Reader comments
Reid gives Big 3 little hope
49 comments | Read story
Timj | 4:14 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Giving these guys money is like giving a band-aid to a long-time smoker
who's gotten lung cancer. The only thing that will help him is to stop his
harmful habits, and a bit of chemo. And chemo's not pleasant. For years,
American car companies have made poor quality vehicles with bad gas mileage.
These vehicles don't sell well abroad, so the market is very limited. And
smarter, more efficient companies have taken over. No company should be so big
that they are too big to die. Even the largest of the dinosaurs went extinct.
follow the money | 5:11 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
The United Auto Workers union, scrambling to preserve jobs and benefits, agreed
at an emergency meeting in Detroit to allow the companies to delay payments to a
(multibillion-dollar), union-run health care trust and to scale back a job bank
in which laid-off workers are paid most of their wages.***********
Harry Reid knows the UAW has lots of money in the health care trust fund. The big 3 car companies need to borrow from the UAW like the government borrows from social security. The UAW controls the car manufactures anyway, let them pay their bills.
Harry Reid knows the UAW has lots of money in the health care trust fund. The big 3 car companies need to borrow from the UAW like the government borrows from social security. The UAW controls the car manufactures anyway, let them pay their bills.
Wake-up | 6:49 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
I have purchased nine new cars from the big three in the last twenty years, at
least one from each company. Always the car I purchased was superior to the
foreign competition. Lower purchase cost, lower maintenance cost, mileage,
better warranty, better resale, etc. I have enjoyed every one of them. I am
very disappointed to hear elected officials and the media berate American
industry.
The problem is the big three are carrying retirees and the import companies manufacturing in the US have not been here thirty years, so they are not. The industry is not asking for handouts like the banks, just loans they will pay back with interest. Losing all of these jobs and retiree benefits at this time will kill our weak economy.
I hope Washington wakes up before it is too late.
The problem is the big three are carrying retirees and the import companies manufacturing in the US have not been here thirty years, so they are not. The industry is not asking for handouts like the banks, just loans they will pay back with interest. Losing all of these jobs and retiree benefits at this time will kill our weak economy.
I hope Washington wakes up before it is too late.
Comments continue below
lgriff | 7:21 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
The States have given great amounts of taxpayer money to the overseas companies.
How would you like to compete under these conditions?
RWS | 7:42 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Beware of those who suddenly ask for a handout when the time seems right and who
claim it is so urgent that it must be done in the next 30 days. Where were they
6 or 12 months ago when it was obvious things were going south? They are simply
trying to prey on the panic people are feeling and the apparent willingness of
congress to try and bail everyone out of a problem, without changing the
practices that got them in trouble in the first place. The Unions run these
companies and have been running them into the ground for many years. We will
survive if they go bankrupt. It might actually be beneficial. DON'T BAIL
THEM OUT!!!!
brian | 7:43 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
cars coast to much and the people at the top need to learn to live like all the
other people and the unions need to go away and no one should have their health
paid for all their life and that goes to the kids in washington d.c.
Christy | 7:51 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
From what I understand, one of these "Big 3" is attempting to open a
new plant in Russia and that their bailout money will go to fund that project.
That will not save American jobs. I'm fine with helping them if the money
is allocated to specific uses that will help our country. I have nothing against
Russia but I don't think it's taxpayers responsibility to shore up
their ecconomy.
I don't have any suggestions about how this should all take place but having Congress criticize the "Big 3" is a big hypocritical. Yes, these companies have made some major mistakes and if the decision to not bail them out is made, that's fine with me too. But I'd love to see someone audit Congress and unveil some of their perks ie multimillion dollar properties that they are permited to rent for practically nothing (I saw this on a tv special. I'm assuming this is correct. Any corrections would be appreciated), taxpayer funded parties, etc. The Big 3 need to be raked over the coals. I agree. But so does Congress. The old saying "It's like the pot calling the kettle black" comes to mind.
I don't have any suggestions about how this should all take place but having Congress criticize the "Big 3" is a big hypocritical. Yes, these companies have made some major mistakes and if the decision to not bail them out is made, that's fine with me too. But I'd love to see someone audit Congress and unveil some of their perks ie multimillion dollar properties that they are permited to rent for practically nothing (I saw this on a tv special. I'm assuming this is correct. Any corrections would be appreciated), taxpayer funded parties, etc. The Big 3 need to be raked over the coals. I agree. But so does Congress. The old saying "It's like the pot calling the kettle black" comes to mind.
DH | 7:52 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
The unions are the real problem here and they must be brought under control. The
very concept of how unions control some parts of this nation is disturbing and
adds so much to the exhorbitant price we pay for many things. The auto industry
is a prime example. This is nothing but corruption!
Reaping rewards | 7:54 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
This isn't about berating companies. It's about companies who meet
consumer demand. If you look at Consumer Reports, U.S. cars aren't as
reliable. That reflects my own experience. My Ford was OK. My Mercury was
horrible. My Subaru is a dream.
