Deseret News | Is Sundance really buried in Duchesne?

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Is Sundance really buried in Duchesne?

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Cooool | 2:13 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

Now THAT is a cool story. I don't really see the resemblance between the bones and the photos but who knows?

Will Robert Redford attend a press conference about it?

Best of all, nobody is going to argue BYU - Utah on this topic!

Was I wrong? | 6:37 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

I thought Sundance died in a shootout in Bolivia.

Joe Moe | 8:17 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

@was I wrong Did you read the article?

Anyway, I myself met "Sundance" shortly before he died, at a cafe in Myton, 20 miles east of Duchesne. He gave me the whole shtick and made me promise not to say anything until they discovered it and published it. So now I can come out of the closet. Whew.

Another fun little factoid: "Sundance" did some scouting jobs for Pres. John Taylor. But that's another story.

Comments continue below

There's always $$$$ | 8:32 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

...in coming up with a conspiracy theory, a "they're not really dead" or other piece of fantasy.

So the results of the previous DNA tests are unknown? No, they ARE known -- but they'd ruin the story and money-making potential.

Kenneth in Texas | 8:39 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

Very interesting article!

I am curious to know exactly what evidence is being sought that would definitely identify these remains as those of the real "Sundance". The article talks about collecting DNA samples. But, it seems the use of DNA would require an existing sample that is known to have come from Sundance or one of his relatives. Besides, I don't think the full remains would be necessary for DNA testing. What happened to the earlier DNA sample?

Clues? | 8:42 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

These clues are much too apparent to not know more than this already. Harry is a nickname for Henry. Longabaugh and Long. Born in the Bighorn Basin. Surely someone had put all of this together before now, especially since his granddaughter was saying what she was...

If it's him..... | 8:56 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

Little town Duchesne will be known to the world......LOL!!

Stopping in Duchesne every once in a while, I'm not sure if the Farmers there would like that, but I guess curious minds of the intellects will always be around, with us.

If it was up to me? I'd say let him rest in peace...

Dave | 8:58 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

WHY ARE WE DIGGING UP DEAD PEOPLE. LET THE DEAD ALONE. HOW WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR BONES DUG UP IN 75 YEARS. THIS IS JUST PLAIN CRAZY.

Dig me up Dave | 9:07 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

You can dig me up in 70 years, I am sure I will not mind. I hear Hitler is buried in Fountain Green!

LOL | 9:14 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

Dave who would care if your dead you wont know you are being dug up!!!

Chachi | 9:33 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

I find it ironic that the comment at 8:32 takes a cynical view of conspiracy theories--and then imagines that there's a cover-up to hide the DNA evidence!

dead body | 9:37 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

Dave... it is after all, just a dead body. Regardless of your religious beliefs or lack of, once a person has died the body, or in this case bones of the body, are just hanging out until the rest happens, so it's not really a big deal as long as the family is okay with it. Which they are. So it's fine.

Woody SideWood | 9:40 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

I knew "Black Jim" when I was a young boy living on a ranch in MID-Utah. He was living on the same ranch and he was very very old. He told stories of how he would have the relay horses in place while the others would rob the banks. I remember him telling about Winnemucca and Belle Fourche specifically. In the winter a local rancher would take supplies (over the mountain) to Butch and the gang. This rancher's spread really grew during these years. After three generations that ranch has been split into a few peices. Interestingly, some crooks are still on it.

ute | 9:43 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

Go Utes and go Arizona!

observer | 10:01 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

I recognize him from the skeletal remains.
It's my old boss.

K2 | 10:30 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

This story has some real "holes" in it and the writer surely knows that. So, just hoping we have some timely followups. Perhaps chock it up to lack of space (for advertisments?). Just for once I wish the media would take the dramatics out of a report to its non-tabloid readers. Question - How long were this person's remains out of his "final resting place/s" while relatives and lawyers sorted (fought over?) out their options?

Jerry | 10:36 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

I am from Georgia and have been in Salt Lake for 17 years, go to Duchesche regularly and just love the people and area. If history can be complete and peace of mind come to this family I think that great. Might be the only way the long legend dies! That is what I love about Utah rich in history and people. When is the next train robbery?

Sandy | 10:43 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

I think they should dig up all the Mormon polygamist bones and do some DNA work on those people as well, and make certain that everyone belongs to who they say they do. It would be a marvelous and great adventure for the Mormon people living today.

Does anyone know if the Sundance kid's clan were Mormon?

