Comments about ‘Group countering Prop. 8 backers' ad’

"Who crossed the line? You must be kidding because"

I'm not debating this with you, I am simply informing you. I'm telling you this because we really have bigger problems as a nation than to fight over issues of whose morality is right. But if you persist, we will have a political fight and you will lose because our cause is just and yours is not.

And in the process, people will learn about your beliefs, your organization, and your history, and most Americans will be appalled.

"Homosexuals molest children at a rate many times what heterosexuals do."

You better check your facts - your bias and lack of knowledge is showing.

@2:19 | 3:28 p.m. Dec. 12, 2008 wrote -
But women didnt try to gain those rights by allowing the modification of the term "man" to include females and males.

All that was changed was the word "voter". The word became more broad and inclusive and allowed more people access to it. Was democracy strengthened or weakened by giving the vote to women and Blacks? It was strengthened as will the institution of marriage by making it more inclusive.

(Both Heterosexual and Homosexuals) more than reported. Get your facts! Abuse is a different issue than the issue at hand.

Joseph Smith's Teachings | 11:35 a.m. Dec. 13, 2008 said -
"I would rather have the living oracles than all the writing in the books." Joseph Smith said "Brother Brigham has told you the word of the Lord, and he has told you the truth."

LDS - This is true when the prophet receives instructions from the Lord (D&C 1:30,21:4). When the prophet contradicts scripture, we are instructed to ignore his words.

JST - You people say you are LDS members and quote scriptutes, but you think you know more than the Prophet and God about same sex marriage. Wrong again!

LDS - We know it is sin. We also know that preventing it by the force of law was Satan's Plan. Why are so many LDS renouncing their vote in the Pre-Existence?

JST - More Joseph Smith,"There have always been, in every age of the church, those who have been opposed to the principles of virtue,...followed principles of unrighteousness, and have been enemies of truth" Sound familar?

LDS - Show us where we have misinterpreted scripture or misquoted the prophets. until you do, our position is rock solid. Good Luck.

Disobedience | 4:37 p.m. Dec. 13, 2008 said -
Nothing validates not following our current prophet in the LDS church. Many have come before you teaching false doctrine and your source has always been the same.

LDS - Well, since the scriptures and prophetic statements I posted back our position, the ball is now in your court to show how we misquoted those sayings or misinterpreted scripture, otherwise our position stands. Good luck...you're gonna need it. Thank you for your sincere prayers though.

The Proclamation on the Family was issued in 1995 and clearly states our position on marriage between and man and a woman. This was many years before homosexual marriage became an issue. The Church as also recently issued a proclamation on the Living Christ. Be prepared.

Many people are not going to support your church (or many religions). So you will have your stand, but not much growth....(maybe in third world countires), but not much in the U.S. and other areas that are becoming secular.

Gay marriage doesn't dilute single/specific marriages, but does dilute the term marriage. How many times does that obvious fact need to be repeated so that you understand? Gay marriage will guarantee competition for surrogates and adoption despite the fact that children in heterosexual marriages are in superior environments even if the gay marriage environment is acceptable. Odd, in Belgium, they use the word gay marriage but don't allow for adoption even if one in the couple is biological parent. It seems that secular society sees the future results.

My issue remains with the specific high risk behavior. That risk is great enough that it is one of the primary exclusion questions for blood donation. We are being politically correct to the detriment of the survival of the species ignoring that HIV/AIDS is a primarily gay disease. The two other high risk factors include drug use and prostitution. Should we also validate those additional issues, oh wait we can't since those groups don't have money to lobby.

"Survival of the Species" the reason validating interracial couples from the landmark Loving V. Virginia case.

That aids/HIV is primarily a women's and children's disease in Africa? It started to spread elsewhere too (yes, to the homosexual community here), but it is not a disease brought on us from this activity. We have to deal with it too. This disease has been used as an excuse to discriminate for too long.
And survival of the species? Goodness do you know we have six billion and counting people in the world. We haven't been able to take care of them all! Let's concentrate on the people we have!

"My issue remains with the specific high risk behavior."