U.S. companies have been loath to try new technologies. Now consumers want something besides big SUVs. G.M. blew it by shelving the EV1. Want proof? Watch "Who Killed the Electric Car." Then you'll understand exactly why the companies are hurting. If you get so presumptuous as to decide you know better than the consumer, you will eventually find your business in ruins.
Bailing out these companies would be a waste of money. Let them learn to adapt to new consumer needs.
U.S. companies have been loath to try new technologies. Now consumers want something besides big SUVs. G.M. blew it by shelving the EV1. Want proof? Watch "Who Killed the Electric Car." Then you'll understand exactly why the companies are hurting. If you get so presumptuous as to decide you know better than the consumer, you will eventually find your business in ruins.
Bailing out these companies would be a waste of money. Let them learn to adapt to new consumer needs.
Buy American | 7:57 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Personally, american made vehicles are a much better car to buy than imports.
Especially at this time because all imports are facing the same downfall. Then
with import vehicles you will never get the maintenace and parts needed in a
timely manner. If you don't mind waiting 2 months for parts to be shipped I
guess you have more time and money than most do. As for bailing out any company
why is it necessary? What happened to all the profits they made during the last
10 years? Have they squandered their profits in lavish CEO's pay and
parties? Why weren't they investing in their solvency and assets instead
of paying outlandish premiums to stock holders? No planning ahead and saving,
instead they operated on floating debt and iresponsible leadership, just like
our political leaders. Corporate america does not merit any bailouts, even if it
means bankruptcy that they created by poor management of profits. When they fall
so will we all and depression looms even more as more compaies will also fall.
Americans must prepare for the worst yet to come before we can recover. Our debt
is what killed the economy and to add more is suicide.
Dave | 8:13 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Bancruptcy! Sounds bad but it is the answere to the problem here, The court
can make sure the cos are run efficiently, and guarantee that Bailout money is
repaid to the tax payers first.
Corruption?? | 8:29 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Apparently the automakers are not corrupt enough. Maybe they need to go and sit
down with the big banks and Wall Street to get a few pointers on real
corruption.
But, lets get real there is way more money greasing the pockets of our public officials coming from the banks and Wall Street. The automakers need to get on board with what real corruption is, and then they will be more than willing to give you billions.
But, lets get real there is way more money greasing the pockets of our public officials coming from the banks and Wall Street. The automakers need to get on board with what real corruption is, and then they will be more than willing to give you billions.
Incredulous | 8:29 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
The comments of "Wake Up" and "Buy American" defy credulity.
What American-made car can begin to compare with the Japanese brands in terms
of quality, maintenance problems, resale, etc.? None. And the reason is clear:
too much of the cost of American-made cars goes to the comparatively
astronomical labor-related costs of the U.S. companies. Until the "Big
Three" (hard to really think of them that way) bring their labor costs into
rough equivalence with the companies who makes cars Americans actually want,
they should get no money from the public coffers.
suzyk | 8:29 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
The Big 3 have created this problem all my themselves. The executives have
lived high on the hog for too long and now they want to be bailed out. If they
would make quality cars that last more, Americans would buy them. You
don't hear Toyota, Honda, Mercedes or BMW VW or other makers asking for a
bail out. The Big 3 have stuffed their pockets with money for too long. They
need to try living like normal, hard working people that we are. There are
always consequences for careless choices and they have made several. There is
no sorrow for them...they have created this financial fiasco by themselves.
Maybe the execs should take a huge cut in their outrageous salary packages and I
betcha it would make a tremendous difference. They are too high and mighty and
deserve to be humbled. The unfortunate thing is that hard working employees
will have to suffer for the greed of the executives. I hope they make the Big 3
execs stew and sweat for awhile or this will be repeated once again.
Linus | 8:35 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Let them file for Chapter 11 so they can reorganize without union interference
or threat. That's the way it works.
I am a consumer. I vote with my dollars. I haven't bought a car manufactured by the Big Three for many years because I have a message I'm trying to send them about efficiency and about reliability. Now, if congress takes my tax dollars and nullifies my vote, the Big Three will never get my message. I'm for free enterprise, and I believe in negative consequences for bad decisions.
Congress, Please don't take away my vote!
I am a consumer. I vote with my dollars. I haven't bought a car manufactured by the Big Three for many years because I have a message I'm trying to send them about efficiency and about reliability. Now, if congress takes my tax dollars and nullifies my vote, the Big Three will never get my message. I'm for free enterprise, and I believe in negative consequences for bad decisions.
Congress, Please don't take away my vote!
I agree with 'Wake Up" | 8:41 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
If people could only see how deeply the economy will suffer if the Big 3 are not
helped. I know it sounds like we are trying to put a bandaid on a booboo but we
said the same thing about the banking industry and look where we are now. The
economy affects all of us from houseing and energy to food and our
"things". We are in this together and if one falls it is a domino
affect. The old poem from a seventeenth century poet and clergyman still rings
clear and true, No Man Is An Island-No Man Stands Alone. The United States is
really an example of those words. United We Stand, Divided We Fall. We
can't let any part of our precious country fail and lose or we all will
lose. Yes we all need to tighten our belts but helping is the right way.
