Deseret News | Reader comments: MormonTimes.com: Selecting image for Joseph Smith Papers volume was key decision

Reader comments
MormonTimes.com: Selecting image for Joseph Smith Papers volume was key decision

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Yup | 6:29 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Yup, I thought so. "Image" was "everything" in producing these "papers". In this case the physical image, but I'll bet the "image" was also number one in WHAT was included and WHAT was NOT included in the papers...

Cats | 7:49 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

TO YUP: Man, I feel sorry for you. It's really sad.

EVERY known document that Joseph ever produced, caused to be produced or that was relevant to his life is included in the Joseph Smith Papers. THERE IS NO EDITING. Every word is included. The volumes will include journals, sermons, revelations, legal documents, court records, banking records, business transactions, deeds, etc., etc. EVERYTHING IS INCLUDED. The documents come from many sources from within and without the Church. Many come from private sources as well as libraries and collections from all over the U.S.

The papers are primarily intended for scholars who desire to do research about Joseph and the early Church, but anyone who is interested can gain access to the materials.

There's always this idea out there among detractors that the Church is trying to hide something. Nothing is being hidden because THERE IS NOTHING TO HIDE.

roberto | 8:18 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

To Yup,
how would you like everything you wrote or said be brought out to see and gone through as closly as the writings of Joseph Smith. I wonder if it would stand up as well.
What do you think they are hiding. You'd rather believe some of the skeptics that have a bone to pick with the church. That makes a lot of sence. You sound like a miseralbe person.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 8:25 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

The Mormons give too much credit to this Jo Smith character, and not the Lord Jesus Christ; their Church, therefore, is not a Christian Church.

Re: YUP | 8:37 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

HOW DARE YOU WRITE your written "graffiti" about Joseph Smith, with an UNHALLOWED HAND.

The comment made by the writer of "YUP" tells more about himself than any snide remark made about the Prophet,Joseph Smith. His own ignorance should be embarrassing. They are saying something about which they know nothing and hasn't read nor sounds like any possibility to do either.

These papers are a treasure and YUP shows a lack of respect for all Latter-day Saints. I am offended by the reader/writer.

I look forward to reading these papers and appreciate the work gone into bringing it to the forefront. Dare I even mention the sacrifice that Joseph Smith and his family made in order to bring the Restored Gospel second only to Jesus Christ in his contribution?

I hope the disgruntled reader is familiar with the scripture of casting pearls. These pearls are too precious for just anyone. Go your way, IF the shoe fits.
I appreciate the comments and clarification made by "CATS." ==Nothing is being hidden==

Dutch | 8:44 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Watch out for trolls they will lead you to the dark side

Fight, fight fight!!!! | 8:47 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

GEEZ! here we go again.

Joseph Smith would feel so much admiration for all of you growlers out there, whoever you are? Growl, bite, hiss, snarl, gurgle or whatever? It will never change a thing. Have foaming at the mouth good day.

Christain mormon gal | 8:54 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

To anonymous: your comment is typical of those who have not idea what they are talking about in regards to the LDS church...you need to read the name of our church again...the Official name is "The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints"...the name says it all...I believe with my very core that Jesus Christ is my Lord, Savior and elder brother. I AM A CHRISTIAN, and no one, not even someone who is ignorant and arrogant in your comments, can convince me otherwise. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to my knowledge as FACT! Our church is very much a Christian church, and if you would get over your fear, and looked at it objectively, you could not deny it either. Sadly this is something you are more than likely not to do...What are you afraid of? Realizing the truth and that you are wrong in your assumptions about the church? You are evidently more secure and feel 'safe' in your false assumptions. How sad - I will pray for you - as a CHRISTIAN.

Mary | 8:59 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

I'm buying the Joseph Smith papers, and I will let you all know if I think anything is missing or removed. I have a talent for knowing many things.

kathyn | 9:18 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

This is what my husband requested for Christmas. I think this book will be fascinating. It is what it is...papers from Joseph Smith's every day life. There is absolutely no reason to buy this book unless you are truly interested in Joseph Smith. In fact, due to the price of the book, I doubt that many non-Mormons or scoffers will be buying it. I appreciate the hours of research put into this project.