The HIV epidemic is not due to homosexuality, it is due to promiscuity and anonymity. A closeted homosexual Mormon who has anonymous sex at highway rest stops or with prostitutes is a bigger threat to public health and his family than a gay couple in San Francisco.

Therefore, if you are concerned with containing the HIV epidemic, you should support gay marriage: gay marriage reduces promiscuity and hence is a good thing.

If you think that by prohibiting gay marriage you reduce homosexuality, you really are completely out of touch with reality.

I'm curious, are there any gays out there that believe that God supports "same-sex marriage"?

I will try and give the same kind of advice that I gave good old bobbyd, but in a way that maybe both of you can try and understand.

You need to do all that you can and NOT put your trust in the "arm of the flesh", instead, try putting your trust in the "arm of the Lord". After reading the many and I do mean many responses you have so gladly given each and every poster here, it appears that you have put all your trust in the arm of flesh, i.e. the Supreme Court and such other liberal and worldly institutions. Yet you appear to have no trust in the arm of the Lord, forgetting the basic fundamentals and essentials of why we are even here and where we come from. A family, a heavenly family, with a father and a mother, plain and simple. The family is basic unit, in heaven and on earth, the family with a father and a mother and children, PERIOD!

Try as you may to rationalize and justify anything other than this, and you are only lying and misleading yourself and jeopardizing your eternal goals, which i hope you have.

And wishing to continue where I left off....... It really comes down to a few things, being in the world yet not of the world and following the example of Joseph Smith in following the admonition found in the book of James. And if you will ask with real intent, nothing wavering, HE will manifest the truth of these things. But if you waver, you are like the the waves of the sea, tossed to and fro.

In other words, you can continue to be of the world, and relying on the arm of flesh, or of man, and keep rationalizing and justifying these things to yourself and pushing them on others. Or choose to rely on the arm of the Lord, and if you will ask the Lord if things are not true, asking will REAL INTENT, He will manifest the truth of these thing unto you. That is as simple as it can be put, and I wish you luck in your search for real happiness, not worldly happiness which last for a short time.

I would urge anyone who wonders where Jesus himself stood on the issue of marriage to read Matthew 19, especially verses 4-6. He clearly endorses one form of marriage, the union of a man and a woman. It is not possible to claim that he was accepting or affirming same-gender marriage in this passage.
The person who claims that the stand of President Monson and his counselors is out of line with the scriptures also seems to ignore the passage in Doctrine and Covenants where it says that a man must "cleave unto his wife and none else". Cleaving unto another man which is implicit in same-gender marriage is clearly forbidden.

Agnostic | 8:02 a.m. Dec. 15, 2008 said -
Odd, in Belgium, they use the word gay marriage but don't allow for adoption even if one in the couple is biological parent. It seems that secular society sees the future results.

LDS - Oh, so it's OK for the kid to be raised for 20 years in a Same-Sex home but it would harm the kid if the parents were married? HUH?

"I'm curious, are there any gays out there that believe that God supports "same-sex marriage"?"

There are a lot of people (gays, not gays) that do not believe in a god or your God. It then is a moot point of what your God believes when it comes to their vision of what government should do.

There are many gays who believe it God. Maybe not your version of God.

To JPL,

John, everytime you spout scriptural back-up references to say that a marriage is ordained of God and is between a man and a woman, do you also, by the same standard, throw the same line to your Catholic buddies?

By the way, doesn't Mormon theology teach that "whoso forbiddeth to marry is not ordained of me" (i.e. celibacy in the Catholic priesthood?)

just curious? --- if you want to be fair to all parties concerned?

To Agnostic | 8:02 a.m.

How do you feel about the following demeaning marriage?

* divorce
* marriages of convenience
* multiple marriages --- over and over, divorce after marriage, after divorce, etc.

and many other types of marriages, too many to mention, all legal mind you --- and we don't make those illegal ---

John Pack Lambert | 8:55 a.m

Is this what this is all about, John, trying to stop the tide of homosexuality? --- never mind the legal aspect?

Homosexuality is --- ahem, legal.