have a good education system. Teachers deserve more respect for what they do. We have many good teachers in our public education system. You are only going to continue to get good teachers in the future by paying them what they deserve for the level of education they have and respecting them as professionals. I am a kindergarten teacher and I can't tell you how many times I tell people what I do and the response is "so you are just a glorified babysitter" Society does not respect what I do. I love teaching young children. My plea to you is respect those who teach your children for what they do. It is a difficult job and the demands are only increasing every year. Appreciate what they do for society and your children. Treat them as the professionals that they are. It is not always all about the paycheck even though fair pay for the amount of education we have would be nice. Sometimes we just want someone to notice how hard we work and respect us for it.

K Teacher,

If what you described yourself is a glorified babysitter, how can you expect others to see it as anything but.