Mary2 | 10:07 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

I'm with Mary. I'm going to read it and determine if anything is missing. I too have a talent for knowing these kinds of things without knowing much at all, really. And while I'm at it, I think I'm going to read the Bible and see if anything is missing there, cuz if there is...I tell ya...if there is ANYTHING missing from the Bible...I'm gunna...I'm gunna...I'm gunna do something, like...like...write the author and tell him I QUIT the Bible because it is missing something and that I am not going to read it anymore! Hmmmmm? I've got lots of talents.

Mary 3 | 10:49 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

There is much missing in the bible. Just like there is now missing in modern history. People can nitpick all that is written, and take out all the bad stuff, and reassemble things to their liking and satisfaction. It's Always been this way and always will be.

IF | 10:58 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

YOU JOSEPH SMITH HATERS HAD THE CHANCE TO VISIT WITH JOSEPH SMITH FOR JUST A FEW MINUTES, YOU WOULD REALIZE THAT HE HAS BECOME YOUR BEST FRIEND AND YOU HIS BEST FRIEND.

Sam | 11:29 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

It looks like there is a lot of mud slinging going on here, on both sides. You people ALL need to grow up and act like stable men and woman with a brain, and not like animals with pea brains.

I bought the book. I plan to read it.

Editing | 11:50 a.m. Dec. 4, 2008

I think it is great that these volumes are being published. I look forward to reading through them. However, I do believe that there will be editing involved. Every good book has some type of editing involved. Now, whether or not they edit out what may be considered controversial I do not know. I would hope not.

William | 12:10 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

We as members of the Church need to understand that those outside of the Church believe that Prophets, Seers and Revelators died at the birth of Jesus Christ. They also believe that the Church organized by Jesus Christ during his ministry has never been taken from the earth.

Many bash our beliefs because they fail to see the need for these men who have been on the earth since Adam was driven from the Garden of Eden. Many fail to understand why we do what we do. All I have to say is come to us, ask legitimate questions and bring the truths you have and we will add to these truths. Give us the chance we ourselves give to you. Many have asked questions pertaining to the church and have even been taught but never joined. Some have after many years pondered and ask the same questions and joined. Give us our chance but again it is the Holy Ghost that testifies of truth and nothing said here will change one person's mind.

Come join with us. Listen to our message with an open hear and a contrite spirit.

Too much hate | 12:18 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

It is sad to see people who hate everyone and everything. So sad to hate so much. I mean both LDS members, inactives and nonmembers alike...all the same.

Really... | 12:34 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Every known document? Really! Well, tell you what...I know of a few "documents" that you probably have never read....let's see if they are there.

I'm betting, the house and everything, they won't be there!

Oh, by the way, if everything I wrote were printed, it would be OK, nobody would care. Why? Because I did not make the claims Joseph Smith did. That's why what he said, and WHAT HE DID is so much of interest to all of us. I contend that most of you simply do not know as much as you should about JS and the church's history. These papers simply cannot put out the uncomfortable stuff. I know what I am talking about here, you don't. I don't say that to be smug, it is simply true.

Mixed up people | 12:45 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Re : William
It looks to me like everyone is bashing everyone else on these blogs. If people see things differently then the norm, then everyone starts the bashing game. I do not know what people on the outside of the church think or what they truly think about Joseph Smith? It's quite hard to distinguish on a blog what's truly in the hearts of the outsides and as well in the hearts of some of the members. We live in a very confused mixed up world.

Get It Right | 1:11 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

It is not a matter of "hate." It is a matter of facts.

JUST CURIOUS | 1:25 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

If i'm not mistaken photography was on the market before J.S.was born.There should have been many photos of smith and his family.therefore his physical likeness should be well known.why the mystery?

re: Really | 1:27 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

I spent years studying anti-Mormon literature so I doubt you know things I don't about Joseph Smith. The difference is, I have a different viewpoint of that information from you.

Yep | 1:31 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

See what I mean?

Ready when you are | 1:38 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Re: Really

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
"I know what I am talking about here, you don't. I don't say that to be smug, it is simply true."

Give me the uncomfortable truth. I've heard it all before. Go ahead and tell us what you think will be missing from these documents. I doubt you come up with one thing that I have never heard before.

Anonymous | 2:35 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

How about his arrest records for treasure hunting? Think they will also be included?

KM | 2:41 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

The bredth, width and scope of the entireity of Joseph Smiths work is astounding. The people he has helped come to personally know the Savior are multitudes.

The thing is, he links us to Christ; just as the ancient Prophets did for the people they had stewardship over.

