Deseret News | Reader comments: MormonTimes.com: Suggestions for sportsmanship firesides

Reader comments
MormonTimes.com: Suggestions for sportsmanship firesides

arc | 6:05 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

It is real easy. The stake can not participate in region play. It isn't a requirement. Many leaders encourage stakes not to be involved in region play.

No participating in region play stops most of the problems, in stake, and eliminates out of stake problems.

oh? really? | 6:40 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Well what do you know? Poor sportsmanship, or would that be sore losers?

lfrankis | 8:17 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

To oh? Really? -- Grow up!

Comments continue below

It ain't just coaches and player | 8:20 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I actively participated in basketball officiating in our Stake. It wasn't the kids or the coaches, it was the parents. They would incite and bait and talk trash. I gave the sidelines a caution at halftime to let the kids play and enjoy the game, but no. I had one parent charge the court and challenge me to a fight, even though his daughters team was winning.

Everyone needs to understand that this is not the NBA and their kids aren't the next phenom....this is Church ball. Leaders need to understand that they are subject to the rules too. Oh, and folks, the referee is there because of the rules of the game, so when he/she makes a call it isn't by "persuasion and love unfeigned", it's the rules of the game......live with it. The Lord has NEVER allowed His children to live without rules, or make up your own, as some would like to do on the B-ball court. That's the reason behind organized sports, to teach obedience to the rules and fair play.

It takes real commitment to those ideals to make it work.

DennyG | 8:34 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I've officiated 100's of "church ball" basketballs games.
Poor sportsmanship is not only prevalent, it's pervasive all over the Church. It always has been.
Mormon Doctrine gets it into our heads that when we succeed, it's because we're being "blessed". When we (fail, lose, etc.), we're being "tried".
When you put that on a basketball floor the will to win is a fervor that is rivaled in few places in our adult world. We have enough trials at home and at work, losing on the court is more than many men can handle.
Officiating is the key to control of the tempers but better still how about this. Take the backboards out of the cultural halls along with the scoreboard. Problem solved. It is that simple.
My last Stake President was so difficult to play against I stopped playing so I could keep a positive attitude about him and his position because I liked the guy. Rip it off like a bandaid and get the basketball out of the gym. You never, or very seldom, see this kind of poor sportsmanship being talked about in softball or vollyball. It's basketball, the curse of the cultural hall.

Two thoughts: | 9:17 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Sports are always fun until parents show up to watch and somebody starts keeping score.

I once talked to a man who had refereed many college, high school, city/county rec, and church basketball games.
He said without a doubt church games were the worst.

Dave M | 10:06 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

We instituted a rule in our stake that greatly improved sportsmanship. Each team designated a captain who was the only person that could communicate with the ref. Any time a non-captian made a comment to the ref, he got a technical foul. 2 technicals and you were out of the game. It cut down the harrassement and the refs loved to ref again.

Good Start | 10:10 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I will admit that I am one who has acted shamefully in the past at church sporting events, especially when I was a coach of a young men's team. I'm glad that the refs of those games were largely friends of mine, and have since forgiven me. I later had the opportunity to ref games, and have seen the other side of it, both in terms of anger directed at refs for not making calls, and in terms of teams taunting the other team. I think it's great that there is an emphasis on this now.

If we could just get the same lesson across when it comes to cheering for your favorite football team. Likely the only thing more sad than getting bent out of shape about a church sporting event that you're participating in is getting bent out of shape about a game that you aren't a participant in, as if the success of your school's football team says ANYTHING about your value as a person.

Bob W | 11:02 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

It seems non-athletes have a real hard time understanding the difference between competition and sportsmanship.

The Church needs to decide what they are trying to accomplish. Is it an attempt at a fun ward/stake activity for ALL to participate or do they want a competitive league? The hybrid of the two the church has sanctioned in the past is what has created so much of the problems.

If it's a "fun" activity be prepared to deal with those who don't know the rules, yet complain anyway. Plus the continual hope enough players show up...

Yes, the competitive league isn't for all members, and it can be high spirited. Most generally respect is earned and handshakes feely given afterwards. BUT it's the only option where I've seen non-members participate, feel the spirit and then seek the gospel.

