Comments about ‘Group countering Prop. 8 backers' ad’

David,
See my post above. Given my understanding of the situation I obviously saw the video.

The old lady was not "provoking them" but expressing her CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to free speech just as the Gay crowd was expressing their right to free speech. Why was her act provocative yet their opposite side argument was not? I see it as hypocrisy at its finest. Both were attempting to picket on public property instead of your invalid "church" argument and the old lady was pushed around and her property was destroyed. Both of those actions were criminal and she has every right to seek justice for those actions which you excuse Bobd. Would you be so quick to excuse if she was pro-gay and the people pushing and destroying her property were anti-gay? My magic 8-ball says "doubtful."

It's interesting about how heated the hate is here. Satan is just loving this whole thing, as it is feeding itself now.

Step outside the box, and look at it differently. What can you do to change the dynamics? What can you do to hose down this whole situation?

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Share a hug.

People in 1492 didn't actually think the earth was flat. Many scholars in different cultures had figured out that the earth wasn't flat and the universe is not centered around the earth before Columbus ever set sail. Its time we get rid of those stupid little sayings that just aren't true.

For instance Michael Jordan getting cut from his high school basketball team. I'll admit he got cut when he was a freshman from the varsity team but by the time he was a senior he was a McDonalds high school all american.

Or the daddy long leg being the most poisonous spider in the world its mouth is just to small to bit. Lol. Please people stop spreading lies. They thought the world was flat!! hahahahahaha

Also, when I just scroll this board all I see is hate from both sides. Of one thing I am sure, HATE IS NOT THE ANSWER AND THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH OF IT FROM BOTH SIDES!!!

re: Dixie,

Thanks for your opinion. Just one question, how do YOU know Msrs. Dawkins, Hitchens, & Dennet are right? From what I've read about and from them, and yes I did some research, all they do is express opinions and criticize any that disagree with them. But isn't that what philosophy is, expressing opinions and then convincing yourself through rationalization that your right? I'm really happy for you that you have everything figured out (haha), but what if (and this can apply to anybody) what if your wrong? Can you accept that possibility and the consequences that go along with it?

Bobd, if you saw the video and feel that the actions towards this woman and the reporter were justified, I am even more disturbed.

the church finding acceptance in the main stream media?? Say what? HA!! What are you talking about man? Let me set you straight here Bob, first remember it was the LDS church that took the lead (largely alone) in funding and passing prop 8. If you happened to be watching MSNBC or any of the other "main stream" media outlets during the campaign you didn't find too many kind words being said about Mormons.The LDS church didn't kiss up to ANY media outlet. What has happened to the church is some of the worst mormon bashing since and twisted proaganda against the church since ole Governor Boggs himself was in power. As far the the LDS church's association with other religious organizations - YOU BET the LDS church has joined with the Catholics, protestants, Jews and others to protect marriage. Any thing wrong with that????

Jer wrote:
Yes, there are extremists (on both sides) that have broken the law and defaced property. The difference between us is that the gay movement wants to expand freedom and equality while conservative religious organizations want to restrict freedom. The church may say it isn't homophobic, but I won't believe it until I see them encouraging Utah legislators to pass laws that protect gays and lesbians from being fired or kicked out of their homes because of their sexual orientation. Its time to come together and find some common ground.

Please give me one example of a religious extremists that has broken the law or defaced property? Also, where have your "freedoms" been restricted by anyone? Do you not have the same freedoms promised by the Constitution that everyone else has? Where have you been living at that gay's have been kicked out of their homes or jobs because they were gay? Not in CA, or afaik anywhere in the USA. Please stop spreading the lies and stop trying to make it seem that your cause is justified by having your rights taken away.

A Prayer from Billy Graham 'Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and to seek your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, 'Woe to those who call evil good,' but that is exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values. We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery. We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare. We have killed our unborn and called it choice. We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable. We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self esteem. We have abused power and called it politics. We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition. We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression. We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment. Search us, Oh God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and Set us free. Amen!'

Re: to Bobd | 1:34

I never said anything about "acceptance in the mainstream media".

after reading ALL your comments, and I do mean ALL , my heart goes out to you. It must be so difficult to deal with the struggle that you fight with night and day, every day. It must have been hard being raised LDS, and also having to fight your personal temptations, demons so to speak, of being drawn towards homosexuality.

To answer your question, yes my mother did "teach me what it meant?". It is not worth fighting a war of words with you any longer. Your sight is blinded, to the bobd way or the highway mentality. People have tried to reason with you for years now, but if there opinions are not in accordance with your opinions, then you cast them aside and trample them. You seem to have an answer for everything don't you?