Don't condemn Detroit and other places with real people to a catastrophy
beacuse it will come back to bite us all.
Look at what Delta accomplished | 8:42 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
under the protection of the courts. It has come out much stronger and leaner.
The same can happen with the US auto industry if they really want to come out
ahead.
CougarKeith | 9:08 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Harry Reid is an absolute idiot! Unions are a big part of the problem with the
Big 3, another part sadly is the CONSUMER who demands these large vehicles that
can't get the gas mileage the public SUDDENLY demands. The third one to
blame is the Government for not putting more stringent demands on the gas
mileage that cars get, and fourthly it is the car companies themselves. Example,
Dodge came out with a highbrid Durango, but killed it after 1 year, they
didn't even give it a chance! The other thing is a $40,000 car purchase and
you have only 5 or 6 years to pay it off? What middle class family can actually
afford a brand new car? Granted there are plenty of $15-20,000 cars out there,
but that is $20,000 your talking about! Why buy new when you can buy a used car
that is 1-3 years old for half the price? Personally I have owned 5 brand new
vehicles, but compared to the used vehicles I have purchased and been able to
afford, they Don't COMPARE! I'll buy a 3 year old Expedtion, Durango,
Escalade, Navagator, or sedan any time over a brand new car!
Ann Jones | 9:18 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
I find it ironic that the big Three automakers are �working
feverishly� with their unions to sell a skeptical congress
on the need for a $34 billion aid plan. Why didn�t they
work feverishly years ago when this all began? They knew then what sort of
crisis this would cause but their own self-interest figured
�the taxpayers� would bail them. The
remarks of Chrysler�s Jim Press, are pathetic. And the
United Auto Workers union, scrambling to preserve their multi-billion dollar
benefits and yet �scale back� is also
pathetic. Congress needs to put the responsibility where it belongs ---back on
the automakers and the unions. The unions alone could provide the $34 billion
the automakers are crying for. I find it outrageous that Congress and the
Administration are even considering a bailout. Individuals or groups, whoever
they might be, never learn to accept responsibility for themselves or their
actions when they are �bailed�;
it�s only when it gets personal.
Labor Unions | 9:19 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
have become a cancer in the economy and it needs to be fixed. Their wages and
benefits are outrageous and the Detroit Autos are junk!
Give up the unions!!! | 9:33 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
I read a story on CNN where the auto unions are willing to make some
"small" compromises to help jump start the big three auto makers. SAY
WHAT??? You're companies are going belly up and you in NO POSITION to
demand ANYTHING AT ALL!!! You may get to keep your job at a far reduced salary
and that you ought to be thankful for that ! These people still don't get
it. First the CEO's and now the unions. Both were responsible for
destroying Ford, GM and Chrysler. If congress gives these over paid bone heads
free money NOTHING will change and it will be members of congress losing their
jobs in two years !!
vaase | 9:34 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
have the three amigos read and file chapt. eleven
The Problem | 9:42 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
The only difference between the United States of America and the Big 3 is that
America has been able to borrow from the world to finance its profligate
lifestyle. The Big 3 can no longer borrow, so they are seeking help from the
world's biggest debtor!
And to see our imperial Congressmen passing judgment on anybody's financial conduct in light of this reality is ludicrous. What a bunch of bombastic fools!
There are 3 culprits in this mess:
1. the Unions--these people have sliced and diced the American auto industry to the point that an American car costs $2000 more per vehicle than Toyota or Honda. There is no free lunch. We either pay more for the car or get less in value, or the manufacturer loses its profit.
2. Big 3 Management--The Big 3 don't listen to their dealers who are closest to the consumers. They kill the market by selling to the rental companies who write off the cars and flood the market. They hassle their dealers over warranty claims. They are starting to get it but it might be too late.
3. The Government--burdening the industry with onerous regulations, enabling the Unions, overtaxing US industry.
And to see our imperial Congressmen passing judgment on anybody's financial conduct in light of this reality is ludicrous. What a bunch of bombastic fools!
There are 3 culprits in this mess:
1. the Unions--these people have sliced and diced the American auto industry to the point that an American car costs $2000 more per vehicle than Toyota or Honda. There is no free lunch. We either pay more for the car or get less in value, or the manufacturer loses its profit.
2. Big 3 Management--The Big 3 don't listen to their dealers who are closest to the consumers. They kill the market by selling to the rental companies who write off the cars and flood the market. They hassle their dealers over warranty claims. They are starting to get it but it might be too late.
3. The Government--burdening the industry with onerous regulations, enabling the Unions, overtaxing US industry.
Don't even think about it!!! | 9:43 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
GO ahead and bail out the auto industry big three - but DON'T EVEN THING
ABOUT IT UNLESS you.....
1. Remove the UAW unions completely out of picture. In fact, just scrap the whole compensation package and restructure it along the same exact lines as our foreign competitors. If that means a BIG pay reduction for the auto line workers as well as the exec's then so be it. They are in NO POSITION to negotiate anything !! These clowns still don't get it and have no idea how to be profitable.