Ellie | 2:43 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

None of you know as much as I do-PERIOD! I know more than any of you all put together and wound up into one single ball. I may be a know it all, but I do know most everything, So please, don't be saying that you know it all, because it's not possible true. There are very few of us out here who truly know everything there is to know, however, I happen to be one of these special people who knows. I know just about everything there is to know, or ever want to know about Joseph Smith. You folks would all be horribly jealous to know if you knew what I know-- SO THERE!

CatholicMan | 2:49 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

As we all know the Catholic Church has doctrines and practices that seem odd, even absurd, to non-Catholics. Do we hear about what we BELIEVE from non-Catholics? Of course. The same with the LDS Church. It is so easy to tell someone else what THEY believe but the only way to know is to be a member of that group. I could cherry pick LDS beliefs and say "that is absurd". You could pick a Catholic teaching and say the same thing. But I am not LDS, so why is it my place as a Catholic to tell you what you believe? I, for one, look forward to reading the "raw material" of Joseph Smith's writings. I will so so as an lover of history. I am strong enough in my Catholic Faith that reading this great body of work is not going to change my beliefs. Whatever happened to just reading as an intellectual observer? Leave the LDS people to believe "according to the dictates of their own conscience". And I will do the same. Stop with the vitrol !

Anonymous | 2:49 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

If you diverge from the official church history you are bashing the church. If you bring up anything Mormons are uncomfortable with you're anti-LDS. Why bother?

What might be missing? | 2:56 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

What might be missing in these papers? Hmm?...

Well, there were several letters written by Joseph to several of his plural wives with instructions to avoid coming by when Emma was around and also his marriage proposal to Nancy Ridgon in which he attempted to justify plural marriage and say that morality was flexible depending on circumstances. There might not be any mention of his wives who were already married to other men and how he proposed to them. Just a few things.

Dave | 3:00 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Some of you people who claim to read and study on here certainly don't come across to me as scholars of any scriptures. My guess is that some of you people are quite difficult people to live with in your personal lives. I'm certain though that your family members must suffer tremendously with you. Hopefully, Joseph Smith's papers and writings can help some of you who are extremely contentious know it alls.

bilbo | 3:01 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

enquiring minds really want to know..come on...you got it?

Adam | 3:24 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Because of the Book of Mormon, I went from a non-believer to a firm believer that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, who died for my sins. That book converted me to Jesus Christ. The man connected with the coming forth of that book was named Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. If he isn't a true prophet, Jesus isn't the Christ and there is no God because that book which he translated, let me to believe in the almighty and His Son, Jesus Christ.

Treasure Hunting? What??? | 3:25 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Treasure Hunting??? What??? I'd never heard of that before! Oh, now I have to up and leave the Church!

anti-LDS | 3:33 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Anonymous @ 2:49:

It's not that anyone who questions Church doctrine/practices/history is branded as an anti-Mormon or a "basher." It's just that MOST Of the questions people pose, especially in a forum like this, seem overly hostile/antagonistic. Many of us have conversation with non-LDS friends and acquaintances and, where mutual respect is the underlying norm, we can ask about one another's beliefs in a spirit of actual education.

Something that is VERY rare here!

Re: Anonymous @ 2:49 | 3:47 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

About "diverg[ing] from the official church history":

Sometimes there are opposing "histories" presented of a given event: one version presented by proponents of a certain view and a different version presented by opponents of that view.
Matthew 28:11-15 is a classic example of this happening in the New Testament.

So the question becomes: Which version is correct (if either)? Perhaps one is and the other is not; perhaps both are; perhaps neither is; perhaps both are, but some seeming contradiction is explained by some as-yet unknown fact.

I would venture to guess that, where it is impossible to determine which history is entirely accurate (since none of us were actually there), we base our opinions on a mix of history and other experience.

I don't fault non-Mormons for assuming Version A is the correct history; I just wish they wouldn't assume it's the ONLY possibility. And, even conceding some of the Version A points, I wish non-Mormons wouldn't assume that their conclusions are the only reasonable ones.

In the law, allowances are made where "reasonable minds may differ." In too much of our social discourse, these allowances are not made (by EITHER side).

Scott, Iowa | 3:55 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Scholars have always studied and debated any figure in Christianity from Jesus to modern religious figures. Why should Joseph Smith be any different, he did start a Church. Have any of the commenters here start a Church numbering in the millions? If so, we might think you have a worthy viewpoint for us to hear.