The ENGLISH people love digging up graves. It's a pass time in England, and very traditional. They even make documentation films for TV. Very interesting.

hey dave... | 10:54 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

why do you think it matters if someone's decayed bones are disturbed?

DNA man | 11:10 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

There is nothing wrong with digging up dead people. It helps history research. It's good for learning and study, and it does not hurt the dead person. The spirit has left the body and the bones are only remaining residue that should be researched to the fullest.

Duchesne resident | 11:27 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

The community members of Duchesne have long been aware that Mr. Long may have been the Sundance Kid. This article isn't yielding any new information to the long time residents of the city. There are people who currently reside in Duchesne who knew Mr. Long and his children personally. Many of these people have known for years that he was indeed the Sundance Kid. An interview or two with those people who knew Mr. Long would yield much more info than this article could uncover.

Bambie | 11:43 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

There is a lot more to this story and the whole truth will rise when it is time. This family is ready to heal itself and the rest of the real story will stand as a light of understanding reaching across generations that all of us may receive the whole truth as is available.

This is not a romanticized western movie, this is our history which others have found intrique with. We are a part of a whole community who's shared life stories is remarkable.

The truth is even more remarkable then the fiction. May we all come together for the highest good of all and bring to light that which will strengthen and add to our life experience.

This is our blood and guts along with those who lived through this time of remarkable history. Let us honor ourselves and others who came before us by standing in truth and doing our best to benefit the whole while relating exciting and fascinating information about where we came from and what our ancestors really did.

Funny thing, the truth is infinitely more exciting then the fiction.

Sundance not Mormon | 11:53 a.m. Dec. 16, 2008

Sundance Kid was from Pennsylvania and his family was at that time was not Mormon generally.

wyoming | 12:53 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

The town in Wyoming was Afton, in Star valley. He and Butch Cassidy stole from my great-grandfather's grocery store because he had raised the prices too high for the townspeople to afford food. Classic rob-the-rich-to feed-the-poor story...

new definition | 1:04 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

This kind of changes the meaning of "final resting place", doesn't it? I think I want to be cremated.

Mr. Bean | 1:08 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

What's the problem? You'll just bury them today and dig them up tomorrow...A Great British Tradition.

stillinut84651 | 1:19 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

re; Joe Mo, LOL. Good idea to use the word factoid in your posting since a factoid is something that everyone says is true but that may or may not be true.

Glen from Tucson | 1:29 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

...born in Wyoming's Big Horn Basin in 1860? Not impossible, but pretty remote. John Coulter from the Lewis and Clark Expedition went through the northern part of the Big Horn Basin in 1807. Jim Bridger created the Bridger Trail which led from the Mormon trail through the Big Horn Basin up to Montana in 1864. Some ranchers got there in the 1870s. The towns didn't start happening until about 1900 give or take a few years.

Joe Moe | 1:32 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

@stillinut

I just love myths and folklore. I figure maybe I can make up my own, write a book, make some money. Ya think?

Shauna | 1:48 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

Hazel Bernice Peck is my deceased mother-in-law. Harry Hoagland Forsyth is my deceased father-in-law. Don Hoagland Forsyth, my deceased husband, would have loved reading this and knowing this. He commented on this history several times. How nice to put all of this together. Shauna Gygi Forsyth

Otis Johanson | 2:30 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

Glen from Tucson... you have to appreciate that nothing Long ever said about his history was true just like the rest of the outlaws. They had a bunch of aliases and stories to throw people off their trail. It seems to me that these people are honest about trying to find out who Long was. If they're doing a documentary it doesn't seem like they'd be able to hide the truth about anything. I'm sure they'll report what they find out. Actually Joe Moe, you probably wouldn't make any money if you made stuff up. Without any evidence at all, you call this myth and folklore. Why don't you tell us what's in your craw so we can understand where you're coming from and what your beef is?

Joe Moe | 3:00 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

Sorry Otis, I really didn't mean to come off that way. I find the true history fascinating, as well. I guess I got off on that "tangent" because of how slim the evidence is behind a lot of the legends, including contradictory evidence. Most of the time I despair of feeling like we really have the true story. But when we do, I love it. That's all I was off on, I guess. I really did enjoy the article, honest. It was all tongue-in-cheek, with a grain of truth.

Butch and the Big Horn Basin | 3:12 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

An interesting thing about claiming to have been born in the Big Horn Basin of Wyoming is that was where his frend, Butch Cassidy, was charged with cattle rustling, sentenced by a local rancher/justice of the peace, and sent to the Wyoming State Penitentiary. It was the only time he was ever caught. Perhaps there is some irony with choosing that birthplace?