2. FORCE the big three to scrap their current auto line and retool and redesign for smaller, cost efficient vehicles. Gone are the SUV's and other over priced dinosaurs.
These fools got themselves into this mess and it is obvious that they still have no plan to be profitable.
1. Remove the UAW unions completely out of picture. In fact, just scrap the whole compensation package and restructure it along the same exact lines as our foreign competitors. If that means a BIG pay reduction for the auto line workers as well as the exec's then so be it. They are in NO POSITION to negotiate anything !! These clowns still don't get it and have no idea how to be profitable.
2. FORCE the big three to scrap their current auto line and retool and redesign for smaller, cost efficient vehicles. Gone are the SUV's and other over priced dinosaurs.
These fools got themselves into this mess and it is obvious that they still have no plan to be profitable.
Anonymous | 9:52 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Greed on both sides, union and management have all but destroyed the big three.
While they were whining over benefits and bonuses some car manufactures were
actually providing the public with what it wants. The market drives the economy
that drives the factory. Everyone seems to quit forgetting that free enterprise
is driven by capitalism, and we are a capitalist society.
I am a author, can the government bail me out to have a book published?
I am a author, can the government bail me out to have a book published?
why are US auto's garbage | 9:52 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Every US car I have bought has been garbage. I bought a 2002 Jeep and it was
horrible quality. My Ford isn't much better. My neighbors Chev truck is a
lemon. Every foreign car I have owned has been great (Nissan, Toyota, Subaru).
These foreign cars are simply better quality AND their companies are better run
at much lower labor costs. So please tell me how giving 35 billion to three
companies with totally broken business models is going to fix anything??? Maybe
a good start would be to clean house starting with the CEO's.
The Solution | 9:57 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Chapter 11 Bankruptcy is the only hope.
These companies can reorganize, and the bankruptcy court can nullify or reform contracts that the company cannot meet. This would allow the US companies to reduce or maybe eliminate the $2000 difference between the labor content of US and foreign automobiles. Other bad contracts or leases can be reformed.
Creditors who deal with Chapter 11 debtors are given preferred status to encourage them to deal with the bankrupt entity.
Before we started to think that government was the solution rather than the problem, companies like United Airlines reorganized and became competitive again.
A bailout is short term, and does not allow the market to work. The market is supposed to expose companies who are unwise and reward companies that are well run.
If the government has any role, it should be to guarantee warranties of these companies to give consumers confidence to buy these cars. I believe that Americans want to support their own industries if possible.
Get these fools from Congress out of the picture.
Aren't these the same Einsteins who interfered with the market and engineered the current financial panic by mandating loans to un-creditworthy borrowers?
These companies can reorganize, and the bankruptcy court can nullify or reform contracts that the company cannot meet. This would allow the US companies to reduce or maybe eliminate the $2000 difference between the labor content of US and foreign automobiles. Other bad contracts or leases can be reformed.
Creditors who deal with Chapter 11 debtors are given preferred status to encourage them to deal with the bankrupt entity.
Before we started to think that government was the solution rather than the problem, companies like United Airlines reorganized and became competitive again.
A bailout is short term, and does not allow the market to work. The market is supposed to expose companies who are unwise and reward companies that are well run.
If the government has any role, it should be to guarantee warranties of these companies to give consumers confidence to buy these cars. I believe that Americans want to support their own industries if possible.
Get these fools from Congress out of the picture.
Aren't these the same Einsteins who interfered with the market and engineered the current financial panic by mandating loans to un-creditworthy borrowers?
Parker | 10:20 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
I agree 100% with Linus. I believe that the only way for the Big 3 to make the
drastic changes that are needed, is to get them out from under the UAW, via
bankruptcy court order. The Big 3 can't/won't do it by themselves,
because they are too closely connected to the UAW.
I also agree with the comparison to Delta Airlines, which made impressive progress under bankruptcy protection. I realize that many jobs were lost, but they, and many more, would have been lost anyway.
I also agree with the comparison to Delta Airlines, which made impressive progress under bankruptcy protection. I realize that many jobs were lost, but they, and many more, would have been lost anyway.
Jerico | 10:35 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Why would the government loan money to a company when a bank won't loan
money to that same company? I understand (but don't like) the Wall street
bail out because no bank has 700 billion dollars, but 25 billion is available
from Warren Buffet alone. Indeed, Congress is the least qualified body to
evaluate the auto industries' viability. Let the free market take its
course.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 11:42 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008
WHO THE HECK CARES?, let the Big Three UNION carmakers that might or might not
greatly worsen the nation's recession and perhaps toss us into a Deoression
and undermine the companies' ability to survive, here's what the
liberal's really need to be working on in the 110th Congress along with all
the Republican's anyway. Perhaps it's time the US brought-back The
Draft, if for anything else, to clean up our US gene genetic pool of these
liberal's and their breeding the species of more, take THEM all off the
minority Endangered Species Act they created, because they need to be sorted out
a little more carefully, as the "save the planet subspecies"
reintroducing themself, generation after generation, through Biological
Diversity, compromising our species' of normal people, with their genetic
liberal failure's lie's and socialism. Let's get rid of all
Union's and also liberal's this way.