EX FLDS | 4:07 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Lets sweep POLYGAMY under the carpet so everyone can be deceived and happy.. the Mormon way, and Joseph Smith included! Although, Brigham Young was the worst when it came to polygamy back in those days BUT HE WAS THE LEADER so it makes sense. I really dislike his (BY) pictures and statues all around town. It reminds me of how awful polygamy is and once was, and the abuse of Mormon women. I dislike idols.

Doug S | 4:15 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Just Curious, I can think of two "photographs" that have been alleged to be JS, but one of them has lousy provenance and the other may not be a photograph at all.

A bona fide photo of JS may be out there in someone's cellar. But it hasn't surfaced yet. Joseph Smith's death mask may not be reliable either, because contemporary accounts claimed (and analysis of his remains, exhumed in the 1920s, confirm) that his facial bones were broken during his assassination--either in his fall from the window, or by being clubbed afterwards.

Anonymous | 4:36 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

"It's not that anyone who questions Church doctrine/practices/history is branded as an anti-Mormon or a "basher.""

"Some of you people who claim to read and study on here certainly don't come across to me as scholars of any scriptures. My guess is that some of you people are quite difficult people to live with in your personal lives. I'm certain though that your family members must suffer tremendously with you. Hopefully, Joseph Smith's papers and writings can help some of you who are extremely contentious know it alls."

If you never get a chance, discuss theology with a Jesuit and compare the level of discourse. I found the experience amazing. These people will talk about differing views within their theology no names are called.

Ned | 4:58 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Wouldn't it be sad to spend your life scaning the D News everyday, looking for something about the LDS Church that you could write in and be negative about?

Always wondered why so many can leave the Church but not leave it alone?

Or those who are obviously not satisfied with what they claim to have, so they have to try and demean the Church in an attempt to assuage their own guilt or lack of fulfillment.

Pitiful.....

RE Ned | 5:12 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Are you talking about yourself-- i was just wondering?

Always wondered why so many can leave the Church but not leave it alone? That phrase is getting way old.

-Janet

dcc | 5:20 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

It doesn't take much scanning Ned. There always something LDS getting crammed down my throat.

The Caravan moves on | 5:31 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

Another tired phrase........

Michaelitos | 5:45 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

@dcc 5:20pm
"Crammed down my throat" Really?

So your choice to go to Deseret News, your choice to click on a LDS-related headline, and your choice to click and then read the comments regarding that LDS-related article is "cramming things down your throat". . . . . hummmm. . . . . .

Apparently we have VERY different definitions of that phrase.

Judy | 5:46 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

OH, Ned & dcc

You poor picked on BIG babies! Good grief! like you 2 are the only ones in the world who feel things.

perhaps you 2 boys better go study your doctrine on JS a bit better. maybe you 2 have missed something in your learning. looks like it.

Re: Janet | 5:47 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

"Are you talking about yourself"
That phrase is getting way old, Janet. Can't YOU think of something original? (hypocrite)

-Allen

My take | 5:47 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

A few years ago as a full time missionary, I was assigned a new "green" missionary to train. We were teaching a "born again" Christian one evening we met through a referal. During our discussion, I related the first vision to her at which she replied, " I don't need your prophets and apostles because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ." My young companion, either inspired or wise beyond his years said, "That's wonderful, where did you learn about Jesus Christ?" She held up her Bible and said "from here, of course." My companion asked, "I love the Bible too, but Jesus never wrote one word in the Bible. Who wrote the Bible?" She thought for a moment and said, "Prophets and Apostles". My companion suggested to her that if not for Prophets and Apostles we would know nothing about Jesus Christ! Her response; "We really do depend on Prophets and Apostles, don't we"? Indeed we do! I love all Prophets and Apostles both ancient and modern! Remember folks, most people historically have always rejected modern prophets while clinging to dead ones!

re: dcc | 5:52 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

You clicked on this article...it wasn't crammed down your throat. Why on earth would you do that? Any place that you find a large population with a similar interest, you find articles in their local paper addressing those interests. Those who are not interested should not cry about it...they should simply avoid it. Don't click the mouse.

Peanut gallery | 6:39 p.m. Dec. 4, 2008

This is a funny blog. Did you guys all have a bad day or what? Deseret News must be laughing their heads off reading you guys. I sure have. It really makes my day well worth coming home too, and reading such silly comments.

GURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

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