Well not everything, you can not come to terms with that struggle, knowing the gospel of Christ is true, yet knowing that being gay is not right. The yearning to give into the base worldly desires and go against Gods laws and commandments. That internal battle you fight must be tremendous and painful. And, there is no "answer" for that.

"Ah, yes. Mountain Meadows. The one piece of Mormon history you can count on in every comments section."

Whoa! Do you mean to tell me that at some point in history, Mormons have been guilty of committing horrible crimes?

I'll bet the Catholics never did anything like that.

I'll bet an Evangelical never was guilty of murder.

Jews have been spotless.

Muslims are wihtout sin.

Surely, an atheist has never even broken the law, let alone committed murder.

Agnostics, Jehovah Witnesses, SDAs, Hindus - never once have they been in violation of morality or the law, right?

Blasted Mormons! Go after every one of them for that MMM thing.

By your thoughtful response comparing LDS church leaders to Hitler and members to the SS I can tell you are someone of great objectivity and intellect.

Just two questions: When is the last time LDS members have organized to protest a gay pride march or yell violent threats against its participants? Which prominent LDS senator co-sponsored hate crimes legislation to protect all minorities especially gays in the aftermath of the Matthew Shepard tragedy?

Answering these questions, and many similar ones I could raise, might give you some perspective. The desire to preserve traditional marriage and being anti-gay are NOT the same.

re: Poor Bobd

You can readdress your commentary following these following revelations:

1. I am a convert
2. I am heterosexual
3. I am happily married and sealed

Re: CA Prop 8 Supporter - California is only one of a few states that provides legal protection against gays as a registered class of citizens. Plenty of people have been fired and discriminated because of their sexuality in states that do not have such laws. As Prop 8 specifically challenges the constitutional protection of the class, it directly affects the nature of the situation and the freedoms of the people.

Re: Re: Muntz -
I provided a sensational leader that brought the masses to their beck and call that all would recognized. I could just as easily use the Pope and the crusades as an example, or maybe David Koresh and the Branch Davidians if you would prefer.

You validate the church with the actions of a few, while others (since you don't give a name, I don't know if you've posted before) condem the entire GLBT society with the actions of a few. It doesn't float.

To CSTN,

That is old, tired, and lame, and it wasn't Billy Graham!

When will you MOrmons stop plagiarizing everything and then distorting and spinning it to suit your purposes? I have never come across such deceiptful people in my life!

Anonymous,

"When will you MOrmons stop plagiarizing everything and then distorting and spinning it to suit your purposes? I have never come across such deceiptful people in my life!"

Have you looked in the mirror or at those you vote for. Or do you not see that those of us who are fed up with you and those who represent you are tired of you calling us deceitful and printing ads defending your right to harass us at our Temples and places of worship. How about we harass your mother at home for her decision to give birth to a moron who grew up to vote for other tyrants.

You can have my dead body but not my obedience. You can call me deceitful but I don't care. What I do care about is that you and those who represent you are tyrants and want to force your will upon the majority through the Courts. How about telling your high school buddy turned voter turned Supreme Court Justice that a voter who went to another High School doesn't give a damn what he was taught by his dear mommy and daddy. What we care about is our liberty.

Re: Muntz
Sorry about not posting my name before. All three of your examples involve leaders whose actions brought about death. That is where you are over the top.

I have never condemned the entire GLBT community but found the comments by certain people such as yourself and Kaley extreme. I don't like to attack but have never been shy about defending.

It might surprise you to know that one of my best friends in high school was gay and that he was murdered in Southern Utah in 1986. His murderer is on death row and for this reason I am a strong supporter of hate crimes legislation as well as civil protection for everyone against job discrimination, housing discrimination, etc.

So when I and many others who support traditional marriage are targeted, I defend.

re: bobd | 12:23 p.m. Dec. 11, 2008
WHO WROTE
"Oh Boy,
I'm not rationalizing anything. The old lady was not beat up. Her little "cross" was taken and stomped on and her "bodyguards" moved her out of the way. That is not getting beat up. You are sensationalizing it to try and justify your hatred of homosexuals enmass."

MY WORDS:
I am homosexual so stop sensationaizing by knee-jerk assuming I hate homosexuals in mass and please dont embarrass me by trying to justify extremism from other gay activists. I dont need or want gay zealotry to be rationalized any more than most religious people want religious zealotry excused.