DR Don | 12:58 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
"As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the
"Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and
Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers
anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets. In the real world, these
jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet
Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26
an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost
per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.
But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay. The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." These aren't jobs. And they certainly aren't being "lost" to China.
"We just go in (to Ford's Michigan Truck Plant) and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," The News quoted one UAW worker as saying. "Otherwise, I've just sat."
But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay. The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." These aren't jobs. And they certainly aren't being "lost" to China.
"We just go in (to Ford's Michigan Truck Plant) and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," The News quoted one UAW worker as saying. "Otherwise, I've just sat."
Bro Chuck's Rant n Rave | 1:25 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R.-Tex.) has proposed a very important tax-cut alternative
to the Pelosi-Paulson big-government bailout plan. Give the people a 2 month tax
free federal plan of no federal taxes to anywhere on payroll to product's
etc., for us for 2 months.
Where the Pelosi-Paulson plan takes the taxpayers' money and puts it under the government�s thumb so that predatory politicians and micromanaging bureaucrats have more and more control over the American economy, Congressman Gohmert�s plan puts the money back into the pockets of the American people and allows them to choose.
In the Pelosi-Obama model, Washington politicians and Washington bureaucrats decide which auto companies to save and with how much money in huge taxpayer-funded checks (bringing with them politician oversight and bureaucratic micromanagement in a manner guaranteed to kill entrepreneurial innovation and market-oriented flexibility).
Where the Pelosi-Paulson plan takes the taxpayers' money and puts it under the government�s thumb so that predatory politicians and micromanaging bureaucrats have more and more control over the American economy, Congressman Gohmert�s plan puts the money back into the pockets of the American people and allows them to choose.
In the Pelosi-Obama model, Washington politicians and Washington bureaucrats decide which auto companies to save and with how much money in huge taxpayer-funded checks (bringing with them politician oversight and bureaucratic micromanagement in a manner guaranteed to kill entrepreneurial innovation and market-oriented flexibility).
Interesting | 1:28 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
I have bought my last Big 3 Junker. My last 7 vehicles have all been assembled
in USA with funny sounding names like Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Mazda
and Hyundai. None of them gave me any service problems which is more then I can
say about my Buick's, Fords, Chevy's, Pontiac, Dodges, and
Plymouth's.
awsomeron | 2:30 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
I do not like Reid, but I do not want to see an auto bail out. So we agree on
this but most likely for different reasons.
Tomorrow if we are lucky or unlucky I am not at all sure which we may get a High Court Ruling that will blow our minds. Then again we may not and a large part of me does not want to upset the Status quoe.
However the Law is the Law and part of me hoping we win out.
If that happens all this will not matter.
I do not think Wall Street should be Bailed Out and I do not think the Automakers should be either.
Tomorrow if we are lucky or unlucky I am not at all sure which we may get a High Court Ruling that will blow our minds. Then again we may not and a large part of me does not want to upset the Status quoe.
However the Law is the Law and part of me hoping we win out.
If that happens all this will not matter.
I do not think Wall Street should be Bailed Out and I do not think the Automakers should be either.
Brother Chuck does weed... | 2:33 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
I read it twice and still have no idea what you are blabbering about. Nice use
of two periods in that literary train wreck.
The best bail out for Detroit is Chapter 11.
If you reward bad behavior (a shoddy, over-priced product) all you get is more bad behavior (hey, but let's keep making those over-priced gas-guzzlers).
The best bail out for Detroit is Chapter 11.
If you reward bad behavior (a shoddy, over-priced product) all you get is more bad behavior (hey, but let's keep making those over-priced gas-guzzlers).
Re: 2:33 p.m. | 3:26 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
A real leader would use this economy to explain how free markets work, and tell
Americans, It's up to you. We'll get out of your way. Obama has got to
stop the stuttering when he speaks or it's going to drive me nuts.
Capitalism, free markets, individual liberty these are concepts that set people
free, and the great leaders in American history are the people who talked about
setting other people free: George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Reagan. Of
course, we hear none of this from the Obama team. Quite the contrary. Obama says
we need to rebuild this economy from the bottom up, right? Well, if that's
the case, then why doesn't he bring out some newly unemployed people and
tell us how it is that they are going to cause an economic recovery?.
Obama's out there saying the corporate CEOs need to park their corporate
jets, and they need to stop taking bonuses because there are too many people
hurting out there. They just have to stop taking their bonuses because they
gotta find what it's like out there. It's just not good when these
people that have tens of millions dollars already.
Bro Chuck is 100% right | 3:38 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Re: 2:33 p. m.
WE ALL KNOW if Obama rewards bad behavior (a shoddy, over-priced product) all you get is more bad behavior (hey, but let's keep making those over-priced gas-guzzlers through his deregulation hey?).