Glen from Tucson makes an excellent and fascinating point about 1860 and the Big Horn Basin. The chances of a non-Native being born there in 1860 are slim to say the least. Whoever this guy is, there is something wrong with that story.

Kent | 3:14 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

This is interesting , but I'm still trying to figure out what they are really trying to prove by digging LONG's bones up????

English Daughter in America | 4:02 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

Why do a few think digging up the dead is a pasttime in England? It is not. The rich Roman history makes it impossible to dig about England without uncovering someone's remains...FYI

Stumped | 4:09 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

My questioned is where did they get the DNA to compare. I thought Forensics only started becoming used in the 1950's. Where they get Sundance' DNA? From one of his blood samples from the early 1900's?

Brandon Olson | 4:16 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

I'm still trying to figure it out????

Maryanne | 4:17 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

For heaven sakes kent. Did you just climb off a flying saucer? The scientists are looking for DNA to determine who LONG might be. Glen is spot on about the Big Horn Basin, which just shows what Otis was saying about Long making the whole thing up to cover the truth. My family came from Circleville, Utah and it was a family fact that Butch and Sundance didn't die in Bolivia. We weren't supposed to say anything to anybody. It was also a family fact that Butch would go over to Freemont to see Sundance and they'd travel together through Brown's Canyon. I can't say that is true, but why would they make that stuff up only keep everyone quiet about it.

Zelph | 4:21 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

They should test Zelph's DNA along with Sundance's.

Jerry Nickle | 4:40 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

His Marriage license and the census records show he was born in 1867. He told his descendants he was born in the Big Horn Basin to mislead them. He did not want his true identity discovered because the Etta Place story would have caused heartache for the family then.

Lizzy | 4:40 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

To: English daughter in America

I think it is a simple fact. MR. BEAN SAID SO! I saw in the movie called BEAN.

I'm English born in America ;)

Mystery solved? | 4:49 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

I believe that the people that tried to prove he was killed in Boliva got DNA from his brother. He had siblings and parents that could be dug up and their DNA used to test against. Stay tuned, there is more to this story than you know. :o)

Mormon or not? | 4:51 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

I don't think he was Mormon when he was alive but if Bill Long is Sundance then he's baptized Mormon now that he's dead. Isn't that how it works?

This is amazing! | 5:31 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

I love a mystery and I love the people who solve them. I think this is a wonderful thing. I'm sure Mr. Long doesn't mind what's going on and none of us should either. I remember watching Butch Casidy and the Sundance Kid back in 1969 in a movie theatre near Chesapeake, Virginia and crying at the end of the movie thinking those two were gone. If William Long is Sundance, I'll bet they will be able to make a movie just as good as the first on.

Jonathan | 7:05 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

I agree that a whole lot of people in Duchesne especially the old timers have always believed that Bill Long was the Sundance Kid. We took our pictures by his grave stone last year. This will be a good thing for our town. I would donate for a statue or a special grave site. A museum would be a real neat thing too. Maybe the Park Service or the State would do that. This could be one of the best things that could happen to Duchesne and I for one am really glad that they're finally getting around to proving what we've known out here for a long time. Thanks Deseret News!

Mormon or what? | 7:51 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

I know that great grandpa Long didn't ever join the church. Luzernia, his wife was Mormon and so were her kids. Most of us stayed with the church, but a few turned away and some of those are kind of hard hearted to this day. I think it is pretty interesting that Bill Long's descendants have known Longabaugh names. Even Etta in this newspaper story is a name associated with Sundance. It is all too coincidental. I suspect we'll all find out pretty soon.

mikey | 9:03 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

being a decendant of Robert LeRoy Parker i always enjoy a chance of proving he didnt die in Bolivia

Jerry Nickle | 9:04 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

Would the old timers living in Duchesne, that knew Bill Long tell us what they know of him?

UU geneticist | 10:53 p.m. Dec. 16, 2008

The living relatives DNA will be compared to the deceased person. DNA from the deceased should be readily obtainable from a small sample of remaining bone. Sorenson Genetics will then determine their relatedness by comparing the sequences of various sites throughout the human genome. This should definitively settle the question about whether the deceased person was, in fact, Sundance. Some very lucky people at Sorenson will see this first. I'm looking forward to reading the answer.

Great Work | 8:35 a.m. Dec. 17, 2008

I had Dr. McCullough for an anthropology class last year. He is a brilliant professor, and it is excellent to see him involved in such an exciting project.

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