An athlete competes and when they are challenged, they'll get after it. A non-athlete has never been there and doesn't nor can they understand what it takes. A hard pick or slide into 2nd base is considered dirty and unsportsmanlike, yet in real competition the coach will set them on the bench if they don't perform those skills. That's reality.

What's the church want?

JJ | 11:15 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Its classic to see how heated church games get. They are just for fun and gives a bunch of out of shape guys the chance to play some "organized" ball. Hope people will chill out and have fun so we dont get this privilage of playing church basketball taken away.

Convert | 11:16 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Before I joined the church (30 years ago), I had been involved in intramural basketball. Since many of the games I loved to play were held on Sunday, I wondered how I would take it giving them up. I was told that the Church had basketball teams and I was welcomed with open arms. One of the first callings I held was that of YM basketball coach. My observation was that sportsmanship was a rare occurrence. Then, for one game the stake president officiated. It was the worst officiated game in the history of the sport, but the sportsmanship on the part of all made it a sacred event. I took it upon myself to become HS state certified and was asked to conduct a stake officials clinic at the beginning of the next season for all coaches and officials whose units wanted to play. I and some of the other brothers who were certified officiated most of the games that season and it went wonderfully. Our team won an area championship that year and came in second the next, but what I remember most was the turn around of the entire stake when the stake president officiated.

to: lfrankis | 11:18 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I have. And that's apparently the message from the top.

Played in church sports for years: volleyball, softball, basketball. We had a lot of fun and I never experienced blatant unsportsmanlike conduct until moving to Utah and participating here. I stopped participating, it wasn't worth being around the bad feelings.

I'm amused that you so easily prickle. I apologize for presenting an opportunity to ruffle your feathers.

Give it a rest | 11:36 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Church ball served a purpose....25 years ago. Now rec games and leagues can be found year around and church ball is just one more reason old high school jocks not to be at home with their wife and kids, let alone the home teaching. I wish the church would realize that mens basketball causes a 1000 ills for every 1 good. Keep it for the young men and women, make the men grow up. I am tired of hearing prominant men apologize for their actions the night before in sacarment meeting, or their wife justifing their husbands actions. The only good thing church ball does, is it shows us how very far we still need to go in treating each other with respect.

Bill | 1:06 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

A few years ago our Stake instituted where all adult games were played without a referree, without a scoreboard and all fouls were on the honor system. Do you realize the arguments stopped, the play became more civilized and to top it off, no one cared who won. That is what it should be like. Today we just play a youngmen and a youngwomen tournament. Someone from each ward playing is asked to be referee so since no one is a professional referree it goes over well. That has added to where many youngmen can play and have fun. The score means nothing except to pace the game. I'm pleased with the way it has gone and I can now see it being worked CHurch wide.

Anonymous | 1:22 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I want to advocate a couple of the suggestions, above:

1) "Give it a rest". Adult games are the worst sportsmanship abusers. Leave organized games to the YM/YW.

2) "Dave M's" rule in their stake is excellent. I wouldn't mind seeing that (Technical-foul) rule Church wide, and also have it extend to the crowd, as well: Crowd abusing the ref = technical-foul shot for the other team. Twice = spectator ejection...Problem solved.

Losing one's cool at a Church-sponsored activity is outrageous and unacceptable.

SLC gal | 1:52 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I once had the misfourtune of attending one of my husbands games where one of our high councilmen pushed my husband rather roughly, and for no apparent reason, into a rack of chairs. I was ready to wring that councilman's neck!! Not to mention the ref's for not kicking him out of the game!!!

Bob Newsome | 2:48 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

In Georgia, whenever we played against other LDS church teams there were usually hardfeelings, When we switched to playing other church teams that were closer in proximity, we displayed great sportsmanship. Go figure.

Anonymous | 3:32 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

I thought that was a great idea that Bill had. At BYU-Idaho they've instituted a few sports without referees that from my observation makes a world of difference. They also have sportsmanship firesides (althought that wouldn't solve all the problems, it would help) and a seperate sportsmanship scores given by the other team. If the sportsmanship score goes under a particular number they don't play. They also encourage team members to have "the spirit of the game" meaning that there is a spirits of competition but also comraderie with the opposing players. Players congratulate their opponents on good plays and everyone has a good experience. There as been a world of difference up there. It would be well for other teams to impliment that as well.

Ted | 3:49 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008

Ute fans?

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