If FDR can do it, (soon we'll all be going into the big depression because what the Union's and Liberal's caused,) than so to can the Republican's, ok?. Perhaps it's time the US brought-back The Draft, if for anything else, to clean up our US gene genetic pool of these liberal's and their breeding the species of more, take THEM all off the minority Endangered Species Act they created, because they need to be sorted out a little more carefully, as the "save the planet subspecies" reintroducing themself, generation after generation, through Biological Diversity, compromising our species' of normal people, with their genetic liberal failure's lie's and socialism. Let's get rid of all Union's and also liberal's this way.
WE ALL KNOW if Obama rewards bad behavior (a shoddy, over-priced product) all you get is more bad behavior (hey, but let's keep making those over-priced gas-guzzlers through his deregulation hey?).
If FDR can do it, (soon we'll all be going into the big depression because what the Union's and Liberal's caused,) than so to can the Republican's, ok?. Perhaps it's time the US brought-back The Draft, if for anything else, to clean up our US gene genetic pool of these liberal's and their breeding the species of more, take THEM all off the minority Endangered Species Act they created, because they need to be sorted out a little more carefully, as the "save the planet subspecies" reintroducing themself, generation after generation, through Biological Diversity, compromising our species' of normal people, with their genetic liberal failure's lie's and socialism. Let's get rid of all Union's and also liberal's this way.
Jim III | 3:51 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
I live just outside Flint, MI. I have reading and watching local newspapers and
television stations carry on about the bailout. My dad has been retired from GM
for about 20 years now.
Him and I have talked about this a couple of times. He is of the opinion that the autoworker is definitely overpaid at this time. He, along with some other retirees also feel that the executives are way over paid. Bailout or bankruptcy? Both will be bad for the economy. Under a bailout the executives will finagle some sort of bonus check for themselves. If they file bankruptcy, the executives will also get a generous bonus check.
Think it cannot happen?
Delphi filed for bankruptcy. The executives went crying to the bankruptcy judge about needing their yearly bonuses, or they would jump ship and go work for someone else. What happened? The soft headed judge granted them some 24 million dollars in bonuses. Some auto parts suppliers got stiffed for the money that they were owed.
Any way the deal goes down, there must be a provision that the executives do not get any type of bonus or golden parachute.
Him and I have talked about this a couple of times. He is of the opinion that the autoworker is definitely overpaid at this time. He, along with some other retirees also feel that the executives are way over paid. Bailout or bankruptcy? Both will be bad for the economy. Under a bailout the executives will finagle some sort of bonus check for themselves. If they file bankruptcy, the executives will also get a generous bonus check.
Think it cannot happen?
Delphi filed for bankruptcy. The executives went crying to the bankruptcy judge about needing their yearly bonuses, or they would jump ship and go work for someone else. What happened? The soft headed judge granted them some 24 million dollars in bonuses. Some auto parts suppliers got stiffed for the money that they were owed.
Any way the deal goes down, there must be a provision that the executives do not get any type of bonus or golden parachute.
Jim III | 4:04 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
About those people who complain about the quality or lack of quality in the Big
3 made automobiles.
BOTH THE FOREIGN AUTOMAKERS AND THE BIG 3 AUTOMAKERS HAVE MADE BAD CARS.
The trouble is the foreign car makers have been given a free pass by the press.
I have driven cars made by GM, Ford and AMC.
I had a 1987 S-10 pickup and I put over 550,000 miles on it. I am now driving a 1993 Astro van with 292,000 on it. It is still going strong.
The AMC lasted pretty good also. I drove a Pinto also. Both the AMC and the Pinto were bought used and lasted for a few years.
I remember when GM would announce a recall of about 100,000 cars or so and it would be on the front page of the local paper. One of the foreign car makers announced a recall of about 150,000 cars and it was buried in section 3, in small type.
I do not remember which foreign automaker it was.
If you to find fault with something you will find fault with it. If you seek good for something you will find it.
BOTH THE FOREIGN AUTOMAKERS AND THE BIG 3 AUTOMAKERS HAVE MADE BAD CARS.
The trouble is the foreign car makers have been given a free pass by the press.
I have driven cars made by GM, Ford and AMC.
I had a 1987 S-10 pickup and I put over 550,000 miles on it. I am now driving a 1993 Astro van with 292,000 on it. It is still going strong.
The AMC lasted pretty good also. I drove a Pinto also. Both the AMC and the Pinto were bought used and lasted for a few years.
I remember when GM would announce a recall of about 100,000 cars or so and it would be on the front page of the local paper. One of the foreign car makers announced a recall of about 150,000 cars and it was buried in section 3, in small type.
I do not remember which foreign automaker it was.
If you to find fault with something you will find fault with it. If you seek good for something you will find it.
Re: 3:61 p. m. | 4:16 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Why worry about the BIG 3, I don't think Star Buck's or Wal Mart is
going bust yet, because The Most Elaborate Olympic Games in History!
A total of an estimated $42 billion were spent on the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, making it the most expensive games ever. China pulled out all the stops for their moment on the world stage. Never before has the world witnessed such intricate preparations for the Olympic Games.
There's money out there. Don't let the Union's grab it all, and fire the Unions to.
A total of an estimated $42 billion were spent on the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, making it the most expensive games ever. China pulled out all the stops for their moment on the world stage. Never before has the world witnessed such intricate preparations for the Olympic Games.
There's money out there. Don't let the Union's grab it all, and fire the Unions to.
Brother Chuck IS weed | 4:20 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
As the vein bulges out on his forehead, steam hissing out his ears, Mr.
Schroeder summarily dismisses any arguement that doesn't include purging
the country of Democrats.
Does Florida not have sufficient outlets for your vitrol, that you find it necessary to stir up the readers in Utah?
Chuck, find another media outlet to refine your cut and paste skills.
Murray Dad
Does Florida not have sufficient outlets for your vitrol, that you find it necessary to stir up the readers in Utah?
Chuck, find another media outlet to refine your cut and paste skills.
Murray Dad
washcomom | 4:31 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Linus - I'm with you. Let them file bankruptcy and have the Bankruptcy
judges oversee the revisions to the companies. The big Union moochers can't
do anything about that. It's about time to clean out the cobwebs and sticky
fingers.
Remember back in the late 80's, the automakers were asked to build more efficient cars? Never really saw a huge improvement there. Just 'BIGGER, STRONGER...' more of the same stuff. How many big cars does a family need???
Chrysler should look at their minivans and make improvements on that. That's a family's workhorse. Can't modifications happen to make it electric, like the Prius?
Remember back in the late 80's, the automakers were asked to build more efficient cars? Never really saw a huge improvement there. Just 'BIGGER, STRONGER...' more of the same stuff. How many big cars does a family need???
Chrysler should look at their minivans and make improvements on that. That's a family's workhorse. Can't modifications happen to make it electric, like the Prius?
Justin | 4:33 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
If the Big 3 get the $34 billion, do the CEOs who brokered the deal get a
finders fee/commission?
Ing | 4:38 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
If Obama's stuttering drives you nuts, how have you survived the Bush
presidency?
No need to reinstate the military draft, Brother Chuck; if it'll get me away from incoherent nut logs like you and your imitators, I'll volunteer. (I hope you weren't serious...but I think you were. That's sad.)
Unfortunately, having rushed in with billions of dollars in handouts for the profiteering morons who turned the finance sector into a giant fireball, it's going to be hard for the government to say no to the latest lot of profligate corporate/union sad-sacks. (I'm not doing so well myself, financially; can I get a bailout too?)
I think what needs to happen is a complete restructuring. Something along the lines of a bankruptcy, but with the feds insuring pension plans and temporarily taking on health care payments for retirees. A lot of workers are going to lose their jobs, so the government needs to step in with retraining and education; something like the old GI Bill, only it'd be the GM Bill.
I'm worried about two things: one, too many hardworking people losing jobs, healthcare, and retirement; two, a cascade effect if the whole industry goes under. Both would be very bad.
No need to reinstate the military draft, Brother Chuck; if it'll get me away from incoherent nut logs like you and your imitators, I'll volunteer. (I hope you weren't serious...but I think you were. That's sad.)
Unfortunately, having rushed in with billions of dollars in handouts for the profiteering morons who turned the finance sector into a giant fireball, it's going to be hard for the government to say no to the latest lot of profligate corporate/union sad-sacks. (I'm not doing so well myself, financially; can I get a bailout too?)
I think what needs to happen is a complete restructuring. Something along the lines of a bankruptcy, but with the feds insuring pension plans and temporarily taking on health care payments for retirees. A lot of workers are going to lose their jobs, so the government needs to step in with retraining and education; something like the old GI Bill, only it'd be the GM Bill.
I'm worried about two things: one, too many hardworking people losing jobs, healthcare, and retirement; two, a cascade effect if the whole industry goes under. Both would be very bad.
Re: 4:38 p. m. | 5:06 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Perhaps you need some Cooling Therapy for Cardiac Arrest, before you anti-Christ
liberal's have one hey?. When you say "Unfortunately, having rushed in
with billions of dollars in handouts for the profiteering mormons who turned the
finance sector into a giant fireball, it's going to be hard for the
government to say no to the latest lot of profligate corporate/union sad-sacks.
(I'm not doing so well myself, financially; can I get a bailout
too?)." LOL.
Yes. Obama's stuttering and yours to drives me nuts.
Yes. Obama's stuttering and yours to drives me nuts.
Will Reid ever get it??? | 5:43 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
What would give Reid the best reality check?
1) Throw money at the big 3. Give them the biggest handout possible (Like Reid wants).
--This would only further problems of a debt-ridden federal government (A debtor without money to give just goes further into debt).
--It would also do nothing to change what got the big three into trouble in the first place: making bad quality, high gas mileage cars and then overpaying bad workers. The big 3 could change these things before they get bailout money, but they haven't; so what makes us think throwing money at them will change the real problem--their behavior and practices.
OR
2) Point the big three toward better business practices, w/o giving money. Let one fail. Then let the other two compete for a contract toward better environmental cars.
--This would allow the other two companies to compete for now higher demand, while lowering an oversaturated production (supply) of bad American cars. It would also cause America to reevaluate what makes them successful, and then work harder and better to compete with the world.
Reid means to use our fish well. But welfare is more than giving a fish; its teaching to fish.
1) Throw money at the big 3. Give them the biggest handout possible (Like Reid wants).
--This would only further problems of a debt-ridden federal government (A debtor without money to give just goes further into debt).
--It would also do nothing to change what got the big three into trouble in the first place: making bad quality, high gas mileage cars and then overpaying bad workers. The big 3 could change these things before they get bailout money, but they haven't; so what makes us think throwing money at them will change the real problem--their behavior and practices.
OR
2) Point the big three toward better business practices, w/o giving money. Let one fail. Then let the other two compete for a contract toward better environmental cars.
--This would allow the other two companies to compete for now higher demand, while lowering an oversaturated production (supply) of bad American cars. It would also cause America to reevaluate what makes them successful, and then work harder and better to compete with the world.
Reid means to use our fish well. But welfare is more than giving a fish; its teaching to fish.
Max | 6:21 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
Let them collapse and sell what is left to Toyota (not that they would want much
of it). It will hurt in the short run but is the best thing long term.
American innovation will create new car companies based on green technologies
for the next millenium. In fact, there are a bunch of them already sprouting
up in Silicon Valley.
The big 3 are a lost cause. Let the dino's die.
The big 3 are a lost cause. Let the dino's die.
Better life | 11:06 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008
So, making working americans that make a wage sufficient to really live in
America 2008 is bad? Seems to me we need support all such current jobs, and
create more such jobs, not less. The problem is over supply from exploited
labor overseas unfairly competing in America's market. And, we gooble up
the cheap products foolishly thinking that somehow the economy can go on
forever. The automaker's may be poorly run and have profligate overpaid
executives, but every American industry even agriculture faces the same fate.
And, so we watch the end of the empire, and many of us seem to cheer it on.
Like thinking "new green" cars will take the place of these bedrock
industries. Will not happen.
Don Mitrano | 10:54 a.m. Dec. 7, 2008
My coments are they should stop building names an just build a car 60% of
americans cant even afford to buy a car or truck because of the priceing who
needs a heated seat a telavision head phones rear cameras an what ever they can
put in them to bring up the price on americans. between a car truck an morgage a
person has to make 60,000.oo dollars just to keep there head above water they
dont no how to fix the problem they dont live in the real world long ago you
could buy low end an a cadilac as high end they better return to that or they
will fall just like rome ps iam in favor of not giveing them the money due that
an everyone will be on line thanks Don
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
Related content
- Ogden food bank gets big donation 3:29 p.m.
- Eureka mines could reopen 3:12 p.m.
- Obama to meet with Senate Dems 3:06 p.m.
- Stock rise to new 2009 highs 2:59 p.m.
- Helicopter search for climbers 2:57 p.m.
- Afghan troop surge will take longer 2:56 p.m.
- Dems against Dems in health care 2:55 p.m.
- Missing White House e-mails found 2:53 p.m.
- Shurtleff to meet Obama Tuesday 2:33 p.m.
- EPA proposes settlement in Utah case 2:21 p.m.
- Wet spot found in Powell's home
- Y. opponent nearly smelled roses
- D-Will treats military families to party
- Sources: Josh Powell hires attorney
- MWC looks better in basketball
- Maynor amazed by L.A. fans
- Pace happy not to be noticed
- High school football: All-region teams
- Jazz Extra: Starting 5
- Fun, easy gifts for the neighbors
- Palin signs books, chats with fans
178 - Nude bathers cited for lewdness151
- Gay-friendly curriculum phased out139
- LDS to emphasize helping needy123
- Jazz fall apart late at L.A.110
- Unga might enter NFL draft106
- BYU to wear royal blue uniforms99
- Disappearance called 'suspicious'95
- TV mom gives birth to 19th child95
- Choir, guests unwrap musical magic82
Can you tell I just got out of a budget meeting with Gov Gary Herbert?
Well, I did it. I gave in to the seductions of the ridiculously sexy...
Latest comments
Schedule 1 good team early in the season, as close to week 1 as possible....
We should give all our HOAX shots to Africa and see if it is really as...
Simpson Springs is 2.5 hours away from his house. That's 96 miles of road...
I used to respond to Utah's great bowl streak by pointing to the competition...
To "MormonDem | 1:56 p.m." I notice that you, like so many other kool-aid...
Laker fans are just like Dallas Cowboy and NY Yankee fans, they have no clue...
I hope, now that the Obama administration is correcting this injustice, that...
Bla bla bla...if you don't like this post system, then don't use it...bla bla...
please oh please oh please
Defendant Would,achieve site these sir victim enjoy among contribute like...
Advertisements